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Silly things to do with Pheonix self-revival?

Discussion in 'Idea Factory' started by Banelingline, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Banelingline

    Banelingline

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    The way the upgrade works is it specifies the original ability and the new ability, so by specifying only one ability the Hero actually has, it only upgrades one ability. Quickly checking the editor, it's hardcoded to always specify four abilities to change at each level. You don't actually have to have it be versions of the same ability, by the way, you can easily have it turn Animate Dead into Robo-Goblin or whatever.

    A quick check shows that it does not work with Tome of Retraining properly, having quickly tested with a level 3 Goblin Tinker that learned Pocket Factory, then Upgrade while the cooldown was active, then used the Tome with the cooldown still active. It refunded the ability points properly, but Pocket Factory was not actually unlearned, so there was a level 3 Goblin Tinker with 4 total ability points.
     
  2. King Tidus

    King Tidus

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    If you use it 'normally' it wont show up in the box gui on the bottom right

    that is why u gotta do this engineering upgrade thing
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  3. Jake Kessler

    Jake Kessler

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    Be aware this can do some wacky unintended things if the upgrade ability and the original ability aren't based on the same thing. Specifically, values used by the un-upgraded ability aren't always disabled when you upgrade it, so you can get weird mashups of the two effects.

    Example: You upgrade Shadow Strike into Storm Bolt. The tick period value isn't used by Storm Bolt so it doesn't get reset to anything; neither is the tick damage value. The game ends up executing the ticking damage once every frame for the duration of the Storm Bolt stun, causing total damage in the millions.

    (Check out the link in my signature for more about Engineering Upgrade)
     
  4. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    @King Tidus : So this ability is essentially like storm, earth, and fire, but triggered by the hero's hp being depleted right? Do you know if it can spawn multiple units? Can it spawn a hero instead of a shadow (regular unit)
     
  5. Banelingline

    Banelingline

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    And now I'm wondering what can be done usefully with that glitch, but that's not on topic for this thread.

    If you're talking about Pheonix Morphing, you have to set up triggers keyed to the ability activating to get multiple units, as the unit does not die, nor does it have a field for multiple units being spawned. It's also buggy as fuck when used on Heroes as mentioned here. By me.

     
  6. terrio

    terrio

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    i messed with that, and i made phoenix change to blood mage instead of egg, the results were a bloodmage icon with phoenix unit getting stats from hero , on second morph the stats were double, on third, game crashed

    making it bloodmage egg and mountain king normal unit, i made infinte loop which made phenix stronger every egg duration goes to zero

    goddamnit, giving egg ability to mountain king and bloodmage which make them switch vice versa, works flawlessely, making them switch their "forms" every few secs saving the abillities and learnt abillities, this is surely interesting

    note: the map is for 1.29 ptr
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  7. Banelingline

    Banelingline

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    I think what fixed the growth bug to make it alternate was having a pair of abilities that made it so that each Hero was both forms at once. The ability works properly when both have the same version of the ability as shown in the minimally-adjusted version I've attached.
     

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  8. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Wait, so hold on; are you saying the standard Goblin Tinker hero has issues with using the standard Tome of Retraining?? Like, that sounds like a bug, an actual, real bug. That we should report. :O
     
  9. terrio

    terrio

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    well, the heros changing their forms was intentional, but the fix seems fine for someone who wants to hero change their forms on death.
     
  10. Banelingline

    Banelingline

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    So, a thought comes to mind for a new usage of the ability, reminded of a detail of the functionality by messing around with Metamorphosis (the techtree contest has me thinking of all the unit changing and producing mechanics. Sadly, the Acolyte to Shade conversion appears hardcoded). Namely, the alternate form will always be on the timer. This means that you can produce the alternate form, and then it is on a time limit before becoming the "normal" form, which becomes the produced unit on "death".

    This can be used for some odd production methods, such as a "start and go" production method for a self-reviving unit. A rather literal example would be a super-Pheonix that can lay pheonix eggs that then hatch to form standard Pheonix, taking only a brief moment to lay the egg, then the timer ticks on to make the actual Pheonix at a delay. This is a helpful production method for "nomad" techtrees, as you only stop for a moment to start production.
     
  11. SgtWinter

    SgtWinter

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    With Phoenix revival, I'd make a zerg-like egg hatch-thing system thingymajig! Use the Phoenix Morphing to add a timer to a unit, which is an egg, then add a trigger that checks if that unit issues the phoenix morph order to replace it with something like a Zergling.

    Though, I just use it as a neat-looking timer since it can be detected via triggers with the check order condition and doesn't kill the unit like the standard expiration timer.
     
  12. Banelingline

    Banelingline

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    Pretty sure the "canonical" way to do that is actually a large mass of Destroyer Form type abilities, actually. Or UI abuse to have the egg be a "structure" that "upgrades" into the units, changing categorization to switch the units from structures after being specified as upgraded forms if needed.