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Warcraft 3 Reforged BETA

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by Archian, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. FeelsGoodMan

    FeelsGoodMan

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    Well most hosts adheres to the copyright laws and will take down unlawfully hosted material without a court order if they are sent a DMCA take down request, but yes, the real problems starts when the host refuses to take down the material. Then you would need a court order and wait for the local police to actually visit the company that owns the physical servers.
     
  2. Blarto

    Blarto

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    I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure how such a hypothetical case would play out, especially since there might be some clauses that MDX/MDL/BLP is a proprietary format and Blizzard reserves all the rights for its use, which makes this entire Netease+Blizzard relationship a giant shit-show for us Creators.

    (Defendant could argue Blizzard is hosting these and they are much bigger company, and they are not getting sued, and there are no TOS on the Art Asset stating that only Blizzard service can host them)

    Hell, look at Japanese MMD model files for example, virtually all of them come with license saying only MMD software can use these models for free. Can't say the same for stuff posted for Wc3 the Hive or elsewhere.
     
  3. FeelsGoodMan

    FeelsGoodMan

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    I'm not a model creator so it's hard to say if a mdx/mdl/blp file is reserved by Blizzard but I highly doubt that, as models are composed of stuff made in programs not related to Blizzard at all like 3ds max etc.

    In a normal case it would go like this:

    1 - A website owner decides to host pirated content.
    2 - Owner of said content sees it, and reports it to for example dmca.com.
    3 - dmca.com will then contact the website owners host and request that they take it down.
    4 - The host will contact the website owner and give him a deadline to take down the content. If the content is not taken down within the requested deadline the host will terminate the website owners services.

    In the event where the host doesn't reply to the take down requests there will be sent reminders regularly until eventually dmca.com files a court order. Neither the website owner or the content creator will attend the court, and the court will rule in favor of the content creator, and then the police will visit the address of the physical server.

    This is of course in a civilized country. In for example Bulgaria or The Seychelles (popular for DMCA ignored offshore hosts) the process of taking stuff like this to a court is so long, complicated and hard that it literally never happens. I have no idea how it would be in China.
     
  4. Blarto

    Blarto

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    There's a way for the Website Host/Owner to immediately contest the DMCA takedown request, which would then immediately require the Owner of the content to either dismiss the claim, or file a lawsuit. Furthermore, in the case of "no-dismiss-no-lawsuit", the Website Host/Owner can also file a counter-claim with the possibility of a lawsuit on the source of the DMCA takedown (the Owner of the content).

    Not sure, but I think that's how it works when there's an actual dispute and both parties refuse to budge.

    In any case, for Wc3 stuff, you'd have to prove damages, and virtually all of the content is hosted for free with no TOS, so the dice will probably roll in the Website Owner's favour.
     
  5. FeelsGoodMan

    FeelsGoodMan

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    The person requesting the take down will have to provide his/her copyright license which contains multiple samples of his/her work in various stages of development. This will serve as conclusive evidence that the one who requested the take down is indeed the rightful owner. A dispute will only do so much, but will ultimately be overruled in the face of evidence and proper licensing. It might buy the pirates some time, but not that much.
     
  6. Blarto

    Blarto

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    That's what I'm trying to stress here. No one here in the EU/US wc3 community posts any license with their work, save for Vexorian and a few others. So yeah.

    At-least Copy-paste a GPL (or the art equivalent to GPL), or SOMETHING. Or else your stuff will get inevitably used without Credit and you won't have any recourse.
     
  7. FeelsGoodMan

    FeelsGoodMan

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    We are talking about the same thing, if you read my first post I'm also saying that people should get a proper license :p
     
  8. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Copyleft - Wikipedia
     
  9. Abelhawk

    Abelhawk

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    So are those skins for heroes in multiplayer games? Like Jaina is an archmage, Fallen King Arthas is a death knight? Is it random? Can you choose which skins randomly show up when you hire heroes in multiplayer?
     
  10. tulee

    tulee

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    I was just watching videos of the beta being played. I am a loss for words at how disappointed I am. I don't really care about how the models look-- that is just an art style. What is seriously wrong is that almost none of the units are distinguishable from each other, with only for 3-4 exceptions (like the shadow hunter, with its gigantic glaive weapon).

    I feel really embarrassed for the classic team, since they have been looking at these models for 1.5 + years, and didn't bother to tell lemonsky that melee gameplay will be negatively affected because it is near impossible to tell units apart on the battlefield. Who knows, maybe Lemonsky didn't even realize there was anything wrong, since blizzard apparently never gave feedback to them. This would not have happened if they showed models early and could get feedback on the models in terms of distinguishability. I mean, Blizzard must have been partly aware, since feedback on the footman being indistinguishable from the knight in battle back in the 2018 beta was given. Again-- this has nothing to do with artistic style of reforged. This is purely related to the units becoming indistinguishable in a game (melee) where you need to be able to immediately locate where units are on the screen.

    Whoever was the Art director for classic team should have looked at how "classic" Warcraft 3 ensured distinguishability of units from a top-to-down perspective. The reforged model design will ensure the melee/ ladder aspect of the game is going to be ruined to an (significant) extent
     
  11. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Guess they thought it'd work the same way as StarCraft II.
     
  12. Rui

    Rui

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    @Blarto @FeelsGoodMan thanks for the interesting discussion.

    Yeah this seems like the only viable way. Though it would be nice to have a law expert see and comment on this. @YourArthas?
     
  13. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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  14. YourArthas

    YourArthas

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    Now I'll try to explain it with our law and probably basically it is same in Europe, now first of all we got a shared intellectual property on those stuff Blizzard owns a part of them because it's their format, we own our part this right include ,stoping people from publishing it and make benefit from it and especially this is an area I love working on just because my models got stolen I worked so hard on this copyright issues afterwards, now again if we are talking it in our law you can just request it by yourself or by a lawyer from the host or publisher, you need to prove that you made the thing first it is an issue but probably we can get past it even if we don't have a document we can use wip screens , show our similar work etc, to me it worked before atleast. Second issue is if someone earned money from our asset it means that we can get it , now in our law you can use 4 methods: you can try to prove the 'stealer' earned x amount of money , you can go an easier way and say he made me loss x a mount of money, or you can say I would have made x amount of money if I was selling it, or if you have proves you can say I'm selling the license of the asset for x amount of money he can get the rest.
    There is also another article that if you can prove you can get your other losses if you have any caused by this thing. Now at this point all those things needs to be solved in either court or people being agreed upon it and proving those especially since our models are free to download is hard cause we have our easy way of saying ' I could have made x amount of money' closed.Side note: In our law we own what we make directly it is 'automatically copyrighted' there is no database for copyrights except you make licenses for publishers and stuff

    But the most important issue is Chinese Copyright laws are different and it kinda means we have no choice but to contact the host and say goodbye to money.

    I really copyright stroke one guy stealing assets at moddb he was making no money but he still stole them it was easy to do in moddb but Netease probably will not make it easy and sadly as a lawyer I'lld advise to try contacting but not hold too much hope for it,I got my models that are up on sale at netease stuff too , I can't do anything because let's get real even if you sue them they can just get away with it, it is hard to explain all in English to me but since this will be a global issue and we are just little artists trying to get something from a company that uses an entire different law system we are mostly up for their 'good will'. But in theory things should go like what I wrote atleast in our law.

    ALSO A NOTE FOR MODELERS: Always try to leave a 'mark' of yourself on textures or just rename the root bone to something like 'made_by_yourarthas'
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  15. Razorclaw_X

    Razorclaw_X

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    I would have to point that it absolutely positively has to be something you made because I see people do this exact same things on things they obviously did not make.
     
  16. Paillan

    Paillan

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    Well, tbh the chinese law is an obscure topic to me (and I would even dare to assume it is an obscure topic to most lawyers).
    But I can say this. The fact that netease is blizzard approved means we can only ask the admins nicely to take down the posts that distributed hive models without permission, this is highly unlikely.
    As for the maps, it's an entirely different story. You would have to go map by map to see if the model in discussion is being used in premium and non premium content, and if it is used on premium content you might try to make a copyright claim (for unauthorized economical exploitaition), but tbh the chances of that succeding are slim too.
     
  17. Blackcat

    Blackcat

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    My impressions after having played ~20 matches on the Reforged beta.

    Overall: the gameplay is still great. And most units look fantastic.
    My two biggest gripes with the beta are:

    - Recognizability of units

    When playing the game I am having a hard time recognizing each unit separately. Militia and footmen look too much alike, raiders turn into a blurry mess, heroes aren't as 'in your face' as before. And during nighttime this gets twice as bad.

    Some units don't have this problem, so there is hope. I feel riflemen are the best units they've done. They are easily recognizable, they have plenty of team colors and they look faithful to their original counterpart. I can't see the difference between a footman in attack stance and with defend activated. It's hard to differentiate footmen with militia, all the human casters together don't really look all that impressive on the battlefield, etc.

    - The Battle.net experience

    Ooof.. I already expected this, but I'm not happy about the Battle.net experience we're getting in the beta. It looks like StarCraft 2. And I hate the StarCraft 2 battle.net experience. Where are my oversized chatrooms? Where is the social aspect? Why do I have to click so many buttons to get anywhere?

    /end rant