War on Iran

Is the War Justified?


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Level 34
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What do you all think about the US attacking Iran to stop "WWIII"?

I really think this is taking it too far. I disagreed about going into Iraq, and this is for sure a stupid idea. I doubt Iran will start WWIII. I would say this is more likely to start a large war. Countries are going to start fearing the US, seeing them as a threat. Not good.

Anyways, your guys' thoughts.
 
Level 34
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The only problem with Iran is that they are gaining alot of influence in the east, and the Sunnis are afraid of Iranian influence, and a Shiia revival spreading across the middle east.

Iran is not so much a US threat...yet, as much as it is a dire threat to the middle eastern Sunni nations like Saudi Arabia and Jordan and ect...and it is especially a threat to Israel. Iran's leaders are hell bent on destroying the state of Israel. Thats why everyone is afraid of a nuclear Iran.
 
Level 34
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Actually Shadow fox....we are directly tied to the area, and MUST worry about it, and intervene if we have to.

Because we are addicted to oil and will be for a long time. You have to know what your drug pusher is up to. If he's getting in fights, or jeapordizing your addiction fix...then it is up to you to set him straight.

Although war is not always the best solution.
 
Level 27
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I saw something the other day that really put things in perspective.
Lead.
We had saturated the atmosphere with lead. When it became obvious that it was dangerous to keep doing this, we just stopped. Lead levels returned to normal.
We can do the same thing with carbon dioxide, we can start using other energy.
 
Level 34
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We could try...but it will be difficult. To use a new energy scource will take time and lots of money.

New infastructure, new fuel creators, new ect. Basically a whole new economy basis.

Right now our economy is based on oil, it used to be based on steam, where before it was based on man power/slavery.

We can push through, and we can do it. But it will be hard.

The problem is...there is no other efficient scource like oil.

Not yet at least.
 
Level 25
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Middle east feeds us oil. Oil = Gasoline for cars, tanks, trucks, and other things that require motors. However we're starting to develop vehicles that run on electricity, including busses. (Not sure if there's two 's's in the plural word for bus.)

What we're trying to do is protect the oil refinerys, but it isn't that easy when you have hundreds of people charging towards then with bombs strapped across their chest, willing to die any kind of way, and into an oil well. So that is why the US is trying to convert the middle eastern governments to using democracy.

The destruction of oil refinerys also damages the Ozone atmosphere. So there's a few other reasons to defend the oil besides for the fact that it makes money and keeps things running.
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In other news:
The military has developed a new type of nano technology that camoflauges objects such as tanks to blend very well with their surroundings, making the camo vehicle looking almost invisible! How does it work? The tank (In this case) is covered completely in this sturdy nano technology. The technology detects what is around it and blends with it. The technology not only camoflauges the object, but also makes the vehicle more safe, and have a more likely of a chance to survive from bullets and possibly missles as well, though of course missles aren't 100% deflective so it is rare that a missle will not damage it. I don't remember how the defense system is upgraded, but it is.

So while we're kicking the asses of these arabian countries and slowly rebuilding them, we're also advancing in technology to beat them even harder and hopefully faster.

The only reason why I think we should NOT launch a nuke in any arabian regions is because there is lots of oil to be hit and wasted. Valuable oil at that. So it would be extremely foolish to do such a thing. That is why we do not take any actions like that. I think the arabic regions also produce other wares that are valuable and useful for the US as well, not sure what they were though. I think it was gold. I just know that oil is the top priority over there.
~Craka_J
 
Level 34
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Not too mention that launching a nuke would cause a massive world wide hatred and possible assault on Americans (if we launched it).

But of course...if the terrorists are able to obtain one [possibly by stealing it from Russia, or Pakistan (which is why Al'Queda is there in the first place), The entire world would finally back the United States in the east]

(offtopic) We are all tired of the Iraqi war..(as we all know) But I also know that we need to clean up our mess unfortunately....But If Europe/NATO would help us military wise....I think it would be over alot faster than just with us alone....(End of offtopic, although I thought it kinda had something to do with this)
 
Level 36
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Iran is a bad idea. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and I think that the US sees this as a threat to their Redneck Right wing Ultra-Christian roots.

If the US takes out Iran, Muslims everywhere I going to be PISSED OFF (to say the least) and perhaps a lot of violence within the country would occur, riots, rebellion, etc. The Islam minority is not big enough to overthrow the US government, but who the hell knows these days. Either way, you don't wanna mess with Iran.

After Iraq being the giant disaster that it was, I think the US should, to quote, "Back the fuck up before they smack the fuck up". The US is getting a lot of bad press on the world scale for it's misadventures in the middle east, and to continue them will only do harm.
 
Level 34
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If the US takes out Iran, Muslims everywhere I going to be PISSED OFF

While I do agree that taking Iran out is a VERY bad idea. Millions of muslims "everywhere" would not be pissed. Iran is Shiia, not Sunni. The majority of muslims are Sunni, and do not like the Shiia. And most Arab nations do not like Iran, because Iran is spreading its influence and is sort of invading the other Arab's personal space so too speak.

Not too mention that Iran is Persian, not Arab. Iraqi's hate Iraq, and so do the Sunnis.

But Iran is a powerful nation that is WAY bigger than Iran, and so invading with an already stretched military is just suicide.

The main problem is that they're afraid to back out, because they think that Iraq needs them. Which it doesn't.

We cannot back out of Iraq....We have to fix what we have broken, "clean up our mess." If we back out, Iraq will be controlled by Iran, (note the shiia controlled parliment, and shiia/sunni conflict, and Iran's aid to shiia militia. And note that SCIRI "an Iraqi party, was made in Iran, and that many of Iraq's leaders lived in Iran for many years.)

We need to stabilize Iraq, so that we can back out without being harmed (even if we pulled out now, it would take YEARS!!! Even in a peaceful nation much less without being shot at. And we have so much important equipment and so many soldiers over there, that it would be like moving a city.)

Like I said before however...if Europe and Nato would help us, we would be able to get out ALOT faster.
 
Level 34
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Redneck Right wing Ultra-Christian roots.

I disagree with you there. :\

I do think people are becoming afraid of Islam, but there's reason to be if you aren't. Just like many people were probably scared of Christianity when it was the fastest growing religion. When a religion grows big enough it can become corrupt because some people in it. Christianity had some pretty bad moments because of the people who called themselves "Christian". I would guess Islam would be the same, which it is right now. You have extremists who kill non-believers, which is scary.

Another thing, I am not sure, but how many Islamic countries are democratic, and don't have corrupted rules? How many aren't corrupted?
 
Level 25
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George Bush made a good decision to go into the east, but what made it a bad decision was he had no idea how to handle the situation. So pretty much, the job should've been handed to someone else. America calls itself "The World's Police", meanwhile we're helping countries that don't want their help, when we can be helping countries in Africa, who actually do want our help! Makes no sense to me.
We got rid of the biological weapons in Iraq, now we're ready to set off to the next task. Not rebuild the country(ies) we went to war with after you destroy it. Especially if it's a zone where terrorism rates are a high risk!

The next worst thing to happen is Hillary Clinton becoming president. Her plan is to pull all of the US soldiers back from war completely, which will just piss everyone off and that'll make things a lot worse for us. Better off pulling them out of one area, and the proceeding to help the next country in major need, and so on and so forth. Keep things moving along, ya know? Right now, there's barely any progress being made.
~Craka_J
 
Level 8
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As all this happens, Australia pops up and says, hey big brother (America) what are you doing? I want to do it too. Lets also invade Iraq.

Australia doesn't need to run on oil, we have enough sunlight and open area for wind and solar power.

I was going to say something but I thought it to be to controversial and insulting. So instead I will say if people could just stop thinking they are right beyond the shadow of a doubt and keep their views to themselves there would be far less problems.

(This is relating to the islamic push brad.dude03 was talking about, but can be reffereed to any religion)

As I have said before (in other posts) I am an open minded Christian. I love my God and see no alternative, but I do not go around trying to convert people. Why can't others follow my example? I get offended by some comments but let it slide for the sake of peace and the greater good. I don't think I am better but I do think this is what God wants me to do.
 
Level 36
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I'm a Christianm as well, a Catholic in fact, but you'll never, EVER, see my profess my faith in public, or tell people about how great my God is. Spirituality is an inner, personal venture, and I don't think it should ever start being pushed on people like the Evangelists do. Islam doesn't try to force people to convert either (as far as I know), but the extremists will kill you as long as you live in the "West".

In all honesty, I really don't care what God wants me to do. I don't care what he thinks of me. I just acknowledge that I think that he/it/non-gender exists.
 
Level 25
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In all honesty, I really don't care what God wants me to do. I don't care what he thinks of me. I just acknowledge that I think that he/it/non-gender exists.

+Rep to you for being the first sane religious (Well... not openly religious at least) person ever! Just the type of people I think are cool and appreciate. :smile:

Modo said:
I was going to say something but I thought it to be to controversial and insulting.

In a thread like this, at least one of us is bound to being insulted in some way. I'm sure this thread insults George Bush and Middle Easterners, so speak freely. Freedom of Speech, right? Just keep them clean and don't direct the insults so hard. Insult us in riddles! :grin:

Anyway, Australia is just war-hungry I think. They have no point of going to war, besides the fact that George Bush wants reinforcements from other friendly countries allied with the USA. Need for oil is everywhere. Unless if Australia strictly bases power on wind and water only, they're going to eventually be in need of oil and gas for cars and other mechanical devices.
~Craka_J
 
Level 8
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Exactly what I am saying (about the war). We (Australia) have no place in the war. I guess we are war-hungry, but try to cover ourselves by saying that "we are just following orders". It would not be that hard to get Australia onto solar and wind power, it just would go against the profit motive and take a while to convert.

It amazes me that we will convert from videos to DVD, from DVD to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, and from analogue tv to digital tv but we will not convert from petrol (what Americans refer to as gas) to clean fuels. It will be more efficient and better for us. I'm no economist, but the long term advantages of such technology must out weigh the up front cost. This is especiall true when you consider that the Earth may over heat etc.
 
Level 34
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I'm a Christianm as well, a Catholic in fact, but you'll never, EVER, see my profess my faith in public, or tell people about how great my God is. Spirituality is an inner, personal venture, and I don't think it should ever start being pushed on people like the Evangelists do. Islam doesn't try to force people to convert either (as far as I know), but the extremists will kill you as long as you live in the "West".

In all honesty, I really don't care what God wants me to do. I don't care what he thinks of me. I just acknowledge that I think that he/it/non-gender exists.

Man do I disagree with you there. And I'm pretty sure Islamic people go out and try to convert people. I've heard of them going into prisons to covert people.
 
Level 18
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Anyway, Australia is just war-hungry I think. They have no point of going to war, besides the fact that George Bush wants reinforcements from other friendly countries allied with the USA. Need for oil is everywhere. Unless if Australia strictly bases power on wind and water only, they're going to eventually be in need of oil and gas for cars and other mechanical devices.

We're only war-hungry if America is, as we're America's bitch at the moment. The very near elections may change that if the Opposition wins, though. As for oil, Australia produces more oil than it uses, we export oil to other countries. This is one of the reasons the rising oil prices in Australia piss me off: We produce all we use, why the fuck should we have to deal with world prices for it?
 
Level 36
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Modo said:
It amazes me that we will convert from videos to DVD, from DVD to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, and from analogue tv to digital tv but we will not convert from petrol (what Americans refer to as gas) to clean fuels.

It's on a different scale. The worst in your senario is that you have to go out and buy a new TV or player. That happens with time anyway. To switch to a new form of fuel requires every gas station to be equiped with this new fuel, stocked with it, and fitted to hold it, etc. Futhermore, everyone has to buy a brand new car that uses this new fuel type, which is a hell of a lot more expensive then buying a new TV or player.
 
Level 8
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brad.dude03: Yes, conversion cost a lot, but depending on what you convert to, it may actually be cheaper in the long run. Government subsidies would help a lot. You do not necessarily need a new car, just a conversion kit.

Petrol is extremely efficient, that is why is has lasted so long, but as prices increase, alternative fuel sources become economically viable. I am sure that there will be a day where filling up the tank will cost more than the car. It is at this time that people may finally act.
 
Level 40
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Another thing, I am not sure, but how many Islamic countries are democratic, and don't have corrupted rules? How many aren't corrupted?
That also has to do with their worldly location though... that area of the world hasn't been in a very good state since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

About Muslims killing non-believers, I think that has nothing to do with their religion, as they kill you for leaving the religion or openly attacking it, but not for being in it. (Again, hearsay)

Sure, it will cost a lot, but failure to spend now will result in much, much, more spending later.
Sadly, many businesses of this sort live for the moment (No long-term regards).

Also, don't forget that not all of these alternative energy sources are that great. Sure, ethanol is cleaner, but you have to make it too, which is a pain. Solar panels don't pollute, except for the construction process, and trashed ones, etc, etc. Solar is also fairly inefficient. There is really no perfect solution.

Wind, Hydro, and Nuclear are looking the best in my eyes.
 
Level 34
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Elenai, now ask yourself how we make that electricity.

For now, Electric cars aren't a very good solution.


Well right now we use fossile fuels.

But there is new developments in underwater wind mills (I do not know the correct term, but essentially that is what they are)

They work like a wind mill does, except, that instead of wind, water currents turn the rotors, and electricity is made that way. Turning mechanical energy into electricity.

And since it doesnt use any fossile fuels (other than oil for lube but we might not even need that.)

It would solve our fossil fuels addiction for energy production.

And if we can make efficient electric cars, it would break us of our oil addiction for motion...and it will buy us some much needed time, to find a more efficient solution.
 
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