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Reforged Warcraft III Reforged - Artistic/Textures/UI Feedback

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Sieben, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. kantarion

    kantarion

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    Everyone who thinks that community (whos present here since day one) is opened for new weird trendy things that has nothing to do with Warcraft 3 RTS is making huge mistake by trying to proove something here. In your eyes we are some toxic fanatics or sometihing, but i will tell you now. Do not dare to implement some democracy here with bombs droping on our heads sir , no NATO philisophy here is welcomed.

    We do not have any interest, we are not on any blizzard pay list, we are not payed to spread propaganda of billionaire company and convince people in something they dont want at all.

    We are waiting remaster for over 15 years , and during the period you abandonan us we created marvelous things alone.

    What blizzard did is they butchered art designs, delete originals and replace with something we do not want.

    This game is having too much powerfull potential (they made moba and mobile games out of its custom games) so that blizzard can behave to it like this.

    The starting philosophy of Reforged is wrong and it delete original designs FOREVER and replace it with some suspicious designs that reminds to world of warcraft or hots, but some are outside blizzard universe totaly.

    It would be far more productive if they sticked to faitfull design aka remaster + bonus things.

    This way everyone would be happy.

    I declare my self as advanced purist. I like having city of lordaeron buidlings,silvermoon, its environment etc. More bridges more and more awesome thing.

    What i cant understand is : Why the hell they gave us buzzcut paladin and deleting old design in high poly version.

    This is called brutal force. Give me the god damn high poly version of war3hd-sc2 in reforged, then make a god damn variations.

    Variations that will be based on purist paladin from wc3 udnerstand ? Not some random dudes

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Respecting the proportions ofc.

    And dont tell me that this is blury and reforged is super clean crisp etc.

    Because what i talk here is ART DESIGN and not which model format is superior or not.

    Cause this is without shaders and its x100 times better than Reforged designs
     
  2. Juveqis

    Juveqis

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    Well said, although I'm afraid they refuse to accept the truth, don't waste any more time on them.
     
  3. SebioL

    SebioL

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    Okay, I understand your dissatisfaction. It could have been something closer to the same things as always. I understand the historical factor and how important it is to the community, although WC3 is not just about graphics and that for many this new proposal is very welcome. But we are not going to generalize. As for humans, there is even this change with greater aggravation, but for the rest, we cannot be dishonest. There were no changes as relevant to standards in general with all races, perhaps some Orcs and some specific models. If you go to see, the Creeps remained very close not only to the design, but also to the old proportions.
    But look at Uther. It is even in the same format as the armor of the HOTS versions, it is almost a faithful copy of the old models.
    Only a few more details were added and the size increased to realistic proportions.
    Very good to know that for you and so for many others, the MOD SC2 and HOTS versions are better enough than the current models. That's right with new ones using shaders. At least, the community already has countless good options to create within a new graphics engine.
    And I who support new proposals, with newcomers who also praised the new ones, we have this nice version.
    But do not think that I am against the old version, I liked it and for many years I identified myself, but if there are proposals for new models, I will always be in favor for more, including supporting old versions if there is any investment for a pack with new units and textures to her.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  4. kantarion

    kantarion

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    Creeps are not even close to be faitfull to original. While on humans main problem are proportions.
    Also,i would add that whole artfeedback about models was deleted on forums,and i would need here to demonstrate that your are being highly flexibile and not rly caring for the art, but still you are being very agressive to proove your point which is wrong.

    Sadly i dont have strenght to search for my prooves, also i wasted my precious time to make this just because of you.

    Note that i am not modeler,and that is just work of my passion edit.

    About Uther Design ofc it will be WoW or Hots alike , cause it cant be just default paladin.
    Still his proportions are like hes from some asian mobile game.

    Also, there are ways to skip dwarfy proportions and super realistic proportions too. And find some middle

    1.Reforged proportions 2.Mine edit 3. Heroes of the Storm

    [​IMG]

    Sir, you dont have any idea how much artfeedback i sent to Kam and on forums. Now you are asking me to waste my enery with you again

    Do u see how small the head is in Reforged mode.

    Do you know why reforged armor looks HUGE ? Because heads are small and base body are weak junkys.

    WHILE obviously in real time, the biggest size of armor as you can see is HOTS ONE.

    And how the hell i dont complain about it. Because general proportions and parts are synced.

    You cant go tall think junky base body thin proportion with super small head for RTS game with armor that just appears to be super huge because of small heads and other thin parts.


    ITS A GOD DAMN RTS!

    But i was so kind for you today to become a fuking modeler while i am tile maker
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  5. Storm Knight

    Storm Knight

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    Glorious PBR models, pathetic. always dependent on ingame graphics. this was not the way for Warcraft 3's visual overhaul.
     
  6. kantarion

    kantarion

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    Yep...And renders doesnt work well enough. Shading is ultra weak.

    Not to mention that terrain render not working, until they fix and align uv base tile, deal with normals.

    Maybe increase polycounts for terrain and cliff after that if possible... Maybe those changes would bring brush feature to editor - not sure about that but...

    Surely those things would open gates for wc3 to become modern.
     
  7. SebioL

    SebioL

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    The terrains issue can still be well debated and easily adjusted in new patch's. I am a great critic of the terrains. But as for the models, unfortunately I foresee little or no chance of changes on the part of the entrepreneur. The community is left with such a feat. Especially because they require more investments than simple adjustments. I care about art, believe it or not. I participated very little in the initial debates of Reforged, but I believe that the art of the designer itself ... is not the big problem. There was much praise for the new designer. You can see that just making a simple resizing of certain parts of the new Reforged model (adjusting head, armor, some parts of the body) is already quite compatible with previous versions. This can be an idea for an upcoming MOD, nothing that is so difficult and even easily adaptable to new textures.
    But in addition to the proportion of the body becoming more realistic, it displeased the vast majority, I see that the armor got heavier and these, yes, caused the greatest strangeness of the public, without a doubt ...
    If you see a Footman for example, it appears to have the armor of a main hero ...
    Although it's not bad for me. In my opinion, I realize that the heavier armor is even a way of styling more within this implanted realism and contributing to look more like a fantasy game. because with humans in real sizes and the armor also following the same concept, it wouldn't make any sense.
    In contrast to my praise for the Reforged ... reducing the models to sizes as in HOTS, it makes sense to decrease the armor, becoming very presentable ... as in traditional patterns. Your modified Uther is a good idea for modifications directly to the original base of the Reforged models.
    Less badly his appearance as the physiognomy still remained Western. At least we can still modify the Reforged models themselves based on proportions and idealize them in traditional patterns.
    Because the Chinese community had a lot of influence on the new models without a doubt, after all, the warcraft market is quite large there. We should be thankful that at least they didn't make faces like Asians, did Arthas or all the Paladins think with an anime face in the style of the Knights of the Zodiacs? It would be the end of the world! Lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  8. kantarion

    kantarion

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    Arthas face is directly asian anime. What is not anime for example is knight face

    Little reminder about designs, and how warcraft 3 reforged lost classic spirit and turned into something generic

    [​IMG]

    I am kinda done arguing with you.

    You see you can not cheat China because they are working and trading nation. They are not emotional like us, they are cold and rational : The product is nowhere near what was advertised.

    Theres no crying about will you fix it, there are no blizzard advocates saying have a patience they will fix. Game is out, its a bad product that cost alot. End of the story

    综合讨论区-《魔兽争霸III:重制版》官方论坛

    客户服务区-《魔兽争霸III:重制版》官方论坛

    Reforged is a bad product. End of the story

    Warcraft III: Reforged
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  9. Storm Knight

    Storm Knight

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    Yep, and this guy is here telling its not Asian inspired. look a the Pandas, look at the faces of units and heros and their icons. sigh.

    Blizzard didn't even make this game for us, they made it for China. and it is self evident. they got visuals tweaked in their favor, art and design tweaked in their favor. special teenmod for them. they got news sooner then us and probably still do, they got exclusive collectors edition.

    This game wasn't made realistic because developers and the new art team had a grand imagination. it was done to market to China XD
    This is soo overwhelmingly obvious i'm at shock that he keeps thinking this is some new idea to change and advance.

    The damn project was half assed, the inhouse visual art director left midway through. new one was inexperienced. Lemonsky went to Reddit saying they got hardly any feedback to change models they were all quickly passed one after another.

    My man, the new visuals are not the result of set in stone goals, its the result of no goals and only doing the cheapest and most easiest way to market the game and get money off of.

    PBR based realistic models mightaswell be renamed to "Anti Warcraft 3 Models" when inside the context of the game. how hard do we need to explain ourselves ? this is depressing.
     
  10. Footman16

    Footman16

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    You're obviously very angry about all this but at this point, you're not really adding anything constructive in terms of the artistic feedback other than its Anime/Chinese/bad which is simplistic, racist and just plain wrong.

    If they were really pandering to China there'd be no skeletons in the game or bones showing, which... is not the case. Also I've no idea what makes you think the Chinese are robots who are "cold and rational" whilst we are "emotional", this is just bizarre tbh.

    Slightly more on topic I've noticed clipping issues with a few models whilst editing them, the Captain and Knight model in particular caught my attention but there may be more; the clipping issue is hard to solve due to the animations not giving much care as to whether they clip or not.
     
  11. kantarion

    kantarion

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    Me racistic ? Me hate china ? Dude,me saying they are being rational dont make me a racist. Go check their forums and see if they threat with refund, if blizzard dont fix the game soon. They aint whiners.

    To them it is simple, blizzard advertise and final product are very differential. I request refund,i been cheated,give me back my money. End of the story
     
  12. Storm Knight

    Storm Knight

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    I agree that Kantarion is getting too hot headed but please don't play the racist card and ruin the entire thread.

    Just read the post i send below him, I'm more in agreement with Kantarion that SebioL is ignoring and avoiding the evidence then his actual comments.

    Its all just a big game of money, more money in western audience and Blizzard will pander to them like chasing carrot on a stick.


    And i'll expand to this with more evidence. Even though Blizzard has the teenmode specifically made to remedy the Chinese wishes that completely and utterly covers up skeletons. they still made the models and especially their faces more asian-esque. and made several attempts to get away with having specific things changed that cater to China but was unnoticeable for the casual western market so they could just skip making 2 entirely different sets of designs for Teenmode and regular mode.

    You can see that the Panda from Hero's of the Storm clearly drawn and under the affect of one of the founding fathers of Blizzard art Samwise Didier, showing them as fun carefree yet colorful and powerful Panda warriors. while in Reforged they look like heavily ornated and armored Chinese generals with beards. I don't have a dislike towards this design outside of Warcraft and broader Blizzard art, i do have a problem when they try to wipe wash the original intend of these models because big daddy China has more money in their pocket and Blizzard sees fit to pander to them.

    This discussion isn't about whether or not Blizzard tried to pander to China or not, its about to what extend they did. and they did to a great extend. but the entire argument about using the word China can honestly be tossed aside if only people understood that tBlizzard did this intentionally and it is a no brainer argument. I already posted my final review of the visual overhaul in page 33 titled "My final two cents on Reforgeds visual overhaul :p " and there is no blaming china in it while perfectly pointing out what i think its wrong.

    @kantarion Btw that ghoul by Andre can use a tong xP
     

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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  13. YourArthas

    YourArthas

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    Last person you'll see saying something bad against China is kantarion and me lol, he is calling China a working nation that values labor instead of going 'they'll fix the game in time!!' unlike Blizzard advocates we have here that is all and instead if the game was made for China it would not be that shit because China sees WC3 as some sort 'national' game but the game is 'asian mobile game' inspired instead and for that reason Chinese forums are full of refund requests.
     
  14. Footman16

    Footman16

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    The reason the designs might be more fitting to an east asian audience is maybe because LemonSky is a Malaysian studio has that possibility crossed peoples minds?
     
  15. YourArthas

    YourArthas

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    Yup that is one of the main reasons why art sucks, they have hired the cheapest studio possible instead of hiring DragonFly again.

    But main reason is LemonSky had no guidence from Blizzard.
     
  16. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    But it's not Chinese though.
     
  17. Footman16

    Footman16

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    In the same way there's commonality between Western themes and designs there's also commonality in East Asian themes and designs.
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    The funny part being Malaysia is mostly Islamic.
     
  19. kantarion

    kantarion

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    I have found ways to improve the game trough modding for more rational appareance of unit models and some doodads, working on existing basis, like edit proportions or using reforged parts only.

    I dont know how classic team stands with funds, but the most cheapest way for now is to mod reforged to more loyal models of the classic or even blizzard universe.

    Speaking of Thrall face, i think it shoud be more long and thin with less beard than existing one.

    I know why they put super beards on orcs like this, but i will be accused for racism or something. I want to tell those people that i read Holy Qoran and i believe in it,even i come from christian country. I am not racist. End of the story

    But theres no place in fantasy game to put your national culture dressings or beards into warcraft 3. Militia reforged models reminds me of christian crusade from other rts games...I am sorry...This is fantasy game...Hesus Hernando Christo why....

    [​IMG]

    Beard is from end cinematic samuro-thrall model edited...
    People around bllues told me they dont see the difference and its minor.

    Sure,sure. They say it for every model , because they dont care, and at the end we got game that is not warcraft 3 anymore...

    Classic team aint real developers, they are more to be like maintaince tehnicians.

    Their team need to be boosted with real professional who would help them, and classic team would fast bring them to problems they are facing.

    Do we know how much money was invested in this project ?

    https://twitter.com/ATVI_AB/status/1271117546981228544/photo/1
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I think they made them look more Mongol than Chinese. I didn't get any Arab vibes...