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What happens after death?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by LordDz, Feb 1, 2009.

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  1. Elenai

    Elenai

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    ..I meant quite truly "He gave me a sink". Dessert is just a bonus.

    I need not dessert to eat my dinner...I would eat my dinner otherwise, dessert is something of a surprise at my house, not expected. I do however need to wash my hands before I eat...I can't stand the thought of eating with dirty hands.
     
  2. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    Okay, now this metaphor is really eating out of its own ass. You can't stand the thought of helping people with...what, now?
     
  3. Elenai

    Elenai

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    I think I may have misworded something somewhere along the line...

    "Religion does not equal morality"

    On this we agree.

    Morality = Doing good deeds, and such. (in general)

    Religion to me = Washing my hands before I eat.

    Morality to me = Like you said: Eating a satisfying meal.

    Heaven = a dessert, which at my house we don't expect dessert, it is a bonus that we are surprised with.

    I would eat my meal, even without dessert. I would do good deeds, even without the incentive of Heaven.

    However, I would not eat my meal (do good deeds) without first washing my hands. Because then I would taste the dirt, with my meal. (I would have a corrupted reason to do good deeds, and my reasoning would not be pure).

    This was a literal statement, to show where I was coming from, IE: connecting what occurs in my real life, to what I was saying prior to that.

    I can't stand eating with dirty hands: I therefore, would not want to enjoy a good deed, with corrupt motives.

    Did I explain it better this time?
     
  4. CMarket

    CMarket

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    If god is all mighty than he knew they would fall, as he knows everything that will be, and thusly having not changed that he didn't stop the creating of this deformities even though he knew they would happen.


    Do gnats worship us? Do you have a small church in your backyard that gnats built to worship you and light candles for the dead gnats? No. We have a mind, we have free will, "given by god".

    Oh, come on. At least try to give a plausible explanation. I'm not here to beat down religion, I am here to find somebody that can prove me wrong because I want to believe. Things like this only make me see more and more that that won't happen :(

    Same as above. The resurrection was definitely not anything medical. And if it was that would just prove more to the point that Jesus might have been a fake.

    This is another example that's lacking in many aspects. Of course it's possible to be outside of a building and exist, but is it possible to be above time and exist?

    From aliens? From Allah? From god? From Lucifer? From Zeus? From Buda? From Joseph Smith? From a highly complex series of chemical reactions that can only occur in the void?


    What is the body but a machine made of organic material...fix the machine, put the pilot back in (soul) and there you go...I LIVE AGAINZORZ!!



    Yeah, except worms don't have a mind. You can't compare a being that acts like a robot on instinct to a human. You can't compare because other creatures on this planet primarily act on instinct while the human acts as he wishes.

    Yeah, I'm sure you would say god and Jesus Christ, a Muslim would say Mohamed and Allah while some African tribesmen will think that the crocodile is the all might prophet. Once again I'm not trying to beat down religion, but if there are so many of them and if only one of them is true it's pretty much based on where you're born and what the people in your surroundings believe.

    You speak of it as if you've been there. For all you know hell might be a green swamp, a boiling pot of yellow water or nothing at all. Your rationalization of hell is somewhat logical, but it might be completely wrong, especially if it's Lucifer's domain.


    Just think for a minute about this statement. If he can lift it in another way that means that he can't create a rock that is too heavy for him which means he isn't all mighty.

    Once again, please don't let my comments offend you. I don't want to bash religion, I just want to see an explanation that's at least remotely plausible.

    Oh, and a note to the "doing good deeds" comments. You do them for selfish reasons, because it makes you feel good at the very least. You do something completely self-sacrificing and then you can look yourself in the mirror and say "I helped someone today". It makes you feel good.
    I'm not saying I don't do good deeds. I do them a lot, but that's because I like helping people.
     
  5. Hakeem

    Hakeem

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    There are no chemicals in the void, and where did this void come from anyway?
    An apt analogy to an omniscient mind. The point of the analogy was that there are things beyond mortal comprehension.
    That would be the conclusion, not the evidence.
    If truth is relative, it isn't truth.
    Omnipotence includes the ability to remove your omnipotence.
    As opposed to being self-destructive?
    And if I don't look myself in the mirror?
     
  6. Aschy

    Aschy

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    I'm curious if it is possible to believe in Life after Death if you do not believe in some kind of God's or w/e, I'm just saying things always happen for a reason and this is a good example you can't save things to a computer with no hard drive.

    Who the fuck remembers what your soul is or what your memories are or any of that shit your personality, your physical features, your sins, your charity, etc? Like is it even possible to pull information of someone from absolutely nothing say if we had a machine that could resurrect people? Wouldn't that mean that even people that didn't exist would have the possibility of being risen to life? Because who the shit would makes sure that a Life after Death system goes down, mother nature?
     
  7. CMarket

    CMarket

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    That's exactly what I said. I said that most people believe in stuff their parents, friends, surrounding people believe, be it Islam, Christianity, Mormonism and so on. The point is, if there is only one truth, one god, one correct religion, that means that most of the world's population will be wrong in their beliefs simply by being born in the wrong part of the world.

    Now please don't try to make a comment based on semantics as you usually do as it is going nowhere fast and I am being far more skeptic about finding an answer here. I said if there is only one god and one right religion, not if there are more.
     
  8. Killer_Mushroom

    Killer_Mushroom

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    After death you get reincarnated as an earthworm or galaxy or something or else you go to some place made of marshmallows.
     
  9. Elenai

    Elenai

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    Of course he did, and he gave them the choice to do so, and already had a plan to make things ten times better than before.

    He made lemon meringue pie out of the lemons.

    We are still gnats compared to God, and the hypothetical personification of gnats comparison that I made still stands.

    I did...It shouldn't be too difficult for God to perhaps defy gravity, or make himself weightless, or make a body weightless.

    However, it is not a matter of proving someone wrong to make them believe, you believe because you want to.

    If you want to believe...then believe, it is as simple as that. There is nothing wrong with believing in something like God, and if we are wrong, so what? We had a good run and did good things along the way.

    Believe, it is your choice to make, not mine. :)

    "To be, or not to be...Why should that be a question? Just 'be'."

    I was again using a personification comparison. A worm looking up at the night sky, is like us looking up at God.

    I was thinking more along the lines of L Ron Hubbard, or Jose Miranda De Jesus, or that random druggy that says "I am Christ reincarnated!".

    For belief, it is a simple matter of looking at things and making a choice.

    I chose Christianity because it made the most sense. Sure, I had help from my environment, but when I was old enough (15) and looked at things around me I chose it in full, and without environmental pressure. I was prior to that, researching the other faiths, and other cultures. Christianity offered full redemption without any haggling with God. It was clean, simple, and free, with no strings attached, and no fear of failure in its promise. So..I chose it.

    My suggestions, 'give what you are seeking, an honest effort', that's all it takes usually.

    Hell is Lucifer's prison, not his domain. He is currently not 'in' Hell either, he is wandering about as a spirit of malice, offering the choice to be away from God, where as Christ offers the choice to be with him. Lucifer is however, fallen, and will use treacherous means to offer his choice, even attempt to force it. Thankfully he is not omnipotent, and therefore, limited.

    As for what Hell is like: I have not described 'what it looks like', only 'what it is'. :)

    But he can put himself in a form that cannot lift it. And then exit said form, and lift it.

    He is almighty, because he can do both.

    "I am in the form of a rabbit, I cannot lift this rock. But behold, I have exited this rabbit's body, and I am now a spirit, watch as I manipulate gravity to lift this rock."

    No offense taken. Sometimes the best plausible answer is the one you come up with yourself.

    Everyone likes doing good deeds, it is supposed to feel good. :)

    That however, is not the purpose of religion, or belief. Morality is built into everyone, whether or not it is buried or turned off. But the problem is, that we get dirty and grimy while we are doing said good deeds, or especially evil deeds.

    Religion is where you take a bath, get the grime off, and look presentable while you are doing good deeds.

    "Helping grandma pick up sticks in the yard is a good deed...but it wont shampoo your greasy hair."
     
  10. Japut3h

    Japut3h

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    But what if it was up to him to make a rock that he himself cannot lift, without changing forms?
     
  11. Elenai

    Elenai

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    I'm sure he could figure out how to 'not' do it somehow...that is what "omnipotence" is for.

    "I can't lift it...because I don't want to."
     
  12. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    Yes. Now answer this: Where is the corruption in my motives? Considering this is the very thing I've been arguing since I started using that metaphor, I'd really like to know. In fact, that was the very first thing I've stated. I do good things because they make me feel like a better person the same way eating good food makes me feel good. And you state I should wash my hands. Is there some kind of incentive more pure than doing good things for the sake of doing good things? Is there some little ninja lying in the back of my head that's the source of my feeling good for doing good things, and this ninja is actually having me do good things for another reason?

    EDIT:
    ...So that's all religion is to you? Giving a good first impression? Whew, I thought I was missing something big here.
     
  13. Elenai

    Elenai

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    As a way to keep my self not only presentable to God, and others...but also as a way to be clean, pure, and healthy....seems good to me...what seems to be the problem?

    Should it be anything else?

    Or

    Should I use it for what it is intended...

    On your part, I think you may have read a little bit too much into the general metaphor that I presented.

    I wasn't directing my statement at you personally. However:

    Would you rather eat a sandwich with clean hands...or dirty? If you are hungry you'll eat anyway...But...

    Shall I pass the soap?

    As for the incentive:

    Yes...there is a reason God wants 'purity' above simply 'being good'.

    He expects you to do good things. He wants you to be pure. He will only allow those who are pure into his presence. If I were covered in mud would your mom let me into your home? Why should God then allow someone caked with dirt into his house?...We who are all covered in muck.

    God will of course be happy with you doing good deeds. But you still need to be clean to walk in the front door.
     
  14. Hakeem

    Hakeem

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    It most certainly is. A soul could be a natural occurrence just like the rest of the universe.
    Then maybe they ought to have open minds and research these things, eh? (Or have internet access. :D)

    The way you had phrased it before could have been interpreted as, "If A, B, C, exist, Then A, B, C, are false."
     
  15. Aschy

    Aschy

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    Well this is true because I hope there isn't 2 causes for the earth ><. Aside from that if it is like you said in the quote I think he would make sure everyone is treated equally. I'm sure we would not have to show the "Almighty One" the Declaration of Independence.
     
  16. CMarket

    CMarket

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    You can't know what he expects. For all you know the correct religion is satanism :p

    P.S. The metaphors are getting annoying and confusing in some parts...
     
  17. Elenai

    Elenai

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    I do know what he expects, common sense dictates it.

    If we are humans, flawed, and etc, and we still expect good, but want purity, and were designed as such, then God being perfect should by reasonable conclusion 'expect good, and want purity' even more.

    If you prefer I could use the strict Latin terms that not even I would understand, and proceed to go the pharisee route...
     
  18. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    You're assuming:

    A) All humans share your definition of purity.
    B) A god would be perfect.

    Both of which are not certain (in fact, the first is entirely wrong).
     
  19. Elenai

    Elenai

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    Purity is, and always will be: Without blemish, or flaw, or pollutant.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/purity

    Any form of sin is a corruption, a blemish, a flaw. Humans are rife with it.

    If I created a universe, and was god over it, I would be perfect in said universe, by the sheer force of 'I am, what I say I am'.

    He is perfect, by his own definition of perfect, a definition he can make, if we assume correctly that he made that which is to be defined.

    Luckily God also enacts such qualities as mercy, and etc, while also being just.
     
  20. Aschy

    Aschy

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    I'm not sure if you wanted the definition of purity but Elenai gave it to you. But when your a infant your in a sense extremely "pure" and you do things to taint it yourself, your conscience will dictate this.

    Unless you break your conscience from a young age, which is entirely possible to.
     
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