Warcraft Royale v1.30.2

The Panda · Sep 23, 2018

Guess you beat me too it, but im still creating my version of a royale. Add some screenshots and some more information in description would help out a little bit.

Nudl9 · Sep 23, 2018

I'll add more screenshots from playtests very soon.

deepstrasz · Sep 26, 2018

That description is well uninviting.

A bit too random I guess especially concerning hero balance.

Maybe you could make the danger zone more representative somehow; the border at least.

The map edges are kind of useless when the zone shrinks and you can't really access it all in the early game because there are many strong creatures there too. I guess you gotta make a run to the roosts with a strong unit.

Did you make the terrain too?

The neutral buildings are not random?

Overall, well used Warcraft III resources; creative.

Approved.

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Nudl9 · Sep 26, 2018

I'll improve descriptions.
I'm a bit curious why you came to the conclusion that the balance is random?
All heroes share some usefullness in the earlier or later parts of the game.
Every single unit and item is available in the game, which allows for enough counterplay.
It's not like i even changed much from normal ladder, which is fairly balanced.

deepstrasz · Sep 27, 2018

Nudl9 said:

I'm a bit curious why you came to the conclusion that the balance is random?
Click to expand...

I'm mostly referring to hero vs hero on this one. For instance Priestess of the Moon vs Blademaster.
Still have to answer to:

deepstrasz said:

Did you make the terrain too?
Click to expand...

Nudl9 · Sep 27, 2018

deepstrasz said:

I'm mostly referring to hero vs hero on this one. For instance Priestess of the Moon vs Blademaster.
Still have to answer to:
Click to expand...

Ah i see, well think of it like this. You're not supposed to win that 1v1 fight. The idea of being able to "outplay" is an idealized concept thats impossible to realize in any asymmetric game. Since it's a bad matchup so you want to dodge it as much as possible and let other better equipped heroes deal with him, such as Demon Hunter. However if he keeps bullying you, you can level up scout so that you have the vision to avoid him, a spell that also has true sight btw or you can buy sorcs to slow him or invis yourself. You can also investing in armor through ring of protection or priests inner fire ability, so crit. doesn't deal ridicolous damage. Think of it like a game of rock paper scissor.

Yes i made the terrain.

deepstrasz said:

The map edges are kind of useless when the zone shrinks and you can't really access it all in the early game because there are many strong creatures there too. I guess you gotta make a run to the roosts with a strong unit.
Click to expand...

You're not supposed to be able to purchase strong creatures such as dragons early, theres a reason they're gated behind strong creeps. The circle basicly sets the premise for what you can and can't buy on the map and every game's different. The idea is that you have to deal with the cards you're dealt with.

deepstrasz · Sep 27, 2018

Nudl9 said:

You can also investing in armor through ring of protection or priests inner fire ability, so crit. doesn't deal ridicolous damage. Think of it like a game of rock paper scissor.
Click to expand...

I know most of those but I'm just saying, maybe someone follows your wisp and gets blademaster and you priestess. Even if you escape, you'll lose precious time.

Hmm, would you randomize the neutral buildings a bit? That would create more flavour for the game. Say, not always the frost wyrm roost in the northeast but maybe it can be instead of the roost in the southwest and so on.

Perfeks · Sep 27, 2018

I kind of agree with deepstrasz on the hero balancing issue. You can't just put melee heroes and think it is balanced. Even in melee, some heroes aren't suitable as a first hero and act more as a support. You'd probably have to boost some heroes (compared to melee), especially all heroes that are unit-dependent (auras, heals...), because most of the time you have way less units than in melee. I understand that you can somehow counterplay, but some players will have a way harder game than others. I like to have some randomness and "deal with what you have", but it seems that the random hero selection has too much influence.

Furthermore, you are given the choice to choose your race. I think it's kind of pointless, since the only true decision would be to just compute your probabilities of getting a good hero in the category. I would rather classify the different heroes in categories like :

"assassin" (strong 1v1 offensive capabilities, wins by picking off the right opponents)

"escapist" (invisibility, movespeed, ranged+slow..., wins by avoiding fights and ultimately engaging harmed enemies)

"survivor" (so tanky that most people won't want to waste time to 1v1 him, and he might even win in the long term, but he has no direct impact on the game as he has very few offensive capabilities, wins by just trying to hold the center)

...

This way, people wouldn't get frustrated and can choose a hero to suit their playstyle. Because I don't think people actually care to just be "human" or "orc". But again, to reach balance, you'd really have to change some stats and maybe change some spells.

As for the shops, I think you shouldn't randomize them, because it looks like knowing where is what is key to success in this game. Randomizing them would just turn the game to more luck by just finding what you need by chance. But I agree that you should do something about the creeps. Red creeps in the borders are useless. You should even make them from easy to hard from border to center. That would make people go gradually towards the center without even needing the zone and that would prevent players to bunker the center from the beginning. By the way, I know the circle is not supposed to shrink exactly to the center, but it will inevitably roughly tend to.

Deleted member 219079 · Sep 27, 2018

played once, this is the pinnacle of wc3 modding and paragon we creation 5/5 vote for dc

deepstrasz said:

Priestess of the Moon vs Blademaster
Click to expand...

bm gun' run after i slap sum boots on dat potm aaass

deepstrasz · Sep 27, 2018

BlueSaint said:

bm gun' run after i slap sum boots on dat potm aaass
Click to expand...

Buh dat taigah!

BlueSaint said:

played once, this is the pinnacle of wc3 modding and paragon we creation 5/5 vote for dc
Click to expand...

I was me amazed myself too.

Nudl9 · Sep 28, 2018

deepstrasz said:

Hmm, would you randomize the neutral buildings a bit? That would create more flavour for the game. Say, not always the frost wyrm roost in the northeast but maybe it can be instead of the roost in the southwest and so on.
Click to expand...

People have trouble finding the right things and getting familiar with the layout, do you think this would help in that regard?
Randomness will just ruins the competitive aspect of the game.

Perfeks said:

Furthermore, you are given the choice to choose your race. I think it's kind of pointless, since the only true decision would be to just compute your probabilities of getting a good hero in the category.
Click to expand...

Thats kind of the whole point.
Lets say you want to play Demon Hunter for some reason, then you can say goodbye to some starting gold for a better probability.
Or if you really hate playing pit lord, you can just pick a random ranged hero.
The less random the more expensive it will be basicly.

deepstrasz · Sep 28, 2018

Nudl9 said:

People have trouble finding the right things and getting familiar with the layout, do you think this would help in that regard?
Randomness will just ruins the competitive aspect of the game.
Click to expand...

Well, a dragon is still a dragon. I mean I'm not saying you should make a building either appear as a shop or a roost but saying that you could make a set of random buildings (the ? marked ones in the editor) from dragon roosts, shops, tier 1 units barracks etc. It was just an idea. I mean you could explore, experiment more with game modes.

I agree with Perfeks that the hero choice is awkward. You could make a game mode where you are able to choose whatever hero you want (+/-copies for other players).

Nudl9 · Sep 28, 2018

Having forced random makes the game a lot better though. What do you think would happen if i let players pick exactly the hero they want? Players would never try new things and would pick the same hero or the hero that they think is the most broken. Probably leaning towards the less micro intensive heroes such as BM. The meta would get stale really fast. So randoming keeps the game fresh because players are forced to adapt. Personally i really hate true randomness, so for purely strategical reasons i added the feature to random from certain hero pools.

About "class" like hero pools, a hero pool like "assassin" could mean a lot don't you think? Most heroes with the right combination of items or units can fit this description.
I'd rather not impose players with ideas of how to play their hero and let them figure it out themselves. This is going to be a poor example, but let's say you want to random "assassin" and you get Lich and then you don't understand why he fits the role. You're going to get mad because you got him and you don't think he fits into that role. Thats why i only have hero pools with tags that are considered concice. For example, theres no doubt about what would be considered a "ranged" hero.

deepstrasz · Sep 28, 2018

Nudl9 said:

Having forced random makes the game a lot better though. What do you think would happen if i let players pick exactly the hero they want? Players would never try new things and would pick the same hero or the hero that they think is the most broken
Click to expand...

Yeah but you could make game modes: choose hero, random hero etc. Problem is that even so, the chance of playing a hero would be thin or you might get to play one hero more than others if even at all. But I guess that's why you made it group random, race/faction based to increase the chance. So, I agree.

Nudl9 · Sep 28, 2018

This is personal belief, but i really dislike the idea of players handling how they want to experience "products". I'd rather just make a complete package that satisfies their whims. It's sort of like, if you've had beef, pineapple and barbeque sauce on a pizza. Now you might not like pineapple, but it's part of that "package" and synergises really well with the other ingredients. So by refusing to have pineapple on that pizza you're losing out on the experience the chef wants you to have. Simply because you're refusing to try new things. To relate this back to my map, letting players choose AP or AR gamemode would not be healthy for the gameplay and overall i haven't had any complaints about AR being the only mode. Which probably means that it just works so well that people don't pay attention to it.

deepstrasz · Sep 28, 2018

Nudl9 said:

To relate this back to my map, letting players choose AP or AR gamemode would not be healthy for the gameplay and overall i haven't had any complaints about AR being the only mode. Which probably means that it just works so well that people don't pay attention to it.
Click to expand...

How many people you say plyted your map? You've just released it. I doubt you actually have a statistic.

Nudl9 said:

It's sort of like, if you've had beef, pineapple and barbeque sauce on a pizza.
Click to expand...

But if you're allergic to pineapples, you know what that means, you don't eat at all or try to take it out of the pizza because you can't choose not to have it since it comes with the whole package

EDIT: also reading your description again, PUBG is just a Battle Royale clone/rip-off.

Nudl9 · Sep 28, 2018

I playtest it every day with multiple people and my friends.
People are usually very honest when playing maps in the presence of the creator.
So i do get all the feedback, good or bad.
People can get rude sometimes even.

PUBG is just more well known than Battle Royale, it's just more relateable.
Besides Royale is already in the title, i just want people to get the gist of it.

pick-a-chew · Oct 1, 2018

I played this once with you earlier, and found it to be quite fun.

Obviously it bugged out with the leaver and i never saw the end of the game, but is it round based?

My other thoughts:

I see in the screenshots there's a visual effect for the circle, i couldn't see any effect but i'm guessing it's a 1.30.1 issue.

The circle shrinks on a long timer, have you considered having it shrink very slowly every second?

Feels a bit cheesy because some heroes are quite fragile, you can burst them down and eliminate them very quickly (single target spells and command flying units). Felt a bit anti-climatic.

Game is more fun at the start, and becomes less fun as you have 1 or 2 armies to move around.

Would be better if heroes had a bit more emphasis in the game (in terms of how powerful and durable they are) whilst units are less.

A mode where people you kill are revived for your killer's team. I won in the game so didn't get to experience the "AFK and watch" part, but can't imagine it is fun! Just a wild idea.

Keep up the good work!

Nudl9 · Oct 1, 2018

I changed a lot of the main mechanics in v0.16, there are things i simply can't test alone and ENT hosting has been down the whole weekend so i haven't been able to proofcheck things.
I will smooth out errors in the following days.

-Leavers are kind of bugged atm, i will get on it as soon as possible.

-The circle does have visual effects, as seen on screenshot. Though the circle might less visible when it's really large. It's a bit of a balance problem between looking good/lagg from SFX.

-There are indeed very fragile heroes. Lich comes to mind. While fragile heroes (typically INT) might suffer lategame, they usually compensate by great earlygame. For example Far Seer has one of the best creep camp clear speeds, while Lich for example can really fuck up peoples farm effiency by using Frost Nova on weak targets. Also if you've played more experienced players, people usually carry anti-burst mitigation. Invulnerability pots, anti-magic shield, invisibility all go a long way. If not items, then you can buy units like sorcs, banshees or use priests inner fire which gives massive armor boost.

-I'm not sure what or when you mean the game becomes less fun? The game basicly transitions from PvE to PvP over the state of the game, which means more interactions and overall fun. If you're not really a competitive person and prefer to avoid conflict though i can fully understand.

-I don't think you understand the consequence of making this game hero focused. Having units be a bigger focus is better, because it adds more skill and depth. What i think is a major point is that you also have tangible resources you can destroy. What would happen if this was a true hero arena and you lost a fight? Everyone would just go back and regen without any major losses. Games that don't punish bad plays just aren't fun in my opinion. If all you have to do is control one hero then it becomes too easy.

-If you die you spawn as a ghost that can possess a unit. So you can to some degree interact and have an impact when dead. It's somewhat restrictive, since i don't want good players to feel punished after having played really well or just for upsetting several players.

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Warcraft Royale v1.30.2

Warcraft Royale v1.30.2 (Map)

The Panda

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Nudl9

deepstrasz

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Nudl9

deepstrasz

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Nudl9

deepstrasz

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Perfeks

Deleted member 219079

deepstrasz

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Nudl9

deepstrasz

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Nudl9

deepstrasz

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Nudl9

deepstrasz

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Nudl9

pick-a-chew

Nudl9

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Warcraft Royale v1.30.2

Warcraft Royale v1.30.2 (Map)

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