The Darkening Wars v1.42

[Moderator]

04:17, 21st Sep 2008
Gilles: A well made map. The two (more would be nice) races are well thought out and very different. I liked many of the small unique ideas in the map, like the fact that buildings place themselves for zombies, although the placement could use work. I'd also suggest making it so that upgrades to buildings are just upgrades, not whole new ones. Also the amount of units are staggering, and you really have to choose which ones to go with. I thought the pace of the game was a bit too slow until the end though, and that the computers were far too weak to make single player fun.

All in all a good 4.5/5 I'd say.

 

[Royy]

I haven't played the game in multiplayer yet, but first impressions from playing it alone was high. The effort in this map was really evident this is probably one of the best modified (alternative) melee maps i've seen yet. And i was really impressed with the working AI, didn't seem like a map that would have it.

Suggestion wise i can't offer much since i haven't played it greatly yet but i'll add on when i do. I do have 2 right now though, make the graphics on weather optional because it adds a choppy game play (In the top right multiboard why not add "weather is:XXXX)

Also instead of just building an oil rig and an iron mine wherever they please make it so they have to track down the resources. Oil prospectors that can locate where decomposition has happened, and items like that. Iron mines an idea would be from all the destroyed structures (such as the middle) have it so you mine off the remains and refine it for your use. It doesn't have to be that, but it's an idea an oil rig in the middle of the land and a iron mine randomly placed is sort of cheesy.

Also, just one question what is it when your base is bombarded by electric rocks? (something along those lines) It doesn't do anything, but i'm just curious...

And, i think the map is protected (Or uses WEU if so disregard the first part of this message) But i would recommend using a map optimizer such as widgitizer to reduce the map size and the screen load time (It really cuts down the size of custom models)

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Thanks for playing and responding!

In terms of weather: Yes, I was considering changing the weather system somehow so it does not lag the gameplay. Everytime the game changes weather, it lags the game. I really need to fix that.

And yes, this map has working bots! They're not too intelligent, but they serve their purpose. When your base is hit by electric rocks, it's because the AI is using artillery commanded from the Tactical Aid; this feature is not supposed to be working. I'll be disabling it so the bots no longer use this ability.

The reason it's so convenient to build iron mines and oil derricks is because I wanted this map to have smooth gameplay matching that of other RTS games; making a player have to prospect for iron and searching for oil would make it tedious, or at least in my opinion. I may make the resources more limited by location, but for now, it will stand this way. Plus, oil derricks can only be constructed on oil patches (better known to most as blight).

This map was made in WEU, so sorry you couldn't open it. There's a function or two I use from there. I'll be sure to optimize it, and I'll be updating soon when I get a little more feedback so check back soon.

 

[Royy]

Alrighty, played it online some and it went along very well, people liked the map, and i have a couple suggestions.

Have people of the same race be able to ally, such as the humans banding together to destroy the mutant threat.

Second, zombies develop quite faster then the humans, don't you think? Mutants would easily overrun them in the start.

Next, you should make a trigger that acts as a rally point for the zombies if you think it's possible.

I was human in the game, but one of the mutants were saying that the final tier of it was really overpowered compared to the lower two tiers. Such as flying units can devvour ANYTHING which really should be limited to the smaller units.

Mutants need more siege type units/more end tier units that take up less food, because end-game they completely suck against Vulcan turrets and they're pretty much useless.

Please put some tutorials on using humans, i have no clue how aircraft work....all i got was an item?

Radars cause a mass amount of lag later on in the game, can it be manuel detection rather then automatic? or an option to turn it off?

 

[Angry_Bovine]

I'm glad the test went well! I'll be bringing the map online to host myself sometimes soon, then. Did you test with a full house?

Onto responses...

Have people of the same race be able to ally, such as the humans banding together to destroy the mutant threat.

I may make a game type where you are allowed to do this. The issue is, there may be problems with unfair teams and whatnot. If I do this, I will make the loading screen split the forces evenly, so one side will be mutants and the other humans.

Second, zombies develop quite faster then the humans, don't you think? Mutants would easily overrun them in the start.

I geared the mutant race towards an aggressive human player who played with my play style, which I think was incorrect in retrospect. With a bit more testing, I will see if I have to even this out. This game was balanced with a X player v X player setup in mind.

Next, you should make a trigger that acts as a rally point for the zombies if you think it's possible.

The mutants/zombies do have a rally point! When you rally point with the main building, all the mutants rally to that location. I may change it so each building has their own individual rally point.

I was human in the game, but one of the mutants were saying that the final tier of it was really overpowered compared to the lower two tiers. Such as flying units can devvour ANYTHING which really should be limited to the smaller units.

Yes, the last tier is technically NYI and anything there is... unbalanced? >.<
I will fix that as soon as possible. The flying dragon thing isn't supposed to work yet.

Mutants need more siege type units/more end tier units that take up less food, because end-game they completely suck against Vulcan turrets and they're pretty much useless.

I will take this into consideration as well. Vulcan turrets are a bitch for any race when they're sufficiently upgraded.

Please put some tutorials on using humans, i have no clue how aircraft work....all i got was an item?

Ahh... yes, I was wondering if you'd ask that. Aircrafts are NYI at the moment! They do not work! Sorry about that one. I will write the tutorial when I update everything else as well.

Radars cause a mass amount of lag later on in the game, can it be manuel detection rather then automatic? or an option to turn it off?

I will find a solution for this. Either I will do as you have suggested, making it into a scanner sweep (though I really didn't want to) instead of a ping, or I'm going to make it toggle-able.

Thanks for testing, again!

 

[Royy]

Yeah, it was near full house (one computer), it ended with everyone leaving though the Vulcan Towers just really stalled the game.

Also, when upgrading a factory can it produce units faster? Because the time it takes to produce units for humans is really gruesome.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Yeah, it was near full house (one computer), it ended with everyone leaving though the Vulcan Towers just really stalled the game.

Also, when upgrading a factory can it produce units faster? Because the time it takes to produce units for humans is really gruesome.

Yeah, upgrading barracks/factory/airfield decrease the training time. Could it be that it's not reducing it enough? I just don't want to see a tank rush in <5 minutes, I believe the quickest I've clocked one in at is at 7 minutes.

I've never played this game with full house of human players yet, so I have yet to see the balancing with that situation. I will note down what's really bogging down mass-multiplayer games. I should have a few more tests done tomorrow and will probably have an update by tomorrow night or the following night.

 

[Zinive]

This map is fun to play and once the balancing is finished it will be a great map. However i thing tanks deal way to much Area damage.
Fighting human against human most of the infantry becomes useless because they die in 2 shots even when the shell did not hit them directly.

 

[Byaku]

Thanks to try my advice to upload this in map section.

This map is great!!!
I rate it 5/5

 

[Newuser]

Can you make it so teams can be assigned just like regular warcraft 3?

For example, if I wanted 4v4 games or 2v2v2v2 games, etc just like regular WC3.

Also, why do some units not have an attacking sound?

Also there is a bug with spore clusters, they can't teleport as intended.

Another is Acridion units do not move while burrowed unlike what the tooltip says.

Otherwise, really good map.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Thanks for the 5 Byaku! I'm glad I took your advise. Now let me try to address some problems...

This map is fun to play and once the balancing is finished it will be a great map. However i thing tanks deal way to much Area damage.
Fighting human against human most of the infantry becomes useless because they die in 2 shots even when the shell did not hit them directly.

This is definitely being looked into and balanced. While I wanted a sense of realism, it seems that infantry do indeed die too quickly to tank AOE. I will balance this as appropriate in the next patch.

Can you make it so teams can be assigned just like regular warcraft 3?

For example, if I wanted 4v4 games or 2v2v2v2 games, etc just like regular WC3.

Also, why do some units not have an attacking sound?

Also there is a bug with spore clusters, they can't teleport as intended.

Another is Acridion units do not move while burrowed unlike what the tooltip says.

Otherwise, really good map.

I'll see what I can do about making custom teams other than just FFA.

Some units do not have attack sounds because the projectile fired did not have a sound tied to it; I will see if I can fix this. It's been bugging my friends and I on why it doesn't make sounds; it feels incomplete.

The teleport on Spore Clusters is NYI, I will fix that ASAP! I had intended to fix it for this patch, but the blink didn't work so I'm replacing it with a dummy ability and triggering the entire thing.

The reason Acridions cannot move while burrowed is because the model I am using does not have an alternate underground moving animation; if anyone has a solution for this, I will make them able to move underground. For now, they are not able to move while burrowed and I will reflect this in the tooltip.

Thanks for the comments guys, fixes should be coming out soon.

 

[chenlimin]

Mutants seem much stronger than human at early game , get the speed building (upgrade) and those corspe feeder move fast enough to get up close for a hit , after a hit those human will say some stuff and move slower , attack slower or do less dammage, making it hard for them to move out of range to avoid getting kill in a few hits (zombine hit hard)
Edit: AI seem to sucks when I test it with 2 human AI, don't know how well would human players do.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Mutants seem much stronger than human at early game , get the speed building (upgrade) and those corspe feeder move fast enough to get up close for a hit , after a hit those human will say some stuff and move slower , attack slower or do less dammage, making it hard for them to move out of range to avoid getting kill in a few hits (zombine hit hard)
Edit: AI seem to sucks when I test it with 2 human AI, don't know how well would human players do.

Yes, the AI is notoriously bad at playing when facing mutants because they always turn around and try to run; thing is, they usually can't outrun the mutants (because when mutants have speed upgrade, they move 1/220th faster than humans). The reason mutants hit hard is to offset the difficulty at which it is to even get in range of humans. A good human player (using myself as an example) can easily make sure my units are spread out enough (with scout being fodder on the frontlines) to ensure I always have enough room to fire so I never get overrun easily.

If mutants overpowering humans early game keeps happening, I'll do something about it. Otherwise, it's working as intended, because mutants NEED that early power in order to tech faster or else the human player will outrace them with technology via vehicles.

If you want to fight against harder bots, set them on Insane. Insane difficulty computers are harder than normal difficulty ones.

EDIT --- Essential new patch out, 1.04! Gets rid of the silly desync error I had which caused players other than the host to d/c, making it unplayable on b-net! Please download it again, so you get the version without desyncs!

 

[Newuser]

I think you could do AI with Mutants with just the "AI Editor", have you tried or have any difficulties with trying it out?

Since most of the units in the mutants are built just like regular ladders unit, it could be made possible with AI Editor right?

Anyway, good job on the map.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

I think you could do AI with Mutants with just the "AI Editor", have you tried or have any difficulties with trying it out?

Since most of the units in the mutants are built just like regular ladders unit, it could be made possible with AI Editor right?

Anyway, good job on the map.

I haven't tried making the AI for Mutants before because I was limited by the map size, however, now I can optimize it, and I will try to implement a Mutant AI.

The reason I figure it wouldn't work so well is because of how the training system and building system work, but it wouldn't hurt to give it a try.

 

[hookah]

bomber aircraft isnt spawning.
very good map overall

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Ya, neither of the human aircraft work ATM. The way I am going to implement it is have the airfield's inventory as a "hangar," letting you store your aircraft there while they repair (represented by their charges). This way, you can launch aircraft from your airfield realistically, without actually controlling aircraft and having them pause midair when they are inactive.

Thanks for commenting!

 

[Royy]

Alrighty, awsome updates, i only got to play the game for 5 minutes this time though because there isn't much help for humans in the start...corpse feeder rushed and dead basically...if you could make the main building have turrets or something it'd be nice..

Also, have you added allying yet? like humans being able to ally humans (not humans vs. mutants) and mutants being able to ally mutants at will.

And what's up with Vulcan turrets? it seems like they aren't even firing anymore...i did say Nerf them, but against 6 corpse feeders it got one down to 3/4th of it's HP?

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Alrighty, awsome updates, i only got to play the game for 5 minutes this time though because there isn't much help for humans in the start...corpse feeder rushed and dead basically...if you could make the main building have turrets or something it'd be nice..

Also, have you added allying yet? like humans being able to ally humans (not humans vs. mutants) and mutants being able to ally mutants at will.

And what's up with Vulcan turrets? it seems like they aren't even firing anymore...i did say Nerf them, but against 6 corpse feeders it got one down to 3/4th of it's HP?

The ally thing... I'm so conflicted on it is the reason I'm taking so long to make a decision of what to implement for it. I'll be sure to update you on what it comes down to.

I've been slowly fixing the speed at which mutants can rush. What is your early build rotation? I have an anti-rush one (Iron Mine, Oil Derrick, Barracks, Scout Squad, Iron Mine, etc). This way, you get your first 3 infantry by the time they send their first pair of scouting zombies. I will continue giving humans the option to speed up their rush more and more until it feels a bit more on par with mutants. I've recently modified the iron income detriment to be reduced early game and mid game but minimally worse late game. Expect many new changes to come to the Darkening War's early and mid games.

As for the vulcan, it has always been notoriously bad at killing mutants, especially early on and now with the increased spinup time. I will be considering changing its attack type to make it more effective against mutants (which it was too ineffective against) and less effective against vehicles (which is was too good against).

The last few versions were a bit rushed, but now I've managed to hit a weekend and I'll have good time to test quite a few games. Thanks for keeping your eye on my map. It's appreciated!

 

[Royy]

Ah, i played abit blind eye'd that game and didn't do much in terms of defense...because it was about 5 minutes in. But, uhm what you really need is to offer some help to the humans information-wise i think about all of the humans were dead in the first 10 minutes because of not knowing what to do.

Also, could you give defeated players vision of the entire map or something?

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Ah, i played abit blind eye'd that game and didn't do much in terms of defense...because it was about 5 minutes in. But, uhm what you really need is to offer some help to the humans information-wise i think about all of the humans were dead in the first 10 minutes because of not knowing what to do.

Also, could you give defeated players vision of the entire map or something?

Yup, no problem, you've brought up a great suggestion. I'll get to writing the human guide (though if you're busy reading it you're likely to lose that game, however, there's always next game). And you'll be able to see the whole field when you die.

I'm looking into the weapons/armor system currently to balance it a little better.

The main issue I've had with adding an alliance system is two-fold: In terms of the story line (scrambling for the scraps of humanity will probably create an unwillingness to cooperate, especially when the land is so scarce, while mutants have no real way of "allying;" they are ravenous beings that seek only to assimilate others into their fold) and in terms of balancing. I will not be adding in-game alliances; if indeed I do add allying, it will be done pre-game so you can determine fair teams. This will be in line with most strategy games.

The setting of the storyline, if I never said, was post-2nd Cold War, where nature intervened with its bitter flashfreezing.

 

[Royy]

Not that far into my first game of this version but i have two suggestions if you could kinda deduct food off mines/oil derricks that would really help, because by the time i'm fully upgraded 200-250 of my food is owned by my resource producers. And it's somewhat realistic usually you don't expand mines or oil derricks you upgrade the technology on them, and i don't see why that requires more food.

Second, if you could add a "retire" or a "disassemble" function to a unit (possibly a junk heap or a retirement home?) that recycles a unit gives back...50% (or anything else) of the unit's cost?

Oh, and i had someone ask if you could allow placement of mutant structures, it gets extremely crowded and disorganized in their bases.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Not that far into my first game of this version but i have two suggestions if you could kinda deduct food off mines/oil derricks that would really help, because by the time i'm fully upgraded 200-250 of my food is owned by my resource producers. And it's somewhat realistic usually you don't expand mines or oil derricks you upgrade the technology on them, and i don't see why that requires more food.

Second, if you could add a "retire" or a "disassemble" function to a unit (possibly a junk heap or a retirement home?) that recycles a unit gives back...50% (or anything else) of the unit's cost?

Oh, and i had someone ask if you could allow placement of mutant structures, it gets extremely crowded and disorganized in their bases.

The main reason Iron Mines and Oil Derricks have a supply cost is because they require additional staffing as you upgrade them. The technology doesn't necessarily improve when you upgrade their rank; their facilities are just expanded. To improve the technology without increasing your supply usage, just upgrade it at the laboratory. I've made the iron mines and oil derricks slightly more efficient on the higher ranks for my version 1.06 map. They will remain to help balance out the speed at which you can produce up. If there were no limitations, you could just mass the resource structures. When I last played with my friend a few minutes ago, around 50% of my food (or around 100) was used up in resource structures. That's not terrible, especially with a food limit of 300.

The retirement/disbandment idea: I don't know about that one. Were some of your units becoming inadequate/inefficient/useless/obsolete after a while? I try to make the units upgradable so that even into late-game almost all units still serve their purpose, one way or another. The easiest way to "retire" units is to, well, suicide them. Either you shoot them or you send 'em into the enemy's base.

And perfectly for the last idea, I was looking in to make a way for Mutants to place their structures. I believe I have a solution, and it will be out soon.

The next map patch will be big; I believe it will be version 1.10. It will contain several huge changes, including a massive rebalance for mutant units.

 

[Royy]

Ah, okay on the retirement part i just thought it would be a cool idea for humans, but mutants have an extremely hard time on disposing of units through that method since alot of them are obsolete and you still have to produce them.

Also, could you balance the bile launcher? It's an extremely good siege unit that just comes way too early way before i can even get tanks/aircraft out. (about 20 minutes)

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Ah, okay on the retirement part i just thought it would be a cool idea for humans, but mutants have an extremely hard time on disposing of units through that method since alot of them are obsolete and you still have to produce them.

Also, could you balance the bile launcher? It's an extremely good siege unit that just comes way too early way before i can even get tanks/aircraft out. (about 20 minutes)

Yup. The Bile Launcher is being balanced in the next version. It is significantly weaker hit-point-wise (33% less) and does not spawn nearly as often as before (I'd say it went from ~25% spawn rate to ~18% spawn rate). However, it is not intentional that mutant units become completely obsolete later on. The main reason they do currently is because not all of the mutant abilities are done yet. When they are, early mutant units are much more efficient (for at least something) later on.

However, 20 minutes is more than enough time to get tanks. Basic tanks require an investment of about 700/450 for the tank factory, 900/500 for the research, and 400/300 for the lab and academy. That's a total of ~2000/1250 for the prerequisite for a tank. Over 10 minutes, that's 200/125 RPM. A tip to help get tanks better/quicker is to not concentrate too much on massing resource structures; massing resource structures just drives your upkeep rate up.

 

[Royy]

Ah, okay, and also could you add camera zooming commands? when you lower the camera view the higher it, it changes zoom on the camera.

uhm, also maybe mass control commands for mutants? it's abit hard to control so many units and could you balance the pit lord mutant (forget it's name) if you haven't already noticed...it spawns frequently and has i think 2.5k hp.

For the barricades and tank walls could you make the upgrade fortification effect them?

And try something more extreme for mutant rush control, i mean honestly i don't have my iron mines/oil derricks up yet and i'm being hit by 10 corpse feeders is abit unfair, and then i get noobs telling me "it's how the games played" and "if you can't take it don't play human" make it so units aren't produced until you get an upgrade that takes about 5 minutes. 10 corpse feeders 2 minutes in is total BS.

And, why does a higher income take a bigger toll on your iron supplies? i don't really get it...wouldn't it effect your oil? (I've got bunches of oil...iron not so much)

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Ah, okay, and also could you add camera zooming commands? when you lower the camera view the higher it, it changes zoom on the camera.

uhm, also maybe mass control commands for mutants? it's abit hard to control so many units and could you balance the pit lord mutant (forget it's name) if you haven't already noticed...it spawns frequently and has i think 2.5k hp.

For the barricades and tank walls could you make the upgrade fortification effect them?

And try something more extreme for mutant rush control, i mean honestly i don't have my iron mines/oil derricks up yet and i'm being hit by 10 corpse feeders is abit unfair, and then i get noobs telling me "it's how the games played" and "if you can't take it don't play human" make it so units aren't produced until you get an upgrade that takes about 5 minutes. 10 corpse feeders 2 minutes in is total BS.

And, why does a higher income take a bigger toll on your iron supplies? i don't really get it...wouldn't it effect your oil? (I've got bunches of oil...iron not so much)

[Warning: Large amount of text]

Another great suggestion. I'm adding in camera as we say to let you zoom out, zoom in, and reset the camera to default.

The pit lord mutant spawns every 51 seconds and then takes another 40 seconds in an egg. By the time that fat bugger comes out, you should be getting heli's to hunter down their eggs. But if you didn't, I did indeed nerf it already in the version I have and they have ~25% fewer hit points.

Mutants will not be getting a mass move command unless I add it onto a unit as an ability. They have it easy as is; giving them a mass move command is a potential problem. If they can't even manage grouping squads, then they're having it too easy. Mutants is already too automatic, but I'll get more to that later on.

There is a reason barricades and tank traps don't get bonuses from fortifications is because when I was using those two things, it was already way to easy to make my base an impenetrable fortress. It should not be so easy to turtle. In fact, I'm having trouble giving humans and mutants a incentive/increased-capability for assaulting bases (later on) when turtles are finished constructing a massive defense net. I sat on top of my hill blasting down with vulcan towers lined behind my structures and I never gave an inch. I believe I will increase the innate hit points for barricades and tank traps. Barricades is a destructible, however, which is why it gets no contribution, and tank traps are really just meant to slow down tanks.

Currently, it may the way I play, but, I never get zerged down by mutants. I've almost been once, but never lost within the first 10 minutes. (Needless to say, one game, I lost shortly after that.) But if I test a little more, and the average player (I'll get more friends to test with) seem to get zerg rushed like hell, I will slow down the mutant rush rate. I appreciate your concern, but I'll need more testing before I can really nerf something like that. Most likely, mutant hit points will just be reduced a little.

I mean, I'll say another few suggestions here to stop getting killed by rushes: You must have troops early on. Make sure that barracks is within the 1st three buildings you build. And then, just get 2 scout squads. Equal number of human infantry kill equal number of mutant units, at least early on. Make sure you take positioning into account too. Firing down on top of a hill to mutants at the bottom of the hill is most efficient. Next is making sure your units are behind a wall of buildings if they're not at the top of a hill.

However, this is not to say I don't agree with you. Mutant rushes are a little powerful and a little early, as well as the fact that it takes almost 0 skill. I'm changing this. If you make a rush, it will impact you more now as mutants. In fact, you'll have to specialize in rushing. This is one of the many changes coming about to this game.

The only thing that keeps mutants winning is the fact that they can hold you up in your base. If you ever enter their base, their buildings are a joke to destroy compared to human ones. That's the advantage us humans have other their mutants. They have high offensive streaming capability because they must, in a sense. Give a human a few artillery pieces and we blow their base to smithereens in about a minute.

A higher income takes a toll on your iron supplies... now that I think about it, it doesn't really make any logical sense. However, just like how upkeep affects you in standard Warcraft, I do need it to keep a balance on iron. For that same reason, your oil production goes down over time. If you have an abundance of oil and a deficit of iron, purchase the iron smelting upgrade at your laboratory. 15% bonus to iron is a huge boost, and it only costs 200 iron and 900 oil. Don't worry, when the next patch comes out, your iron mines are much more (around... 70 more production on the last rank) efficient. This is to reduce the concentration a human player has to worry about the economy.

 

[lief1]

how are you supposed to fuse the plague carriers to get those plague abominations?

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Patch 1.10 is out! With it, comes many changes and fixes to the mutant race to balance out the game further! Also, a few more utility changes and UI patch-ups.

how are you supposed to fuse the plague carriers to get those plague abominations?

At the moment, that feature is still unusable. It will be implemented soon in the future in a patch when I find the time, along with other changes.

 

[Abaddon]

nice map!

 

[Angry_Bovine]

nice map!

Thanks! I should be coming out with another patch soon to fix up a few things.

 

[Zelf]

Awesome map! Really fun gameplay, and if you do ever find the time, a third race would be pretty nice. Machines get my vote. =D

It would be cool having the machines buildings have to expand off each other... hmm I guess sorta like Sprout TD. Their resources could be Power and some type of metal. I guess that's actually pretty much identical to Human's resources, heh.

Anyway, awesome map. Really enjoy playing it.

A small bug
When Mutants (didn't get this high with Humans) pass 300 supply, it displays "79% Income 7" and also sets the income to 79%.

One question. I never got the weather, blizzard, when playing as Humans. How does it affect the helicopter? One of the helicopters abilities, the landing I think, mentioned that you would need to land it during a blizzard.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Awesome map! Really fun gameplay, and if you do ever find the time, a third race would be pretty nice. Machines get my vote. =D

It would be cool having the machines buildings have to expand off each other... hmm I guess sorta like Sprout TD. Their resources could be Power and some type of metal. I guess that's actually pretty much identical to Human's resources, heh.

Anyway, awesome map. Really enjoy playing it.

A small bug
When Mutants (didn't get this high with Humans) pass 300 supply, it displays "79% Income 7" and also sets the income to 79%.

One question. I never got the weather, blizzard, when playing as Humans. How does it affect the helicopter? One of the helicopters abilities, the landing I think, mentioned that you would need to land it during a blizzard.

Ah, thanks for the great review! You'll see the third race soon enough... if you want to help post more ideas for the 3rd race, go to this link on the Hive forums; it's a thread I created for exactly the purpose of making ideas for the third race!

For the bug: I never knew that! I never got that much supply, so thanks for finding that one.

Blizzard happens to be the most infrequent weather! It is extremely rare, however, it is the most disastrous (which is why it's so rare). When it does happen, however, it quickly kills all air units that aren't landed, doing a high amount of damage every second they remain in the air. That's about it.

 

[Zelf]

That's pretty cool. Love that some weather actually affects the player in more than just slowing them done or lowering accuracy.

Few issues with the game that by no means would make me not want to play but here they are. With humans it's hard to tell what unit type is what, without selecting them. Yes, they have different weapons but they are pretty small units. Also, can't see what military rank a unit is without having to click through all of them.

The not knowing what unit type a unit is I can't think of any easy way to change. But maybe for rank... like command and conquer generals, when a units veteran status increases it gains the military rank icon above their head. Acathla Starcraft Rpg does something like this if you need any ideas.

But hey, even if you can't change something like that, I can live with it. =P

 

[Angry_Bovine]

The veterancy thing is something I've always sorta wanted to do, I've just never really spent the time to make a graphical display above veteran units. If I find a way to do it, I'll likely add it. I think it will make it much easier to identify which units are the most important of your cluster.

The unit type issue being hard to decipher is really difficult to fix. But then again, in normal armies, I don't think it's very easy to identify an engineer from a soldier other than his equipment and maybe his armor decoration. Perhaps I'll make the floating thing above soldiers also have a symbol to represent type of soldier?

Well, thanks in any case, all suggestions help in eventually perfecting this game. And, I'll have to go through this whole cycle again when I add in the 3rd race. At least you guys all help out with the thinking!

 

[Zelf]

True about not easily being able to distinguish a soldiers role in real life. But yeah, if you do veteran status above a soldier's head, including an icon for soldier type would be perfect.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

True about not easily being able to distinguish a soldiers role in real life. But yeah, if you do veteran status above a soldier's head, including an icon for soldier type would be perfect.

Version 1.13 should be coming out soon. I believe I will be testing out a way to allow veterancy to show overhead.

There's also some other features I think I'll list here:
-Iron mines reduce production of other iron mines too close to them
-Iron mines get increased production by being built close to iron deposits
-Iron mines now create a graphical terrain change when built

So, in short, iron mines are getting an overhaul from being able to be built anywhere to slightly more limited (but not by much). This should make it simulate iron mining more realistically.

Look forward to a new custom minimap preview image, as well as airstrikes and a 3rd race! (All in good time, of course.)

 

[Bumkt]

I vote aliens or machines.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

I vote aliens or machines.

It's gonna be machines, with high likelihood. Already have the concepts down, and am implementing them as I can. Thanks for the comment!

 

[Endel4]

if u put machines as a race, how would they be different than humans, would they need some kind of power source or something, like with the Protoss buildings in StarCraft? Also, would they be advantaged or disadvanyegd for being entirely mechanical, mutants would have to have some kind of extreme difference, considering they're entirely organic.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

How will they be different? There will be plenty of differences. I have a few things listed on this link. You're free to think of more ideas to make them "unique." Yes, machines use power. No, it's not the same as StarCraft's "power" system for Protoss. Their unit production is different from Humans, and so is their upgrade system. You can be sure I won't just make a copy/mirror of an existing race. This is one of the important things I strive for in this map.

Being entirely mechanical is both an advantage and disadvantage just like mutants for being entirely organic. What it means is that you're susceptible to things all things that are specifically designed against mechanical things. Corrosive attacks which cause damage over time on mechanical units and structures are one example, and Disable Vehicle is another (which will be retemplated to work name-wise with machines). At the same time, you are now immune to things that hit only organic units.

 

[Ham Ham]

Nice Map!


Note: MLRS attack is bugged

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Nice Map!


Note: MLRS attack is bugged

Thanks! I'm working on the MLRS problem right now. It never seemed to fire quite correctly. The short term solution for this, before I release the next version, is to just use "attack ground." While this isn't working as intended, it should suffice to a degree.

My next version with a bunch of fixes in terms of AoE things and some animation things should be out soon.

 

[Ham Ham]

You could check the MLRS of my WW3 map. My system works fine.



EDIT:
- I also noticed that Tanks and Howitzers will not miss their attacks if you order them to Attack-Ground.
You should make them have a dummy missile attack instead artillery, and to make the attack, create a dummy unit at the position of the tank, and order it to attack. I think you got what I mean here.

- Only 1 computer player is a real match. All others are very weak.
Tip: To make computer attacks more efficient, on the AI, remove the "allow to retreat" thing, or computer forces will retreat right after they lose an infantry unit.

- When I can build tanks, Infantry gets USELESS. Make tanks deal very low damage to infantry (like having to take 3 tank shoots to kill 1 marine)

- You could add an ammo system for all units. Check my Gulf War map.

 

[Angry_Bovine]

I'll probably do that if I can't figure out a way to code it myself. I know it was working at some point. Generally, right clicking on the target you want to hit with the MLRS repeatedly makes it work, but I'll see what you have.

I take it you won't mind if I use your system (and give you credits if I decide to use it)?

Edit - In response to your edit:

Tank and Howitzers: Correct. I will definitely fix this as soon as possible. Not having miss correctly is a big issue.

Computer Issue: I don't know why, when you set more than one comp, the other ones bug out and decide to fail. I'll see if I can get this fixed up. The infantry thing, I'll see about that one too. I might turn it off. Currently, difficulty setting increases the resources comps produce. So, don't forget to make insane bots. They do actually play a little better. However, this is also from the perspective of my most current version, where I already revised bots slightly.

Tank thing: It's always been a problem. But then you think about it: Would you really throw riflemen at a tank? I will probably nerf tank damage versus infantry, and increase it against vehicles to make the game go to proper speed. Grenadiers are the only real infantry that are effective against tanks, and only after researching Explosive Armaments. I'm going to make that research earlier in the tree to be more accessible. Infantry are definitely going to gain solutions against tanks.

Ammo system: If it's simple and lag free, I'd be happy to add it. If I do implement it, it will be "infinite but with reloading," as in, infantry must reload after X shots, but never have to go back to base to get more bullets.

 

[Ham Ham]

Go ahead. All systems in WW3 Nuclear Sunrise are free to be used by anyone. Just give me credit.


You have only to worry about one thing:
on WW3, MLRS must be fired manualy. After you implement to your map the attack ability, the AOE region (A region called MLRS attack, or something like it) and the dummy units, and the trigger, you have to make the following trigger:

A unit is attacked

Unit type of attacking unit equal to MLRS

Set TempPoint at position of attacked unit.
Order attacking unit to Fire Missile Barrage at TempPoint

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Oh, is your Gulf Wars map protected? My WE seemed to crash upon trying to open it. I'm interested in the ammo system.

 

[Ham Ham]

Yes, it is protected.

The ammo system is simple, just add mana to all units, and make the following trigger:

Events
A unit is attacked

Conditions
none

Actions
If attacking unit mana is equal to 0 then do actions
- Set TempPoint Position of attacking - 1000 towards facing angle of attacking unit degress
- Order attacking unit to move to TempPoint
- Skip Remaining Actions

If attacking unit mana is greater than 0 then do actions
- Set mana of attacking unit to mana of attacking unit - 1

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Well, that's simple. There's just one reason it doesn't work on this map: Medics, Shadowtroopers, and Psionic Elites all use mana. (Yes, these are all infantry units. This was the reason I didn't implement ammo earlier. The other reason is because I feel it may slow down the game in a bad way.)