Un'Goro Crater

This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Story

This ancient crater in the south of Kalimdor has been the home of prehistoric creatures for ages.
Recently, fire elementals, goblins and other horrors have made of this unexplored land their home.

Tactics

This is a rather large 1v1 map with one expansion per player, a tavern near the starter location, two goblin merchants, two goblin labs, and a fountain of health in the middle.
The goblin labs can be used to hire zeppelins and reach the red camps on the mountains.

Map Specifics

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Players
2

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Creep Camps
6 10 3

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Neutral Buildings
7

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Gold Mines
4

F16bKJm.png

CshWth6.png

XQJueUg.png


YKTVKEd.png

SXdLgco.png

XxrdxB2.png
XTWaotn.png

[2018-10-08]-Uploaded

[2018-10-09]-Updated
-Creep camps and loot reworked to make the map more balanced
-Added more trees and more doodads, like water bubbles, shrubs, etc
-Deleted isolated canopy trees that could cause pathing problems
-Fog density slighty lowered (it was too green)

I added a new camp, I feel like it's a bit too close to the golem+lizard camp, but I wanted to make use of that empty space.
I might change completely the middle by putting the tavern there, and adding some merc camps at some point too, but I'll leave it this way for now because I don't want to make too many changes in too little time.


Authors Notes

Hello! This is my very first melee map (and the first map I upload), I'm not very experienced in map-making and especially not melee yet, so any advice or complaints about terrain, creep camps, and how to make the map more balanced and competitive are welcome :)

This map is based on the Un'Goro Crater zone from World of Warcraft, so I tried to make the creep camps "fit" thematically with the monsters you encounter in the game. There aren't many dinosaurs in wc3 so I tried to add some hydras and the Fire Revenants are meant to represent Fire Elementals.

The center had originally more fire and the creep camp had a Death Revenant instead, but I decided to add grass so I could add a Fountain of Life, and a Bronze Dragon so it would require more anti-air or air units to clear it.

That's all I think, I hope you guys like my map and enjoy playing it!
Previews
Contents

Un'Goro Crater (Map)

Reviews
WolfFarkas
Hello, there, welcome to the Hiveworkshop!!!. Now that map is very very awsome, !! Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Poll You could have participated here, hope you stay here for the 3rd contest that will be contested in the.... in the future (maybe...
deepstrasz
Not all heroes appear in the Tavern. Go to the menu bar->Scenario->Map Options->Game Data Set-> Melee (Latest Patch). Your map's status isn't considered melee (on the right of the lower bar) probably because of something you've edited like custom...
Level 27
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
1,570
Hello, there, welcome to the Hiveworkshop!!!. Now that map is very very awsome, !!
Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Poll

You could have participated here, hope you stay here for the 3rd contest that will be contested in the.... in the future (maybe december-january) but there is nothing oficial, the 2nd didn´t end yet, but there is no 2 without a 3 (a movie title).

so the map, I remember Un-goro region in wow, the terraining is awsome.

there are 2 tutorials that you should read that talks about balance for competitive melee play:

Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
Competitive Melee Map

the rest is experience, by watching competitive plays on youtube, so there you learn about how players camp creeps. Also test the creeps helps a lot.

1) NE use the Acient of War to take orange creep early with an hero and 1 or 2 archers.
2) Undead use the rod of necromancy to raise skeletons and creep orange level 12-13
3) Humans use militia to hit a goldmine and expand fast, to counter the destroyer of the undeads in tier 2.
4) orcs have the blademaster and hit specific units to get items and rund, wind walk, plus damage, crit hit. Orcs are weak to poison, because they don´t heal themself, or waste money at shop for healing potions (wich delays your competitive play)


okay now to the map review:

good things of the map:

1) Awsome terraining and theme.
2) Very Good neutral position
3) Walking distances are good
4) Simetry, perfect
5) I like the strategic use of cliff
6) Loot is good
7) the multiple paths are very complex, like 5-7 paths from one base to the other. Thats great.
8) No gaps between trees, great!!! keep that way.
9) map has critters, important for the Undead creep, keep that way
10) main bases and expandings have good path options.
11) I do love the areas with rocks and trees that can be taken down and open a path, thats really is a profesional thing, I never did that or think to do that.

Note: you have an excellent level with the editor, so the things that I am going to point are with a hard level.
things that could be improved:


1) Creep in the center, a level 28 creep is almost suicide in 1vs1, nobody will risk go for it and be attack from behind. That dragon level 10 is a hell to take down because is inmune to magic, splash damage and devour. You don´t want to camp that.
There are 2 types of creeps : sleep creeps and no-sleep: the sleep ones are used in fountains and shops. so they can be visited at nigth, the non-sleep creeps are used for goldmines, so people won´t build towers to camp fast.
Sugestions:
1-So I sugest for the fountain sleep creeps, because if not, that fountain won´t be used till the camp is cleared in late-game.
2- I sugest creep camp level 22-23
Fountains are usually placed in the corners, wich are no-used areas. So players won´t domain the map in the fountain in the middle, but secret valleys had 2 fountains pretty much near the middle. Fountains are a complex thing for balance


2) the rest of the creeps, there are poison creeps, slow creeps and AOE (area of effect creeps) in your map. I see you tend to fit the camps in a theme, all lizards, all hydras, all spiders. While that work with some creeps, it doesn´t with other types.

- creeps can be melee, ranged and caster, I think is good to have a mix of them, like 2 melee and 2 ranged, or 3 melee and 1 healer.
there is when selecting the creeps has a lot of fun, because the type and skills will define if is nice to creep it.

to much ranged is weak for melee, and to much melee can be vulnerable to air. Mix I think makes is interesting, wc3 is like wow, you have the tank, the healer and damage in creeps. Here you can explore and play with the combination:

My sugestions, mind the skills, some skills can be hard,

a) like poison and slow together, in your hidra - sludge camp mix.
even the level 1 have slow, you don´t want to creep that till tier 2.

b) all lizzards, they have splash damage / AOE, so it damage many units, and for militia creep, is kinda hard. When I put Lizzards, I put 1 or 2, 4 lizzards maybe is to much and redundant, since melee is missing. The 2 lizzards in the green camp is ok.

c) the fire-revenant, golems, to much melee and level 27 is hard,

d) creeps with mana burn is considered an instant veto in competitive. Probably because of this: if you go for that creep your hero is mana burned, I appear behind as NE with my demon hunter, I mana burn you, your hero is done for, no mana no, skills, that goes for the thunder lizzards level 7 violet.

e) I think the creep camp of the goblin market is to weak, level 7, I always put an orange creep for the market. Also melee units are missing

f) I would add 1 green more, and an orange more creeps, for experience. the red ones are always for late game.

3) Loot, it can be better, I sugest you to see mafe maps, Mr.Henci maps, or if you want to see my maps, I sugest you to see the last one I did for the melee contest. The idea always is to do it or try to do it manually, considering, charged, permanent and power ups.
Filmting tutorial explains how the loot should be.
By self experience, In the ROC map Terenas stand, I looted 2 times the cloak of shadows well, thats not good, the idea is to avoid repetitions.

4) wood, I would add more, if you can, you have 1351 trees, I like to have 3000, since you have the saw-goblin machine, that harvest fast, also players use wood for spells NE, heal NE, siege destroy the NE scouts, and open paths.

5) chokepoints: paths always must be wide, bottlenecks are forbidden in competitive melee, if your hero is trapped between armies is hard to manuver/ re-position, the repositions are very important in plays. There are some isolated trees that reduce manuver, I think 8-9 pixels in editor, is a guide to me for wide paths.

6) For competitive melee play, 1 Tavern goes in the middle unguarded (I have many maps with many taverns, I like it), but those who want to reach Blizzard or me in the last melee contest, the tavern in the middle, so it can be reached from any part of the map and resurrect the hero plus contested. I think in your map taverns are very well placed, but the safe option is the tavern in the middle. Also players dont put creeps in the middle because of agrro, so tavern.

7) : for competitive melee reasons: merc camps, I sugest of lordaeron summer as safe option, balance the orcs, so they can buy a healer troll and heal them self early. Also merc camps should be so players can have more fun from those buildings. mafe did a review of the merc camps, I sugest you to read it is quite cool.

8) the expanding golmines have aggro: if I am in the goblin lab and I want to go to the goblin market , using the goldmine path I will have agrro, in competitive melee play aggro is a bug (go from A to B and be attacked by creeps with no intention fo attack but to travel).
I sugest to put the goldmines very near the clif and test the aggro.

Overall


"I'm not very experienced in map-making and especially not melee yet, so any advice or complaints about terrain, creep camps, and how to make the map more balanced and competitive are welcome :)"

I hardly do this kind of reviews (with this hard level), I don´t like to drown people with competitive melee theory, but since you stated that you wanted feedback for balance and competitive, I put everything, that is like a tutorial. Hope you like reading.


I have to say, I envy this map, it has more quality than many of mine, already approved.

Again the review is in a hard level. Is hard to see a first map with this level.

so

rating 5/5


I hope a map of yours can reach ladder some day (not me, I just mapped as terrainer, learned competitive play much later).




 
Last edited by a moderator:
Level 4
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
29
Just updated everything.
I reworked the creep camps and the loot, the item drops are more mixed now and the creeping is smoother (I only tested them with human and undead though). Creep camps are probably still not perfect (especially the middle, ugh), but I'm pretty sure it's overall more balanced than before. I might remove the fountain of health and move the tavern to the center but I'm not sure yet because there will be a lot of empty space next to the starting location if I do that.

Again, thanks a lot for the feedback :D
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 58
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,611
There are 2 types of creeps : sleep creeps and no-sleep: the sleep ones are used in fountains and shops. so they can be visited at nigth, the non-sleep creeps are used for goldmines, so people won´t build towers to camp fast.
Sugestions:
1-So I sugest for the fountain sleep creeps, because if not, that fountain won´t be used till the camp is cleared in late-game.
Way, I see it, fountains are a big advantage so using them like that at night would be a bit imbalanced (now it depends since the Blademaster could even use it during the day with Wind Walk on etc.) so it would be better to first clear the camp and get the fountain as a reward.
As for gold mines, from what I remember, the creeps instantly wake up if there is any building process within their camp range.
d) creeps with mana burn is considered an instant veto in competitive. Probably because of this: if you go for that creep your hero is mana burned, I appear behind as NE with my demon hunter, I mana burn you, your hero is done for, no mana no, skills, that goes for the thunder lizzards level 7 violet.
That is true, however, using a ranged hero you could attack from afar or stay away with a melee hero until the Mana Burn neutral is dead. Requires some chance besides skill, 'tis true.


  1. Not all heroes appear in the Tavern. Go to the menu bar->Scenario->Map Options->Game Data Set-> Melee (Latest Patch). Your map's status isn't considered melee (on the right of the lower bar) probably because of something you've edited like custom water colour, tileset mixing etc. There is no object data editing though.
  2. The Fountain of Health belongs to the neutral hostile. It should belong to neutral passive. Double click it and choose the neutral passive player as the owner.
  3. The expansion mine is difficult for humans to get with militia because it is far and because the guardians have Slow and Boulder. This camp gives a little reward.

Awaiting Update.


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EDIT:
Changes made,
Approved.
 
Last edited:

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 58
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,611
actually the use of sleep creeps in fountains and shops is somehow to counter the wind walk of the blademaster, NE can create the night time when they want and go invisible, go invisible then run, or the warden can do that and blink like 1000 editor distance.
I know that's why I think the fountain should detect invisible units so the Blademaster won't use it early on. The Warden can't heal if it blinks. I mean, the hero has to stay there near the fountain. However, the Warden also has Shadow Meld which maybe it shouldn't.
The map secret valleys is played that way, visit it in nigth time, till camp is cleared, quite fun actually. But I don´t know if it umbalance the orcs, probably it does.
So, I've seen. The orcs, well, they are like the humans and undead, only benefiting at night when the creeps are asleep.
 
Level 1
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
6
Very nice terrain. Love the idea of bringing WoW locations into Warcraft 3
Had an awesome experience playing this map

But I noticed that golem red camp is too easy to creep if you have siege range units as ballistas and zeppelin or something that can give you highground vision
 
Level 4
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
29
I hate the fact that you literally did better than I did. Btw I REFUSE to think that this is your first map lmao! Good job tho!
Well I'm definitely not new with the editor, but I never tried to make a proper map or anything decent with it before, so this would be my first :)

Very nice terrain. Love the idea of bringing WoW locations into Warcraft 3
Had an awesome experience playing this map

But I noticed that golem red camp is too easy to creep if you have siege range units as ballistas and zeppelin or something that can give you highground vision
Thank you! I'll see what I can do about that.
 
Last edited:
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