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60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

The Greek Crisis

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by UchihaSasuke.gr, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. EloTheMan

    EloTheMan

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    Its not going to be exactly $20, it will be an estimated value in their new currency.

    Anything is possible in China lol
    Its probably a misspelling like 80,00 or 180,00 but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 800,000 since all sources tell different things
    (for example Chinese Official Sources said that the PVA lost around 150,000 soldiers while the US lost 390,000 and South Korea 660,000. US said they lost around 36,000 soldiers.)

    No numbers are 100% accurate, not even mine so don't reply with things telling me that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_war#Casualties
     
  2. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    The official GCSE books / Derp which is fact . Its both in education and taught as fact and anywhere u search you will see this 800 000 casualties, i might of included kpa as well :L. Majority dead. Yes estimate but its close. :L

    Edit:

    Figures to prove this or around it


    KITTEH

    Would of been this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql0B1nNvWPE but it dont load : (
    http://youtu.be/ql0B1nNvWPE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6X3uwsDzf8

    The actual figures herp derp XD


    Also
    Previous Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
    T

    The average estimate of chinese sources which i assume are heavilly bias considering what it says. And how the army was formed. The chinese army was mainly unequipped peasants. Especially after things like the Manchuria crisis, this showed how weak china was at the time. Its soldiers probably had outdated equipment and it would be more of a peasant force.
    Although some of its armies were with modern weapons from Russia and its support.
    Here is another site citing casualties and its history etc http://www.johndclare.net/cold_war10.htm


    Also

    however with the non bias sources it shows from the KPA and PVA that it was 500,000 and 400,000 casualty on average respectively estimated. Totalling an average of 900,000 casualties from both armies

    BBC Pentagon as having lost over 400,000 killed (including Mao Tse-tung's son) and 486,000 wounded. Citing from petagon


    I used $ to show currency/ Since i dont know what symbol iwas mena use. Hence i said create a new currency. This would not cost 220 million dollars. It would cost a few pence for the paper . And thats it. All the euros could be used to pay of some of the debt. And legal tender changed.

    IN a country where anyone has left is 20 value of a currency. They start of equal and it begins again. So no it won't byu them breakfast. Due to the sudden drop in currency amount in the country each part of currnecy is worth more. This counter acts Hyperinflation. And Hyperinflation only gets worse if more money is produced. Thus it will get them more.


    The people are against austerity, there's not much than can be done about it.

    Threaten to invade them maybe?--- Like what happened with German in the Rhineland when Germany didn't pay reperations to France for 2 years. Derp

    Then force them to work like the French also did or use the land and resources there and bring Eu workers . And create jobs.

    Or alternatively if you don't think that idea is too sound or just. Just cut of all funding kick them out of the Eu and the Euro and stop wasting money so they can have the lifestyle there living in. If they go into poverty because they are unable to make cuts. Its there fault for not setting up a stable economy.
    Herp Derp. Not our problem . Sometimes its best to back out.

    Whats the point of investing more into a sunk ship.

    it wont make things any better.

    "Nobody is investing in Europe right now."

    At one point China did some interest it was like a total of 1 billion spread between a few country. BUt yeh did nothing :L
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  3. EloTheMan

    EloTheMan

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    China does some difference when it comes to investments now days.

    The only problem is that as long as the local problems remain, those investments will just be absorbed by the falling market.

    Lower corruption, less tax escaping citizens, stable currency and governmental funds, regulated trading/financing. All that is needed for Greece, and some parts of Europe, to recover.
     
  4. hellblazer-14

    hellblazer-14

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    This is a very sensitive and difficult topic; and I cannot think of any fitting measure to counteract the downward spiral that has gripped the majority of the EU...
    -
    Giving or lending money to countries like Greece won't help imo; considering the amount of corruption as other users have already pointed out, and the fact that many of the people there are not even willing to change their ways to help solve their economic crisis (complaining about having to go into pension a few years later...) of course this is understandable, but considering the 'early' pension age of 65 in Germany, and that of 55 in Greece, there does seem to be room for change.
    -
    Then there are the idiots overseas claiming that countries like Germany and France are attempting to stealthily take over the European Union, I cannot fathom what would compel someone to make such statements!

    Perhaps the only logical solution would be to allow the EU to crumble; making each country fend for itself, this would force those incapable of structuring their own economy and industry to either reform or face the risk of disintegrating completely.
     
  5. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    Actually i would say Germany is trying to take over Europe. Or moreso Germany has taken over Europe. The fact for this is now Germany is the only great profiteerer from the EU. For starters the EU was meant to have a Fair free market. It does not. Germany when joining had a lower minimum wage. So could sell goods at a lower price to other EU countries. Giving it an unfair competitive advantage in the so called "Free market".

    Yes Germany pays the most into the Eu. But its gains are far greater for Fixed trade advantages etc that it makes its money + a huge bonus.
    Hence why all the industry in Europe went to germany.

    Not to mention since the Euro was instated, few other countries were able to devaluate there currency to match Germany's competitive labour wages.
    Germany doesn't even have minimum wage in the some of its economy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country
    Derp then here is a News blog on what "europe is meant to be doing"
    http://www.social-europe.eu/2010/06...for-a-more-sustainable-wage-led-growth-model/

    While germany goes of on its own self gain tangent


    ---Euro effect on german economy http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/04/22/business/20110423_CHARTS_graphic.html?ref=global

    Yeh Euro = Big win for germany due to monopolisation.


    Its already been reported and shown most European papers are showing very anti all who are not part of this great plan "Britain" for one who used its veto.

    I believe a number of Memorabillia or cartoons could be drawn out to show the situation. But here is just one of them.

    [​IMG]

    So we're not idiots overseas.
    Its the truth. And Sarkozy just mooches of Merkel. Since he has no real influence. He just heckels and hapilly is unlikely gonna be in power anymore. France inputs roughly the same as Britain so should be treated the same. But they frankly are not. Britian is side cornered, and this is obvious.


    Yes the Eu should crumble. It would be nice. The Eu is like the LON and these sort of groups always fall in the end. It would be nice to see a 3rd attempt. Or just leave it as it is. Instead of fixed systems.

    The EU should of been the Free Market as Magaret Thatcher envisioned. Not all the bullcrap that we have now.



    Lending money to countries which are sinkholes is pointless. Just let the country die then rebuild it.

    Or make them reset there currency.

    Yes there will be effects from it. But it is pointless otherwise. What would be better to possible devalue a currency slightly. Or to plug all your money into it then realise that even then you can't deal with the deficit.


    The Eu has a 3 place plan to defend against the defecit. It is enough however the first building block is unstable. Therefore making the whole 3 lump sums useless. Causing investors to see it as risky and keep bond rates high.



    Sensitive topics are made for being destroyed. Its like Topics about the Holocaust, Religion or Racism.
     
  6. hellblazer-14

    hellblazer-14

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    Well I agree to a certain extent; mind you I am far less knowledgeable of the subject compared to you ^^
    But I doubt that the foreign press is depicting Germany in a positive light either - that's just the way our modern media functions, everyone attempts to smear everybody. Annnd Germany got the cheaper import costs and cheaper labor because of its war reparations; else the incredible debts would have crushed it and that wouldn't have been much good for the countries siphoning money from it to rebuild their own devastated cities and treasuries.

    It's always easy to point a finger at someone and use them as a scapegoat :/
    But then again, what do I know ^^ politics and the economy are beyond me at this point.
     
  7. Fussiler1

    Fussiler1

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    No, just no.

    The EU has very much resulted in increased wealth for many people.
     
  8. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    They dont need the advantage anymore. Its just pointless.

    Fussiler please show actual evidence to support your oppinion.

    Yes others do profit. But the most prominant of these is Germany. It became the powerhouse of Europe because of the Euro and how it monopolised industry leaving other countries like Greece Italy Spain etc with poor industrial sites and little investement.

    The other group which profits is Eastern europe and the poorer countries. Due to the aid given and little revenue produced.

    So we have 2 people who profit greatly compared to what they put in.
    1. Germany
    2. Eastern Europe.

    Britain does profit to some extent, but is not in the Euro. And if the EU was never set up would still have industry. Grain from America industry inland would of been fine.
    So Britain does not really need Europe.
    France has its farmers and own industry. It does not really need europe as it could survive to some extent also.

    But since the Europe was set up both Britain and France have been entrapped.

    Spain has arid land due to Erosion And its getting worse. They might of been able to cope but its unlikely.

    Im not too sure How italy or Greece would cope without Europe.

    But its plain to see those who would not cope are not really gaining anything anyway. Since of 2 are in Trillion of debt.


    Im not trying to point the finger at who caused what etc. But if the only major profiteer is Germany. And the majority of things seem to be decided by German and its overbearing influence.
    Then yeh im concerned and its likely that there will be somone to blame. And its kind of hard not too in a situation like this.

    Due to such fixes in the system most of Europes industry was drove to Germany.
    Now in fairplay they juts took the benefits. So if they are now one of the only ones to benefit from Europe. Then they want Europe to stay how it is. They are therefore gaining more influence. So it is understandable why they got riled at the veto etc etc.

    But since its them who are involved so much. Its their problem. Not ours.



    Also Yes Britain is sidelined just pick up a paper and read or have a look at the EU's last meeting. Derp

    Britain GNI = 2.28 Trillion
    France GNI = 2.23 Trillion

    Derp
    http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/...&idim=country:FRA&dl=en&hl=en&q=gni+of+france
    http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/...p_cd&idim=country:GBR&dl=en&hl=en&q=gni+of+uk
    http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/...idim=country:DEU&dl=en&hl=en&q=gni+of+germany

    Not to mention how the cap for farming gave the most amount of money to France Germany and Italy and Spain keeping them nice and smug and happy. Mainly to France. DErp

    OR about how in the EU all fishing water are open. So ireland is now Fish free. Literally there is no fish around anymore. There used to be hundreds. But now its almost barron seascape.
    When countries like Germany and France barely have a sea front.
    http://www.euromove.org.uk/index.php?id=9272

    Italy also has less fish in the Medditerannian sea. Same with greece and portugal.

    http://www.euromove.org.uk/index.php?id=15079

    Also how much of the years Britain got screwed over finacially


    Interesting reads about Europe http://www.euromove.org.uk/index.php?id=6477
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  9. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    Europe was adventurer like you, but then took an arrow to the knee. That arrow was fired by Europe itself. Refusing to buy iranian oil. Excellent news for greek economy... Fuck yeah, 2€/litre oil will become reality (that just in east EU), maybe a good chance for Norway to recover from butter crisis. And good move by croatian idiots to enter EU at the right time...
     
  10. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    In the UK we already pay nearly 2euro's for a litre. But instead its in pounds. I think the highest i seen it at £1.35. Which is like 1.62euros. In 2008 this would of been 1.88 euros or something like that. I think i saw that price in 2008/9 so roughly that.

    More recently its been switching between £1.14-£1.26 areas.
     
  11. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    The whole western world could be paying less than half that we're it not for Enviromarxist policies, which have been rampant in Europe for years, and recently infected America. I don't know what I'd do if the Conservatives weren't in power here. The left wing would tax the hell out of our oil industry and I'd be paying $5 a liter at the pump.
     
  12. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    ^ Nope :/ Hating Europe is not gonna help such claim and environmentalists never had so much influence to not allow workplaces so as to keep nature.. It mattered for some places but the majority is far not because of nature lovers. It's all about interests
     
  13. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    Wrong. The Enviromarxist lobby in Europe pushes for green energy, thus driving up the costs of power.

    Denmark pays 0.43 USD/1kWh, Italy pays 0.37, the Netherlands pays 0.35, Germany 0.30. Canada pays 0.6. That's 5 times less. Why? Oil and natural gas. Green energy is inefficient and expensive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
     
  14. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    eh, if it would push for green energy, this so called green energy would already avalaible. And except few countries, European countries don't really have fossil fuels reserves, like in Middle east where you can thrust a pick through desert sand and the oil splashes out.
     
  15. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    Derp Derp---

    Just to inform you. One its not the enviromentalist which drive up the price about >80% of oil prices are deterimined by tax and duty. This would be there even without enviromental polocies. ---

    If your so bothered about the prices of such fuel then just switch to a semi gas fuel tank or a hydrogen tank. Both options almost <50% the price of peotrol.

    Enviromentalists are not that bad, yes there are the extremists who bend on the verge of insubordination and trying to stop progress. But the majority are pragmatic people who seek to combine sustainable and enviromentally friendly ideas with a new work ethic and resource bases.
    As they know that without carefully managing resources at some point sooner than later we're gonna run out. Oil/Petrol runs the world. This is the human race putting all its eggs in one basket.
    Power comes from it, plastic is made from it. Agriculture etc etc. Its become like the sun to us. Without it we have no economy no government no nothing we would be thrown into a ww3.

    So yes its pretty reasonable to search for alternative energy sources even if these are expensive in the long run it will be of a greater benefit as technology and energy transferral efficiancy will increase.

    ----

    Not to mention the major point is coming.

    The main source of energy which is sustainable green and effective/ reliable for producing energy enmasse is Fusion reactors. Unlike Fission reactors Fusion reactors will produce Helium or Heavy Hydrogen molecules so there is no radioactive waste. Upon a number of many great other advantages it is the energy of the future.

    How ever a reactor which can be run for sufficiant time for the reactor to b e efficiant is still an engoing research so we need to buy time.

    Time can be bought through the use of wind energy and solar energy projects.

    --Which will release our dependacy on Petrol a bit.



    _--_ Now for the stupid part.

    What everyone worries about CO2 --- Odd since all life form is Carbon based. And the fact that fuel is carbon chains.

    So really its a pointless circle. And the fact the Sea's and oceans act as a massive carbon sink through the phytoplankton etc that live in the sea makes this whole fuss a bit stupid.

    --The Polar ice caps are gonna melt anyway. And even if they didn't melt the earths sea levels would still rise due to the water heating up from Global warming.

    This is a flaw in our planets atmosphere we can only slow it down.

    (Solution -------TURN THE EARTH INTO A BIOSPHERE !! =D)
    Make a massive glass Dome around the circumference of the earth. These Shutters can allow light in, variate the intensity of the light by blocking parts out then concentrating it, varity wave lengths and also will have an inbuilt defense mechaniscm to block metorites/asteroids. --

    Bad solution:
    1. Takes time to design and no one cares people will think your crazy for even suggesting this
    2. Governments of countries won't collaborate there gonna be pissing about and nothing will get down.
    America this is are sphere space---*Pushes half way into china's air space" --- China "Oi America your in our air space" -- America: "no This is our air space" 3 years later and after alot of conferences and "Diplomacy" The monkeys finally sit down at there type writer and decide to write out a peace agreement and then the President of America gets shot for doing something better for mankind and the cycle continues. Or they settle there difference as it becomes Europe and Russia arguing or The israelites and the palestians"
    3. Your gonna get Advertising on the biosphere -.- now that will suck "Looks up to sky" oh ffs go away Coca Cola idgf about your s*** i just want to see the stars again.




    Also i think you mean "Canada pays 0.06-- if it was to be 5 times less.

    Also this means nothing ---
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-13/electric-bills/51840042/1

    It varies "People living near hydropowerplants paying as little as $0.02/khw

    Yeh Hydropowerplants are "Green energy" They are sustainable"-
    So yeh you can get cheap green energy. Derp herp
     
  16. Destroyer25

    Destroyer25

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    A lot of European countries already use green energy. Not exclusively, but they use more of it than anyone else, hence the ridiculously high electricity rates.

    Wrong, Europe is covered in natural gas shale and could easily be 100% self sufficient if they spent money on it rather than Enviromarxist and Social Democratic policy. But I guess Europe would rather blow their brains out and look like Somalia instead.

    [​IMG]

    And you certainly can't just start digging in the Middle East and find oil. Not all Middle Eastern countries are covered in oil. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey don't have oil or not the same quantity or quality that the Gulf states possess.
     
  17. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    You ignored meh :<

    You didn't even read my argument.

    Derp

    People in canada and usa in areas have Electricity rates at $0.02/1khw

    Which is heck a cheap and its Green energy from hydropowerplants.

    Your map is useless as its inveitable that the world will run of fuel as its not a renewable source of energy. So even if we spent billions on oil mines to dig up oil reserves lets think shall we. Oh wait yeh it will be gone within a few years etc etc.

    Self sufficiant my ass. The idea of self sufficiancy is that it can go on forever.

    This is not self sufficiant. This is just using up an already exhausted supply.



    Also that map is unreliable. It gives "Basin witha resource estimate" And doesn't show the estimated qunatities. or without estimate. Which means effectively it could be a basin marked on the map with 1 gallon of oil and thats it.
    So mechanical man is fine in saying that Europe has no real oil reserves untill you can produce some factual evidence against it.

    The only real oil producer in Europe is norway.


    Also
    "A lot of European countries already use green energy. Not exclusively, but they use more of it than anyone else, hence the ridiculously high electricity rates. "

    Please prove this statement. Considering that europe isn't even hitting its "Green targets" .....
     
  18. EloTheMan

    EloTheMan

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    You speak of socialism as if it were a threat to economical progress, well let me tell you one thing: Scandinavia has the highest taxes and probably the tightest social security politics in the world. Is it on the brink of bankruptcy as Greece or Italy? The answer is no. The only things that ruins economy is irresponsibility or unexpected factors (such as natural disasters). Being dependent on oil is irresponsible because it will eventually run out and it gets more expensive each year.

    Also, if it weren't for socialism I wouldn't be able to study, I would instead work for a low wage to help my family pay the bills for the rest of my life.

    So why does my government use money to allow me to study? Simple: If I get a good education I will probably get a good job which will increase the amount of taxes I pay back instead of living on allowances which costs more in the long turn. When it comes to energy its almost the same, just because its cheaper for the moment it will cost us a lot more in the future.
     
  19. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    Socialism is equally as good as capitalism its just more dependant on how the government is run. There are over countries which have subsidised /free education.
    Also Sweden never had to rebuild its economy from a war xD

    But yeh good point xD
     
  20. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    Bump: Revive Thread ---------------------------------------------------------not necro post
    This time without offtopics :D
    The Greek Crisis Stage 2--Refusing Austerity.

    What will happen now?
    Is this good or bad?
    What are your thoughts?
    Are you happy with the new french president? -- Is he a breath of fresh air for Europe? or is he a downfall for France.