Warcraft 3 Reforged

deepstrasz

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The Broken Isles look very different than the Warcraft 3 island ruins. Suramar is completely different from what they had in Legion, and I'm torn between them remastering Warcraft 3 ruins tileset or remastering it to look like WoW. The Vault of the Wardens in Legion has its own style too, and I think this aesthetic would fit better than the generic jail tileset they used. I think it's a disservice to a remaster if they just upressed the jail tileset without making it look like the actual Vault of the Wardens.
I think many current Warcraft III tilesets are just combinations of more. Some are totally different but many could just be replaced with (these) new ones.
 
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Thinking about how they're approaching Culling of Stratholme, it's going to be pretty interesting how they might approach certain tilesets. Culling in WoW generally looks like the same Warcraft 3 tileset, but there's a lot of places we've seen in WoW that are completely different.

The Broken Isles look very different than the Warcraft 3 island ruins. Suramar is completely different from what they had in Legion, and I'm torn between them remastering Warcraft 3 ruins tileset or remastering it to look like WoW. The Vault of the Wardens in Legion has its own style too, and I think this aesthetic would fit better than the generic jail tileset they used. I think it's a disservice to a remaster if they just upressed the jail tileset without making it look like the actual Vault of the Wardens.
It is best to hope they don't change Sunken Ruins to WoW's new nonsense one...
 
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If you can switch back to the old style or if MDLX models, old maps and everything still works there is no reason to use the old Warcraft III or are you talking about the classic mode which you can switch back to?

Not sure what you mean with old as opposed to classic. To get the local changes of Reforged, you have to buy it. And, of course, someone might prefer the old style and therefore revert. Blizzard indicated you will just have to flip a switch in graphics options, so maybe you will even be able to do it midgame. I would find it funny/interesting to compare them.
 
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Hey i think wc3 sunken ruins is awesome .Tiles that are unique and iconic, and should be faitfull to original at least 99,99% are :

Sunken Ruins Large Bricks,Small Bricks and Round tiles, North Ice (Most epic tileset ever), Blight ground (for undead ,Most epic tileset ever) , Barrens Cracks, and Barrens Cliff -most epic and unique !!!

I also like very much : Cave/Underground crack bricks and lava cracks,Outland Flatstones and Rough Dirt, Ashenvale/Lord rock and ashen leaves i hope they rmk it very awesome.
 
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From all of the Wc3 RoC campaign missions they had to show us the most boring one.
My god that mission was so fucking bad and boring.

I hope that all the things they showed us are pre-alpha and rushed. I think they just wanted to show us something.
Arthas glued hair lol.
 
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3) GAMEPLAY

As much as I love Warcraft 3 for years and years up to this day and forth, there is one part of the gameplay that just... sucks

The UPKEEP TAX thing... seriously, they MUST REMOVE THE UPKEEP GOLD TAX thing in the gameplay...

In Warcraft 2, upgrading the town halls gives the increasing effect of gold, lumber and oil collection BUT...
In Warcraft 3 it became quite the opposite, and it seriously discourages and limits many players to build large armies for epic large scale war battles...
And THAT SUCKS.

In most cases of gameplays within the limit of only 100 food population in TFT (90 for RoC), its kinda bit of a bummer that 1/4 or 1/3 of that population already goes to workers, instead of warriors being summoned...

Yeah, Blizzard should REMOVE THE UPKEEP GOLD TAX thing for the gameplay of Warcraft 3:Reforged



4) SKILLS/ABILITIES ANIMATIONS


Some animations from Warcraft 3 skills are so good that it should be as the same of how must it appear in Reforged (only in better graphics, of course), while some animations of abilities in WC3 needs to be changed in Reforge.

Examples:

Illidan/Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis skill animation SHOULD BE JUST HOW IT IS in Warcraft 3, with the cool dark energy ball morph thing, and that awesome growl voice within it upon transforming to and from A BLACK SEMI-FIERY DEMON FORM... THAT SHOULD STAY THE SAME as the animation for Metamorphosis in WC3: Reforged.
And NOT like the lame Metamorphosis animation of DH in WoW, where DH simply jumps and instantly poof! demon form! tadaa! LOL


Grom/Blademaster's Bladestorm skill SHOULD BE CHANGED however in WC3:Reforged from how it was in Warcraft 3... They should use the cool looking animation of the Bladestorm in Heroes of the Storm, instead of retaining the old beyblade bladestorm animation in WC3.
 
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Blizzard should take at look how other developers made/are making awesome remasters:
ex.:
Crash N. Sane Trilogy (everything is same as in original but made from 0 with higher quality)
Spyro Reignited Trylogy or MediEvil.

That's how you make remasters IMO.
screen-shot-2017-06-28-at-20048-pm-1498683956782_270h.png

Spyro-Reignited-Trilogy-comparison-shots.jpg

small_860273386.jpg


Everything is just redone in HQ.

For now here's my Wc3R model rating:
Peasant: 4/5
Militia: 4/5
Footman: 1/5
Rifleman: 5/5
Knight: 3/5
Jania: 5/5
Arthas: 2/5
Uther: 3/5
Grunt: 5/5
Dradlord: 2/5
Ghoul: 1/5
Abo: 4/5
 
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I just hope and pray that the "Classic" Team of Blizzard is not called classic for nothing...

Warcraft 3: Reforged is a remaster of Warcraft 3. A Warcraft game, NOT a WoW game, and NOT a Hearthstone game either.

Warcraft is not WoW, and WoW is not Warcraft. And that's that...

Out of everyone's concerns and feedbacks with regards to the aspects of the game; designs of character models, armors, or weapons of certain units, the gameplay, the controls, the map making editor, and most important of all, the lore/story...

I just wish that WC3: Reforged will STAY TRUE in the majority of its aspects as it is in the original Warcraft 3, especially the lore/story.

Veteran Warcraft 1, 2, 3 fans, such as myself, who dreamed of a Warcraft 4 all these years didnt got it, but instead we have this remaster of WC3.
Its all cool... so long as the word REFORGED term is indeed a REMASTER of the Warcraft 3 game,
and NOT as "Retcon = Ruin Warcraft 3 just to fit it with WoW" game.

Dont know if these feedbacks will even be read by the Blizzard guys who are developing Reforged or if they will even care, but I hope they do, at least...
 
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Guys, relax. The fact that we're getting a remaster of a 16-year-old RTS game is a small miracle in itself. Let Blizzard do their jobs and don't crucify them before you've seen the product. Everything you've seen so far is early alpha. A lot can change before release, and even if you don't like what it ends up becoming there's nothing to stop you from just playing the old game. Enough with the entitlement already.
 

deepstrasz

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Guys, relax. The fact that we're getting a remaster of a 16-year-old RTS game is a small miracle in itself. Let Blizzard do their jobs and don't crucify them before you've seen the product. Everything you've seen so far is early alpha. A lot can change before release, and even if you don't like what it ends up becoming there's nothing to stop you from just playing the old game. Enough with the entitlement already.
You realize, it's the fans that kept this game alive for so many years.
 
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You realize, it's the fans that kept this game alive for so many years.

I never claimed otherwise. I've been part of the WC3 modding scene for over 14 years, I know what the fans have done for this game. I still think people could voice their concerns and feedback in a less entitled manner. We're not "owed" this. Blizzard didn't have to remaster their classics. They could just as well have spent their resources developing new IPs, but they've chosen to remaster the old games that we know and love. I would think that this would be met with more enthusiasm than we've seen here.
 
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You realize, it's the fans that kept this game alive for so many years.

I mean that is a fact for sure but it is just toxicity people even wants to stop Blizzard from making HD models (so trying to make them abandon the project because the reason for 'remake' is having nice graphics) , they wont do everything as everyone wished , but I'm kinda sure they'll check feedback and I'm sure they won't go crazy with retcons\concept changes both lorewise and visually
 

deepstrasz

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I never claimed otherwise. I still think people could voice their concerns and feedback in a less entitled manner. We're not "owed" this. Blizzard didn't have to remaster their classics. They could just as well have spent their resources developing new IPs, but they've chosen to remaster the old games that we know and love. I would think that this would be met with more enthusiasm than we've seen here.
I mean that is a fact for sure but it is just toxicity people even wants to stop Blizzard from making HD models (so trying to make them abandon the project because the reason for 'remake' is having nice graphics) , they wont do everything as everyone wished , but I'm kinda sure they'll check feedback and I'm sure they won't go crazy with retcons\concept changes both lorewise and visually
I feel sorry for the ill-mannered. We always have to find common ground. That's why we discuss in the first place. Frankly, they would not have did any remaking if this hadn't been a trend with games and movies alike. It works, financially. Also, if the modding community wouldn't have been a thing, melee alone would not have saved it that much compared to South Korea's Brood War scene.
The point I'm making is that they should listen to the community and implement as much as they can into Reforged to make most people happy (from all camps).

So, we owe them for the game and they owe us for longevity.
 
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You realize, it's the fans that kept this game alive for so many years.

And Blizzard is acknowledging this. It's also okay if you don't like this remaster, but people should not put all that negative energy towards Blizzard. Give honest feedback, but saying Blizz will have the feedback in their ass.. is not very constructive.
 

deepstrasz

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And Blizzard is acknowledging this. It's also okay if you don't like this remaster, but people should not put all that negative energy towards Blizzard. Give honest feedback, but saying Blizz will have the feedback in their ass.. is not very constructive.
Why are you people acting like you're living in a utopia? You darn well know how this world works. People are of all sorts, sadly.
 
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Jeez… calm down. Have some respect for the developers.
I had big respect for Blizzard.
Lost it after release of SC2 and D3 (mostly cuz SC2 editor was so fucking shit and D3 was really a weird game (no pvp, candy graphics, fail with auction house). I hope they will show us that they can still make something awesome (that's why i preordered Wc3R).
~10 years ago. When you bought game made by Blizzard. You were sure that it will be epic. Now? Not rly.

People are just afraid that Wc3R will lose the heart and soul of real Warcraft 3.

And Blizzard is acknowledging this. It's also okay if you don't like this remaster, but people should not put all that negative energy towards Blizzard. Give honest feedback, but saying Blizz will have the feedback in their ass.. is not very constructive.
If they wont respond to our fears then what will it mean?
 
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The point I'm making is that they should listen to the community and implement as much as they can into Reforged to make most people happy (from all camps).

Sure. And they've stated, repeatedly, that they're interested in listening to the community. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't voice their opinions in a less childish and entitled manner.

So, we owe them for the game and they owe us for longevity.

Not really. They provided a product, we paid for said product. Nobody owes anybody anything. Sure, the fans increased the longevity of the game through modding, but Blizzard also provided support for the game well past its expiration date. It goes both ways.

Why are you people acting like you're living in a utopia? You darn well know how this world works. People are of all sorts, sadly.

So we should never call people out on anything? That kind of a sad world view.

People are just afraid that Wc3R will lose the heart and soul of real Warcraft 3.

Good thing you'll still have the real Warcraft 3 to play then.

If they wont respond to our fears then what will it mean?

Most likely it'll mean that much of the criticism that people provide isn't implementable because folks don't understand game development and what it entails.
 

deepstrasz

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"So we should never call people out on anything? That kind of a sad world view."
@Tauer

You saw the answer he gave afterward. Some people are really keen on their belief. It may take time to put them on the right path and doing so on such a thread is a waste of time and space.
 
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I had big respect for Blizzard.
Lost it after release of SC2 and D3 (mostly cuz SC2 editor was so fucking shit and D3 was really a weird game (no pvp, candy graphics, fail with auction house). I hope they will show us that they can still make something awesome (that's why i preordered Wc3R).
~10 years ago. When you bought game made by Blizzard. You were sure that it will be epic. Now? Not rly.

People are just afraid that Wc3R will lose the heart and soul of real Warcraft 3.


If they wont respond to our fears then what will it mean?

preach! blizzard most notably the WoW team lost my faith in listening to the community years ago when I abandoned their games.

One thing is certain they will have Micotransactions in WC3 selling skin packs like SC2. however the classic team is going above and beyond with their art specifically even having alternate male/ female versions most heroes it appears.
Who wants to play a female frumpy Mountain Queen?

I love RTS tho should this lead into a little Nova Covert ops additional campaigns being added. I'll Day 1 buy them since WC3R can't differ too much from the game it's being built to emulate.

Storywise it's the most iconic one.
And that's your opinion.

No one believes that considering the Final level where he takes up Frostmourn is in that Campaign.

____________________________________________________________________________________

biggest question is seeing illidan Demon resdeign.

Will he have go from having black tats and his stlish pants to some brown design with plain black horns and sickly green streaks all over his body instead and glowy ass eyes?
Will they Remove his Pandas and the entire design of his Glavies for Neon Green Warglaives?

A big departure will also be will they scrape the Lost Ones Draenei entire design for the Broken Draenei?

will they change the big ass Legion demon gates to steel and green ugly shit used in WoW instead of the awesome looking gates seen in first in Felwood?

There are plenty of changes they can do that will make the art disgusting. People have already mentioned how buildings are so SQUARE now in WC3R instead of looking natural

Will Archimonde have his long Purple cape or will they have him wearing simply his Armor Bikini?

Lots of WoW design choices that should stay the hell away from WC3 IMO.

Classic team Should Tread very carefully
 
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____________________________________________________________________________________

biggest question is seeing illidan Demon resdeign.

Will he have go from having black tats and his stlish pants to some brown design with plain black horns and sickly green streaks all over his body instead and glowy ass eyes?
Will they Remove his Pandas and the entire design of his Glavies for Neon Green Warglaives?

A big departure will also be will they scrape the Lost Ones Draenei entire design for the Broken Draenei?

will they change the big ass Legion demon gates to steel and green ugly shit used in WoW instead of the awesome looking gates seen in first in Felwood?

There are plenty of changes they can do that will make the art disgusting. People have already mentioned how buildings are so SQUARE now in WC3R instead of looking natural


Lots of WoW design choices that should stay the hell away from WC3 IMO.

Classic team Should Tread very carefully

I have to agree with you, and I'm kinda sure Illidan won't be in his full glory like he was in Wc3 but instead he will be that emo kid from WoW(sadly), I think they won't change demon gate designs etc it would be overkill, about Lost Ones if they change it I'll really be mad about it reason is simple: WoW too has no HD Lost Ones so I'm out of options but to use our mods kinda HD ones
 
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this is the example you should be looking at
Warcraft_III_Reforged_-_Female_demon_hunter_concept_art.jpeg


Female Demon hunter concept art
Team colors are going to be the Tattoos and metamorphasis well. Thats got a complete overhaul. Guess the Panda glaives are gone now.

Also there is confirmation that Reforged will not include the Old Campaigns. They keep saying there is a Graphics toggle.

Better hope WC3R isn't a download patch when you buy the game or its gonna be overwritting the old Campaign maps completely. Thats my biggest concern.

Good idea to archive the old campaigns as is on THE HIVE for custom play without that Co-OP nonsense if this is the direction the go.
 
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this is the example you should be looking at
Warcraft_III_Reforged_-_Female_demon_hunter_concept_art.jpeg


Female Demon hunter concept art
Team colors are going to be the Tattoos and metamorphasis well. Thats got a complete overhaul. Guess the Panda glaives are gone now.
This is for female though, I cant say they'll change male one (I hope so) what concerns me about this is the Demon Form I always hated how hots and WoW did it that old 'black' demon form was just something unique to me and I did not add those forms to my models even with all the fans asked them to be in the mod
 
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This is for female though, I cant say they'll change male one (I hope so) what concerns me about this is the Demon Form I always hated how hots and WoW did it that old 'black' demon form was just something unique to me and I did not add those forms to my models even with all the fans asked them to be in the mod

decisions like the Glaives and demon forms will likely be cross gender. So ugly ass glaives, Plain ass horns and old demon form removed. Count on it.

Better hope Illidans tats don't glow by Team color or his model will be ruined but I'm sure the classic team should have enough competence to notice that atleast and keep him his own thing.

I'm however quite pleased with Garithos. Team Color Seems a little overboard on the concept though.

Warcraft_III_Reforged_-_Garithos_concept_art.jpeg


Damn there is some serious saltiness going on here.
Not salty just concern. Things like doing a 180* on Draenie design are valid concerns where it's likely to go since they want to emulate WoW.

Suppose Fel Orcs are going to be spikey Orcs now. also
 
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deepstrasz

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Who wants to play a female frumpy Mountain Queen?
I don't but hey, fetishes satisfied, right?
No one believes that considering the Final level where he takes up Frostmourn is in that Campaign.
About that, I wonder how Muradin will not die since he's present in WoW. Talk about retcons....
And yes, the Culling of Stratholme is iconic because it's the first step of Arthas' downfall and the darkest event storywise where no one wanted to do the extreme thing and kill all infected so they won't be under the Scourge's control.
biggest question is seeing illidan Demon resdeign.
Blindfold on, please. Not talking about demon form though but also referring to his TfT version.
Will they Remove his Pandas and the entire design of his Glavies for Neon Green Warglaives?
Hopefully, they don't remove any Easter eggs.
A big departure will also be will they scrape the Lost Ones Draenei entire design for the Broken Draenei?
Let's hope they don't change but add.
Will Archimonde have his long Purple cape or will they have him wearing simply his Armor Bikini?
God, I hope they don't kill that. Also the green hue.
Also, hope that Kil'jaeden has no wings.
Team colors are going to be the Tattoos and metamorphasis well. Thats got a complete overhaul. Guess the Panda glaives are gone now.
No, even in the Reforged CoS gameplay video, Arthas and Mal'Ganis both have hero glow. That is iconic to Warcraft III.
About the demon hunter blades... I hope Illidan won't have them green like that...
Better hope WC3R isn't a download patch when you buy the game or its gonna be overwritting the old Campaign maps completely. Thats my biggest concern.
Not sure about that. I don't think so. I will however keep backups of course just in case anything goes wrong in general.
I bet Blizzard will make some design mistakes and the community will fix it.
That's gonna happen. But it won't be mistakes, it will just be WoW oriented.
 

Rui

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Feels good to be 14 again!
NEARBYHERMIT =D it feels good to have you back again!

If Blizzard wont react to community in 2-3 weeks then it will mean that they have our feedback in ass...
I LOVE THIS :grin: I friggin' missed some of that resolve and conviction from the good days of old! Show em like it is, @Whisper! :cgrin:
So exceedingly happy I wanna hug all of ya :ahug::ahug::ahug:
 
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NEARBYHERMIT =D it feels good to have you back again!


I LOVE THIS :grin: I friggin' missed some of that resolve and conviction from the good days of old! Show em like it is, @Whisper! :cgrin:
So exceedingly happy I wanna hug all of ya :ahug::ahug::ahug:

I'm glad to see you around these parts again, Rui. When I saw the Reforged announcement I immediately thought that Hive is gonna be teeming with oldheads.

After all, isn't Hive that good ol' place where we all gather to get a dose of the past?

Yes it is!
 
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5) Armor and Weapon designs

I hope the designs for REFORGED would remain closely the same as the designs of it in WC3. Majorly, the armor and weapons in WoW looks as if it were designed by a child. Seriously, majority of the weapon designs of WoW such as swords, axes, hammers, bow, guns etc. look more of like a child's toys rather than dangerously looking deadly weapons.


EXAMPLES:

Illidan's warglaives is a perfect example for weapons. The blades in Illidan's warglaives in WC3 looks like as if its a sharp deadly elvish silver steel blades that can cut you in half in an instant, (like the mystic blades of the elves in the LOTR/Hobbit movies)
meanwhile the design of Illidan's warglaives in WoW, looks like a cheaply looking version of a green double-edge lightsaber.

I know Illidan's/DH's warglaives in WC3 have panda faces in them (as JUST an easter egg joke), but even then, the WC3 warglaive designs, despite the panda face joke still looks more of as deadly weapons rather than the WoW Illidan's warglaives that looks like a child's toy sword.


Arthas' armor is a perfect example for armors as his armor designs is getting also a lot of hate in the internet, to no surprises at all.
Seriously, they are making Arthas' armor look like Varian's WoW armor, which sooooooooooo ridiculously looking in all these years in WoW.

Seriously, look at Varian in WoW. He looks like a freaking blue-boy Megaman with a weird glowing sword. Dont get me wrong, I do love Megaman in terms other games outside of Blizzard, but it just looks ridiculous having an armor worn to be as a reflection of a sci-fi blue boy Megaman in a medieval fantasy story game.


6) Demons

This may be a small thing for a detail but, I hope they retain the TAILS ON DEMONS.

Dreadlords, Pit Lords, Doom Guards, Hellhounds, Eredar Warlocks (such as Archimonde and Kil'jaeden themselves), etc; majority of the demons in WC3 have tails, making them look more of real scary beastly demons.

In a much better graphics, the demon designs of WC3 would mostly beat the design of the BALROG in the LOTR movie and probably even fit onto a horror supernatural movie.

In terms of a general appearance, it would be better if they retain the tails on demons as it would appear more closely as to what Satan himself would look like. Just pure scary looking, evil, and powerful creatures from the underworld.
 
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I'm glad to see you around these parts again, Rui. When I saw the Reforged announcement I immediately thought that Hive is gonna be teeming with oldheads.

After all, isn't Hive that good ol' place where we all gather to get a dose of the past?

Yes it is!

Seconded. Just hope to see even more old folks when it arrives next year, even if it will just be a temporary boost.
 
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Will we this time get the same quality client and features as Warcraft Netease is in China?? They get it free to play and 10 times client quality of us! Like WTF? Even if the reforged has half the qualities of Netease I'll pre-order this.

Please no. God no. Just. No.

For all that is holy Blizzard, do not attempt to monetize modding. It doesn't work. Look at what it did to the Elder Scrolls community. Modding should be something you do out of love for the game and sharing said love with others, it shouldn't be for fiscal reasons. Monetization will ruin the modding scene, guaranteed.
 
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Please no. God no. Just. No.

For all that is holy Blizzard, do not attempt to monetize modding. It doesn't work. Look at what it did to the Elder Scrolls community. Modding should be something you do out of love for the game and sharing said love with others, it shouldn't be for fiscal reasons. Monetization will ruin the modding scene, guaranteed.

True, also I found kinda nothing interesting in Netease ALSO FUN FACT: Netease is the company that makes Diablo:Immortal so they killed one game of Blizz already no need to kill Warcraft too
 
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Please no. God no. Just. No.

For all that is holy Blizzard, do not attempt to monetize modding. It doesn't work. Look at what it did to the Elder Scrolls community. Modding should be something you do out of love for the game and sharing said love with others, it shouldn't be for fiscal reasons. Monetization will ruin the modding scene, guaranteed.
It's not just monetization tho personally I'm fine with it as long as it's cosmetics. Pro modders deserve something for their work otherwise they outsource and kill the game (e.g Dota 2 and Icefroge and then Legion TD). Or they just don't bother updating maps. Netease is having a boom in player numbers and growth while here is kind of the land of the dead for custom maps.

Apart from that Netease has reconnect system, Custom map Ladder system (To make sure a guy with 1000 games of Dota is not matched with first timers, Ranked system for custom maps, Custom map server side hosting which has removed all possible map hackers and tons more mentioned in the linked thread.

Elder scrolls was just executed horribly and it's totally different with Warcraft 3. Elder scrolls you are selling mods which people actually need and meanwhile you had no oversight on it. In warcraft 3 all the maps (different games not MODS) are free to play, Who cares if the Mapper is selling cosmetics on it and people are happy to support him/her.

Sorry good maps take full days every day to work on and love from community helps but you can't live on that. If that was the case Icefrog would still be here and all the great maps would not have been outsourced to Steam leaving Warcraft 3 to die.

True, also I found kinda nothing interesting in Netease ALSO FUN FACT: Netease is the company that makes Diablo:Immortal so they killed one game of Blizz already no need to kill Warcraft too

Netease is half the size of Activision-blizzard, Sorry but it Was Blizzard's decision to kill it. The only reason they partnered in the making of this game was so they could copy paste one of Netease's already made game and reskin it.
 
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7) NIGHT ELF HERO MODELS

Tyrande/Priestess of the Moon:

In contrast to what the original model of the PotM looks like in WC3, I dearly hope they improve her model unit far better (her model, NOT the tiger).
The portrait of the PotM SHOULD BE THE FACE OF THE NIGHT ELF WOMAN, and NOT THE TIGER.

Tyrande/Priestess of the Moon is the one riding the tiger, right? and not the tiger itself.

Archmage and Far Seer are also both mounted heroes in WC3, but the emphasis are on the human mage and the orc shaman themselves, and not the horse and wolf... Why not do the same to the Night Elf Priestess in WC3?

I hope the TYRANDE / WOMAN NIGHT ELF PRIESTESS OF THE MOON gets done beautifully in WC3: Reforged.


Maiev/Warden:

I hope they retain the original model appearances of WC3 Maiev/Warden in REFORGED.

I dont really have much to say, but I really the original model of Warden in WC3 since you can see their mouths actually talking, with their helmet only reaching down to the nose,
and not like super duper overprotective Warden helmet armor in WoW that you cant even see her mouth talking (or even breathing properly at least), and it also makes her appear even more heavily armored than a footman.
 
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