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Warcraft III - Patch 1.30.2

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by StoPCampinGn00b, Dec 1, 2018.

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  1. mori

    mori

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    I think it's pretty silly to get upset over people not wanting a feature removed. What purpose does removing LAN serve, even? It was a feature of the game at launch, an intended feature, and seeing it suddenly break is not a good sign, and definitely not a good enough reason to remove it altogether.

    There are reasons beyond "crappy internet" to have LAN as a feature:

    1) LAN parties. If I just want to hang out with my pals and play warcraft on a local network, why shouldn't I be able to do so anymore? B.Net, especially nowadays, introduces a lot of extra overhead - you are basically at the mercy of Blizzard and their proxy servers. Even in good conditions, you are likely to have at least 50-100 ms ping on a local network, using B.Net, because all the traffic is routed through Blizzard's proxy servers for their implementation of port-less hosting. Why do I need that overhead, if all my pals are literally on the same network as I am? What if there are problems with B.Net, as there are now? What if, ten years down the line, Blizzard decides they are bored with Warcraft 3 and finally shut down all the servers? Having LAN as an option ensures the longevity of the game, even after support for it ends completely. Let's not debate whether or not that will happen, having LAN as a working option literally has no drawbacks vs not having it.

    2) Local testing with multiple sessions. This was a big deal for me when I was working on some libraries that were prone to causing desyncs if mishandled, and identifying sources of desync. My setup was to use several VMs all running Warcraft 3 at once, and connecting to a single lobby through LAN. In the absence of being able to launch multiple clients otherwise, this was the only option I had - and it still is. If LAN goes away, it means I (and for that matter, anyone else using similar methods) cannot test for desyncs anymore without having to find people to bug-test with me (which can be tedious, requires a dedication from another person, not to mention that B.Net itself is still unstable).

    3) What is the freaking point in removing it anyway? It worked fine before, why shouldn't it work nowadays? It was an expected feature, and still is, for many people. If we start removing features that few people use, where do we draw the line? Should we break old maps, that nobody plays anymore? Should we remove the campaign, because everyone has already completed it and doesn't play it? Should we remove B.Net clans because other methods of organizing and communication have superseded them in the modern era? These are far-fetched examples, but they all stem from the same rationale. Drawing the line at LAN but no further seems rather arbitrary to me.
     
  2. pyf

    pyf

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  3. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Then use your phone as a hotspot, leech from a free wifi. (Unless the entire city is without internet)
    If there is a will there is a way.

    By the way, I do not want LAN removed.
    The reason I argue is because there was a mention of the game requiring internet to start, as in initial authentication.
    And I think the "I have a shitty internet plz don't do this" complaint was BS since you need internet for 1 second for the inital login and then you're done.

    As long as you've logged in once on your battle.net launcher you can start the SC2 editor from the launcher even if you are currently offline. To my knowledge, the editor does not shut down if you DC.
    Other games can be launched too though the game brings you to its specific login instead since they are internet based.

    edit: made sure to test it.

    I can open the editor without internet, but I cannot play the game. So I guess modding should be viable offline.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  4. mori

    mori

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    I think the typical (and most correct) solution in this case is to do the authentication once, upon installation, and to store the result of that authentication for subsequent launches, much like how Steam does that. Though, I am not here to debate that, and neither was my post in direct response to you, rather just the general mood here that some people introduced of removing LAN. Maybe I misread.

    In any rate, the "verify on launch" method has garnered it's own share of drama over the years in different launchers and DRM schemes, and I think it's a dead horse at this point. Either way, it's not up for us to decide how that works, unfortunately.
     
  5. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Modding without testing ingame, you mean?
    That is BS and you know it.
     
  6. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    No.
    You can test maps from the editor. But launching the game normally requires a login.
     
  7. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    I cannot test campaign maps from the editor because WC cannot load campaign data that way.
     
  8. Sieben

    Sieben

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    I can't speak on everyone's behalf, but I encountered absence of internet multiple times (remote place in the countryside, no internet, no mobile) when not at home for several weeks, and it was in 2018, in France, not in the 90's or in Uganda. If I had been required to log in, I wouldn't have been able to launch the game at all.
    I think it's pretty safe to assert that some people might be in the same position sometimes, especially in some parts of the world. Allowing them to enjoy the game offline is not asking too much, whether it is for testing maps, playing on LAN or whatever. Since an authentification shouldn't be vital for this, I don't really see the point of arguing :p
     
  9. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I did not do any in depth testing, but single maps seemed to work.
    A shame about the campaigns.

    Maybe reforge has a better system than sc2 (or worse), can't say.

    edit:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    just a joke btw
     
  10. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Yes, @Chaosy, we get it, you always have perfect internet.
    The only way you could make that more obvious is by writing "MY INTERNET IS ALWAYS PERFECT!" every post. :p

    Not everyone, neither in Europe nor anywhere else, has that luxury.
    It is getting repetitive to see you write that. ;)
     
  11. pyf

    pyf

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  12. MOS_19D4GB4PL

    MOS_19D4GB4PL

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    So Blizzard decided to screw up LAN (don't get me started on installing useless software like Bonjour and not even explaining why) because... of no good reason and the only alternative is deciding to not to play it at all?
    If Blizzard decides I need to pay monthly for BNet access, is it fine for me to be able to choose either to be harassed or to stop playing the game? This makes no sense.
    LAN was in the game and there are no reasons to remove it.
    In fact it is useful as long as someone finds a use.
    •Playing with friends in the same building is more reliable that way as Blizzard's servers are not top notch.
    •LAN gives ability to play custom maps which forbid singleplayer due to cheat protection.
    •Again, playing multiplayer maps solo without wasting time on logging into BNet (after years it get's trully annoying).

    I don't see LAN removal as a practical anti-piracy action. Those folks can still find workarounds and as usual, such changes hit only the actual community.

    If LAN is to be removed just because it's not needed... why do even bother? No one is forced to use it, it doesn't harm anyone, instead it suits some people.
     
  13. Radicool

    Radicool

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    Why keep LAN and offline mode?

    - Lower latency. This is hugely useful for those of us in the Oceania region where Blizzard don't have nearby servers.
    - Allows playing over poor or no Internet connection. I play sometimes on long car trips or when I'm out in the country, the latter with friends.
    - CD key sharing. Allows me to play with my brothers and friends without buying 4-8 copies of the game (or convincing them to pay for it). Not sure if this is allowed or not but I doubt I'll convince everyone to buy their own copy so we can play together. I might not buy Reforged if I can't play with them.
    - Provides long term security. I doubt Blizzard will fall victim to this, but there are numerous other games which rely on servers. Sometimes when the community dies or the game isn't popular enough, the servers can decommission which makes the game unplayable.
    - Provides reliability. Servers sometimes experience downtime. LAN allows us to play anyway.

    I'm reluctant to buy some of the new games these days which offer no true offline and LAN support.
     
  14. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Currently I have fiber which gives me 10 mb/s download speed and roughly 30 ping.
    Half a year ago I was rocking 800 kb/s with 60-80 ping, which is far from impressive. However, yes it was rather stable.

    The most popular games have multiplayer elements, I reckon Fortnite is the most popular one at this point in time.
    Do people play Fortnite with 9999 ping that crash every 3 seconds?
    I do not think it is the minority of today's society that have stable internet.

    Unless you want to argue that the wc3 playerbase is completely different. Which I can neither prove or disprove.
    There is an internet speed post thread however, if that is anything to go by people have good internet.

    Not that speed matters for this. You can probably get away with 100 kb/s and 500 ms without much annoyance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  15. Dat-C3

    Dat-C3

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    LAN is still very useful for many reasons, one not provided currently would be singleplayer without cheats though thanks to CE and easily accessible public knowledge of mpq files kind of cancels this out for anyone wanting to bypass this. Currently there is no "pirate" server for 1.30.2 and likely won't be so it is effectively pointless removing LAN and only hits players that should be cared about.
     
  16. pyf

    pyf

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    Let's find out for Sweden, shall we:
    Fortnite fel? Aktuella fel, störningar och problem | Downdetector

    ... and for general comparison purposes:
    Statusöversikt | Downdetector
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  17. SpiritTauren

    SpiritTauren

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    Does any1 know if Blizzard fixed "wait" and its leaks in this patch? (asking for singleplayer). (I know about timers, but why complicate life if there's an easier option at hand?)
     
  18. Lord_Earthfire

    Lord_Earthfire

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    Which things leaked with waits? As far as i know most of the things that needed fixing with the wait functions were in front of the pc and not in the editor...
    Normally when you shadow your globals or use locals the wait function had no really issues with leaks. At least none i'm aware of.
     
  19. Barade

    Barade

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    I have hosted several private melee games with a friend and always selected random race but in 90 % of the games I get Undead.
    This cannot be random.
    In the Slalom 8 player map, the opponents start next to our bases when playing 2 vs 2.
    This is quite annoying, they should start at the other end of the map?
     
  20. MOS_19D4GB4PL

    MOS_19D4GB4PL

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    Actually, this can be random, it's just very very very unlikely xD
     
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