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United States Presidential Election 2016

Discussion in 'Medivh's Tower' started by StoPCampinGn00b, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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    You think our Electoral College system is broken, but have you ever put any thought into why it was set up in the first place? This wasn't some shits and giggles experiment or abstraction, there was endless debate over whether it should be included or not. The best way to view it is by shifting your perspective. These days most foreigners, and a large number of Americans themselves, view the United States as a monolithic country. This was now how the US was setup, nor is it how it actually is today. The United States is not a collection of Provinces, but a Union of States, separate countries banded together for their common good. The Tenth Amendment and the prior Articles of Confederation are very clear, the US was not ever intended to be a country. The core reason behind the Electoral College was to limit the power of large states, while still giving them more influence than smaller states. This is why the Electoral College ignores the proportion of votes in a state, and only counts whether it was a majority or not; then assigning the candidate a number of votes proportional to that states population. By making the proportion irrelevant, it intended to prevent a candidate from only focusing on the largest states at the expense of all others. The President is meant to be representative of all States, not just the largest few.

    And it worked perfectly, I could tell as I watched the entire thing live. Trump was 3% ahead in votes until California, my own state, started being counted. Hell, if we cut off the excess voters (above 50%) in the top four states, California, Texas, New York, and Florida (they both won two); the popular vote is 56050173 vs 58857593, or 46.3% vs 48.7%. In summary, Clinton won big in a few concentrated areas, while Trumps support was far more widespread. This was a directly intended result of the system the founders setup, not some democratic tragedy. Trump is a President of the States, not a President of the Few Largest States.
    btw if you do this with the top 6 states, Illinois and Pennsylvania, which they also split, it turns to 55190854 (46%) vs 58789357 (49%).
    You act as if your beliefs come from a divine power, as if you were a priest who has access not only to indisputable and self apparent facts, but that your entire system of beliefs stems from some advanced morality beyond the common people.

    In short, you are smug. You're unbearably smug and you just took a loss. If she had won you'd have been laughing and poking fun at all those unwashed savages. But that didn't happen. People rejected your belief system.

    And you're blaming the people.

    No, I cannot be wrong, it is the people who are wrong. There must be more sexists, racists, islamophobes, KKK members, NRA nuts, religious bigots, white supremacists, mental rejects, and deplorables than I thought. What happened couldn't possibly be a reasonable choice against an incredibly flawed candidate. No, it had to have been those bigots, lashing out against a perfect candidate, the Heaven you described. They couldn't even read the ballots.

    You're delusional, and it's the same exact delusion our media is printing currently. The same media who couldn't even foresee that Trump would win by 9%, a landslide, in Ohio. They no joke put it as a leaning blue state. Huffington Post gave him a 1.6% chance to win.

    So cock sure.
    So wrong.

    Why do you think only 1/3rd of Americans trust the media? Do you honestly think that continuing to insult people, to throw label after buzzword at them, belittling their intelligence, will win them over to your side? You, the media, and those protesters are all throwing a tantrum. You didn't get the result you wanted, and you lash out and blame everything except your very own ideology. You lost and you go deeper into your bubble.


    You know the funniest part? The more this goes on, the more inaccurate your predictions will be.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  2. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    To make it sound fair to the people. Mean while the candidates to choose from have always been rigged to a select few privileged individuals. Any number of structures could have been chosen with any number of equally valid reasons to support them. There is no proof the current way is the best, only that the current way vaguely works. Except for the times it does not work when you get a civil war and such.

    Which makes no sense with the system since the states who voted against the president do not really support him. This is evident by the large scale protests going on.

    One could also just take the states Hillary won and it would look rigged towards her. So easy to play with numbers.

    One could also re run the entire poll today and Hillary would win. Trump has already lost a lot of his supporters after dropping his entire "send Hillary to prison" act. This also applied to the Brexit vote in the UK though where the results would also change after a few days if the poll was rerun.

    No, I am only blaming under half the people of the USA for making an illogical and stupid choice. How can they even vote for someone who clearly did not do any debating at highschool.

    There are a variety of reasons. Some are illiterate. Some only have access to heavily biased sources. Some, probably a minority, believe in totally crackpot theories. Some even think the media is the work of the devil. Every country has these although admittedly the US does seem to have them in larger numbers for some reason.

    This is why I source from multiple news sources including UK, Germany, France, Russia, America, etc. Each clearly is biased in certain ways but together it gets a more complete picture. Russian news, for example, was extremely pro Trump. On the other hand UK, US, FR and DE news were all anti him. This is on top of my own research.

    There is nothing left to be won. There are no people to convince to change their vote. Trump won a few days ago in case people did not notice.

    Its the same way I can call the Germans who voted for Hitler and the National Socialist party idiots. Or the people who let Communism take over Russia as idiots. People need to look back in history and hopefully learn from it.

    Also this is highly ironic given the post structure.
    A lot of people world wide share a similar view. Someone like Trump is not a dependable ally, especially with the way he has been acting. He bullies people, he is egocentric and clearly lacks a decent education by the way he conducts himself. Not only have the US voters let themselves down, but they also let the world down which is far bigger than the USA.

    I made 1 prediction which was wrong, even if you can call it that as Hillary won the popular vote. There is no statistical evidence any other predictions made will be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  3. America is basically copying the Philippines... You know.. Rodrigo Duterte...
     
  4. The_Silent

    The_Silent

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    The man is anti-education, anti-science, anti-women's rights. ect. ect. He is a step backward on all matters that is important.
    No matter what else happens, you can expect the difference between poor, middle-class and rich rise extremely the next 4 years.

    All climate deals made previously will probably fly out the window, the US will fall even further behind when it comes to technological progress, and the everyday life of women, the poor and minorities will probably be even more dangerous than it previously were.

    Also, the man thinks the world is flat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  5. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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  6. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Apparently trumps wall is going to be nothing more than a few stretches of fence. I am guessing it will only be like 5 or 7 ft high as well. Probably that is all the US can afford seeing how Mexico is not going to pay for it. Not going well seeing how that was one of the corner stone promises of his campaign...

    His staffing choices also seem strange. Mixing high end politicians, the sort he said he hated, with his own campaign manager. His chief strategist is apparently quite an extremist, who promotes hate towards abortion, gays, hatred against Jewish people etc. However I guess he had to fulfil his promise to the guy, why else would he manage his campaign?

    Hillary is also not going to be prosecuted. Trump has completely dropped his promise of sending her to prison, probably because his daughter is friends with Hillary's daughter. Considering he invited them to his wedding this should not be surprising. He has also officially stated that all those hate spreading people that attended his rallies have to stop. It is about time as apparently some are getting some quite serious accusations.

    Obama Care is also going to stay apparently. At least the core features of it. Instead Trump wants to adopt the approach promised by Hillary which continues on from Obama and work out the kinks in the scheme. Maybe he can rename it Trump Care or something to get rid of all the nonsense negative press surrounding it. However his proposed solutions seem doubtful in effectiveness, as although they will increase policy competition in a few states which will lower prices, it will instead increase average policy price and so other states might see a rise in policy prices. Ultimately good public healthcare just is expensive, it is one of the big ticket items on the budget here in the UK. I personally think the US should cut military spending to subsidise Obama/Trump care, at least initially as one might find the policy prices decrease over time as general population health improves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  7. Ash

    Ash

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    Enjoying reading this, but make sure to keep your arguments focused on the topic and not the individual. No more I's and You's.
     
  8. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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    Mixed fencing and wall; some of the areas are quite rugged especially on the border with Texas, with numerous canyons already there. The issue with the current border is that there are large stretches with not even a chain link fence. The effectiveness of any border wall is dependant on policing more than anything anyways. It's there to slow and stall most attempts, just look at how the Hungarians did theirs.
    Bannon? He's just getting blamed for anything and everything Breitbart publishes. You know they like to rile shit up. Abortions probably accurate though, gay certainly isn't.
    Special Prosecutor is still on
    He's said that prior as well
    Two features he's stated he specifically likes, the preexisting conditions section, and the student/parent healthcare section. ACA and related regulations are massive, thousands of pages. For a few features to survive is not a big surprise.
    Hey you know, maybe with you Euros helping out with NATO again we could probably cut it. At least you got out before the "European Army" becomes official.
     
  9. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    It got breached multiple times via the use of wire cutters or tunnels and some determined people who did not care about self injury.

    Such a wall in the desert would do nothing but kill innocent economic migrants where as the really bad druglords and criminals will cut through it or dig under it. This already happened a few times in urban areas along the boarder where walls do exist so elaborate tunnel systems were made to connect Mexico to the United States of America to smuggle drugs and personal.

    A fence might also affect ecology of the area. Sure most of it is a desert where practically nothing grows, however it is still home to a few tough animals and a wall might affect them.

    It should be top priority to pickup anyone who gets trapped against the fence though. There is no water in that area and if they happen to be in the middle the nearest help could be dozens of kilometres away so they will die. As it is dozens of people die every year trying to make the crossing. The investment saving them will also have returns because if they live and are sent back to their country of origin they will likely spread word that the journey failed and if enough word of failure hits the street people will stop even trying, which in turn will reduce the number to save in the future.

    The only reason so many people keep trying to cross the Mediterranean sea to Europe is now with all the constant patrolling there is a >90% success rate with the crossing even in the most unsafe conditions. Like wise with the Mexican and United States of America boarder so many people cross it because the success rate is high enough. The more desperate someone is, the more risk they are willing to take however there will still be a point where they decide it is just not worth even attempting.

    The two go hand in hand. Even if not involved directly, the sort of people that are anti-abortion are also anti-gay. Such backward thinking is not the sort one should want in a government.

    However that is still basically revising it, as Hillary proposed to continue the work of Obama. This sort of thing happens all the time in software development, and I would not be surprised if Trumps proposals eventually need revision as well by a future president or even his own office later. Practically nothing is ever perfect first time and Obama should still be credited for starting it as no other president did.

    Well seeing how Trump wants to pull out all that spending anyway, putting it in health care would certainly be a good use of it. The main reason the EU does not have a large military is there really is no need in this day and age. Russia and the rest of the world just cannot go to war because nukes are involved. If the EU was more willing to work with Russia instead of constantly denouncing Russia there would probably be no tensions between the two anyway.
     
  10. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    If he "kept" Obamacare (though I'm curious what percentage of it could be 'kept' and it still be considered Obamacare ('which raindrop is responsible for the flood?')) but then modified it, or if he got rid of it entirely and, starting anew, included some features that were also included in Obamacare... What is the difference? Really seems like a semantic argument.
     
  11. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Obamacare is about providing healthcare to everybody. It is more about the concept than the actual implementation. Gorge Bush (2000 - 2008) thought nothing of letting millions of United States citizens die from a lack of healthcare. It is only Obama who fought for a scheme to try and give good healthcare to everyone. Sure the implementation has problems, but so does every implementation. The only reason premiums are rising in some states (they are lowering in others) is due to the failed health care system of the US being about profit rather than improving the health of people. The reason your medication costs an arm and a leg is so that some guy can buy an additional Ferrari or yacht. This is why India completely disregards US copyright on medicine and produces genuine medication at cut rate prices. Why should one pay 10$ a pill when it only costs 10c to make?
     
  12. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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    Napi migránsok száma - dátum szerinti lekérdezés | A Magyar Rendőrség hivatalos honlapja
    Check every month manually since then if you like, the fence went up on the 17th, remember to pay attention to the scale on the side. What you're talking about, breaches, result in spikes to around 250 in a day, compare that to the rate pre-fence.
    "Economic Migrants" yeah nah. Yep, druglords and criminals will cut through or dig. And guess what, the volume they get through there is dwarfed by the volume they get through here. https://i.actualno.com/actualno_2013/upload/news/2016/09/26/0855740001474873923_564830_600x458.jpg
    bingo, but they'll be processed, with identities, fingerprints, and dna taken; and if they cross again they get two years in jail.
    That's because if they get caught by a patrol, they're not sent back.
    Come on DSG, you know better than this. Those are two entirely different issues.

    R&D; same reason software has a cost.
     
  13. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Most of the people were transiting through anyway. A lot want to go to the UK. Hence why the route used has changed.

    The economic migrants are not the problem. After all a significant proportion of the USA is descended from the same people. The only problem with economic migrants is them falling off federal radar so not only do they get abused with below minimum wage but also the government gets no tax. If they were paid a fair wage then they would compete with people already in the USA so there would be no problem with them taking jobs. UK has exactly this problem, we have quite a substantial illegal worker problem here as well.

    So you want to pay to keep them locked up rather than sending them back? This is the very definition of economic nonsense, the sort that plagues the UK! Far better for the economy to find them work in the USA and get them to compete for jobs like everyone else. That way they end up contributing tax money to the USA rather than wasting USA tax payer money on prisons.

    Yes but that is because the EU is highly progressive with human rights unlike the USA. One can argue if its too progressive but that is a different topic.

    They are highly related issues as both are often used in the same protests by some extremist people. It all boils down to trying to remove rights from people that have taken centuries of fighting to achieve.
     
  14. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    For us is better that Trump won, I hope at least Americans will know now where lies Slovenia.
     
  15. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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    ah yes the other half of Czechoslovenia :^)


    You think that Mayor of where Melania was born will make due on his promise of making the local castle a US Embassy if Trump won?
     
  16. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Nothing much to do about it now but have some laughs, please:




    Seems, many Eastern European countries are getting back to socialism (true in two countries the ones who lost were female candidates). Hopefully, it won't look ~similar to 1939.
     
  17. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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    that voice is incredibly grating, I can't listen at all to this
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Not my problem, mate. Take your time if you need to.
     
  19. Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

    Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

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    Kick me out from medivhs turet.
    If u ask me ,i would send the kids(Hillary and Trump) to the sun.
    When i see politicans like Hillary and Trump,then i think about "god,what happend to this world?", or about "what the fuck... Is... This... Fucking... election",thats all i have to say.
    #IQuitLife #justKidding #ImDone
     
  20. BlargHonk

    BlargHonk

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    Yes as opposed to a country where you can be arrested for mean words. We're the children.