Trees....

[Lord_T]

Trees, probably the most common casualties of modern society. Chopped down endlessly and such.. It kind of saddens me how someone can end a 500 year life for the sake of toothpicks..
Do you consider trees... worth saving? I don't mean for oxygen and whatnot, I mean like.. for the sake of preserving sentience... maybe not sentience, but life. They may not have brains, or any thought patterns at all but they strive for life, they adapt, and try to survive. Put a melon in a box and it comes out square. I don't think that's just... normal. Maybe I'm just weird, but i think trees might be a tad smarter than we think. Look at starfish, They're nothing but a nervous system on a muscle frame. But they run from predators, they find food. I mean, If trees can catch flies and the like, they should be thought of as more than they are now.

So... My question is: Do you think there's sentience in plant life?

 

[PurplePoot]

Sorry if it disturbs you, but I think two things.

• Salad is tasty (extrapolating to plants in general), but also Apples, Bananas, etc, are nice.
• We have to eat to survive

While I know you're considering more outside eating, that basically sums my view up.

Where is the "I don't care" option >_>

 

[Instant Ramen]

Trees, probably the most common casualties of modern society. Chopped down endlessly and such.. It kind of saddens me how someone can end a 500 year life for the sake of toothpicks..

Yes, it saddens me also that these old organisms are being chopped down to fuel our explosive population growth, but all things die eventually, whether from old age or the axe.

 

[Elenai]

Ah the trees, ancient creatures and young too...forever growing, until the time of death comes upon them, whether by the axe or the slow decay of time.

Tree's are a neccasary thing to the balance of the Earth's workings. But cutting them down, is a neccasary evil...although I think we cut too much.

 

[ZypherXII]

I have no problem with cutting down trees as long as new trees are being planted.

 

[Pyritie]

I think it's fine to cut down trees as long as we replant them.

 

[Lord_T]

I think it's fine to cut down trees as long as we replant them.

I have no problem with cutting down trees as long as new trees are being planted.

So, with that mentality, you guys wouldn't mind being butchered and used as dog food, so long as your parents had another child?

 

[Pyritie]

The only tricky part would be getting us butchered.

We're at the top of the food chain.

 

[brad.dude03]

I agree that trees need to be cut down. Trees renew incredibly quickly, so its not like we're causing extinction or genocide or somesuch. We chop them down, use them, then plant some more.

Far more intelligent animals, like cows, pigs, etc, are being used for food every day. We're higher up the chain, we get free dibs on everything below us. That's just how things work.

 

[Elenai]

Indeed. Whether by survival of the fittest, divine command, or a simple and plain driving need for dominance...We are above the creatures that are below us (obviously) and we have control over their lives...and what we do with them.

Tree's while ancient and mysterious...are also under the dominion of man.

Life gives us these choices.

"You can destroy nature, to build your own twisted hollow version."

"You can live with nature, work with it, but be above it."

"You can live under nature, and face the fickle wrath of the mother as her elements tear you down."

 

[PurplePoot]

So, with that mentality, you guys wouldn't mind being butchered and used as dog food, so long as your parents had another child?

If I was a tree I wouldn't have much choice, would I?

 

[brad.dude03]

And since trees can't think, they are unaware that choice even exists.

 

[Lord_T]

And since trees can't think, they are unaware that choice even exists.

Trees can't think??
What about venus flytraps and creeping vines?

 

[brad.dude03]

They aren't thinking, that's the most basic of natural responses. They are not sentient, they have no consciousness or intelligent, and only a nucleus, the simplest of thought units, guides them.

 

[Elenai]

From a completely natural perspective (non-supernatural) Trees are indeed, non-sapient.

Only basic instict and reflex guides their ways (as brad has said)

Botanists and others in the field of plant life, have not yet discovered a "brain".

 

[Lord_T]

So i suppose the same goes for starfish?

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes, and every other plant (Such as the Sunflower, which turns to face the direction the sun is shining) that exibits traits of intelligence are only being guided by basic instinct instead of thought.

 

[Lord_T]

Ah.... I see....
Hard to understand instinct happening without a brain, though.
Life really is amazing...

 

[Pyritie]

A nucleus is essentially a microscopic version of a brain.

 

[Lord_T]

Isnt a nucleus more of a control center for a single cell?

 

[brad.dude03]

Basically. A nucleus does not make something sentient. Plants have nuclei, but they cannot think, they are not conscious, they are not sentient.

 

[Hakeem]

They are not sentient, they have no consciousness or intelligent, and only a nucleus, the simplest of thought units, guides them.

A nucleus is essentially a microscopic version of a brain.

I don't think you can classify the chemical reactions of the nucleus of a cell as "thought".
Also, the nucleus is a container, the DNA is more of a control center.

 

[Lord_T]

Wow, never thought the hive could be so knowledgeable...
Learn something new every day, don't ya?

 

[GST_Nemisis]

Trees dont have intellegence in the same way we dont have intellegence. because although we can think and formulate logical and meaningful actions, we are in a way nothing more then a collaboration of mindless chemicals. Trees themselves do nothing intellegent, but the way they are able to grow and survive is nothing short of amazing.

the DNA is more of a control center.

although i know what you are getting at i personally dont like it when people generalise the nucleus or DNA as control centers or central units because it implies there is some sort of logical control there, or some sort of action being done by the DNA. I prefer to think of DNA as a blue print or like say hexidecimal code for a program...something along those lines.

 

[Gilles]

A) Trees catch flies? Which kind? I want one!

B) How can you possibly put trees and human beings on the same level? I can see putting animals and humans equal, but trees? Really?! You cannot compare butchering trees to butchering people. It's ridiculous.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Venus fly traps actually have some sort of setup where the fly stepping on it triggers some sort of reaction and then it snaps shut. Nothing instinct about it. Same with plants always growing upwards. They contain chemicals that promote growth that are dragged around by gravity... so the lower end ends up growing more, and the growth is skewed upwards. Not sure how sunflowers follow the sun, but there is no "intelligence" in plants. It only seems that way because of how intuitive it is, and potentially how hard it is to replicate mechanically.

About cutting trees down, in North America, logging companies are legally required to plant two trees for every one they cut down. I think that there's also other regulations to prevent massive deforestation by logging, but I'm not sure what they are.

 

[Elenai]

Indeed, we are learning from our mistakes of the past.

The Dust Bowl (not a football thing) is a good example of what we did, that we are trying to never do again.

 

[Lord_T]

The Dust Bowl?? That's an artificial desert somewhere in nevada, right?

 

[Pyritie]

No, that's a REAL desert somewhere in nevada.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

I thought the dust bowl was some sort of nation-wide drought in the States a while back.

 

[brad.dude03]

It was. Canada experienced it as well. During the 1930's, we hit a depression. Not only was this an economic thing, but it had physical consequences. The soil had been basically raped by the farmers, and in their greed they suffered. The land turned into hard clay all over the praries. Farming came to a halt. Locusts ate all of the crops.

It was called the dust bowl because the country became like a bowl full of dust. The wind picked up all of the dust, and since all of the soil was loose, it was tossed around. Children held cloths over their faces while walking to school or going outside, they walked backwards as well.

There was no way to keep the dust out, it managed to find its way into a house and coated everything.

May we always learn from this, or else find ourselves in the same situation once more.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

arguably, the dust bowl/depression was one of the most important econimal events in history because it managed to slow the stock market down by practically destroying it. while this seems bad in the short term, in the long term it could have proven an advantage because it lead to improved techniques in banking, money management and lead to an increase in economic growth after the depression happened. this combined with the dust bowl lead to north america completely changing it stance in importing food and the service industry which grew after primary industries, specifically famring, were devistated by the dust bowl.