What happens after death?

Hakeem · Mar 14, 2009

brad.dude03 said:
Or common knowledge. I know Muslim women, and I know how their society treats them.

Then the society is at fault, not the religion the members of the society claim to adhere to.

Gilles · Mar 14, 2009

PurplePoot said:
Yes it does; I was referring to the bible. Just because the bible says it is the word of god does not mean it is the word of god. As such, the bible is not evidence.

It may not be irrefutable evidence, but it is evidence nonetheless.

If it's evidence, it's too weak to matter, due to the fact that we can both agree that stories passed down are no reliable source of information.

Fair enough.

Physical reality does. No matter what you believe, you won't ressurrect if consciousness is simply a chemical process. No matter whether god is "subjectively true" to you, s/he/it cannot affect anything due to the fact that it is not objective and thus has no relation to the world as we know it.

Perhaps you're right. I might not be able to provide solid objective evidence. I suppose it's the same as love. Other than chemicals in the brain (which I don't consider proof), you can't really objectively prove the existence of love.

Although what about things like the creation of the universe. They say that if there was a big bang, and something was a little out of place, the universe would have collapsed (correct me if I'm wrong, you generally seem to know more about this). Couldn't that be considered objective evidence of something super natural that created everything?

PurplePoot · Mar 14, 2009

Gilles said:
Although what about things like the creation of the universe. They say that if there was a big bang, and something was a little out of place, the universe would have collapsed (correct me if I'm wrong, you generally seem to know more about this). Couldn't that be considered objective evidence of something super natural that created everything?

The creation and state of the overall universe is a really tricky field in general.

We can do nothing but make educated guesses (one of the major props of the Big Bang is that it appears that the universe is expanding, which also supports conservation of momentum).
We have no way of knowing how time relates to existence.
Many of the laws of physics fall apart in those conditions; for example, there has to be a point at which energy is not conserved. Also, thermodynamics tells us that (assuming the universe has always followed these laws) an infinite universe would have since collapsed due to entropy.
None of the creation stories (they are not really theories) are plausible. For example, the existence of god is a huge leap of faith (for reasons we all know), but the breaking of conservation of energy is as well. However, I would like to point out here that we are not really sure that energy is conserved in the same sense, as in many places "potential energy" values patch over holes from which energy would otherwise not be conserved.
However, we cannot know what happens in extreme conditions. For example, once entropy reigns supreme, perhaps such energy will reform into the universe once again; we don't know and can't really know. As such, this is one of those situations in which it's unlikely we'll ever explain well without being there.
The universe unquestionably was created by something super natural, for reasons listed above; the fundamental behaviour of the universe would have had to change at one point. However, that does not mean such a force was sentient.

Gilles · Mar 14, 2009

PurplePoot said:
[*]The universe unquestionably was created by something super natural, for reasons listed above; the fundamental behaviour of the universe would have had to change at one point. However, that does not mean such a force was sentient.[/list]

I would argue that the laws of nature point to a sentient being.

Here is one interesting article.
Proofs for God's existence

Pope John Paul II said:
In speaking of the existence of God we should underline that we are not speaking of proofs in the sense implied by the experimental sciences. Scientific proofs in the modern sense of the word are valid only for things perceptible to the senses since it is only on such things that scientific instruments of investigation can be used. To desire a scientific proof of God would be equivalent to lowering God to the level of the beings of our world, and we would therefore be mistaken methodologically in regard to what God is. Science must recognize its limits and its inabi]ity to reach the existence of God: it can neither affirm nor deny his existence.

PurplePoot · Mar 14, 2009

Gilles said:
I would argue that the laws of nature point to a sentient being.

Here is one interesting article.
Proofs for God's existence

Blah, that uses the standard (and refuted) arguments of old (numbers refer to numbers in the article).

Other religions believe in gods too.
This doesn't really have any relation to proof.
Everything comes from somewhere, but god is not excluded. The "where did god come from" cliché response works fine here.
Matter is a complete mess - it isn't really organized.
Some people believed that the world was supported on an infinite stack of ever-larger turtles. Does this mean that the world is indeed supported on such a stack?
There is lack thereof as well.
The lack of complete understanding does not mean we should take in blind faith.

Gilles · Mar 14, 2009

I don't have time to properly reply, it'll probably be a few days.

yakonshus · Mar 15, 2009

We need to be logical to this, but meaning this crossing those out who dosnt make sence.

1. Going straight to eternal suffering and pain. That sounds pretty awfull in my ears, and a eternity is still a very long time, so long no humans is able to understand that,

2. Going straight to eternal happines and cheers. That on the other side, sounds nice, but you could be bored of it when the first 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 millenias have passed. And to this some people think that the only thing you do in that time is to worship god and sing songs for him...

3. Getting reborn. What divine being is making us forget the thousands of lives we've had before? Is it a pool, pain or something else? And what will eventually happen when earth is no more, will your soul travel to another planet with live and then settle down there, or maybe it alredy have done that?

4. Becoming a part of something, meaning you become a part of god, another being, a rock or maybe something else? Does this then meen that we all have 643 different beings? Thats is really confusing.

5. Becoming a ghost, spirit or something like that. If this one is true, why are they then invisible, maybe because they only reflect one kind of light that the human eye is not able to see? But then we should be able to detect them in some way, some people say that they actually have seen ghost, i dont believe them.

6. Joining Elvis on mars and then live of the burgers made out of those cows sucked up by UFO's, sounds rather silly, but i couldnt resist posting it.

7. Absolutely nothing, sounds boring dosnt it? But on the other hand, you wouldnt be able to know it, because you aint there. I think thats really depressing, that it all end like that.

8. Entering your own wicked fantasy and imagine a new world, maybe this world we live in also imagined by one, and YOU created it all.

9. If our world really is a computer system(which some people think, and why shouldnt it?), then we might just retry our live or just return to DATA.

I have no idea of which one of these it could be, and there is certain thousands of other thoughts and theories to mention, but we will never find out untill the day is upon us.

dimasa3 · Mar 15, 2009

Ok. I believe in reincarnation. But what would it be like to first die and then not remembering it?

CMarket · Mar 15, 2009

Reincarnation makes the least sense. If reincarnation is all that is then how come the number of people is increasing instead of staying roughly the same? Furthermore if there is a place like heaven where souls wait for their body and there are unlimited supplies of souls there who decides which soul gets a body when and who decides if that soul will travel in another child next? Does that mean that newborns are soulless until a soul occupies them?

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

1. Going straight to eternal suffering and pain. That sounds pretty awfull in my ears, and a eternity is still a very long time, so long no humans is able to understand that,

It is only pain and suffering because people are there to make it so.

2. Going straight to eternal happines and cheers. That on the other side, sounds nice, but you could be bored of it when the first 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 millenias have passed. And to this some people think that the only thing you do in that time is to worship god and sing songs for him...

False: Heaven is a place of rest and is temporary, and it is still full of literally billions of things to do, worshiping God is but one of the many things. God would not let you be bored...and besides, there are all kinds of people there anyway to talk to and share the day with.

The "new creation" is the permanent afterlife, and it is going to be like our current world, except alot better. In the new creation you will essentially work, and labour, without the pain of it. Kinda like gardening without hurting your back, it is enjoyable work. And in this new creation you will be able to pain, sculpt, write music, do artistic things, take care of trees and animals, basically every worthwhile venture here on Earth, only expanded in its greatness. Heck, I'm sure you can even invent in the new creation. Video games anyone?

3. Getting reborn. What divine being is making us forget the thousands of lives we've had before? Is it a pool, pain or something else? And what will eventually happen when earth is no more, will your soul travel to another planet with live and then settle down there, or maybe it alredy have done that?

I think that is reincarnation, which is not a part of Judeo-Christian beliefs, I cannot answer for them, since I am not a part of any eastern faith.

4. Becoming a part of something, meaning you become a part of god, another being, a rock or maybe something else? Does this then meen that we all have 643 different beings? Thats is really confusing.

Being a part of God is not saying "zomg I am ur armz!", it is "I now understand your purposes, and you. I have a relationship of one'ness. I know who you are, and there is no barrier over my eyes to separate you."

5. Becoming a ghost, spirit or something like that. If this one is true, why are they then invisible, maybe because they only reflect one kind of light that the human eye is not able to see? But then we should be able to detect them in some way, some people say that they actually have seen ghost, i dont believe them.

If a spirit is energy, then often times you cannot see certain kinds of energy, unless it manifests in a certain way, or wraps itself in a certain form.

7. Absolutely nothing, sounds boring dosnt it? But on the other hand, you wouldnt be able to know it, because you aint there. I think thats really depressing, that it all end like that.

It does sound awful doesn't it?

8. Entering your own wicked fantasy and imagine a new world, maybe this world we live in also imagined by one, and YOU created it all.

Very few of us, could build our own self sufficient, and stable world. Eventually, our nightmares would plague our afterlife, and make it a Hell...

CMarket · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai said:
God would not let you be bored...

Eventually you would be bored. There's only so many times you can do something, even have sex, without it becoming dull. Besides, most things that make us interesting are mistakes and losing control, both of which are obsolete in heaven, right?

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

Eventually you would be bored. There's only so many times you can do something, even have sex, without it becoming dull. Besides, most things that make us interesting are mistakes and losing control, both of which are obsolete in heaven, right?

The New Creation is an entire universe which you can explore without limits...forever...and if the same physics apply there as here, then it will constantly be changing. Not much boredom you can get from exploring a whole universe, while it is changing, and evolving before your very eyes. By the time you explored every inch of one planet, a new creature emerged on a completely different one.

That's hardly boring

Pyritie · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai said:
The New Creation is an entire universe which you can explore without limits...forever...and if the same physics apply there as here, then it will constantly be changing. Not much boredom you can get from exploring a whole universe, while it is changing, and evolving before your very eyes. By the time you explored every inch of one planet, a new creature emerged on a completely different one.

That's hardly boring

Ironically, that sounds just like spore.

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

Ironically, that sounds just like spore.

The mashed up game that is spore, hardly compares to the real world however

PatruX · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233754233385.jpg

The fault of that is that Rome fell, not Christianity...Christianity is infact, the only thing that kept Roman law, and much of antiquity intact.

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233754512964.jpg

Creation ex Nihlo != Intelligent Design, or Old Earth Creationism, or Theistic Evolution.

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233755194172.jpg

"YOU CAN"T F*CKIN PROVE THERE IS A GOD GET OUTTA MAH F*CKIN FACE CHRISTIAN GOODY TWO SHOES FAGGOT CHRIST F*CKER!"

There are illogical nuts on both sides...just look a few pages back for a few of them..

EDIT: I'll answer for the rest, gotta go.

brad.dude03 · Mar 15, 2009

Also, Zeitgeist is the biggest load of shit I've seen since Loose Change.

Pyritie · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai said:
The fault of that is that Rome fell, not Christianity...Christianity is infact, the only thing that kept Roman law, and much of antiquity intact.

Actually, that picture is trying to say that the whole "enforcement" of christian beliefs and punishment for thinking against christianity is what kept science and technology from advancing during that big black area.

PatruX · Mar 15, 2009

brad.dude03 said:
Also, Zeitgeist is the biggest load of shit I've seen since Loose Change.

How do you explain the fact that Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra and Jesus, to name a few, have the same attributes (birthdate, resurrection, crucifixion etc.)?

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

Actually, that picture is trying to say that the whole "enforcement" of christian beliefs and punishment for thinking against christianity is what kept science and technology from advancing during that big black area.

And? People do that...it isn't the fault of religion. No more than it is the fault of Islam for 9-11.

I mean really...if you consider what actually happened during the dark ages...and look at how people tend to react in those situations...it is quite easy to explain, if not lengthy.

How do you explain the fact that Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra and Jesus, to name a few, have the same attributes (birthdate, resurrection, crucifixion etc.)?

For one..no one knows Christ's birthday (we just put it on a pagan solar festival)

Dionysus, Krisha, and Horus, etc to my knowledge, where never crucified. Or resurrected.

And as for the rest: Just as easily as everyone knows UFO's are in league with the NRA to stock pile guns in every redneck's hand so that they can take over the world as puppets for our masters in space, and the phrase "git-r-done" is actually Alien for "the plan is working", and Xenu is real! Scientology proved it when they gave me a personality test and revealed that I was infact, the lost Thetan of Charlemagne.

Conspiracy theories are fun...

And now for the rest of the images:

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233754829929.jpg

And also a sense of well being, encouragement to do what is right, and hope for the future, and alot of positive things. Also that sticker is an example of "trolling in real life".

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233754829929.jpg

That is an example of the other extreme 'yelling their head off'.

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233753892418.jpg

Atheists KNOW it happened by chance, most Christians believe that God guided it along and made it rather artistically. It is afterall, art.

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233754591080.jpg

Because scientists are ever so much more noble than we are...

Intelligence, amorality, and a phd, a good person does not make.

http://www.furyzone.com/jpg/1233754515797.jpg

And this is where I would like to quote:

Louis Pasteur - Discoverer of bacterium, which is a direct precursor to the discovery of DNA. A devout Christian.

"Science brings men closer to God"

Looks like you owe the entire birth of the field of micro-biology to a Jesus lover.

Christians are not ignorant my friend. No more ignorant that an atheist, or agnostic. There are idiots in every group.

Just look back at a few people Teh_Ephy has yelled at for reference.

Gausslander · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai, you are 100% off. Horus was definitely crucified, he was also born of a virgin mother, angels made both of their birth announcements, shepherds witnessed both of their births, both of their baptists were beheaded, they both quote: "walked on water, cast out demons, and healed the sick." There are several hundred more relations, and in my book that's enough to say that one is roughly based on the other, don't you think?
Oh, and they were both resurrected, and around the same time after they both died, three days.

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai, you are 100% off. Horus was definitely crucified, he was also born of a virgin mother, angels made both of their birth announcements, shepherds witnessed both of their births, both of their baptists were beheaded, they both quote: "walked on water, cast out demons, and healed the sick." There are several hundred more relations, and in my book that's enough to say that one is roughly based on the other, don't you think?
Oh, and they were both resurrected, and around the same time after they both died, three days.

And...what evidence do you have for this? Show me the hieroglyphic texts, and translations.

THE BIRTH OF HORUS, SON OF ISIS AND OSIRIS
From a stele on which the greater part of the text consists of a hymn to Osiris, which was probably composed under the 18th Dynasty. The last paragraph of the text contains an allusion to Isis, the sister and wife of Osiris, and mentions the legend of the birth of Horus, which even under the 18th Dynasty was very ancient.

The Pyramid Texts state that the body of Osiris was hurled to the ground by Set at a place called Netat, which seems to have been near Abydos (Pepi I., line 475; Pepi II., line 1263.) The news of the death of Osiris was brought to Isis, and she at once set out to find his body. All legends agree in saying that she took the form of a bird, and that she flew about unceasingly, going hither and thither, and uttering wailing cries of grief. At length she found the body, and with a piercing cry she alighted on the ground. The Pyramid Texts say that Nephthys was with her that "Isis came, Nephthys came, the one on the right side, the other on the left side, one in the form of a Hat bird, the other in the form of a Tchert bird, and they found Osiris thrown on the ground in Netat by his brother Set." The late form of the legend goes on to say that Isis fanned the body with her feathers, and produced air, and that at length she caused the inert members of Osiris to move, and drew from him his essence, wherefrom she produced her child Horus.

Pyramid Text, Teta, l. 276. - Thy sister Isis cometh to thee rejoicing in her love for thee. Thou hast union with her, thy seed entereth her. She conceiveth in the form of the star Septet (Sothis). Horus-Sept issueth from thee in the form of Horus, dweller in the star Septet. Thou makest a spirit to be in him in his name 'Spirit dwelling in the god Tchentru.' He avengeth thee in his name of 'Horus, the son who avenged his father.' Hail, Osiris, Keb hath brought to thee Horus, he hath avenged thee, he hath brought to thee the hearts of the gods, Horus hath given thee his Eye, thou hast taken possession of the Urert Crown thereby at the head of the gods. Horus hath presented to thee thy members, he hath collected them completely, there is no disorder in thee. Thoth hath seized thy enemy and hath slain him and those who were with him."
Source(s):
http://www.marysia.com/pagan/horus_myths...

...Horus was NOT born of a virgin at all. Indeed, one ancient Egyptian relief depicts this conception by showing his mother Isis in a falcon form, hovering over an erect phallus of a dead and prone Osiris in the Underworld (EOR, s.v. "Phallus"). And the Dec 25 issue is of no relevance to us--nowhere does the NT associate this date with Jesus' birth at all.

Indeed, the description of the conception of Horus will show exactly the sexual elements that characterize pagan 'miracle births', as noted by the scholars earlier:

"But after she [i.e., Isis] had brought it [i.e. Osiris' body] back to Egypt, Seth managed to get hold of Osiris's body again and cut it up into fourteen parts, which she scattered all over Egypt. Then Isis went out to search for Osiris a second time and buried each part where she found it (hence the many tombs of Osiris tht exist in Egypt). The only part that she did not find was the god's penis, for Seth had thrown it into the river, where it had been eaten by a fish; Isis therefore fashioned a substitute penis to put in its place. She had also had sexual intercourse with Osisis after his death, which resulted in the conception and birth of his posthumous son, Harpocrates, Horus-the-child. Osiris became king of the netherworld, and Horus proceeded to fight with Seth..." [CANE:2:1702; emphasis mine] [BTW, the Hebrew word 'satan' is not a 'cognate' of the name 'seth' by any means: "The root *STN is not evidenced in any of the cognate languages in texts that are prior to or contemporary with its occurrences in the Hebrew Bible" DDD, s.v. 1369f]

Once again Isis set out to look for the pieces and she was able to find and put together 12 of the 13 parts, but was unable to find the 13th, his penis, which was eaten by the oxyrhynchus fish (a fish with an unusual curved snout resembling depictions of Set). Instead, she fashioned a phallus out of gold and sang a song around Osiris until he came back to life.

Consequently, the story became that before resurrecting Osiris, Isis put together 12 of the 13 parts, but was unable to find the 13th, his penis, which was eaten by the oxyrhynchus fish (a fish with an unusual curved snout resembling depictions of Set). So Isis created a phallus for him, and then attempted to revive him. In some versions, Isis sang a song around Osiris until he came back to life. She then took the form of a kite and flew around his body in order to conceive Horus. In other tellings of the story, Isis grows wings and hovers over Osiris. She breathes life into him in order to revive him and conceive Horus. Being simultaneously alive and dead, Osiris became the god and king of the afterlife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_Osiris_and_Isis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Mythology < I see nothing about crucifixion...

And a Christian source: http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

And of course...While I do believe that every bit of the mythology I googled concerning this...coincidence, is probably completely made up, (since I certainly haven't come across anything in the Egyptian text to say he was crucified, or born of a virgin), here is a bone I threw you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln-Kennedy_coincidences

The Jesus/Horus thing..if it be true at all, has about as much authority as the link I showed above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh6EYbcBv5Y < ZOMG!!!!! Ra totally possessed a young child in Egyptian myth and outlawed reading and writing, that's why so many Egyptian ruins are literally covered with hieroglyphs. It must be true! Egyptian myth is cited, and Egyptian myth is NEVER used for movies, television series spanning several seasons, and is always taken seriously.

SAVE ME Jes-hor-US! We are totally screwed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN6nJMU7sws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpFvSSzyqOQ&feature=related

I bet this is a prophecy, Anubis is coming to Earth with a mighty fleet! After of course..torturing this Roswell resident.

Pyritie · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai said:
And? People do that...it isn't the fault of religion. No more than it is the fault of Islam for 9-11.

I mean really...if you consider what actually happened during the dark ages...and look at how people tend to react in those situations...it is quite easy to explain, if not lengthy.

Like I said, the "dark ages" were mostly caused (and sustained) by a rejection and banishment of any non-christian ideas and works, such as those of aristotle. It was not until the black death (and creation of the middle class) that people began to have more intellectual freedom.

And also a sense of well being, encouragement to do what is right, and hope for the future, and alot of positive things. Also that sticker is an example of "trolling in real life".

Hey, it's true though.

Atheists KNOW it happened by chance, most Christians believe that God guided it along and made it rather artistically. It is afterall, art.

Wrong. You can't just group athiests like that. Although most (if not all) of the more scientific ones do not believe it just happened by chance: it was created over hundreds of thousands of years by rivers, glaciers, and other geological and environmental factors.

Intelligence, amorality, and a phd, a good person does not make.

PhDs do tend to weed out the unintelligent people though.

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

Hey, it's true though.

Not really...

Wrong. You can't just group athiests like that. Although most (if not all) of the more scientific ones do not believe it just happened by chance: it was created over hundreds of thousands of years by rivers, glaciers, and other geological and environmental factors.

And not everyone Christian can be grouped with the wizard thing.

PhDs do tend to weed out the unintelligent people though.

Intelligence a good person does not make. (nor are they always right)

Like I said, the "dark ages" were mostly caused (and sustained) by a rejection and banishment of any non-christian ideas and works, such as those of aristotle. It was not until the black death (and creation of the middle class) that people began to have more intellectual freedom.

Even if that were entirely the case, the scale was hardly a series of leaps and bounds being held back by the priest hood.

PurplePoot · Mar 15, 2009

Elenai said:
Not really...

It's lulzy, and they didn't really make that stuff up.

Elenai said:
Even if that were entirely the case, the scale was hardly a series of leaps and bounds being held back by the priest hood.

It was everything being held back by the church.

Gausslander · Mar 15, 2009

Again, Elenai, I've heard my religious cousins come over and tell me all languages derive from Hebru, I consulted my brother who works at a law firm to look it up; it is disputed whether he was born from a virgin birth. He was most certainly crucified, where you get your texts are from places that would seek to plagiarize the book, as where we seek to enlighten it and point out the similarities. And that fish story does sound a little familiar, don't you think?

Elenai · Mar 15, 2009

Again, Elenai, I've heard my religious cousins come over and tell me all languages derive from Hebru,

...they are wrong...what does that have to do with Horus being Christ?

I consulted my brother who works at a law firm to look it up; it is disputed whether he was born from a virgin birth.

...what does it have to do with...

He was most certainly crucified,

Evidence please.

where you get your texts are from places that would seek to plagiarize the book, as where we seek to enlighten it and point out the similarities. And that fish story does sound a little familiar, don't you think?

Yeah...no...

Gausslander · Mar 16, 2009

Elenai said:
Evidence please.

In the Book of Horus, it states that he was crucified with two thieves (same as Jesus).
There is a massive list of parallels between the two.

Btw, Horus came to be 2,000 years earlier.

Elenai · Mar 16, 2009

In the Book of Horus, it states that he was crucified with two thieves (same as Jesus).
There is a massive list of parallels between the two.

Btw, Horus came to be 2,000 years earlier.

Show me the text. And also...show me the papyrus it was written on please. (a link will do, and a picture of the original/copy will do nicely)

Also, I don't believe it would say 'crucified' or translate as such. Since crucify, is a Latin derived word, and nailing to a cross is a Roman invention, Egyptians did not hang people on trees, since wood was expensive, and rare.

Gausslander · Mar 16, 2009

I hope you can translate Egyptian.

I'm traveling there this Summer I'll make sure to take some snap shots, as of now I can't find any shots of the wall in which it was written. But I'll search for it, none the less.

Hakeem · Mar 16, 2009

CMarket said:
If reincarnation is all that is then how come the number of people is increasing instead of staying roughly the same?

Maybe there are leftovers from the mass extinctions of the past. Maybe there are other planets with life and it is balanced. Maybe souls can be created.

CMarket said:
Furthermore if there is a place like heaven where souls wait for their body and there are unlimited supplies of souls there who decides which soul gets a body when and who decides if that soul will travel in another child next?

Who says there is an unlimited number of waiting souls? Maybe they draw straws.

CMarket said:
Does that mean that newborns are soulless until a soul occupies them?

I don't know. Maybe. I don't see how that would make reincarnation impossible.

CMarket said:
Eventually you would be bored.

Because when given infinite time there is apparently a finite number of things that can be done.

CMarket said:
There's only so many times you can do something, even have sex, without it becoming dull.

"I'm not in the mood."
*time passes*
"Let's get it on."

Boredom passes. Halfway through winter, I get tired of winter and long for summer. Halfway through summer, I get tired of summer and long for winter. Maybe halfway through my life I'll long for the seasons to stop changing. Maybe I'll be born again and have the same seasonal cycle I have now.

As long as there is change, boredom is temporary.

CMarket said:
Besides, most things that make us interesting are mistakes and losing control, both of which are obsolete in heaven, right?

I find far more things interesting than simply mistakes.

Maybe hell would be more down your alley.
"No way! That's would be... Hell!"
No kidding. That doesn't stop it from being your true desire, since heaven is, obviously, completely understood and bound by the same principles as the world we live in now and, boring by comparison.

Think of it this way: you have an ideal of what would be perfect. You try to conceptualize that ideal. You find flaws in that concept hat make it not ideal. You remove those flaws. You find more. You remove them. Obviously this would take a lot of time, but that shouldn't be a problem if you're living forever, right?

If you've got a better idea of what heaven is, then that would be your paradise.

If this world could be heaven, why isn't it?

Scyth-Master said:
I'll make sure to take some snap shots, as of now I can't find any shots of the wall in which it was written. But I'll search for it, none the less.

Please do. Of all that I have learned about Egypt in this thread, most of it came from Elenai, with any halfway decent backing whatsoever.

Gilles · Mar 16, 2009

yakonshus said:
2. Going straight to eternal happines and cheers. That on the other side, sounds nice, but you could be bored of it when the first 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 millenias have passed. And to this some people think that the only thing you do in that time is to worship god and sing songs for him...

See, you're thinking in terms of time. There is no time in heaven, it is eternity.

The_Silent · Mar 16, 2009

Gilles said:
See, you're thinking in terms of time. There is no time in heaven, it is eternity.

Like here on earth, its only a human tendency to think in time; years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, seconds and all that. Why not do that in heaven, or are we simply not cabable of thinking like that when we reach that point. Like limited intelligence or do we simply just not care at all?

Gilles · Mar 16, 2009

The_Silent said:
Like here on earth, its only a human tendency to think in time; years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, seconds and all that. Why not do that in heaven, or are we simply not cabable of thinking like that when we reach that point. Like limited intelligence or do we simply just not care at all?

I'm not exactly sure, it's a mystery since we can't think outside of time.
But what is time? I'd say it's motion. Once the universe was put in motion, there was time.
Heaven is probably void of motion, and therefore time. Who knows though.

PurplePoot · Mar 17, 2009

Gilles said:
See, you're thinking in terms of time. There is no time in heaven, it is eternity.

There is time. Time is change; thus, if there is change, there is time. Judging by descriptions of heaven from about every heaven(/paradise)-promoting religion on the planet (including christianity), there therefore is time in heaven.

Gilles · Mar 17, 2009

PurplePoot said:
There is time. Time is change; thus, if there is change, there is time. Judging by descriptions of heaven from about every heaven(/paradise)-promoting religion on the planet (including christianity), there therefore is time in heaven.

True, perhaps even though God is beyond time, heaven, and it's inhabitants, are not.

PurplePoot · Mar 17, 2009

Gilles said:
True, perhaps even though God is beyond time, heaven, and it's inhabitants, are not.

It's not perhaps. It's logically necessary.

For that matter, god is not beyond time either. For example, you have said that s/he/it can feel emotions, am I right?

The_Silent · Mar 17, 2009

PurplePoot said:
It's not perhaps. It's logically necessary.

For that matter, god is not beyond time either. For example, you have said that s/he/it can feel emotions, am I right?

Due to the fact that time is an human invention, and no animals nor people from some tribe societies think in time. Time passes, but only because we think and feel so...

Deitri · Mar 17, 2009

We'll be dead.

PurplePoot · Mar 17, 2009

The_Silent said:
Due to the fact that time is an human invention, and no animals nor people from some tribe societies think in time. Time passes, but only because we think and feel so...

Time is not a human invention - the concept of time is. Some microscopic bacteria effectively behave in two dimensions, but there are still three.

tomv8 · Mar 18, 2009

after u die. u wait and u wait and u get born back as squishy animal i would like to be a nice squishy cat =3

What happens after death?

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