Sunken City v2.5.0

[EvilArchmage]

Hello friends!! Please tell me what to do with Zarash, is such a black naga?

His "armor" can only be penetrated by a special crucifix. You can find it further ahead, encased in protective runes.

 

[OldInvoker]

His "armor" can only be penetrated by a special crucifix. You can find it further ahead, encased in protective runes.

Thank you, found a crucifix and kill the naga)))

 

[Sitchen]

I have 4 heroes (out of the total 21) remaining to adjust to all of the things happening in the current version. I am working on one of them as we speak.
I know I may have been saying this a lot, but real life tasks and chores have been the major dent in my work in the past 2-3 months which happens to be the period when I've done the least amount of progress on 2.4.5.

I will get to the end eventually. I am around the final corner, but there are still some more things that need to be finished.

On a side note, I am not really stoked about the release of Regorged.
As I have been looking at the map in the Reforged Beta, it doesn't look so good and I am pretty sure many things will need to be fixed for that as well. But, that will happen after I release 2.4.5, so it won't delay my release.

I just hope that Reforged will not diminish the -year and half- of work I've put into this version.

ETA?

 

[Porkiz]

I've only seen this key twice so I can't provide anything specific. I guess the name speaks for itself - this key is extremely rare. Haven't encountered the object that interacts with Obelisks, lol. I don't know if Magic Find affects these special drops, cause I've been dedicating a Glyph slot just for that.

If you have seen the key, what is behind the door ? Regarding the obelisks, it's an item that was added in last patch I believe (2.4.4-b) and it didn't work back then, fixed with this one (c). I think it was called dark sphere or sth like that, random drop, not so rare as other random drops like the skeletal key or the leaf.

 

[EvilArchmage]

If you have seen the key, what is behind the door ? Regarding the obelisks, it's an item that was added in last patch I believe (2.4.4-b) and it didn't work back then, fixed with this one (c). I think it was called dark sphere or sth like that, random drop, not so rare as other random drops like the skeletal key or the leaf.

Behind the door is a secret that leads you to a legendary item. It grants a lot of stats, don't remember exact numbers. Also there are 3 or 4 Tomes of Demonic Knowledge.
I'll start playing the map, see if I can get that rare drop again.

 

[Quria]

How do I save my progress? Save/Load in the menu is greyed out.

 

[QuadDamage]

How do I save my progress? Save/Load in the menu is greyed out.

If you're playing on Reforged, it's impossible to play custom maps offline anymore as this feature was seemingly removed, which means no saving. If you have access to a version of Warcraft III prior to Reforged, you would be able to save there.

 

[Quria]

If you're playing on Reforged, it's impossible to play custom maps offline anymore as this feature was seemingly removed, which means no saving. If you have access to a version of Warcraft III prior to Reforged, you would be able to save there.

Damn. I have my old client still, but the guys I want to play with don't. Oh well, we'll just need to black out a Sunday and go for it. Thank you!

 

[Porkiz]

ETA?

Also curious on that one

 

[EnterpriseReforged]

Love this map, very well created the terrain is very on point. kudos to not only making it fun with the play it is also fun to look at with the detailed placement of doodads! not going to Lie I played this zoomed in for 20 mins because it looked so nice. 4/5

 

[Ysaelya]

Hello guys. Ive been trying to play this with friends, but first its sad that we cant save. Ive seen some mini RPG when people loaded their save on W3 reforged so it can be working ..
Also, we didnt find the key to open a door after the 2 boss, (the skelet and the demon), ive seen on youtube that the key is suppose to be in flames behind the skelet boss but it wasnt there.
FOr a game with 7h of gameplay, no save is a probleme...

 

[SpasMaster]

its sad that we cant save.

Unfortunately BattleNet save/loading has been disabled for about an year now. It's not something that's in my control.

Ive seen some mini RPG when people loaded their save on W3 reforged so it can be working ..

I'd be interested to see such a game, since Save/Loading doesn't work currently.

Also, we didnt find the key to open a door after the 2 boss, (the skelet and the demon), ive seen on youtube that the key is suppose to be in flames behind the skelet boss but it wasnt there.

Perhaps the video is outdated. The key can be acquired by using the Bucket of Water (located near the Alliance camp) at the flame behind the boss.

FOr a game with 7h of gameplay, no save is a probleme...

I don't disagree that Save/Loading being disabled is a problem, but again: Blizzard disabled it.

And I just want to make it clear that one could reach 7h gameplay if that's one of their first games and they have to spend time figuring out puzzles and such.
A team of 3 players who are familiar with the map and don't have to spend time figuring out how to progress defeat the game in ~3-4h on Hell Standard difficulty. Which would be lower on lower difficulties.

 

[Dess_26]

Hello, everyone!
My 1.27 version game does not see the map at all. What version should the game be so we can play it? I didn't find any info in the description, so that's why I'm asking here.
Many thanks!

 

[Lt_Hawkeye]

Under contents, it tells you the necessary version.

 

[AlexIII]

hi anyone speak spanish?

i have a problem with the map.

which version of warcraft i need to play this map?

inside de game i dont see the map anywhere! i install the map in the download folder, but it doesnt appears :S

 

[deepstrasz]

which version of warcraft i need to play this map?

 

[Krolan]

Kinda silly that this information is only displayed on the Search Function, rather than the actual map-page, so I'm not surprised people keep asking.

Question on my part, does Sunken City by now have a proper save-system? Some of my peeps who are interested in running it are in doubt over that.

 

[deepstrasz]

Kinda silly that this information is only displayed on the Search Function, rather than the actual map-page, so I'm not surprised people keep asking.

It is not. It's way below the map thread description.

Spoiler

The image is zoomed out.

People just don't read. Not saying the position couldn't be better.

 

[Krolan]

Ahh. I see it now. Sorry then, my bad. But I do wonder why some older maps disclose the version right above the download button, while others, especially newer ones, don't :/

What would be really useful for this kind of map nowadays would be a desciptor for having or not having a save-option, as some people can only devote 1-3 hours to one sitting, and if I recall correctly, Sunken City takes 5-6.

 

[SpasMaster]

My previous info on the subject

I will add onto that, saying that Save/Load systems that you see in ORGPs that save your character (name, experience, items, abilities, etc) are by design not applicable for Sunken City.
It's just not that type of game.

Sunken City is a Dungeon Crawler where you are not meant to create a character which you continuously save/load and progress every time you hop on into the game. <- That will also never happen.

What is important for the map to have is the option to Save the state of the game and all characters, stop playing, get back later and Load from where you left of. There's no questioning that.

As I mentioned in the link above, that option was present via the default WC3 menu, but has been disabled for the better part of 2 years now by Blizzard.

A Save/Load system (such as the ones used in ORGPs) can save the state of the character you have, but not the state of the game.
Or well.. I think it could, but that would require a ton of (unpleasant) work.
So it's not a great solution... to say the least.

Considering that according to Blizzard the default WC3 save/loading (which does everything that the map requires it to) will return eventually, I am not willing to put the time and effort into adjusting a Save/Load system into preserving the entire state of the game, assuming it can do it to begin with.

So TL;DR:
- Sunken City Save/Loading has to save the game state, not only the characters you play with.
- Old WC3 save/load used to do that before it got disabled
- Save/Load systems save characters, not the game state (unless configured to do so... maybe)

And I do want to say that I completely understand if some people would be discouraged to go for it because they cannot dedicate that amount of time in one sitting.
That's fair.

As I am working on the next update for the map, I am patiently waiting for Blizzard to fix the default save/loading.

P.S: A team of players that does not play for the first time and don't have to spend time learning abilities, items and puzzles can clear the map on Hell Standard in 3-4 hours. Lower difficulties would obviously be shorter, but a team of players that haven't played much would also need some time learning and figuring stuff out.

 

[Krolan]

@SpasMaster Thanks for your reply! This was quite indepth, I understand the issue now.

And I agree that it would be unreasonable to retool all the puzzles, all the enemies, all the removable Layout to be "loadable" by a simple code. I didn't even know that previously in Warcraft you could successfully save inside the game, so I'd have a few questions about that, but that's something I don't want to bother you with, save for one:

If I get an older Version of Sunken City (i.e. from epicwar), how far back do I need to go to arrive at a version, that works with a wc3 version that allows saving/loading to take place?
( To be a little clearer here, we run anything between 1.26a and 1.31.1 on our WC3 Radmincord (Radmin-bound Discord) so we have wiggleroom there. )


On a different note, while we may differ in our views here, but I am not holding my breath for Blizzard to fix this. They still didn't fix the load-game bug that prevents triggers from working when you load a game, so even if that function was introduced to 1.31.1 (which is running on PTR, but there is portables), the loading of the game could result in specific triggers to fail, as I'm sure you are well aware of. Of course you could be lucky here and never have used the specific triggers affected on your map in the first place. While I have no expertise, I hear that if you use "generic" over "specific" unit triggers, this bug won't affect you.



Regardless, your Map is still great, and the hampering of it for more casual people is clearly not on you. Maybe we'll try to run a "practice game" to get all of us used to the mechanics, and then to a normal difficulty run, or something like that. Thank you

 

[deepstrasz]

@SpasMaster since your map is not 1.32, 1.31 has save-load via the LAN. So platforms like GameRanger would be the way to go for that.

ORPG type saves are nasty to code but they could work as a replacement/fix, heroes being spawned right where they were when the save was made.

EDIT: however do note that 1.31.1 has event trigger bugs related to loading games so those should be addressed: 1.31.1 [Bug] Loading saved game breaks some unit events

 

[deadsword]

I appear to be stuck just after the gold mine (had to buy a level up scroll because I was 20xp off level 7) and I've got the cloak from the vault, but no way to proceed forward. Also I assume the wisp inside the golem's cage cannot be talked to unless you select the wrong switch.

 

[EvilArchmage]

I appear to be stuck just after the gold mine (had to buy a level up scroll because I was 20xp off level 7) and I've got the cloak from the vault, but no way to proceed forward. Also I assume the wisp inside the golem's cage cannot be talked to unless you select the wrong switch.

The Cloak is not necessary for completion of this map. Your assumption is also correct. As for your problem, you have to unlock the door with red runes underneath by destroying Obelisks.

 

[Elvish]

Hello, everyone!
My 1.27 version game does not see the map at all. What version should the game be so we can play it? I didn't find any info in the description, so that's why I'm asking here.
Many thanks!

Your game version is too low,
1.27 can only read the previous map version,
1.32 is recommended.

 

[matias371]

Finally I could get Gar'Thok's axe. It's just a lore item, not possible before end game

 

[Shamu]

I recently played this map a few times with my friends, and found a few things that I wanted to suggest. I didn't read the 169 pages of comments, so some things might have been suggested before, though.

- I find the skill placement in the menu to the lower right to be very unintuitive. On my keyboard, as is the case on all other keyboards I know of, D and F are located below E and R. However, in the menu on the lower right the D and F spells are located above the Q, W, E and R spells. When I played the priest, I used W and D as "those two damage spells I spam", and oftentimes I confused the two, wanting to use W when D was off cooldown. This is because D is below W on my keyboard, and my brain just confused the patterns. Therefore, I would suggest swapping the second and third row in the menu to reflect the layout of a keyboard. Maybe also move D and F to the right, and the ability level up submenu to the left of them. This would be a lot more intuitive to relate spells and spell cooldowns to what my left hand is doing on the keyboard. While this might be a really weird thing for more experienced players, I think it is beneficial in the long run.

- Summons appear to mostly just be in the way. They clutter the map with models that block movement, and I think this is detrimental to a map that consists mostly of narrow corridors. I fully recognize that summoning builds are a substantial part of hero design, but still think that it causes problems. I see that they can soak up hits to divert damage away from the heroes, and that the reduced mobility is the cost for this, but wonder if the reduced mobility is worth it especially with many summons. I should note that I played this only once, with a hunter using the spirit wolf shoulderguards and a murloc summoning naga, and have since told my coplayers that I refuse to play in a group that builds for summoning. Would it be possible to at least partially make summons without collision and click-through? This would recude the problem drastically, while also giving the possibility to have these summons soak hits. It would merely aid to dampen the effect of both positive and negative aspects in very heavy summoning scenarios.

- I think it is a shame that some things are hidden behind RNG barriers. I played through the entire map twice, once solo and once with friends. I then read online that both doors in the masters chamber simply require luck to open, together with a few other things that just require luck. It was somewhat frustrating to not have acces to these parts of the game, simply because the required items did not drop. Even when finishing the game, it feels incomplete. This is a point I assume has been brought up before, and that you might fundamentally disagree with, but I still wanted to bring it up.

- My backpack is cluttered with items that only add backpack skills. I think this limits backpack space too much, since I carry a phase teleporter, the moon key and the pickaxe, recuding my space by half. PErhaps it would make sense to, upon obtaining the moon key, give the moon key spell to all backpacks (of all players), and consuming the key, i.e. not adding it to the backpack. There are not many situations where the players are so spread out to warrant that only one player can open moon key doors, in my opinion. The same goes for the pickaxe. Only the phase transporter would be exempt from this, as it is a bought item. In the end, inventory space was simply a bit too limited due to these items, especially when quest items become involved together with gate/chest keys.

- There are a few grammatical errors or other mistakes:
1. In the tooltip for Colossus Smash, it should be "gains" instead of "gainst"
2. In the tooltip for Thunder Clap, it should say that the damage is dealt to enemies (i.e. "[...] dealing damage (+75% of Strength) to enemies [...]"), as it then refers to "them" in "their auto-attacks", without specifying who "they" are.

I have encountered a possible bug where using Colossus Smash applies the miss debuff even when used in Battle Stance. However, I do not know if the miss chance is just 0%, and the debuff is applied for convenience. Also, This was only on one of the murlocs in the second trashpack after the second ressurrection stone. I might have accidentally triggered the stance swap twice, and used colossus smash in between.

Otherwise, I think the map is incredibly well done, and it really shows that about 10 years of development are behind it. I really like the replay value that is has, in particular due to the interplay between heroes, causing me to use a different hero depending on what my teammates pick.

 

[Kusanagi Kuro]

I recently played this map a few times with my friends, and found a few things that I wanted to suggest. I didn't read the 169 pages of comments, so some things might have been suggested before, though.

- I find the skill placement in the menu to the lower right to be very unintuitive. On my keyboard, as is the case on all other keyboards I know of, D and F are located below E and R. However, in the menu on the lower right the D and F spells are located above the Q, W, E and R spells. When I played the priest, I used W and D as "those two damage spells I spam", and oftentimes I confused the two, wanting to use W when D was off cooldown. This is because D is below W on my keyboard, and my brain just confused the patterns. Therefore, I would suggest swapping the second and third row in the menu to reflect the layout of a keyboard. Maybe also move D and F to the right, and the ability level up submenu to the left of them. This would be a lot more intuitive to relate spells and spell cooldowns to what my left hand is doing on the keyboard. While this might be a really weird thing for more experienced players, I think it is beneficial in the long run.

- Summons appear to mostly just be in the way. They clutter the map with models that block movement, and I think this is detrimental to a map that consists mostly of narrow corridors. I fully recognize that summoning builds are a substantial part of hero design, but still think that it causes problems. I see that they can soak up hits to divert damage away from the heroes, and that the reduced mobility is the cost for this, but wonder if the reduced mobility is worth it especially with many summons. I should note that I played this only once, with a hunter using the spirit wolf shoulderguards and a murloc summoning naga, and have since told my coplayers that I refuse to play in a group that builds for summoning. Would it be possible to at least partially make summons without collision and click-through? This would recude the problem drastically, while also giving the possibility to have these summons soak hits. It would merely aid to dampen the effect of both positive and negative aspects in very heavy summoning scenarios.

- I think it is a shame that some things are hidden behind RNG barriers. I played through the entire map twice, once solo and once with friends. I then read online that both doors in the masters chamber simply require luck to open, together with a few other things that just require luck. It was somewhat frustrating to not have acces to these parts of the game, simply because the required items did not drop. Even when finishing the game, it feels incomplete. This is a point I assume has been brought up before, and that you might fundamentally disagree with, but I still wanted to bring it up.

- My backpack is cluttered with items that only add backpack skills. I think this limits backpack space too much, since I carry a phase teleporter, the moon key and the pickaxe, recuding my space by half. PErhaps it would make sense to, upon obtaining the moon key, give the moon key spell to all backpacks (of all players), and consuming the key, i.e. not adding it to the backpack. There are not many situations where the players are so spread out to warrant that only one player can open moon key doors, in my opinion. The same goes for the pickaxe. Only the phase transporter would be exempt from this, as it is a bought item. In the end, inventory space was simply a bit too limited due to these items, especially when quest items become involved together with gate/chest keys.

- There are a few grammatical errors or other mistakes:
1. In the tooltip for Colossus Smash, it should be "gains" instead of "gainst"
2. In the tooltip for Thunder Clap, it should say that the damage is dealt to enemies (i.e. "[...] dealing damage (+75% of Strength) to enemies [...]"), as it then refers to "them" in "their auto-attacks", without specifying who "they" are.

I have encountered a possible bug where using Colossus Smash applies the miss debuff even when used in Battle Stance. However, I do not know if the miss chance is just 0%, and the debuff is applied for convenience. Also, This was only on one of the murlocs in the second trashpack after the second ressurrection stone. I might have accidentally triggered the stance swap twice, and used colossus smash in between.

Otherwise, I think the map is incredibly well done, and it really shows that about 10 years of development are behind it. I really like the replay value that is has, in particular due to the interplay between heroes, causing me to use a different hero depending on what my teammates pick.

Hi, let me give some insights for certain points:

- Regarding the D and F skill placements, it is affected by the common MOBA skill placement, as well as other RPG maps. So I think it just come down to personal reference whether the placement imo. In the near future, the UI layout will be changed, so I'll let Spas decide whether or not he wants to change that.

- Summon clutter problem has been addressed in the current test version of 2.4.5 (most of them, only Naga heroes still have the problem with this, unless we remove their swimming capability).

- Some features have been added to address the Phase Transporter and the need to buy Staff of Teleportation in order to not waste too much time when doing the teleport. (in fact, your suggestion was pretty close to what Spas did). However, I'm not sure if Spas wants to apply the same treatment to the pickaxe and the key, as well as certain backpack item.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Porkiz]

View attachment 356524 Finally I could get Gar'Thok's axe. It's just a lore item, not possible before end game

Any tips on how to do that. I thought it in unobtainable.

 

[Poduchen]

I dunno, if this question was asked before, but I happen to be stuck at the part next to the Gold Mine with Kobolds in it and a Flesh Golem.
So far I got that you have to obtain a Magnetic Orb to retrieve a key from the water, but I can't seem to find said Magnetic Orb in the first place. I am completely clueless at this point. Anyone could give a hint or two, pretty please?

 

[Senneria]

I dunno, if this question was asked before, but I happen to be stuck at the part next to the Gold Mine with Kobolds in it and a Flesh Golem.
So far I got that you have to obtain a Magnetic Orb to retrieve a key from the water, but I can't seem to find said Magnetic Orb in the first place. I am completely clueless at this point. Anyone could give a hint or two, pretty please?

There should be a destroyed golem south of the boss in the area that you can inspect.

 

[matias371]

Any tips on how to do that. I thought it in unobtainable.

Clues: Only available for naga races, and you need to finish last boss

 

[Poduchen]

I don't know if it's already been pointed out, but during the boss fight where players are given the option to take control of golems to aid them in the fight, if a player takes control of one of them, then they cannot seem to stop controlling them and regain control of their own heroes. The 'Cancel' command didn't work for me and by friend and thus we were stuck.

 

[Senneria]

I don't know if it's already been pointed out, but during the boss fight where players are given the option to take control of golems to aid them in the fight, if a player takes control of one of them, then they cannot seem to stop controlling them and regain control of their own heroes. The 'Cancel' command didn't work for me and by friend and thus we were stuck.

The issue was hotfixed with version 2.4.4c to no longer needing Oris/Temple Golems to proceed with the map, since we cannot replicate the issue in the 2.4.5 test version.

 

[shadowsensei]

came back after 3+ years and was pleasantly surprised by the new update. Honestly couldn't wait to play this in reforged (assuming it is on the agenda)

 

[shadowsensei]

also is it just me or is the background music gone?

 

[Senneria]

came back after 3+ years and was pleasantly surprised by the new update. Honestly couldn't wait to play this in reforged (assuming it is on the agenda)

Until Blizzard gives us a way of changing the scaling of individual units based on reforged / classic graphics it is unlikely we will support Reforged.
You can play it with Reforged graphics, but things might look off (doodads facing the wrong direction, enemies being too large, models missing etc.)

 

[GodofCinder]

This map is probably my favorite RPG ever. Mainly because of the level design and atmosphere.

 

[FelipeVieira]

From what I remember, this map was meant for 3 players, but now the total amount of players is 6. What happened? Is there a version that can be played by six people? I have a large party of people that would love to play Sunken City together.

 

[Senneria]

From what I remember, this map was meant for 3 players, but now the total amount of players is 6. What happened? Is there a version that can be played by six people? I have a large party of people that would love to play Sunken City together.

No, the map is still only possible to be played with 3 people.
It is listed 6 players because AI slots is now listed as players.

 

[Porkiz]

Any news on a release date of 4.4.5 ? I am quite excited and looking forward to it. Honestly, this is probably the greatest map ever

 

[Senneria]

Any news on a release date of 4.4.5 ? I am quite excited and looking forward to it. Honestly, this is probably the greatest map ever

Version 2.4.5 was released roughly 15 minutes ago

 

[Porkiz]

Version 2.4.5 was released roughly 15 minutes ago

WOW, just WOW. More than happy to hear this!!! I've been wondering to ask this question for quite some time but I guess the timing was perfect Thanks for the reply!!! Cant wait to try it

 

[Ardenaso]

what's the latest version again that was last compatible for 1.30.4?

 

[atezjuwel]

Could anyone open the map in game? I'm using warcraft version 1.3.1 and the new map is not showing. It works for the last version of 2.4.4c

 

[SpasMaster]

You need latest patch (1.32) to run 2.4.5

 

[atezjuwel]

But I thought 1.31 is the latest patch for the old client? Does that mean this map now must run in Warcraft Reforged?

 

[SpasMaster]

The map can and, in fact, is recommended to run in Classic Mode of the Warcraft Client.
However it requires 1.32, which you can download with an official copy of Warcraft 3.

 

[nuck001]

Great work!I'd love to give it a shot but unfortunately I've kept 1.31ptr instead of Wc3:R. Maybe I'll install Reforged again when Blizzard re-introduces custom campaigns in the future.It's unfair for mapmakers like you (who had been concentrating on the new WorldEditor) to lose potential players,I get it,Curse Blizzard!

Did you change the storyline?It would be more attractive if someone uploaded some playthrough videos onto Youtube.

 

[Drake53]

If you're interested in making a 1.31-compatible version (seems there's a bit of demand for it), you can use my tool for that: Map Adapter