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Sunken City v2.5.0

This bundle is marked as director's cut. It exceeds all expectations and excels in every regard.
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[Hosted Project Page | Forum]

INFORMATION

CHANGELOG

FEATURES

SCREENSHOTS

TRAILER

HEROES

CREDITS


INFORMATION
Sunken City is a Dungeon Crawler map with RPG elements. The Player controls a hero and has to over come numerous puzzles, traps, quests, enemies and different bosses to reach the end. The game contains multiple different features that allow for advanced hero customization.

Recommended Players: Soloing is possible, but for better experience play with 2 or 3 players.
Gameplay Time: Between 3 and 6 hours depending on number of players and difficulty.
Amount of Heroes: 21
Maximum Level: 18



EasyNormalHardHellInsane
Enemy Handicap
100%
120%
150%
185%
230%
Enemy Bonus Damage
0%
30%
80%
130%
170%
Enemy Bonus Armor
0
3
5
7
10
Enemy Bonus Attack Speed
0%
15%
25%
35%
40%

EasyNormalHardHellInsane
Bonus Gold per Kill
0
0
1
1
2
Bonus XP
0%
0%
1%
3%
5%
Bonus Drop Chances
0%
10%
15%
20%
30%
Starting Gold
100
125
150
200
250

CHANGELOG

186388-albums6607-picture72240.png
Version 2.5.0. [08.03.2024]
Come and play with us in our Discord server! Join here.

General Changes
  • Tooltip fixes.
  • Minor terrain changes.
  • Mastery and Potency values now additionally update periodically during combat in addition to the on-spellcast update.
  • Reset Talents now correctly has a cooldown of 60 seconds instead of 100.
  • The <-stats> command has been removed as stacking info is now available through the UI elements.
  • Base cooldown of abilities in tooltips is now displayed past the decimal point.
  • Fixed a bug where Hunter and Tidewarrior could not be chosen through random hero selection.
  • Fixed a bug where Hero Status Bars, DPS Meter and Hero Custom Resource UI elements were not working.
  • Fixed a bug where flat damage reduction effects could completely negate some of the damage dealt by Nightmares.
  • Fixed a bug where music would stop playing after loading the game.
  • Fixed the Loading Screen to no longer have its text covered by the Loading Bar, which was moved in a recent Warcraft 3 patch.

Classes
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Death Knight
  • Fixed a bug where the Breath of Sindragosa Talent could also damage allies.
  • Fixed a bug where the Decomposition Talent was increasing the damage of Plaguebearer's effect by more than intended.
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Hunter
  • Fixed a bug where Grylls gained 10% more Attack Damage scaling than intended.
  • Fixed a bug where Huffer gained 5% more Attack Damage scaling than intended.
  • Fixed a bug where Spike gained 30% more Attack Damage scaling than intended.
full
Necromancer
  • Fixed a bug where the Life from Death Talent had incorrect chance for Skeletal minions to drop Blood Globes.
full
Paladin
  • Fixed a bug where Ardent Defender's increased Healing taken was not working properly.
full
Priest
  • Fixed a bug where Void Rift could move Demon Portals.
full
Tidewarrior
  • Fixed a bug where Tidal Strike would not gain increased damage while above 25% Critical Strike chance.
  • Fixed a bug where Tidal Strike's visual effect would occasionally appear on the wrong target.
  • Fixed a bug where the Myrmidon effect of Tail Slam could increase non-attack damage.
  • Fixed a bug where the Storm Trident Talent was not working.
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Tinker
  • Inventor's Demolitions effect can now heal the Tinker while below 40% health up from 35%.
  • Fixed a bug where the Critical Strike provided by the Target Locking Talent was not working.
  • Fixed a bug where the Ion Grenade Talent was not doubling the mana scaling it adds when Throw Betty is Upgraded.
  • Fixed a bug where Upgraded Throw Betty would never stun.
full
Windmaster
  • Now has the correct Attribute Bonus ability.
full
Witch Doctor
  • Fixed a bug where the Spiritual Touch Talent's effect for Ancient Ward did not apply on Heroes.


Items
186388-albums6307-picture71865.jpg
Items

  • Skyfeather Crown will now only allow spellcasts to empower the attacks of the Spirit of Aviana if the Spirit is already summoned.
  • Spellbreaker Shield should no longer appear under the Mana Regeneration shop Category.
  • Fixed a bug where Forbidden Seal would occasionally grant more Talent Slots than intended.
  • Fixed a bug where Saberclaws was not working.
  • Fixed a bug where Chemical Armor was granting more Health Regeneration (Stat) than intended.
  • Fixed a bug where Staff of Idrassil would also apply its buff on summons.
  • Fixed a bug where Eye of Discord's AoE effect would not trigger for attacks against non-hero units.
  • Fixed a bug where Sanguine Gaze was not registering damage dealt by summons.
  • Fixed a bug where Spiked Chains was not registering damage dealt by summons.
  • Fixed a bug where Topaz Amulet was not registering damage dealt by summons.
  • Fixed a bug where Embrace of the Hawk's Equip effect was not working.

Archives

FEATURES
  • Diverse Heroes: The 21 heroes in Sunken City possess different custom skills which are well presented in detailed tooltips.
  • Backpack System: In case your inventory is full, you are given a backpack with additional 6 slots where you can carry quest items or unused items for selling.
  • Stat System: Each level you are given the possibility to access the Skill Poitns Menu and gain access to secondary stats (non-Strength, Agility, Intelligence).
  • Item Interaction Systems: Sunken City gives the option to Disenchant items for stats or to Reforge unused lesser items to create better ones.
  • Chest System: There are many Chests scattered around the Sunken City. Opening them rewards you with a random item!
  • Quests: Embark quests that give you side objectives throughout the game!
  • Challenges: Complete difficult optional challenges for additional rewards.
  • Shop System: A simple and intuitive shop system makes it easier for players to navigate and purchase some of the many Sunken City shop items.
  • Rolling: Sunken City allows you to roll for items that suit everyone. Therefore you can avoid stealing.
  • Damage and Armor: Sunken City's gameplay is based around damaging the best target. By mouse-overing your damage and armor you will easiliy understand what's your best target!
  • Gold System: Players in Sunken City share the Gold gained by killing creeps!
  • Randomized Items: Each creature you kill has a chance of dropping one of the hundreds of items, contained in a scripted loot-table. In addition bosses have multiple drops, which add to the replayability.
  • Glyph System: A system that allows your hero to pick a combination of various Glyphs which add passive effects to your hero.
  • Talent System: Each hero has unique set of Talents that can amplify, modify, add or replace the existing hero abilities.

SCREENSHOTS

























TRAILER

HEROES

Intelligence HeroesStrength HeroesAgility Heroes

Shaman [1]
Druid [2]
Priest [3]
Mage [4]
Necromancer [5]
Warlock [6]
Witch Doctor [7]
Warrior [1]
Paladin [2]
Death Knight [3]
Monk [4]
Tidewarrior [5]
Dragon Sentinel [6]
Tinker [7]
Rogue [1]
Hunter [2]
Feral Druid [3]
Windmaster [4]
Berserker [5]
Demon Hunter [6]
Siren [7]

CREDITS

I would like to thank the following people:
Note:
There are many more resources that I used, but I can't find their creators. If you see your resource used in my map, please tell me and I will add you here.


Contents

Sunken City v2.5.0 (Map)

Reviews
Moderator: -Kobas- Contact: Visitor Message / Private Message! Date: 24-Dec-13 (14:27:40)Personal Comment:One of the most polished maps, of its type, that I had a chance to play. Beautiful terrain, nice story, well customized heroes and enemies...
Level 1
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
2
Maybe i am some kind of stupid, but how the hell am i reforging Sulfuras? I have the Eye, i have the Elemental Forger and i am standing close to the Forge. There is still comming something is missing, BUT WHAT THE HECK AM I MISSING? :<
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
Maybe i am some kind of stupid, but how the hell am i reforging Sulfuras? I have the Eye, i have the Elemental Forger and i am standing close to the Forge. There is still comming something is missing, BUT WHAT THE HECK AM I MISSING? :<

You are missing nothing. There is currently a bug with the item, which I am aware of and will fix for version 1.9.2. I appologise for the inconvinience.
 
Level 1
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
6
There were some things i couldn't solved. What to do with with these items ?
Nerubian eggs, Corrupted Essences and Tokens. And where to find King's Scepter ?
 
Level 1
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1
there is a bug!

You are missing nothing. There is currently a bug with the item, which I am aware of and will fix for version 1.9.2. I appologise for the inconvinience.

good day!

you said that you fix the bug (Sulfuras combine), and this bug is solved.

but There are Atiesh combination bugs!

i knew that atiesh needs 3 part, and click one part(frame) to combine. but isn't activate!

ps. I'm not live in English cultural area. so my English skill isn't good. sorry :)
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,801
It is an amazing experience (reminds of WoW and Diablo). Though:
-class items cannot be taken in the backpack of other classes
-the golem where the other two controllable ones are can be killed without using them
-cinematic skip needed, also deselect units during that time
-the door where the Firelord boss is does not really lock; moving the hero in and out of the region near the door may open the door for a slight period
-our ally's town is under attack message during the battle with Kargoth
-the spike trap near the corridor with huntress statues does not kill the hero (player 2)
-the game may crash after many loads; the game does not really support that much cache
-teleporting stones have their own cooldowns; there isn't one general cooldown for all stones (this is a good thing but just saying maybe that was not the intention?)
-really awful dialogues (during cinematics)

A suggestion may be for a bigger backpack and allies' icons in the left to see their life bar during battles where it gets difficult to see them on the screen or even to select them/cast on them.
 
Level 2
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
6
So i'm currently stuck in the area right of the Fire Lord where i have to activate 4 switches to move on and i can't find how to open the door in front of the 4th switch, please help..also got a bowl of water and no idea what to do with it, any help will be greatly apreciated.
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
So i'm currently stuck in the area right of the Fire Lord where i have to activate 4 switches to move on and i can't find how to open the door in front of the 4th switch, please help..also got a bowl of water and no idea what to do with it, any help will be greatly apreciated.

About the 4th switch: to which one you refer to as "fourth"? Assuming it's the one behind a locked door, you need someone to step on the circle infront of the door to open it for you.

The bowl is part of a puzzle that I won't spoil :p
 
Level 1
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
5
So I found 2 royal rubies, can't seem to find the third, found the one in the tree thing by the Dryad lady, found the one that's just sitting near where ragnaros is, but where is the third? Is it even worth getting them all?xD
 
Level 1
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
2
\Is it even worth getting them all?xD
Not in my opinion...

Its dropped by a hermit crab.
He's a fast one.


---

I think there is a bug with the artifact items.

Both the "Key of Life" & "Ysera's Token"+"Nozdormu's Token" open up the door to the "Secret Level Powerup" but it seems like one of them should do the door to "Heart of Wyrmrest" and the other the door to the "Tablet of life".

---

Potentially a bug with tinker as well.
I attached two replays and their corresponding logs from games that crashed.
 

Attachments

  • CARTERJ3-1_030315_125603_replay.w3g
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  • CARTERJ3-1_030315_131305_replay.w3g
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  • 2015-03-03 13.11.36 Crash.txt
    12.8 KB · Views: 89
  • 2015-03-03 13.23.46 Crash.txt
    12.8 KB · Views: 97
Last edited:
Level 1
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
2
Thanks for the info, also I found a Guardian Key while looking for it... Any idea what it opens? I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. haha.xD

Explore a bit more.

There is a door that when you walk next to it tells you "This door is locked and can only be opened with Guardian's Key.".
 
Level 2
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
10
I've played this game around 2 years ago and still keep playing

because you keep update it! it's a great map

But this is 1st time im start curious about the puzzle

I know who is the Moon Guard (maybe?) but why I still can't kill Zerash

Do I need to have a book that describe about Zerash in that playthrough?

Or it's not him he's just candidate
 
Level 3
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
29
Map is fun, but some heroes are still unbalanced as hell.

We played the map on insane the last few days and tried some combinations.

Tauren , Warlock and Ice Troll -> Lost at lvl7

Paladin, Sapper , Necrolyte -> Lost at level 5

Paladin, Sapper, Druid -> Lost at level 6

Bloodknight, sapper, Druid -> Lost at level 6

Tinker, Druid, Sapper -> Played till level 10area without a single death.

Tinker is overpowered as hell. I mean other Tanks struggled vs Bosses, but Tinker does not care. The goblins are still to strong. After he bought the item which spawns these Orange wards the game just became ridicolous. The goblin die and spawn like 100wards. Also the wards have no time limit. He just needed to place 2 Pocket factorys and everything was going to die. Also the item with the wards needs to be nerfed. Wards should last maximum 60sec and spells (like shockwave) needs to damage them.

Also the Necrolyte is imo far inferior to the Druid. The Druid is a better healer and deals more damage then the Necrolyte. Necrolytes first spell should be able to target allies or something like that.
 
Level 1
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8
HI, is there any hard rules, or does make any difference with obtaining "Legend od the dawn"(getting ghost key/moon´guard scepter) and "Broximar´s axe" if u play with (1-20 lifes) or (notime - 2 hours) ? or is that dropping from creeps/chest just pure luck depending on dropping %...THX: )
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
HI, is there any hard rules, or does make any difference with obtaining "Legend od the dawn"(getting ghost key/moon´guard scepter) and "Broximar´s axe" if u play with (1-20 lifes) or (notime - 2 hours) ? or is that dropping from creeps/chest just pure luck depending on dropping %...THX: )

Legendary items are not affected by Timed Mode or Lives. However, Timed Mode significantly increaes Magic Find, so overall you will be getting more items.
 
Level 1
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8
Anyway is the ghost key/moon´s guard scepter only 2 things what can remove the energy barier ?: ) THX
 
Level 3
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
29
I dont know if its intended, but glyph of class mastery does not work with the Tidewarrior.

Also kinda sad, that you removed the necrolyte. Realy liked him.
 

Vunjo

Hosted Project: SC
Level 14
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
1,340
Map is fun, but some heroes are still unbalanced as hell.

Tinker is overpowered as hell. I mean other Tanks struggled vs Bosses, but Tinker does not care. The goblins are still to strong. After he bought the item which spawns these Orange wards the game just became ridicolous. The goblin die and spawn like 100wards. Also the wards have no time limit. He just needed to place 2 Pocket factorys and everything was going to die. Also the item with the wards needs to be nerfed. Wards should last maximum 60sec and spells (like shockwave) needs to damage them.

Also the Necrolyte is imo far inferior to the Druid. The Druid is a better healer and deals more damage then the Necrolyte. Necrolytes first spell should be able to target allies or something like that.

Tinker has always been our hardest class to balance because of its unique playstyle. It's very easy to toggle from useless to incredibly powerful. His strength in general is something that also depends quite a lot on the team composition you've got. For instance, he's even more stronger with AoE healers/buffers or heroes like Shaman and Deathstalker due to their attack speed gain and armor reduction aura which work perfectly with the goblins. It's also very important to note that the way you build him impacts a lot more than builds for any other class. Simple number nerfs sometimes lead us to make him really weak compared to other classes. Anyway, one thing remains certain, and it's that he'll always have small balance issues due to his mechanic, and I believe that throughout the versions he'll receive a lot of different changes.
 
Level 1
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8
HI. There is some bug with HUNTER´S 2-nd spell (Master´s call) which should give on use 4/6/8/10 pet bonus armor, but is still just +4 no matter which lvl of it u have got.
 
Level 1
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8
1.HI! It´s really catching map !!!: ) OK i have got 4 legendary items...still can´t drop that "Broximar axe" what i have read bout here...:_D

2.How can anybody get through this?
http://s24.postimg.org/ut5ypfc91/ss1.jpg

3.How can any get also here...?
http://s7.postimg.org/gyesv48m3/ss3.jpg

4.It´s also possible to go through this wall ?
http://s28.postimg.org/f3455m8t9/ss4.jpg

4.Is this "Hadeis" killable just with Naga hero who can swim to? or maybe its obtainable with random teleport ?...
http://s16.postimg.org/r55ej2ayt/ss2.jpg

5.What about that Gar´thok...its possible to kill him also or its just some lure ? :-D

6.Still cant get some real use for Queen´s Scepter or Filled Botanic Bowl...or get to left/right Master´s Chamber rooms...

I AM THANKFULL TO EVERYONE FOR ANY EVEN SMALL HELP : )(
 
Level 1
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
5
Me and my mates love playing this game. But at around lvl 7 we just get stuck. We have no idea on how to obtain the key of Fenric, or how to open the door at the 3 towers(the ones you destroy by dodging their shots, to hit the beacon behind them and they blow up).

So we just go straight for the lvl 10+ area. Can anyone tell me how to get the key or open the door?
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
@Macelo:
2) It's obtainable by the Warlock Class only.
3) That's a puzzle, which I won't spoil here ;)
4.1) Yes, but with another class.
4.2) Hadeis is an Easter Egg - tribute to a Team Member.
5) Gar'thok is also an Easter Egg - unkillable.

@WuHu:
The door you are asking for is openable by 3 flames. Solution to opening the door can be found in the previous comments. Check them out so I don't have to repeat the same thing here over and over. :) If you have further questions about that same door after you've read the previous comments, feel free to ask again.
 
Level 1
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
5
Thx for the quick reply. I tried going back, but I can't for the life of me figure out what to do :p. Guess, I'm just stupid.
I see the three braziers, but I have no idea what to do with them.

I tried looking at past comments. I can't find anything about that door. I'm missing a 3rd of the content, plz help :).
 
Level 6
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
230
I have a suggestion that I think would make the map cooler. Give the option of a "starting kit"

The idea is that you can choose what to start with. ( you can't for the highest difficulty, that's for extreme players)


Insane: Nothing
Hell: 1 potion
Hard: 2 potion 1 key
Normal: 3 potion 1 key 1 class item
Easy:5 potion 1 key 1 class item 1 random EPIC



Also, I said before (and I know that you considered it) but it would be cool to have saving. What you could do without making the map a mess is let heroes save at specific places. Let's say after you killed a boss. You go to a room and you have an option to save. All 3 heroes must be there(pushing buttons) and when you click on it you can't go back. The code is transferred into your w3 folder like this : First checkpoint-shaman-code XXXX, second checkpoint-shaman-code XXXX...etc

The greatest problem with this map is that I never get to finish it... The last 10 games I played always something happened... This way I could have a lot of heroes at every part of the game. So if I want to play the game with some friends that it's easy. I ask them where they are and I can join the game the same level as them.

I don't know how this would work but it would make the "fix" the only complaints I have with this amazing map!
 
Level 1
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8
@spasorc - is there any use of "use" of Queen´s Scepter or its just lure also ?: ) THX



hehe i finally found 2x tokens and used them, got nice red idem :-D

still not broximar dropped need maybe 100% mf:-D
 
Level 2
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
13
I think there's a glitch with the hunter. Once I got her ult, my poison shot, and multishot didn't deal damage unless they crit. Maybe I was just doing it wrong but they were working before that.
 
Level 15
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,523
Is there any way to check which hero was removed in what version? And is there any way to test removed heroes? Any plans for Deathstalker? Right now he is just kind of boring...
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
Is there any way to check which hero was removed in what version?

The only way to check that out is through the changelogs of old versions, but it may take quite some time.

And is there any way to test removed heroes?

No, unless you find an old Sunken City version that has them. There are many of those in EpicWar.

Any plans for Deathstalker? Right now he is just kind of boring...

I don't have any plans for that hero right now. And according to my group, they love him. So boredom is a matter of personal opinion. :)
 
Level 15
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,523
First there is typo in Marauder bio. Second (redundant) I think you should get rid of WoW model rip-offs, because they are just unfitting for WC3. Third, you could add more heroes if you change some of your models, 3 models are something like 1mb in your map. I see that you really like HD models, but honestly I would go quantity over quality in this case. Just my 2 cents.
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
First there is typo in Marauder bio.
I'll check it out
I think you should get rid of WoW model rip-offs, because they are just unfitting for WC3.
That's just your opinion. My friends and the players I've played with don't have issues with them.
Third, you could add more heroes if you change some of your models, 3 models are something like 1mb in your map. I see that you really like HD models, but honestly I would go quantity over quality in this case.
Well, the fact that WoW models usually take 1mb, doesn't mean that mine do. In fact, I have warcraft custom models that take more space than those WoW models. I managed to find ones that have such low filesize. Let me tell you something. The Rogue WoW model is ~100-110kb. :)
 
Level 15
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,523
That is nice, but I was refereing on Spirit Chamion, Thrall and Blood Mage. Those 3 models are somewhere around 1mb if not more. Are there any plans for Warlord? I think he should be around buffing others, some battlecries, shouts etc., but Marauder is similar to that.. :(
 
Level 2
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
14
Now it is impossible to save the game after reaching the area of lady Dryad (sorry I could not remember her name) because the game always crashes when I try to load the previous save :(
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
That is nice, but I was refereing on Spirit Chamion, Thrall and Blood Mage. Those 3 models are somewhere around 1mb if not more.

Actually, all 3 of them combined are less than 1mb. And you say you were refering to them, yet they are not WoW rip offs. They are custom warcraft 3 models, made by users here in the hive. They don't even have WoW textures.

Thrall, 318kb
Blood Mage, 167kb
Spirit Champion, 194kb

Let me sum that up for you: 679kb total space for all 3 models. First you call them WoW Ripoffs which they are not. Then you make the assumption that each one of them is 1mb or more, which is totally wrong. If you don't like those models, that's fine. But I like them, my users do and I have enough space to afford them. So please, let me mangage my space, because I can do it just fine. Also, try to differentiate WoW ripoffs from THW work next time. Thanks.

Now it is impossible to save the game after reaching the area of lady Dryad (sorry I could not remember her name) because the game always crashes when I try to load the previous save :(

I haven't experienced such an issue. Maybe there is some other problem like disc space or an issue with the other players that load into the game. When does the crash happen exactly?
 
Level 2
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
17
Hey mon,

I have a question,
-what's up with the two moon marks on the southern entrance? Is it a part of a secret quest or just a decor.
-is the item that "seems to have magical property" have a secret use like the Queen's Scepter?

and


You can actually obtain Thoridal very early, given that you have an item that makes you invulnerable or invisible and a stroke of luck with ultrasafe teleporter and you are playing with Siren. I've done it at lvl 6.
 

SpasMaster

Hosted Project: SC
Level 23
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,969
Hey, I need you to be a bit more precise on the stuff you are talking about:

what's up with the two moon marks on the southern entrance? Is it a part of a secret quest or just a decor.

Which marks are you talking about?

is the item that "seems to have magical property" have a secret use like the Queen's Scepter?
I can't recall which item you are talking about. What's its name?

You can actually obtain Thoridal very early, given that you have an item that makes you invulnerable or invisible and a stroke of luck with ultrasafe teleporter and you are playing with Siren. I've done it at lvl 6.

How exactly do those things work together? Invisibility, Siren, Transporter?
 
Level 15
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,523
Hmm, you are kind of rude, for no real reason. First, WoW rip-offs are second question, and model size was third. 2 completely separeted questions. So you are blaming me for calling those model rip-offs because you haven't read those question correctly? Damn, I saw 350 kb on Blood mage, but those are 2 models in it. And I have nothing against those models, actually I really like them, but I thought if you use wc3 modela, you can afford some space for adittional heroes. But whatever...
 
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