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USA's Presidental Election 2012

Discussion in 'Medivh's Tower' started by Linaze, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Access to contraceptives do not succeed. At all. It's not even close. The, "you're going to do it anyways, so we'll encourage you by providing contraception so you don't have to worry about those terrible atrocities called babies" is ridiculous. The media pumps sex at us and then we're told that we can have risk-free sex (which is completely false, look at the rise of STDs). I'd also point out that Teens getting pregnant isn't a problem, it means that something went right. Pregnancy is not something to be looked down upon. Teen sex is the problem.

    Something needs to change. The problem isn't fixed with a band-aid program or product, but a new moral strength within society. The West is full of weak men and women that are doing what they can to seek pleasure and avoid pain, and it's ruining our lives. Myself included.


    Since you got me fired up on contraceptives.... :p

    Natural Family Planning uses a woman's cycle to predict when she's ovulating. Not sure how it works, I'm not a woman and have never bothered to study NFP, but...
    As well I am told that NFP leads to a very low percentage of unplanned pregnancies.

    On the other hand, the pill...
    Source: http://onemoresoul.com/contraceptio...-a-woman-should-know-about-birth-control.html

    Admittedly these stats are questionable (I didn't bother to check their sources), but I know that the side effects of the pill are awful. It's crazy that they are encouraged upon girls.
     
  2. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    It is a problem for the teen's, because they can barely work or study. They have to provide care of the baby till it's old enough, and not everyone is so lucky to get support from family or close relatives. This is a huge problem and america has the highest teen pregnancy rate.

    Teen sex itself isn't a problem as long as it's safe and people use condoms. Because it's fully natural for them to learn and explore, so sex isn't something we should hide away. Society is more open when it comes to sex then ever. So what we should do is focus on proper sex education and the dangers STD's. Because kids discover porn relatively early you know and it's not a healthy example. Sex education is really bad in some places. It should not come from teachers, because let's face it. It isn't fun to hear about their sex life and experience, and especially not if they're old. So for example having students explain is alot better and easier way for teens to relate to and set a good example.
     
  3. Linaze

    Linaze

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    I could also make a silly blog about dumb-appearing people who support Obama, but what would I prove? There were certainly many intellectuals and academics who voted for Romney and Obama alike; they just don't feel the need to tweet about it.

    Anyway as I said, I would probably've voted for Romney (given I was American), but only because I consider him one step less bad than the alternative. The repulibcans need a paleo-conservative candidate, like Pat Buchanan.
     
  4. Edhel-dur

    Edhel-dur

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    Woot, Obama won, my prediction was correct.

    The dog knows what's up.

    Edit: If I was american citizen, I would have voted for Romney so he can change the USA Ambassador here in Romania, because the current one talks shit all the time, and keeps supporting the current president of Romania, which we, the majority people, want him disposed off for years now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  5. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    It succeeds at lowering pregnancy rates/STD transmission rates. It doesn't succeed at this "moral strength" bullshit that nobody cares about anyways.

    The rise of STDs is worse in areas that don't use condoms. Look at Africa, which is currently having a massive AIDS crisis, largely due to Catholics like yourself telling them that they're going to hell if they wear a condom.

    It is a societal problem, regardless of what your religious beliefs are. It puts a massive strain on someone's life at a time when they should be getting their education or starting their life, and the kid's childhood will probably be negatively affected by having a financially insecure (and probably irresponsible) parent as well.

    Denying reality much? Teens with raging hormones should just stop having sex because someone of some arbitrary religion says so? Seriously, your argument is "absitence-only sex education is the right way to go regardless of the fact that it doesn't work, because the fact that it doesn't work is the fault of the people we're targeting!" Life tip: as a general rule, if education is failing, it's not the fault of the student.

    Substantially higher than contraceptives (which lead to essentially 0%), no doubt.

    Reputable sources please, not religious blogspam. Besides, use a condom if you think the side effects of the pill are a bad idea.

    --

    Incidentally, this is why your religious freedoms are being (rightfully) restricted: you seem to think that since you believe this nonsense, you have the right, nay, the duty to push it on other people.
     
  6. Gilles

    Gilles

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    And you do have the right? I don't understand this argument at all. Why am I not allowed to speak what I believe is the truth? Aren't you expressing your beliefs here?

    I never said that I thought condoms were wrong because the Church says so. Not once. You cannot resort to calling my arguments religious "nonsense".

    Actually...
    http://www.bmj.com/content/307/6906/723
    "a study of 19,843 poor women in India had a pregnancy rate approaching zero."
     
  7. Linaze

    Linaze

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    I'm not religious by any means (although a strong believer in Christian morale), but I most certainly believe Gilles has the same right to push his views over to others as much as you Poot have the right to do the same with your views.
     
  8. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    Do you believe that condoms are wrong?
    And even more interestingly, why?

    What about other techniques of birth control?
     
  9. Zombie

    Zombie

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    I certainly would have supported Romney if I was American, but I'm glad Obama won, since I'm not. While Romney was probably a person who was to support the values and traditions of his nation more thoroughly, opposed to the more liberal Obama, he would have used America's global influence to stir up international trouble. He likely would have gone against Iran and tightened the US' grip over the EU region, Obama expressed disinterest in doing both. If the opposite was to happen, the region where I live would be among those affected most negatively.
     
  10. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    Because belief does not constitute evidence. The reason that scientists are taken seriously is because they are held to some standard of evidence, not "my gut tells me it's right."

    If you don't believe the church dogma, then how are you Catholic? That's a pretty central tenet of Catholicism. Hell, it's the single defining tenet of Catholicism.

    And that has to do with "strong moral values" and not to do with the strict caste system/sexism in that culture? It's telling that the example you cite is of a society which strictly controls the younger members, women especially. I don't see how people who are strongly pressured if not forced into behaving one way are somehow moral for doing so when they have no alternative.

    If both of our views are arbitrary unfounded restrictions on other peoples' freedom, sure. However, I'm not arguing that you should arbitrarily restrict peoples' freedom with regards to birth control, etc; I'm arguing that your freedom to be religious/whatever does not extend to freedom to violate other peoples' freedoms.

    This is a standard fallacy that comes up whenever religious whining happens, especially in the US. Religion has a history of oppressing people of whatever topic is being discussed; let's say gays and lesbians, for example. When people tell them they are no longer allowed to do that since they are infringing upon other peoples' freedoms, they claim their own freedoms are being violated. That's not how freedom of expression works. If you believe that being gay means you will go to hell, you can apply that to yourself however you like, but your right to apply it stops as soon as someone else is involved. Refusing medicine to someone because you do not believe in it personally is a clear violation of this.
     
  11. Verhalthur

    Verhalthur

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    I do believe this has deviated from the intended topic.

    How about a more on topic theme:

    Who would you like to see run in the next presidential election?
     
  12. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    Obama versus Jill Stein.
    Possibly even a third party Ron Paul in there.

    That'd be enough to stir somethings up and do some major changes.
     
  13. En_Fuego

    En_Fuego

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    Jill Stein ran last week and got less than 1% of the votes, primarily because Americans realize that her policies are foolish. And because she was arrested.

    Ron Paul won't run on a 3rd party ticket and even if he did, he wouldn't win. He would just siphon a bunch of votes.
     
  14. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    It was quite hypothetical, neither of these would ever (except Obama) would ever get a majority.

    It's superhard, if not impossible, to come in as a third party in the U.S. election.
     
  15. Verhalthur

    Verhalthur

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    I actually voted for Jill Stein (a rarity, I'm sure!).
    She definitely has some foolish positions, but so did all of the candidates. Most importantly, she had a reasonable foreign policy. I may agree with some of what Barack Obama does, but I disagree intensely with the drone strikes in Pakistan. They have killed some militants, but they regularly kill innocent people and that is not okay.
    I would also see the US turn away from its increasingly aggressive position towards Iran. I do not want another war.
     
  16. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Who are you quoting? I never said that, or anything like it. Why are scientists being brought up in an argument about ethics?

    I also never said I don't believe Church dogma. This is the third time you've put words in my mouth. I certainly believe Church dogma, but I can come to the same conclusion as the Church on ethics by using reason. Faith is not incompatible with reason. I do not believe anything that I think is unreasonable. Perhaps unimaginable, but not unreasonable.

    I didn't cite that to show that they were moral. I cited it simply to show that NFP is effective.

    You lost me. No idea what any of this means.
    For starters, how do you define freedom? It may seem like a dumb question, but it's an important one for me.

    So,
    I believe that murder is a mortal sin, just like homosexuality. That is my religious belief. Therefore I shouldn't impose it on others. Therefore people should be allowed to murder.
     
  17. I3lackDeath

    I3lackDeath

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    Folks, please stay on topic of the presidental election.

    This discussion has derailed several times by now.
    You can always create new, separate discussions about subjects such as religious believs, moral and the like, if you desire to discuss such themes.
     
  18. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    There's not much left to talk about on the president election, i don't see how expanding the topic is the same as derailing.
     
  19. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    However, discussing whether the topic is derailing or isn't is derailing!
    Oh my god, I am even doing it right now!
     
  20. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Apologies. Poot and I have taken our debate elsewhere.