Warcraft III Reforged - Artistic/Textures/UI Feedback

deepstrasz

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And Jaina should look exacly like in BFA face-wise because its the best remake of her original wc3 appearence and looks exacly like wc3 self in there:
But the character is older by then...
Also Tyrande should be just Wc3HD Moon priestess model instead - its perfect
That chest work though. Makes sense why Maiev was so envious.
 
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I get the argument of wanting the WC3 HD models posted above but at the same time I also really like the newness of the models while still retaining the spirit of the originals.
 

Zorrot

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Hey guys, I wonder if the cliff system isn't work correctly, as you can see the texture of cliff have messed when I try to increase the level of cliff.
1575440401x1033347913.png
 
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@deepstrasz Dont annoy me with this guys videos xD
None of RF models is really based on original concepts in any meanigful way. And now since according to grubby its last days of real classic wc3 before they kill it off just like Reign of chaos bnet making everything "reforged" There wont be any choice but to play butchered version of my beloved game........what the hell happened after SC:R that they went this idiotic lazy route......killing off RoC and now classic just because its easier for them....while they make things harder for us....
I really wish we just got a remaster like SC:R whith classic kept proper and models being just lioe War3hd dragonfly ones... it would be correct way to do things......now they change values of animations on units just to fit their shitty hd models.....its ridiculous....
Its all on top of them not unterstanding the vision or design and logic behind it that original team had, and actingout of selfproclaimed superiority in every interview and devpanel still mocking original game directly or indirectly by laughing at it every time they mention original art. None of these people should ever touch wc3 because od their illfitted approach and constant disrespect which is conplete 180 from how they treated Starcraft 1. When with wc3 there is more of reason to stay faithful to original...but that didnt cross their hollow heads even once.
Heroes of the storm renditions if wc3 characters is atlelast trying to stay faithful and to echo the animations and overall design.
They dont even understand that wc3 is for most part serious despite cartoony aesthetic and some jokey pised lines and couple animations. 2018 culling demo turned dark, serious and dreary scene into a comedy with arthas idioticly pointing fingers at the city. Its not even trying to follow WoW withits aethetics because wow interations were made woth understandingof the material and themes and WoW itself is still quite close to wc3's graphics style with slightly cartoony characters and eviroments all beig matte with no reflections or specular highlights.
In RF these morons force it in on everything while creating automatic all gloss effect to 'fix' classic ingame and community assets making then look like they are drenched in oil. While forgetting how important distinct animations of og wc3 models are to both their look and unit recognition for melee players but also many custom maps.....
 
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Level 12
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So for modding purposes, if one does not want to use the new assets, there is no reason to buy reforged at all
Yes, because you kind of have to throw away old ones or atleast put up with them looking bad, and idiotic model changes that affects older maps, because people working on RF didnt think for a second about that, even with something as simple as "add not replace" doctrine for assets keeping more faithful remakes for all existing stuff and adding more if they want to swap some of them in campaign.
That's on top of other things that RF breaks(some of hte triggers dont work on many maps, tilework replacements are broken and forcefully swapped with RF defaults. You have to pretty much play in SD mode to have everything look coherent, proper and as intenteded.
There are other issues, stupid redubb of non english versions which at its best it as level of female demon hunter....so really bad in execution, even if they got some good voice actors, its all fucked up because of either writing, bad spelling of native lines of characters so like nelven stuff demon hunter of tauren chieftain say(they choke on them exacly like english fem Demon hunter), meh delivery.
Grubby said that they will kill Classic wc3 and force everyone to Reforged....just like they killed Reign of chaos(which had well and alive melee scene still) They have no shame or respect....or any understanding of this game....only good things we have is because of Kam being hired and him pushing for world editor features we want. Sadly noone was hired to direct everything else.....

All i wanted was to Wc3 get treated by them like Starcraft 1 with its remaster....but no.... and you could see this in pretty much every video and interview they are or someone from the team was.....from utmost respect in Sc:R dev videos to constant mockery of wc3 and them laughing at it and people who made it. Acting like they are superior, complaining about non issues or issues they themselves created....
 
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I hope we can tweak lighting and other graphics parameter for each maps o.o
And is there any dynamic lights from special effects?
 
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Greetings Hive!

So there has been a lot of discussion about Reforged already, with a great deal of hype and hopes, but also questions, concerns and speculation. What matters now is that the final product is still a work in progress and Blizzard employees stated several times they were going to have a lot of discussion with the community. They expect us to provide feedback, and hopefully Blizzard will heed our call! (Inviting you here @Kam , if you don"t mind)

I suggest we discuss visual changes in this thread: graphics, design and UI, which are the biggest changes so far. Let's try to be as specific and constructive as possible, not just deliver only vague and general opinions. I'll give it a shot myself, feel free to follow along.


UI:
  • I'm not a big fan of the new UI aesthetics, but I like that its size has been reduced, it provides a better view of the field, and it gives room for further modifications (I'm still hoping for a wider unit selection and more slots for buttons and inventory!)
  • Portrait area: I would prefer if there was a frame around the unit and a background. Also, I find portraits are a bit too big and invasive. I'd like portraits to be mostly about showing the unit's face, with their facial expressions.
  • Icons:
    • I feel like icons miss a larger rim (except for passive abilities, of course), which would make the buttons look like they're in 3D, like the original ones. Right now they seem rather flat.
    • New icons seem to be mixed in different styles. It seems it lacks consistency.
    • Redesigning all icons from scratch seems unnecessary: the original icons (with a higher resolution, if possible) would have certainly been enough, since they were already pretty good; remaking them is a waste of time a manpower.
    • But if the recreation of icons is absolutely necessary, don't make them look like too different from their original design. First, because the original design was good, and changing just for the sake of changing seems pointless. Secondly, and more importantly, we players have been seeing the current design for more than 15 years, and drastic changes will confuse us if it doesn't feel like Warcraft III anymore.
Units:
  • Proportions of almost all units:
    • Almost all units I've seen so far have absurd proportions. It is ok to have stylised units with unrealistic proportions, just like in the original game. However, new units proportions are way over the top, and don't match original units. New units would be better with exaggerated proportions, but not too much, just like the original game. Don't exaggerate what was already exaggerated!
    • Most weapons are oversized. Arthas' hammer is probably the worst. I mean, the man has a hammer ten times the size of his head, this is ridiculous. I really wonder why this aesthetics choice has been made since WoW, I always found it ludicrous, but there is no need to introduce it into Warcraft III (which already had oversized weapons, there is no need to amplify this). Tauren's log, paladin's hammer... have the same issue.
    • Some units have their head way too small compared to the rest of the body, they look really silly with their tiny head (Arthas is the worst).
    • Almost all units have oversized armours. Again, I understand it's a deliberate choice and not just a modeling mistake, but I really don't like it and I'm definitely not the only one. The worst armour parts are spaulders, they are way too big on so many units: grunts, Arthas, footmen... Not only does it give a weird look to units, especially when they have such puny heads, but it's also totally unrealistic: how are fighters supposed to see what's happening in battle when having these large eye-blinders on both shoulders? Keep it sensible, guys!
  • Heroes:
    • Heroes have always been larger and taller than regular units, and it's a good thing. But now, isn't a bit too much, for some heroes (at least Arthas)? If you take a look here, for example, you'll see Arthas is twice the size of a footman, who look sooo teeny tiny compared to his master. I think heroes are recognizable enough, no need to exagerate their size. Blademaster seems ok though.
    • Arthas has such a long neck! And a tiny head! Also, giving him a more arrogant face would be nice. Plus, his pauldrons and his hammer are way too big.
    • Jaina: her face is different from the one she had in Classic WC3. Her staff is too big. Also, despite her design being relatively close to her Classic's version, one thing bothers me: she wears a weird metal corset with a huge cleavage and her belly button exposed. Half-naked chicks are such a cliché in video games/fantasy worlds. That kind of armour protects nothing and looks really ridiculous and unrealistic.
  • Footman:
    • He doesn't look like a "real" footman. He's too epic, too noble, too fancy. He looks like a hero (like this iconic hero from game cinematic) or some commander, not a regular infantryman. Therefore, a few suggestions:
      • Remove the golden rim from some armour parts
      • Reduce the size of spaulders (drastically!)
      • Maybe remove the tabard
    • Pauldrons are insanely oversized. For some reason, in the recent years, many pauldrons in Warcraft games (footmen's pauldrons, or other units/characters') are big, really big, and it doesn't make sense. First, it's totally unrealistic. Of course, Warcraft is not supposed to be actually realistic, since there are Elves, Dragons, magic... But it needs to be coherent and believable. Gigantic pauldrons prevent Footmen to see around them. In a battle, they would be blinded. Secondly, it so far from the original design. And finallay, it doesn't look good: it looks like a spacemarine suit, or a strange carapace, or something like that. It's supposed to look epic, but it's so oversized it looks silly instead. Footman looks like a kid who just tried his dad's armour on. Just look at this picture:
      footmencomparison-png.318720
      This pictures shows how different Classic and Reforged Footmen are. It also shows that gigantic pauldrons don't look good at all, especially when seen from the side. And finally, WoW's version shows that Footmen/Guards can look nice with reasonably-sized armours and weapons.
    • Make the footman more recognizable. His design is not close enough to the original one, and it's harder to recognize footmen in the middle of an army.
    • Footman's posture doesn't reflect is personality and what he was in Classic WC3. In the current Reforged version, the guy stands straight, like posing for a fashion catalogue. He doesn't look like he's "ready for action"! On the other hand, the original version shows the footman not as straight, but in an alert position, ready for combat at anytime. It also reflects the fact that the footman is not a proud, noble and invincible hero who poses like a statue, but a man of the people, who's just here to defend his land and who is indeed "ready for action".
    • The crossguard of the sword looks make the sword look like a toy. It quite ugly, to be honest. Let's compare:
      retardedswords-png.318752
      (on the left is the sword the hero carries in the intro cinematic of Classic WC3)
      Footmen should have swords that look like the picture above, or something similar to Reforged Militia's sword.
  • Peasant:
    • Head is a tiny bit too small, perhaps.
    • Apart from that, they are quite nice. Militia is pretty cool, too. I would only swap their sword for an axe, like in the original game. Axe is more appropriate for a peasant: he already carries one around all the time to chop wood, and from a realistic point of view, a sword is expensive to craft/buy, not everybody can afford one! :)
    • It's odd to see a peasant building a structure using his axe! A hammer would be more appropriate for building animation.
  • Grunt:
    • Is the beard absolutely necessary? I can't get used to the idea that every single grunt of my army will have the exact same beard. Especially if you consider that Raiders also have a black beard. That's too many black beards.
    • I feel like textures make grunts look a bit like plastic figurines (mostly when using a close-up view). I'm not sure why, maybe because the skin is glowing a little, as if it was wet.
    • I think grunt's body is oversized. More specifically, they have gigantic shoulders, hands and chest, which makes their head and legs look ridiculously tiny. In Warcraft 1 and 2, grunts and footmen used to have pretty much the same size; in Warcraft III and WoW, orcs are a little bit larger than humans. In Reforged, Grunts' proportions are totally different than any other Warcraft game. There should be more consistency. Perhaps it would be better to stick with either choice (WC2 or Classic WC3 or WoW), but not make grunts so bulky (they almost have the size of a tauren right now, in my opinion). In the picture below, you can see what I mean about Grunt's proportions.
      gruntscomparison-png.318724
      Imho, Grunts' proportions are better in WoW.
  • Tauren:
    • Texture looks a bit like plastic figurine too.
    • The weapon is way too big. It's obvious when you compare it with the original tauren. The big log Taurens use shouldn't be as large as the Tauren himself.
  • Knight:
    • Knights have weird swords, just like Footmen. Those swords look like toys. Make them slightly more realistic, and mostly work on the crossguard, which is awful as it is currently.
    • One thing maybe could be tweaked: knights colours are too dark, which makes them too different from the original model and harder to identify in the battlefield.
    • I only dislike their lance that they barely use if not at all, but it's not about Reforged, it has always bugged me in vanilla Warcraft III! :) (I'd rather have a shield)
  • Rifleman:
    • Design is very nice, nothing much to say. Very faithful to the origina model, good job on this one. I'm just having one doubt: it's hard to tell when only watching videos, but aren't riflemen a bit too tall, compared to footmen, for example? Feels like they have almost the same size, unless I'm wrong.
  • Mortar Team:
    • The smoking pipe looks nice, but... who would smoke around explosives? 100% realism shouldn't be aimed for, but things need to be plausible.
    • The white-haired Dwarf has some sort of manga hair. It doesn't look like Warcraft at all, ans it will be weird to have an army full of Dwarves with bad hair cut.
    • Pilot goggles are not bad in themselves, but they seem unnecessary. Those Dwarves don't fly, they don't need glasses. Just because pilot goggles might look nice on Dwarves doesn't mean that they should wear them.
    • The scope: maybe its size could be reduced a tiny bit?
    • Apart from those points, Mortar Team is pretty good.
  • Spellbreaker:
    • Overall design is ok, but why such a big helmet? It's thrice the size of his head, while the original design had much more reasonable proportions. Also, the shape of the helmet is different from the original model; maybe it shouldn't have such curvy lines, and it should be more straight, like its original design.
      123-png.318838
      latest
  • Mal'ganis:
    • Some people have been complaining about the absence of tail.
  • Skeletons:
    • I would remove the shield, which seems unnecessary, although it's not a big deal.
  • Ghouls:
    • The main issue would be colours, too much grey, while it used to be pale yellowish in the original game. Units need to be more recognizable. It's not a big issue though, I could live with it, as long as it doesn't decrease efficiency, especially when playing melee games.
    • Ghoul's team colour should be more visible.
  • Units hit in combat:
    • Units don't react when hit in combat. Particles like blood when hitting flesh and sparks when hitting metal armour would be a nice addition. Also, there could be a hit animation. (thanks Abelhawk and Tauer for the idea)
As for the other units, it's too soon, we didn't have the chance to see them closely enough or see them at all.


Buildings:
  • General opinion about buildings: human and orc buildings I have seen so far are too cartoonish and look like plastic toys. They look totally out of place. I suppose textures are to be blamed (but also maybe the meshes, which are probably a tad too stylized). Also, all buildings lack ground texture, which make them look like they were just dropped on the map like a SC2 supply deposit, but I suppose it's something that is planned for the near future.
  • Human buildings in general:
    • Most human buildings look too round, while they used to be more linear in vanilla WC3. This is one of the things that make them too cartoony or toyish. There is nothing wrong with linear walls!
    • Most wall textures are odd. By the look of them, you can't tell which material human buildings were made of.
  • Human Barracks:
    • For some reason, Barracks look way too small compared to they classic counterparts. The four towers are really tiny. It's obvious when compared to other buildings such as farms and lumbermill (which have been enlarged a lot!). Barracks should be a tiny bit higher, and towers should be much larger. I suppose there is a limitation here, so the model doesn't go beyond the structure's pathing, but please, go as far as you can so barracks don't look like some puny Playmobil replica of a real building! Apart from that, barracks are ok.
  • Human Farms:
    • Farms look rather larger than before, I'm not unhappy with it, it brings more realism.
    • However, I dislike the textures, especially the thatched roofs, which look like plastic, once again.
  • Human Towers:
    • I find human tower not big enough, compared to the original ones. The latter looked a bit more massive, while the new towers look a bit too thin.
  • Human Altar of Kings:
    • The Lordaeron banner looks cool, but it is unnecessary. It ruins all the potential of altar of kings in custom maps, because all custom maps don't take place in Lordaeron, all humans are not from Lordaeron, etc.
    • Textures are odd. They look too bland and smooth. The original Altar seem to be made of stone and marble, but Reforged Altar, once again I'm sorry, look like plastic.
  • Castle:
    • Castles lines are definitely too curvy.
    • Towers size could be slightly increased.

Overall graphics and art style:
  • Isn't there some sort of grey filter in the game? Not the UI, whose colours seem to remain untouched, but there is some kind of light fog in the field which make colours more bland, it's uncanny.
  • Some people, including me, are bothered with the graphics choices that have been made for Reforged. New graphics don't seem to capture the spirit of the original game, it doesn't feel quite like the same game at all. The atmosphere is different. Reforged style is close to modern games such as HotS (or also Fortnite, Civilization 6...), but it would have been wiser to update and enhance the original style instead of completely transforming it to follow the modern graphics trends.
  • For example, environment is not too bad in itself, but its textures are too smooth, too bright, the colours are too washed-out (too childish maybe?), and don't reflect the original atmosphere of the game.
  • Plastic-looking and cartoonish buildings. Human buildings don't look like they are made of stone.
  • Well-designed units, but some of them look like plastic figurines (grunt, tauren), and most units are probably overdetailed. Units need to look nice in close-up views, but too many details make them harder to recognise at first glance. Shiny armours probably don't help.
  • There may be a contrast between environment (bright, smooth...), semi-realistic units, and over-cartoonish buildings. Seems like environment, units and building come from three different games. It lacks cohesion.
  • Also, see what I said about oversized weapons and armours, and body proportions. Right now, just like some WoW models, these oversized parts look so ugly and absurd. I have seen this opinion very, very often.
  • There are many, many people who are not happy with the art style. I read various comments here and there (Hive, Reddit, Youtube...) and there is clearly something wrong with the graphics. For example, you may have a look at Grubby's video here and read the comments. It is best to see the same idea expressed in various ways by different people. I read several times there was too much inspiration from WoW and HotS. I think it is not entirely true; WoW's art style has cartoonish textures, but characters' proportions are almost realistic. In Reforged, proportions are bizarre. Some body parts are huge, some others are extermely small and same goes for armours parts and weapons; proportions are quite realistic overall, but some body parts or armour parts have highly exaggerated proportions (way too small or too big). It looks very odd, and it doesn't look like any other Warcraft game. For example, the Footman has almost realistic proportions, but his armour and his sword are totally cartoony. Anyway, I think a vast majority of people prefer an improvement of the existing graphics style and atmosphere, not a complete transformation.
  • In a nutshell: we don't want a totally different game. Reforged needs to feel like Warcraft, to be close enough to Warcraft III, whether it's about icons, atmosphere, environment, etc.

So, these are my thoughts after the first glance we had at Blizzcon. Whether you are happy or not with Reforged new assets, it would be nice if there was more feedback and some constructive debate. :)


Footman is the easiest because its just an updated version of the old model Footman model. :3
 
Footman is the easiest because its just an updated version of the old model Footman model. :3

Tbh my only complaint about the Footman model is the animations, like people have said they stand too erect and upright, they need to look a bit more hunched and combat ready. Also there needs to be a bigger distinction in animations between being in defend and not because right now in-game I can't tell the difference often, the attack animations being the worst offenders.
 
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@Sieben and they swiftly ignored us all, while Brian Sousa kept disrespecting and insulting original art at 2019 blizzcon after he clearly failed to understand it's design and purpose in 2018. Wc3 is now forever ruined not just art wise but also due to cut and utterly broken functionality and total loss of classic Wc3 with everyone forced to Reforged. Being gentle and polite to them was pointless i guess. They didnt care enough to do it right, even tho they easily could(look at War3HD done by DragonFly for Starcraft II as a sidejob for porting wc3 assets to it; and in regards of rest of the game -> Starcraft Remastered)
 
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Playing in Reforged graphics I've noticed a few things.

1) The new models do grow on you and you do learn to identify most of them quite easily.

2)This doesn't apply to a lot of the unit/building icons with some being too generic to tell what unit is meant to be for (esecially High/Blood Elven units)

3) The biggest problem with air units isn't their models but their animations they all hold themselves the same way, kinda arched with their tails hanging down compared to original warcraft 3 where wind riders and dragonhawks had very flat profiles compared to now.
 
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I strongly disagree with all this. If there was any good, relevant change that we can congratulate Blizzard, it was precisely in the realism and greater humanism of the models. Some things were out of proportion to reality, an example of Footman's shoulder pads. But it's all part of the fantasy and I applaud Blizzard and his stylists Reforged, as humans and orcs mainly, were very good in relation to the terrible classic quality. In the classic only Undead and NE had some quality.
I was extremely sad to see that they modified the first version of Footman Reforged, because for me it was much better, this time they modified the shield and lowered the size of the shoulder pads. I would like to know if anyone can get the initial Footman Reforged model like the one in this image below??

Thnk you.
 

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deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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I strongly disagree with all this. If there was any good, relevant change that we can congratulate Blizzard, it was precisely in the realism and greater humanism of the models. Some things were out of proportion to reality, an example of Footman's shoulder pads. But it's all part of the fantasy
The disproportionate look was even more part of the fantasy genre.
 
I strongly disagree with all this. If there was any good, relevant change that we can congratulate Blizzard, it was precisely in the realism and greater humanism of the models. Some things were out of proportion to reality, an example of Footman's shoulder pads. But it's all part of the fantasy and I applaud Blizzard and his stylists Reforged, as humans and orcs mainly, were very good in relation to the terrible classic quality. In the classic only Undead and NE had some quality.
I was extremely sad to see that they modified the first version of Footman Reforged, because for me it was much better, this time they modified the shield and lowered the size of the shoulder pads. I would like to know if anyone can get the initial Footman Reforged model like the one in this image below??

Thnk you.
To each their own, but personally I find the art style of classic WC3 a big part of the charm. Of course, being such an old game, it's very low quality, but there are a lot of fanmade models around which have a modern level of detail but retain the classic art style.
The amount of polygons and the filesize of the Reforged is also far beyond the point of diminishing returns in terms of detail vs performance/size for an RTS imo.
 
I strongly disagree with all this. If there was any good, relevant change that we can congratulate Blizzard, it was precisely in the realism and greater humanism of the models. Some things were out of proportion to reality, an example of Footman's shoulder pads. But it's all part of the fantasy and I applaud Blizzard and his stylists Reforged, as humans and orcs mainly, were very good in relation to the terrible classic quality. In the classic only Undead and NE had some quality.
I was extremely sad to see that they modified the first version of Footman Reforged, because for me it was much better, this time they modified the shield and lowered the size of the shoulder pads. I would like to know if anyone can get the initial Footman Reforged model like the one in this image below??

Thnk you.

This message misses the whole point of Warcraft Franchise, Samwise Didier's stylised and 'absurd' art made the franchise what it is, if you take this soul from it, it becomes an empty shell like Reforged. A remaster to this title needs to follow the same rules of WCIII's style and Warcraft Franchise's style as a whole which Reforged fails too hard and this game is an rts, the higher poly count is not the thing that makes the game playable instead simple but eye catching details that makes the game playable so you know and say 'hey this is a footman' which in Reforged's case the shield of Footman from the demo had the most complaints out of people saw back then because it was basically not the thing you expect to see from 'The Footman'
 
I strongly disagree with all this. If there was any good, relevant change that we can congratulate Blizzard, it was precisely in the realism and greater humanism of the models. Some things were out of proportion to reality, an example of Footman's shoulder pads. But it's all part of the fantasy and I applaud Blizzard and his stylists Reforged, as humans and orcs mainly, were very good in relation to the terrible classic quality. In the classic only Undead and NE had some quality.
I was extremely sad to see that they modified the first version of Footman Reforged, because for me it was much better, this time they modified the shield and lowered the size of the shoulder pads. I would like to know if anyone can get the initial Footman Reforged model like the one in this image below??

Thnk you.

You deserve to be vanished from this reality , but first from this community. Shame on you for defending old footman.
New shield is the only and best part of footman , whos not a good model at all . Mongrel face at its best
 
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You deserve to be vanished from this reality , but first from this community. Shame on you for defending old footman.
New shield is the only and best part of footman , whos not a good model at all . Mongrel face at its best

My comrade. Are you criticizing a person for having a taste different from your taste? Would it be the same as me discussing with a friend what kind of pleasure or fetish is best with a woman? Lol
I agree with all of you that classic styling was very pleasant, but to the extent that it was pleasant, it was only subjected to these frowning shapes to account for the fact that Blizzard at the time did not have enough technical resources for better quality.
I believe that Reforged tried to get closer to reality and with a touch of stylism (example of Footman that I thought the Demo version was much better than the updated one). The differentiated shield and the large shoulder pads in the first Footman advertisements for Reforged, were much better and even today I am looking for that initial version that they announced, but that today do not provide us with the new patch 1.32.

However, Blizzard sinned a little just because it gave more realism in the proportions of the size of humans, which were previously in "flattened" proportions, as if they were crushed, but I didn't think it was bad, I also like realism mixed with reality, if the most demanded models are humans, why not try to make them in real proportions and keeping only their armor and other accessories in stylized formats?
 
They already had a perfect style template in WoW though IMO. It's more detailed and a bit more realistically proportioned, but still very close to WC3's original style. With some adjustments for an RTS, it would've been much better IMO, and since they clearly wanted to appeal to WoW players, it would've been the logical direction to take anyway.
 
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This message misses the whole point of Warcraft Franchise, Samwise Didier's stylised and 'absurd' art made the franchise what it is, if you take this soul from it, it becomes an empty shell like Reforged. A remaster to this title needs to follow the same rules of WCIII's style and Warcraft Franchise's style as a whole which Reforged fails too hard and this game is an rts, the higher poly count is not the thing that makes the game playable instead simple but eye catching details that makes the game playable so you know and say 'hey this is a footman' which in Reforged's case the shield of Footman from the demo had the most complaints out of people saw back then because it was basically not the thing you expect to see from 'The Footman'

Most people may even be used to the flattened shapes and coarse details. But who can guarantee that an innovative look will be a great tragedy? And mainly in relation to new players who will be experimenting for the first time. You are just experiencing new sensations. Criticizing this aesthetic is the same as criticizing the only really new thing that exists in Reforged, remove the innovation in the models and go back to the classic style, what do you have?
Just the "switch to classic" option in Reforged customizations. So click that button and be happy... brother.
Lololol
No one is forced to agree with your taste.
Have a good time!
 
Most people may even be used to the flattened shapes and coarse details. But who can guarantee that an innovative look will be a great tragedy? And mainly in relation to new players who will be experimenting for the first time. You are just experiencing new sensations. Criticizing this aesthetic is the same as criticizing the only really new thing that exists in Reforged, remove the innovation in the models and go back to the classic style, what do you have?
Just the "switch to classic" option in Reforged customizations. So click that button and be happy... brother.
Lololol
No one is forced to agree with your taste.
Have a good time!

It is not the same thing as 'switch to classic', I don't want classic I want an HD Warcraft III that is loyal to the franchise and not some mobile game graphics and realism which has no place in Warcraft franchise. People are asking for a remaster that looks like Warcraft, for referance see my avatar and\or mods that I'm working with.
 
They already had a perfect style template in WoW though IMO. It's more detailed and a bit more realistically proportioned, but still very close to WC3's original style. With some adjustments for an RTS, it would've been much better IMO, and since they clearly wanted to appeal to WoW players, it would've been the logical direction to take anyway.

I disagree I don't find WoW to be stylised enough to fit into Warcraft 3, Warcraft 3 needs its janky over beefed proportions to look like Warcraft imo.
 
Yeah the proportions should be exaggerated some more to translate the style into WC3 because it's an RTS, but other than that it's a pretty similar style.

I completely agree with this even though designs are not inline with Warcraft III, WoW has got the art style that is the same as Warcraft III but evolved into HD standards over time
 
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They already had a perfect style template in WoW though IMO. It's more detailed and a bit more realistically proportioned, but still very close to WC3's original style. With some adjustments for an RTS, it would've been much better IMO, and since they clearly wanted to appeal to WoW players, it would've been the logical direction to take anyway.
I think models from HOTS would fit perfectly for warcraft 3 remaster. Why did they bother to make new models when they could use this ones?
 

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I think models from HOTS would fit perfectly for warcraft 3 remaster. Why did they bother to make new models when they could use this ones?

I have noticed that HoTS seems to capture some of the Warcraft cartoony proportion styles a lot more. So I think they should've taken inspiration from that but tweaking some models, for example HoTS Jaina looks a little ridiculous with those pauldrons.
 
Most people may even be used to the flattened shapes and coarse details. But who can guarantee that an innovative look will be a great tragedy? And mainly in relation to new players who will be experimenting for the first time. You are just experiencing new sensations. Criticizing this aesthetic is the same as criticizing the only really new thing that exists in Reforged, remove the innovation in the models and go back to the classic style, what do you have?
Just the "switch to classic" option in Reforged customizations. So click that button and be happy... brother.
Lololol
No one is forced to agree with your taste.
Have a good time!

Having thin junky alike base body proportions with over bulked shoulder pads is worst thing that could happen to RTS. Looks like walking or flying armor on the map from rts perspective. There are ways to skip some dwarfy proportions but still not go thin junky ones too.

Even Lemonsky studio admitted whole game art was made for camera like wow and not wc3 . And theres so much proofs for it that are obvious

So, at the end this is not the matter of taste , it is basics , speaking of proportions or spamming and small details.
Its not art design question, where you want put your theory of relativity
 
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I think models from HOTS would fit perfectly for warcraft 3 remaster. Why did they bother to make new models when they could use this ones?
I don't agree so much partner. The Reforged models are from a 4K game, much more modern. The quality of the details is much higher.
The Reforged models are much more interesting than HOT's and I wouldn't trade them for anything ... After all, I only bought Reforged for the new models. The team that produced them is to be congratulated. Now ... if you disregard them, what additional features are so interesting ... Lol Lol
But I agree that HOT's can be an alternative form of models, after all, their quality fits perfectly. The problem is whether we will have mass conversions from HOT's to Reforged.
 
I don't agree so much partner. The Reforged models are from a 4K game, much more modern. The quality of the details is much higher.
The Reforged models are much more interesting than HOT's and I wouldn't trade them for anything ... After all, I only bought Reforged for the new models. The team that produced them is to be congratulated. Now ... if you disregard them, what additional features are so interesting ... Lol Lol
But I agree that HOT's can be an alternative form of models, after all, their quality fits perfectly. The problem is whether we will have mass conversions from HOT's to Reforged.

When we speak abou Reforged and other games we need seperate 1. design and style 2.textures - realistic or cartoon 3. proportions

People usualy fall on textures - realistic or cartoon and dont know explain.

Me however could go those textures (some textures are dirty as hell) if designs were better and closer to original, no spamming uneccesery details and having better rts fitting proportions , and ofc having better shaders.

Also metalness in reforged shine like a diamond on many models,specually gold parts. Specularity in hots give wetness , hm . Metalness was to supposed to produce some similar effect or be sort of derivate specifically for metal parts,as far as i know.
Its weird how desired feature ended up not working well

Reforged could have been succsesfull game, but it ended bad. Also texturing work is generally incosistant , its a product of too many freelancers not controled and organise d well.

Too much models having unfriendly wc3 designs, and many of them doesnt have the fitting style even for blizzard games.

Bad body base proportions is a common thing, along with spamming nonsense details for rts game.

Design is main issue here , and its something that is objective.
 
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From a game design point of view I can tell the models / textures do not fit a RTS game.
  • There is not enough teamcolored parts
  • Units are hard to differentiate from afar (too realistic, too many details, less shape differences than before)
  • Their file size is too big leading to lags / freeze (even on end-game computer) or just really long loading time
  • Lighting and post-process make the same unit too different from a light scenario to another
  • Shaders are bugged leading to differences of rendering between map development and map play
  • Too many details glow too much, luring the eye from what's important, whether it'd be emissive or metal materials
Now I must admit, I'm happy we have new models and I'm enjoying the new look overall. It seems fancier to me. Despite all these flaws. I would have loved to have great models with the same RTS sense they had before though.
 
Level 11
Joined
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314
When we speak abou Reforged and other games we need seperate 1. design and style 2.textures - realistic or cartoon 3. proportions
People usualy fall on textures - realistic or cartoon and dont know explain.
Me however could go those textures (some textures are dirty as hell) if designs were better and closer to original, no spamming uneccesery details and having better rts fitting proportions , and ofc having better shaders.
.
I realize that if they sought realism, they achieved this successfully, either in the resolution of textures or in the design of the models.
I was looking for that and Blizzard responded as it should!
Now I believe that Reforged needed to exaggerate the brightness of the lighting due to the rendering being of a very bad quality, in a forced attempt to compensate for something.
I agree with a good part of what you defend, but in the end I believe that the new theme was reasonably accepted by the majority, although tastes always diverge.
All in all, I believe that our fight with Blizzard would be more for the graphics engine to be extremely heavy even for medium computers in the face of a graphic quality in environmental effects in general that does not justify being extremely heavy for medium and weak computers.

Goffterdom,
I think the Reforged models do fit the RTS style of warcraft for most types of maps. I used to think like you did, but after a while I realized that "Zoom In" makes sense to get the camera closer in many moments of battles. In fact, I found it until recently, it could even be bigger, because I use the "Mod Tiny", I really wanted to zoom in even more with the scroll mouse ... As Warcraft is not a BFME2. You have reduced armies and more specific units of great powers, it is profitable for you to have an approximation of realism at various times.
I just insist that the biggest problem is knowing the right dosage for lighting and demand Blizzard for Patch's that make the Reforged even lighter. I think there is something wrong with this graphics engine, Reforged works with a reasonable quality, it doesn't even compare to the renders of modern games, but it demands too much from computers unnecessarily.
 
Last edited:
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745
My final two cents on Reforgeds visual overhaul :p

• Chapter 1:

I actually realize how to express myself exactly the way i wanted.

Warcraft 3's vanilla visuals supports the artist expressing how a model PERFECTLY looks without the game engine getting in the way of that with its lightning.

So if the artist paints metal glow on a shoulderpad of a Footman it will remain there forever with no interference, so how good the model looks is how good the author drew its texture and wrapped it perfectly like a gift around the model.

This is untapped art potential right here, and instead of Reforged expanding on this. they make a system in which first the models look objectively worse without the ingame settings, then they look worse or good depending on the ever changing lightning reflected upon them in an RTS game that is meant to keep visual integrity and not suffer massive framerate problems with numbers on the screen.

This perfectly in a nutshell represents how i feel about the new visual overhaul and how it impacted the game. and i'm soo happy i finally managed to bring this into words. i wasn't able to due to the lack of understanding how to express what was on my mind.

• Chapter 2:

Reforged feels like a visual outcast.
It is visually incompatible in Blizzard Games categories.
It doesn't belong in Warcraft 3. it doesn't belong in WoW it doesn't belong in Hots. it doesn't belong in Diablo nor Starcraft, i don't know where it belongs honestly. where am i meant to put this in ?
Overwatch is more stylish cartoony then Reforged.
Where in the Blizzard game category is Reforged suppose to be in terms of visuals?


If Reforged was meant to bring new visuals we were meant to accept but have a choice to ignore then why do it to a game (Warcraft III) with an existing visuals that is tied to how other Blizzard visuals also looks.

Classic Mode is not a justification for this action, because it is not much to ask for Blizzard to simply follow a more faithful overhaul as an upgrade.

Just make Reforgeds its entirely different thing or make a new sequel, then remaster Warcraft 3 like how Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition and Starcraft 1 and C&C Remaster is.

Could it possibly be that Reforged visuals alone couldn't save them enough money so that they needed to leach and ruin Warcraft 3 just so this.... abomination could be born ? (Foods of all kind for thought, Tarts, Cakes, Roasted Chicken, Pasta with meatballs, you name it)

• Chapter 3:

I realize there are those who love the new visuals and were invited to this game because of the advertised visuals, its a matter of opinion that who thinks if traditional Blizzard art looks better. or this new take on an existing old game.

Just know that, Blizzard didn't even deliver on the promise they gave to these new subset of people anyway, since if we're talking about a new take then the 2018 visuals were better for that then the current one. because the current one is trying to cater to traditional Blizzard art. aka stylized cartoony art. but its failing horribly at it. so Blizzards new visual overhaul is completely the opposite of how their other games look. and it isn't even trying to push its own look so its betraying the new audience they found because of the new visuals since they heavily rolled back on the more realistic and gritty looks since 2018.

• Chapter 4

Also would like to say something about the difference of how the art looks and how its transitioned into gameplay. in this regard i stand fully with how Vanilla Warcraft 3 looks, everyone does like to agree that the game seems to have "exaggerated" parts, well yes and no. the exaggeration is much more heavily emphasized in WoW and Hots compared to Warcraft 3 Vanilla (Which is what i personally support).

There are examples of faithful art done by Andre Kent over at ArtStation. i especially love his Footman.
<GloriousFootman.PNG>

You can see aside from the chest being cloth (most likely due to it not being the main part of this specific work he was trying to do) there is no such thing as exaggerated Shoulderpads. And the way in which it manages to perfectly modernize the original concept of the INGAME model is really dare i say... orgasmic.

Also in one aspect Reforged fails to adapt traditional art, is realistic proportion sizes of body parts, yet a bit too much blown out of proportion armor parts. Like how the original Human Paladins body was very beefy same so in artworks of it, yet the armor was tuned down and the cloth parts over it helped both for detecting the models team color and also showing a more humble look for the model, while the new one aside from the head is tuned down body parts but blown out of proportion armor size and detail.

So in conclusion my personal position on the visual overhaul is somewhere in between the simplistic details and faithful proportion sizes of the original games ingame models (Big or Small) and the lightning and graphics engine of the Heros of the Storm. since i hate unnecessary minor details on models of an RTS game that doesn't need to be there. (not to take simpler details as a meaning of lesser quality of set details)

The least one can say about the visual overhaul plan over this project is: Very Confusing. or Without any set in stone goal.

• Bonus:

This is Thralls ingame Reforged model, simply dismounted by a Retera. (The Shorka)

<Thrall HD.PNG>

This is the same model, but its not ingame and is not using the ingame lightning and graphics that it is soo dependent on.

<Thrall HD Model.PNG>

This is a fan made Thrall model that is not "HD". (Made by Traggey)

<Thrall Classic Graphics.png>

^^^ This model looks exactly like this both ingame or outside of the game through a model viewer.

Its what i like to call the art of ageless graphics. but Reforgeds realistic take is going to age much worse. its going to be extremely average visuals in a year or 2. because Blizzard failed to transition their ageless graphics standards and channel it unto the new project.

In any case, thanks for reading.
 
My final two cents on Reforgeds visual overhaul :p

• Chapter 1:

I actually realize how to express myself exactly the way i wanted.

Warcraft 3's vanilla visuals supports the artist expressing how a model PERFECTLY looks without the game engine getting in the way of that with its lightning.

So if the artist paints metal glow on a shoulderpad of a Footman it will remain there forever with no interference, so how good the model looks is how good the author drew its texture and wrapped it perfectly like a gift around the model.

This is untapped art potential right here, and instead of Reforged expanding on this. they make a system in which first the models look objectively worse without the ingame settings, then they look worse or good depending on the ever changing lightning reflected upon them in an RTS game that is meant to keep visual integrity and not suffer massive framerate problems with numbers on the screen.

This perfectly in a nutshell represents how i feel about the new visual overhaul and how it impacted the game. and i'm soo happy i finally managed to bring this into words. i wasn't able to due to the lack of understanding how to express what was on my mind.

• Chapter 2:

Reforged feels like a visual outcast.
It is visually incompatible in Blizzard Games categories.
It doesn't belong in Warcraft 3. it doesn't belong in WoW it doesn't belong in Hots. it doesn't belong in Diablo nor Starcraft, i don't know where it belongs honestly. where am i meant to put this in ?
Overwatch is more stylish cartoony then Reforged.
Where in the Blizzard game category is Reforged suppose to be in terms of visuals?


If Reforged was meant to bring new visuals we were meant to accept but have a choice to ignore then why do it to a game (Warcraft III) with an existing visuals that is tied to how other Blizzard visuals also looks.

Classic Mode is not a justification for this action, because it is not much to ask for Blizzard to simply follow a more faithful overhaul as an upgrade.

Just make Reforgeds its entirely different thing or make a new sequel, then remaster Warcraft 3 like how Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition and Starcraft 1 and C&C Remaster is.

Could it possibly be that Reforged visuals alone couldn't save them enough money so that they needed to leach and ruin Warcraft 3 just so this.... abomination could be born ? (Foods of all kind for thought, Tarts, Cakes, Roasted Chicken, Pasta with meatballs, you name it)

• Chapter 3:

I realize there are those who love the new visuals and were invited to this game because of the advertised visuals, its a matter of opinion that who thinks if traditional Blizzard art looks better. or this new take on an existing old game.

Just know that, Blizzard didn't even deliver on the promise they gave to these new subset of people anyway, since if we're talking about a new take then the 2018 visuals were better for that then the current one. because the current one is trying to cater to traditional Blizzard art. aka stylized cartoony art. but its failing horribly at it. so Blizzards new visual overhaul is completely the opposite of how their other games look. and it isn't even trying to push its own look so its betraying the new audience they found because of the new visuals since they heavily rolled back on the more realistic and gritty looks since 2018.

• Chapter 4

Also would like to say something about the difference of how the art looks and how its transitioned into gameplay. in this regard i stand fully with how Vanilla Warcraft 3 looks, everyone does like to agree that the game seems to have "exaggerated" parts, well yes and no. the exaggeration is much more heavily emphasized in WoW and Hots compared to Warcraft 3 Vanilla (Which is what i personally support).

There are examples of faithful art done by Andre Kent over at ArtStation. i especially love his Footman.
<GloriousFootman.PNG>

You can see aside from the chest being cloth (most likely due to it not being the main part of this specific work he was trying to do) there is no such thing as exaggerated Shoulderpads. And the way in which it manages to perfectly modernize the original concept of the INGAME model is really dare i say... orgasmic.

Also in one aspect Reforged fails to adapt traditional art, is realistic proportion sizes of body parts, yet a bit too much blown out of proportion armor parts. Like how the original Human Paladins body was very beefy same so in artworks of it, yet the armor was tuned down and the cloth parts over it helped both for detecting the models team color and also showing a more humble look for the model, while the new one aside from the head is tuned down body parts but blown out of proportion armor size and detail.

So in conclusion my personal position on the visual overhaul is somewhere in between the simplistic details and faithful proportion sizes of the original games ingame models (Big or Small) and the lightning and graphics engine of the Heros of the Storm. since i hate unnecessary minor details on models of an RTS game that doesn't need to be there. (not to take simpler details as a meaning of lesser quality of set details)

The least one can say about the visual overhaul plan over this project is: Very Confusing. or Without any set in stone goal.

• Bonus:

This is Thralls ingame Reforged model, simply dismounted by a Retera. (The Shorka)

<Thrall HD.PNG>

This is the same model, but its not ingame and is not using the ingame lightning and graphics that it is soo dependent on.

<Thrall HD Model.PNG>

This is a fan made Thrall model that is not "HD". (Made by Traggey)

<Thrall Classic Graphics.png>

^^^ This model looks exactly like this both ingame or outside of the game through a model viewer.

Its what i like to call the art of ageless graphics. but Reforgeds realistic take is going to age much worse. its going to be extremely average visuals in a year or 2. because Blizzard failed to transition their ageless graphics standards and channel it unto the new project.

In any case, thanks for reading.


Just to add one more thing, the model can be both hd and look great inside or outside of the game too by keeping the art style Warcraft universe have and being properly made: https://trello-attachments.s3.amazo...53/4f021f1ecec725097e304b6be043eb52/image.png
 
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