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The Reader's Lounge

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Keiji, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. BlackEnvyX

    BlackEnvyX

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    Harry Potter's original demographic was for children of those ages, yet look what happened? Because of how well done the story was, it transcended to all age groups.
     
  2. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Got me interested, I just hope I can get my hands on a translated version. I doubt my English is quite good enough to fully understand a book in English.

    edit: Yup there are translations, neat. Thanks for the recommendation.
     
  3. Ralle

    Ralle

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    I am a big fan of Harry Potter. But after having read the Patrick Rothfuss books, I am extremely aware of HP being for kids because of all the errors and imbalanced magic.
     
  4. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I second this. It's quite the difference.
    Though I would have given other reasons for thinking so.
     
  5. Keiji

    Keiji

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    Harry Potter fits better on a screen than in a book, especially if those books are written
    by J.K Rowling. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Rowling is an idiot, she certainly
    made an amazing fantasy, and she does know her plot twisting and character
    development. But her language. The way she writes her books, my eyes bled on a
    regular basis throughout the read.

    I don't agree to the statement that "HP is for kids" however, the Harry Potter story is
    a deep and dark story, it's too complex in some areas and too frightening in others for
    your average kid to understand and enjoy, I'd say. And, also, "errors and imbalanced
    magic", that's a laugh. It's fantasy, nothing can be erroneous and imbalanced in a
    fantasy universe :p
     
  6. BlackEnvyX

    BlackEnvyX

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    I disagree with this man. Primarily why some of the magic in multiple fantasy series seems to awe-inspiring is because of the fact that there is some level of balance. Imagine if in the Harry Potter universe everyone could make themselves immortal, then the magic wouldn't exactly be so special because it would be rampant and break immersion. Balance is key when deciding the powers of a fictional universe because it allows for certain powers when revealed to be fantastic and majestic, if there's no balance there's no "wow" factor.
     
  7. Ralle

    Ralle

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    Right, this is exactly what I meant. A low hanging fruit is the time turner, why didn't they just use one to go back in time and kill Voldemort for example? For fantasy to be "correct" they have to always use the right tool at the right time and never invent something new in a later book without making sure it's cohesive with the previous books.

    Also, something that is completely wrong in Harry Potter is time and age. For example, how the hell could Harry's parents have left him anything? From the books they were barely 20 when they died. They were both aurors and somehow very famous wizards.

    The list of things is much longer, these were just off the top of my head.
     
  8. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    You all need to read Brandon Sanderson's three laws of magic. He makes an extremely interesting argument and case for "balanced" magic, and the application of it is seen in all his books.

    I would throw up links to his blog about it, but my phone isn't cooperating. A quick Google search will pull it up.
     
  9. Gilles

    Gilles

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    I gottcha Death. Sanderson's first law.

    I agree with the general sentiment in this thread. Magic should have balance, but I won't elaborate because you should all just read Sanderson's thoughts.

    The TL;DR: "An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic."
     
  10. Keiji

    Keiji

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    You can't disagree with a fact. Although some religious people try all the time.
    A fantasy world is by definition unrestrained, and completely at the mercy of
    it's author. That said, I do acknowledge your right to have an opinion about
    how good a story is, based on how "balanced" it's magic is.

    Those laws seem interesting, I'll give them a read.
     
  11. Gilles

    Gilles

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    You're right, but I think he meant a fantasy world should be restrained to be good, not that the definition of the word fantasy means there are rules.
     
  12. Keiji

    Keiji

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    Certainly.

    But what he means in the matter is of little relevance to what I meant. If he is going to
    state that he disagrees with my argument, then I expect him to do so on the basis of
    which that argument was founded, and not twist it to better suit his own argument.

    And, to be fair, I'm pretty sure my next sentence, the one that you didn't quote, quite
    clarifies that I acknowledged that truth. I just find it a little rude when people twist other
    people's arguments, is all.

    Also, actually, come to think of it:

    That could actually be a pretty damn interesting read, I'd say. Given some flesh to fit
    the bones, that is, and obviously not set in the HP universe. But given an interesting
    plot, interesting characters, interesting intrigues and topped off with the restriction that
    nobody can die, not by conventional means anyway. I don't know, I don't think this
    argument helps your case as much as it presents an interesting idea.
     
  13. Ralle

    Ralle

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    Then it would be like Minecraft. You care mostly about if people grief and destroy the stuff you build or your owl.
     
  14. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Whoops, I thought you were talking about Sanderson Keiji. I see now that you weren't, and it makes more sense.

    I'm with Ralle and BlackEnvyX though. I don't care for how magic was handled in HP. To quote Sanderson:

    Quote
    Each of these books outlines various rules, laws, and ideas for the magic of the world. And, in that given book, those laws are rarely violated, and often they are important to the workings of the book’s climax. However, if you look at the setting as a whole, you don’t really ever understand the capabilities of magic. She adds new rules as she adds books, expanding the system, sometimes running into contradictions and conveniently forgetting abilities the characters had in previous novels. These lapses aren’t important to the story, and each single book is generally cohesive.


    It seemed obvious to me that JK Rowling was simply making it all up as she went. The deathly hallows are a prime example. I loved the books as a kid, and even then it struck me as odd.
     
  15. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    Yeah, I feel like she had a pretty good idea of where to take things with Books 1 & 2, but after that it suffered from a severe case of "I might as well be writing drunk, because I don't know where I'm going."
     
  16. TheLordOfChaos201

    TheLordOfChaos201

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    what about magic fantasy writers that explain their magic too much, beyond the point where you actually give a damn.

    live read a few books which spend the whole first chapter explaining how magic works.

    in a way it's good, because you aren't suddenly going to be exposed to any hat trick when the hero/villain is losing. example:' oh no you you have me out number and there is no possible why I can escape, but wait! let me use this new ability I just made up! bamboo shewiz I'm free!'

    but it also takes some of the surprise and mystery away.

    you as a reader kind of don't want to know everything. else the world becomes boring, but you also don't want to be left totally in the dark.

    what is the balance point of explaining magic? I write myself and I find that leaving certain unknowns in the theory of magic is a good thing.

    example: magic is comprised of physical and mental energy, but some people when exposed to violent situations release more power then they possess. how you ask? no body knows.

    these unknowns let the reader think for themselves, let them draw conclusions of their own theories.

    what do you think is the key to balancing explaining magic and leaving mystery and surprise?
     
  17. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    Look what my wife got me for Christmas! Signed copies of Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear!
     

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  18. Gilles

    Gilles

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    That's sick. I just picked up Elantris from a used book store that was signed by Brandon Sanderson! Only $7!
     
  19. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    Wow, that's a cool find, considering it was his first published book and I don't think many of them are around, let alone signed.
     
  20. Ralle

    Ralle

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    Holy crap that is a cool gift!

    I am excited for The Fear Saga 2. The audiobook is coming out in a week or so. I listened to book 1 and it was awesome!