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WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Fingolfin, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    Why do I have 5 oil refineries and 0 income? ... :C
     
  2. HeroSlayer

    HeroSlayer

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    Map is amazing so far, best of the map is the mass mover :D
    however, there are some things that can be improved:

    -Explosions dissipate too quickly, they should last longer
    -Projectiles. You are using wc3 ingame projectiles like the gyrocopter's bomb, remove them and place custom projectiles, cuz they definitely dont fit. the battleship projectile is good.
    -Battleships are too weak against structures
    -Battleships should have a skill or something to bombard like they always do in movies. they shouldnt fire structures pointing at them
    -You should do something to avoid model clipping between ships, every map has it, it looks horrible, and this map shouldnt have it as it is a great quality map.
    -The small bomber should have a "bomb terrain" ability in order to attack tanks or heavy units, its just an opinion, I dont know if it will mess with ingame balance

    These are just a few details to make an amazing map, the only bug I found was the planes stopping, but I know you are aware of that.
    If you like these suggestions, I can give you more on the next days :)
     
  3. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    I agree that battleships are impotently shitty against buildings, which makes no sense, because they are supposed to be long range siege units, and they are relatively short range with no dps, just lots of health.
     
  4. HOooDy

    HOooDy

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  5. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    Ok here's my response:

    @Everything about the projectiles: i totally agree. New projectiles will be fixed, although i will try to work on making them unique so that you don't always get that SC2 explosion (which is awesome though, but it could become repetative).

    @Battleships: i will look into this, but battleships are intended mainly as a sea superiority vessel and i don't want it to be too effective against structures as that could cause imbalance in places like small islands, where you could basically cover the entire ground decimating everything on it. In cases like Iwo Jima, battleships actually had minimal effects to the japanese fortifications as the shells weren't quite adapted to be used for that purpouse.

    @Bombard ability: that is what we used to have, but it turned out to be too much micro. It didn't look that epic, and it is also very complicated to make the turrets work in a way that allows them to spin independently of the ship.

    @Model clipping: Yeah, i hate that too, but the thing is that warcraft collision is spherical, which means that for the model to never clip, the sidewards collision has to be as wide as the length of the ship, which is very impractical since ships are so long and thin. What i have done is to compromize by giving them a colission radius that is about 2/3 of the ships length where you kinda balance the ammount of clipping with a practical sidewards collision.

    @Bomber: i am assuming that by small bomber you are refering to the dive bomber. They can already attack tanks and structures, but do so using the phoenix fire ability which selects targets randomly. I know that this can br frustrating whenever you want to focus down those pesky AA's, but it is a very lightweight solution which is also guaranteed to be bug free.

    Thank you for your opinions!

    EDIT: @xRiotZx: the reason for that is that battleships use armor piercing ammo, which has reduced damage to buildings. I will change "secondary" (anti-ground) attack to siege, so that it is more effective agaisnt land fortifications.
    And i dunno about the damage part, they kill off them destroyers pretty fast!
     
  6. CrimsonDeath

    CrimsonDeath

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    I think you should write in the description of all units how much oil they consume.
     
  7. Hugomath

    Hugomath

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    I'd say you guys should write some sort of FAQ or Help for Noobs in F9, where you would explain why they lose oil, how they get resources, the public grievance and that kind of shit. I know it sounds too much generic, but may be helpful.
     
  8. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    Any oil that there is in Africa was not tapped into at this point in time. There was oil in the Mid East yes, but even then, Britain got most of it's oil from the US. Back then, USA was like the leading supplier of oil in the world. The Middle East had just begun to develop their oil industry, and most of the oil in Africa had yet to be discovered or tapped into. Italy was just beginning preparations to tap into Libya's oil when war broke out.

    Well Britain should be able to win in Africa and play defensive in Europe so long as they maintain minimal forces in the Far East.

    Basically Britain can play offensive on 1 front and defensive on the 2 others, if we're being realistic here. By 1943/44 that should be 2 fronts, and by 1945, 3 fronts. All of that was facilitated by US aid and Commonwealth manpower of course.

    Sounds good.

    Battleships were the farthest thing from sea superiority weapons in WWII. That's what Japan thought and look where it got them. The carrier became the most important vessel in naval warfare during WWII. Carriers, cruisers and destroyers won the battles, not large cumbersome battleships. You'll also notice that it was actually destroyers that provided most of the NGFS during WWII, rather than battleships.

    Agreed, a costly luxury.

    Ikr, such a pain in the ass.
    With regard to the bombers. You should really have an He 111 rather than a Ju 88, the former being a heavy bomber, comparable to what the allies have, and the latter being a medium bomber.

    Battleships tended to have a hard time hitting fast moving destroyers. If they did, it was GG though.
     
  9. Vuormalainen

    Vuormalainen

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    The He 111 might of been called a heavy bomber by the luftwaffe, but generally as a medium bomber. The He 177 however, was a heavy bomber.

    Regardless, see our earlier posts about this, we did choose the Ju88 mainly because all european axis nations (in wif) used it - Finland, Germany, Italy.
     
  10. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    While this might be true, we need something valid to spar the fight in africa. Even if it wasn't the actual production of oil that drew nations, it was the potential of this. If i make Africa useless, then there will be no battle for Africa/afrika korps/desert rats/awesome alamein battles/etc. and Italys role in the entire game will be pretty useless (and although that would be realistic it would not be fun, lol!).



    Dunno about this, British fleet got their asses handed to them in the pacific pretty early, and Japan captured Hong Kong already in 1941. Most of africa save for the areas beyond el Alamein (along the eastern tip) were captured by the axis until commonwealth forces counterattacked from the west around the turning point of the war. Britain should have problem with prioritizing what colonies to save and which to keep, since keeping the whole cake will be very difficult (and innapropriate from a balance perspective).



    Yes, this is true, but i did not say that the carrier isn't the most valuable naval weapon in the game (it is), just that the battleships are the ships with the highest firepower and greatest bulk - because seriously, even though actual gun-to-gun engagements were rare in the later part of the pacific war, a round from a battleship would travel farther and be much more potent in ripping apart the hull of another ship than the tiny projectile of a destroyer.
    The reason destroyers would be more common in naval fire support is ofcourse, because they were more common in general, but that doesn't mean that they were as effective.
    In any case, you will still find that battleships have no AA support on their own, and that if built in too large excess, will only soak up your oil income. They are slow and cumbersome, and less suited for raiding merchant ships than the much swifter cruisers and destroyers. So in most ways, you still get your will through.


    The He111 was a medium bomber while the Ju88 was used for all kinds of purpouses (including heavy bomber). Also, as Vuorma said, it was used by almost all axis factions during the war, as opposed to the He, which was only used by germany.



    Destroyers have a very high DPS and are very effective as small support vessels in a fleet where battleships take the hits while destroyers kite and deal some extra damage (by "kite" i mean use their speed to run away when they are too damaged, since they cannot outrange any other vessels).
     
  11. CrimsonDeath

    CrimsonDeath

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    Hi guys.
    I was thinking that you should give the soviet union carriers or some other special unit because it is unfair that all the other nations can build virtually an unlimited amount of planes.

    Just a suggestion.
     
  12. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    By comparison yes, but the He 177 was produced in much smaller numbers.

    Fair enough.

    Well Italy's incentive was the Suez Canal, which would make East West communication very difficult, as well as the oil of the Middle East.

    That was what I say saying, Britain should only have the resources to be on the offensive on 1 front. In the African theater they kicked Italy's ass initially, and then were forced to divide their forces when Greece was invaded. Rommel capitalized on this when he launched his offensive in April. The rest of 1941 would be a stalemate at the Egyptian-Libyan border until Operation Crusader sent him back to the starting point. Again he caught the British off balance and pushed them all the way back to El Alamein, where a lack of supplies and the British material advantage beat him.

    Fair enough.

    By comparison to the allies both were mediums, but the He 111 was classified as a heavy, and did have a higher payload IIRC.
     
  13. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    Is that so? Vuorma tried to fool me that the Ju88 was the heavier bomber :(
     
  14. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    Lies. The Ju 88 was more of a tactical bomber while the He 111 was a medium-heavy bomber. The He 111 had a larger bomb payload and was thus the heavier of the two.
     
  15. akheny

    akheny

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    Played the beta,Really nice map.
    10/10 :thumbs_up:
     
  16. CrimsonDeath

    CrimsonDeath

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    Do you have some pics of the V2?
     
  17. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    Yeah, i will upload them first thing in the morning :)

    Sorry guys, but updates on WiF have been delayed due to the release of BF3 and Skyrim.
    Do i need to say more? ;)
     
  18. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    Skyrim ftw. :thumbs_up:
     
  19. CrimsonDeath

    CrimsonDeath

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    Me luves skyrim :goblin_yeah:
     
  20. CrimsonDeath

    CrimsonDeath

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    I began wondering if you guys still where alive?