Very disturbing.

[Mr. Bob]

Omg this is annoying. This thread lost power a long time ago. Do not start it again.

To everyone who said: "Don't join the military" it depends. I agree that it can be a rather less than intelligent path in life, but some people like to serve their country. Nuff said.


To everyone who has relatives who served: I don't care what your feelings for them are. Calling someone else ignorant for warning someone against something is ignorant. I respect the choice they made to serve, but frankly, it doesn't mean they are some kind of super righteous people. Do not inflate what has been inflated too much. If serving your country in the face of danger made you some sort of honor whore, then 50% of American's would be honor whores. You see, the military isn't the only type of government job that is deadly. Logging is twice as deadly, and it technically helps our government.

'Nuff said. Now do not post in an old thread again.

 

[Bontrager]

I never claimed anyone was super righteous. The post I was responding to went far beyond appropriate. If you do not believe in military service, then alright that is your own opinion. But going as far as to call someone, or in this case a very large body of people,
"Fucking psychopaths that just want to slaughter"
"shooting some kids in a ditch is a honorable thing to do",
is no wheres near knowledgeable or acceptable. Ignorance is the lacking of information in a particular subject. And I believe the quotes above fit the criteria.

And to finish this off...
"Forced to join the army by their government"
From the numbers I have seen a large portion is in fact volunteer.

"Lured into thinking that they actually owe it to their country"
You do owe some portion of duty to your country. Believe it or not this is fulfilled in more ways then just military service. You may not agree with certain laws or politicians, but you are so much more fortunate then you think.

 

[Mr. Bob]

I never claimed anyone was super righteous. The post I was responding to went far beyond appropriate. If you do not believe in military service, then alright that is your own opinion. But going as far as to call someone, or in this case a very large body of people,
"Fucking psychopaths that just want to slaughter"
"shooting some kids in a ditch is a honorable thing to do",
is no wheres near knowledgeable or acceptable. Ignorance is the lacking of information in a particular subject. And I believe the quotes above fit the criteria.

And to finish this off...
"Forced to join the army by their government"
From the numbers I have seen a large portion is in fact volunteer.

"Lured into thinking that they actually owe it to their country"
You do owe some portion of duty to your country. Believe it or not this is fulfilled in more ways then just military service. You may not agree with certain laws or politicians, but you are so much more fortunate then you think.

And I never said I was talking to you. Please read all of the posts in this thread. Most of what you are saying has been covered in detail.

You say "you owe it to your country". I do not. I frankly couldn't care less. Not to sound cynical, but I am trying to be frank here. I do not care if this country lives or dies. Due to complex logical systems, I wouldn't care if I lived in land where I was tortured for my beliefs. The mind can adapt.

As for what you think about what that other guy said, he was going to extremes. I doubt he was being literal.

Again, read all of the comments in this thread. Then, do not post again here. This thread is supposed to be dead. My PM box is always open though. And I love a good chat.

 

[Bontrager]

And I never said I was talking to you. Please read all of the posts in this thread. Most of what you are saying has been covered in detail.

You say "you owe it to your country". I do not. I frankly couldn't care less. Not to sound cynical, but I am trying to be frank here. I do not care if this country lives or dies. Due to complex logical systems, I wouldn't care if I lived in land where I was tortured for my beliefs. The mind can adapt.

As for what you think about what that other guy said, he was going to extremes. I doubt he was being literal.

Again, read all of the comments in this thread. Then, do not post again here. This thread is supposed to be dead. My PM box is always open though. And I love a good chat.

What is the point of Late Night Trolling if you have to PM?

 

[Mr. Bob]

What is the point of Late Night Trolling if you have to PM?

I am going to assume your joking...

Tis' not trolling, merely debate.

 

[Bontrager]

I am going to assume your joking...

Tis' not trolling, merely debate.

What is on the table for debate exactly? I have all night.

 

[Mr. Bob]

What is on the table for debate exactly? I have all night.

To tell you the truth, I have no idea. I figured you might disagree with something I said in this thread...I may be wrong...

But, if you do, it will have to wait till tomorrow. I am going to bed about now.

 

[Japut3h]

I would love to see you say these exact words to individuals who have served in the military. Particularly my brother, two uncles, grandfather, and three great uncles. Please restrain yourself from spilling your ignorance all over the interwebs anymore.

I stand behind what I said. Even though I did say it a bit too extreme, psychopaths do join the military, whether you like it or not. I've seen them, and I know what I'm talking about. That doesn't make everyone psycho, that doesn't make even 10% of the military psycho. But it's still an alarming number, and you'd be surprised how many idiots like the ones in this video are out there.


Also, war is stupid.

Being a part of it, on your own accord, is stupid. Unless, of course, you're fighting to literally save something of real value to you, not a false ideal someone else rubbed into your nose. And that's why I said "world of today", not "world of 1941".

Your life isn't a necessary sacrifice to save anything. The so-called "advanced" nations of today are waging wars for oil and money, not for freedom.

You do owe some portion of duty to your country.

Perhaps. But definitely not your freaking life.

 

[Silverfish423]

i agree with Mr. Bob. We do not owe anything to our country. This country, if it still is what it is supposed to be and not corrupted as it probably is, is run by the people. We owe it to ourselves. The people were the ones who brought the US up from ground zero, and it is the people that are going to keep it going without it going corrupt. When the government stops protecting the rights of the people and starts taking it away and forcing you to do stuff, that is where stuff starts going into the gray zone and right and wrong are not known.

 

[Bontrager]

i agree with Mr. Bob. We do not owe anything to our country. This country, if it still is what it is supposed to be and not corrupted as it probably is

I was talking about my country not its government. I believe their is a great difference.

 

[Silverfish423]

But the government is the one who says that you should serve in the armed forces. The government puts out little sayings that make it seem as if we are protecting our freedom or killing bad guys. I have never heard someone say to me, oh, you owe it to me to go into the army, go now. No, it is the government that issues drafts so their government is protected, not so we are nice and happy in our cozy homes. War never solves problems, it hasn't for the couple thousand of years we have been on this planet.

 

[Bwathke]

Ill say it as simple as I can. If there wasn't an army out there now we would have terrorists everywhere and more things like 9/11 so be thankful that your not at gunpoint right now.

 

[Silverfish423]

There is a difference between staying on your own turf and defending your country and going onto someone else's turf claiming that you are eliminating them for a better cause. War is not the solution. This is for a different discussion however, a very deep one.

 

[Bwathke]

Why are we discussing this on a forum for a game called WARcraft?

 

[Yearight]

Meh just ask a mod to close it. And think before you do something stupid.

 

[Hakeem]

If there wasn't an army out there now we would have terrorists everywhere and more things like 9/11

We wouldn't have any terrorists at all. They'd have nothing to be mad about.

Also, are you saying the army stopped 9/11?

Why are we discussing this on a forum for a game called WARcraft?

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[Bwathke]

I think you just answered your own question.

That made no sense.

And we would still have terrorists because everyone wants more land they all want more power its not because their mad. Also I'm going to try to get a Mod to close this.

 

[Hakeem]

WARcraft

Why wouldn't we discuss war on a Warcraft III site?

everyone wants more land they all want more power

That is certainly not why terrorism happens. That's why war happens. Also, it's the governments that want land and power, not the people.

 

[Tarfen]

okay seriously...If you dont believe in war and stuff...then why do you play warcraft???
im just wondering...You say senseless killing isnt the answer yet...
in warcraft it is ALL senseless killing
now sure killing in real life is different but if you know what im saying then you shouldn't say that in response

 

[Mr. Bob]

Why did this thread have to be brought back to life?

 

[Japut3h]

okay seriously...If you dont believe in war and stuff...then why do you play warcraft???
im just wondering...You say senseless killing isnt the answer yet...
in warcraft it is ALL senseless killing
now sure killing in real life is different but if you know what im saying then you shouldn't say that in response

Then, if you say it's different, why, of why did you even compare those two in the beginning?

 

[Bontrager]

The moderator should not have to interfere, nothing against the rules has been done in this thread just some floundering of disagreement.

 

[Tarfen]

tru tru...and i say its different because its not ALL that different but it is different in that its not REAL people dieing but what if it was?
Would you play a game that killed REAL people???
:O

 

[Wilddwarf]

Where do you get off, saying outlandish things like that? What use are killers in war? It's not like the purpose of an army is to kill other people. That's surely not the whole reason they exist in the first place.

Ummm...geh? What do soldiers do? They kill other soldiers. War, once the excess is cut away, is two large groups of people killing eachother. What did you think guns, bombs and grenades did, send people off to happyland?

in warcraft it is ALL senseless killing

I'm not sure I'd say senseless. Rexxar killed Admiral Proudmoore to stop a needless war. Before arthas turned evil, he was concerned with saving innocent lives, no matter what the cost. Myself, I see Thrall as kind of a "let my people go" Martin Luther King figure, albeit a bit paranoid. And sometimes you just have to defend yourself.

 

[Firelord213]

TLR.

Could you guys define what a terrorist is in your opinion?
Many believe terrorists are Iraqis/Palestinians/Chechens/Afghans who fight the Foreign Troops in their Nation, Even though they haven't committed any kind of terror towards civilians.

Now in My opinion, A terrorist is one who spreads terror among Civilians (By killing Civilians), I don't consider Suicide bombing against soldiers (where no civilians are killed) as Terrorism, But I'm against it.
So what I'm trying to say, According to me there are Terrorists in the Foreign Armies in Iraq and Afghanistan ...and like every army as well.

 

[NoAmmoSrry]

DONT JOIN THE ARMY


JOIN THE NAVY!

But on a serious note, anyone who is actually following this thread, I recommend you watch this video:

Ego

And you should do some research about "Ego". You know that quote, we are are own worst enemy. Well its true. I could keep going about it, but to lazy 2, might explain it more later on.

 

[Joss]

I'll try and summarize it as best I can:

Q: Is the army a bad and evil career because of what they do?

A: From my point of view, no, they are not evil. Their killing of others is often frowned upon, but much more often praised, as odd as it seems when you make it as cut an' dry as that. But, to get much deeper, soldiers are not killers, they are protectors. What do they protect? Our way of life. And no, I'm not speakign solely from an American perspective. The Nazi army, the Whermacht, fought for their way of life, as did the terrorists we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure, we may not agree with what they are fighting for, and often demonize oru enemies, but its all about perspective. To more fully answer the question, if the soldier is killing others out of neccessity, then it is in no way "evil". However, if our friend the G.I. over in Iraq is killing and humiliatign out of cruelty and malice, and finds pleasure in doing so, then it becomes "evil" (I wish I had a less primitive and general term for it, though)

Q: Going back to the videos, do you believe that the soldiers themselves are responsible for their crimes, or is the government?

A: I blame the men and women who carried out these deeds. However, I also blame the government for providing the steps upon which those men and women could use to walk downwards into their own private hells, and the hells of those they tortured. More specifically, those they terrorized. Yes, I do believe American soldiers terrorized those people. Let's define this little term, shall we (without a dictionary, of course ;D)?
To commit terrorrism is to instill terror into the hearts of people, without remorse, and for a cause that likely benefits the terrorist at the loss of the terrorrized. Our soldiers instilled fear into these people. They were seeking information to better their cause in the war. Many of them (two in these videos) feel no remorse for their part in these disdainful activities (however, many also feel remorse, as also seen in these videos).

Q: So, what's your take on all this?

A: What's my take? My take on all this is that its a neverending circle of war and death. We fought this war in Iraq for one simple reason: Americans needed someone to blame for 9/11. Hell, I was only 6 at the time, and I pretended that I had a cousin on one of the planes so I could be mad at the people that had done this to our country! But, of course, now, I see it as the facade it truly is, and I have seen it in its true form for quite some time. But, in my final synopsis, all I can say is... We have to live with it. Whether we agree with war or not, its out there, and will be until the day it consumes us all in its fire of death and greed. But, yes, I do believe that what these men did was horrible.

Also, a brainwashing factory? Get real. This isnt some kind of sci-fi thriller with a mediocre appearence by Ben Stiller or Bruce Willis. This is a reality, and in this reality, the army doesnt brainwash you. Its just a life and career choice, which involves some of the darkest and most frightenign and important stuff in the world. It doesnt turn your brain into mush and make you a mindless killing machine.

And this is my view of this topic. Hope I'm not contributign to the the necro-posting that is above me, as I posted later. If I am, please, let me know, and I can take care of it.

 

[NoAmmoSrry]

 

[Joss]

I dont think this constitutes as necro-posting, as I didnt start it off, I only posted after the fact.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Three months is totally necroposting. I'm not even going to make bad jokes.

 

[Pyritie]

It's okay to necropost if they carry on the discussion, guyz