Discussion in 'Contest Archive' started by Spellbound, Feb 11, 2020.
that happened a lot in other contests, nothing new, not gonna give details...
Yep, Sadly I have lurked here for a while and have seen some of that here.
Actually wondered what was going on in the thread you linked, I saw the scores but couldn't find the judging results.
Then I found out that was what was going on, there was just scores given with no explanation at all. Like, I get that there's a lot of entries and all that but... if you nominate yourself as a judge, you should probably at least pretend to try and write something about the entries.
I just wanted to point that even if you have a huge amount of evidence, is very hard to revert a result.
so with this contest, I wouldnt try revert what happened.
bias, favoritism can be tolerated.
What I find very uncanny about the situation as a whole is that, previously, the arena moderator had established that the judging results were being reworked - and then there was a significant delay after that, for the results to be posted with nothing altered.
Personally, I don't mind the delay at all, but for there to be a delay with no changes delivered? It's a pretty significant drop in standard. If there was a longer delay for the changes to actually be delivered, that would have been more than fine.
What the arena mod decides is law.
probably decided to finish this contest once and for all.
and in the contest I mentioned it was decided that the results were approved with a numeric score and no text.
What the arena mod decides is law.
I sugest you to forget all this, play other games like age of mythology,leave wc3 for a while, I unistalled it, that helps.
It's a little questionable which way it's going to go in this instance, but I do know that in past techtree contests the results have been modified in light of poor or substandard judging. As for what the arena mod decides, it was previously decided otherwise, so it seems the decision has already been altered before. Unfortunately, with the thread being approved while it was still in question, it seems like some very poor decision making.
You tried to add yourself as a judge, while this is about challenging a verdict.
Take a look at Model Contest 31. All it took was a conversation with the judge, and the scores were revised, with the host adjusting placement on the same day.
Which, by the by, is exactly how it happened before in a previous Techtree Contest - the judge was spoken to, and in that instance they revoked their results and another judge was appointed.
independent of what I wanted to do, I did while the thread wasnt approved yet by the arena mod, that was my point.
the example you offer, model contest 31, clearly the modification was before arena mod approval,
good to see a judge that wanted to fix things, not always happens
so thats what you wish, a rejudging process?
(I am just asking whats your idea)
Ideally we would have a level of interactivity with the Judge to get their take on it, and if that doesn't go well, then we would seek another judge.
In accordance with the judging criteria, it is a part of that responsibility to be interactive with the users concerning the results, and while there might be minor issues that, while spoken with contestants about, can generally be dealt with easily, there can also be major ones like the ones illustrated here.
As for the Appointed Moderator, it is well within their criteria that they are to enforce a measure of quality control when it comes to the judging, as well as ensuring that contestants are helped. Now, @Heinvers has often been busy with RL stuff, totally understandable, kind of stuff that can't be avoided. There is, however, another Arena Moderator, @Naze, who might be able to help. Failing that, it may be evidence that another set of hands is required in the Arena Moderation team.
I don't know if Heinvers did get in contact with @Nightmare2077 like he said he would some time ago, but I am thinking given the benefit of the doubt, we should absolutely give our appointed substitute judge another fair shot - after all, this is a contest he is a /substitute/ judge in, and as such he was not there from the beginning and sort of has to make judgments based off the end results alone. It's not an easy set of shoes to fill, and hopefully if we have that level of interactivity, we can reach a reasonable solution together. If not, we will find another way. There is always a solution, after all
Hey, I'm satisfied with a new judge. I'd rather have that than wait for Kam to finish doing whatever he was 3 months ago. Come to think of it, he has not responded at ALL in this thread.
Hell, he didn't even respond to my message on his wall forever ago asking how the judging was going. I hear that he's apparently pretty busy but yeah... it's just not looking great from his end.
I had no idea the results were posted (until I was tagged earlier today, which I noticed literally 45 seconds ago).
I've yet no idea what's going on here.
I'll read through it all and come in.
Ah, no problem, we were beginning to wonder if you were made aware of too much of what was going on. I think in some capacity some of us were told one thing, others were told another, from here we can hopefully get something more coherent out of it.
I'm an open guy and I take criticism well. The thing I can't promise is commitment of a lot of my time, as such forum-dramas, even smallscale, are an enormous timesink. I'm quite busy these days (unlike January - therefore I took the contest), so I'll have be brief. This is a shame, because a lot of nuances are lost that way. But this beats my second best option - staying silent, as I of course feel responsibility towards our wonderful community.
I'll not go into the situation itself yet. For now I have two initial comments:
WolfFarkas, you cite Hivecup as an example of a contest gone awry. (I'm by pure coincidence involved with both, heh.) It was very far from perfect, I never denied that. But that's a bad case-study, as far as map contests are concerned, since Hive Cup was an experimental event that involved many people from the whole of Warcraft 3 community. Hiveworkshop was but a part of it, i.e. this was a meta-Hive contest. Therefore there was the difficulty with fixing even relativity big mistakes (coz fixing a big mistake here would have led to an even bigger mistake there). This techtree contest is intra-hive affair only, thus the two should not be easily compared.
Wazzz, I have a specific point I wish to clarify: as far as I'm concerned, there was no underlying reason to the delay between the time I first posted the results (on Jan-11) and the day they were announced/approved (Feb-11/Feb-19). I never heard any talks of my judging being in need of amendments. Did the moderators tell this to you privately? Or am I misunderstanding the whole situation? (As I said, I'm no longer able to commit loads of my time to Hive, so I may have misinterpreted something, both back in January and especially now).
Ah, the moderators did tell this to me in private - if this was not relayed to you, that definitely raises a lot of red flags, but also confirms working suspicions. From what we could gather, we thought it strange that none of the promised "rework" ever happened, especially since this was mentioned to me and there seemed to be that delay.
It was where you posted the results, I believe, and Heinvers then deleted it to check it. But then the check and the whole "rework" never happened, so I don't know what he was doing in that time?
As for availability of time, totally understand - it's definitely unfortunate that this wasn't relayed to you sooner like I and some other contestants believed it had been, but it is definitely good to have it cleared up a little.
-not going to question your opinions about the Hive.cup. I used that case because is the one I have more knoledge, if it was a bad example, sorry for using it,
Hello all. After some consideration I decided that the judging should be revised and I am sure that @Nightmare2077 will do his best to look into it.
Thread sent to the Submission section. Thank you all for bearing with us.
Ah, that is good news. It is a bit of an ask to have someone step in to do the judging after the previous judge was unable to do it, after all, as it is judging the end result of the contest without having been aware of the goings ons of it throughout the contest itself. Hopefully we can get to some results that do make a bit more sense in the context of the contest, and if time is still an issue, hopefully we can find somebody who does have some more time available
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