Shadows over Tirisfal 7.2e

[Moderator]

22:54, 18th Feb 2010
Ralle: Looks fine to me

 

[bhusta]

Yeah, I loved playing your map.

The Heroes are awesome, I did not find any bugs ( until now ) .

5/5

 

[MogulKahn]

This map is good,but DARK NARRU is HORRIBLE man.I hate him and i dont like that a lot of spell is summoning spells.Thats bad in AOS maps.

 

[Piranha89]

This is a slow and skill requiring map, is sort of oldschool and has a lot of unique heros, each one possessing well done spells.
I highly recommend to play this map, my vote will also be a 5/5 and a vote for approval.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Why do you think summonings are a bad thing?

 

[MogulKahn]

U see Icefrog in his map swap summoning spells with some Other spells.U can have summoning spells but i tested 3 hereos and all of them have summoning(thrall,skeletal orc and dark naar).CHANGE NARRU MODEL OR DELETE HIM!!!

 

[Piranha89]

U see Icefrog in his map swap summoning spells with some Other spells.U can have summoning spells but i tested 3 hereos and all of them have summoning(thrall,skeletal orc and dark naar).CHANGE NARRU MODEL OR DELETE HIM!!!

"Icefrog's map" is DotA. DotA is well known for insane nuking and imbalance, a very unfriendly community and imho has a very poor gameplay.
Summoning may be slower than permanent, stupid nuking, but it really seperates the DotA kids from skilled players. If you can handle more than one single unit/hero, you will love those summons and use them to serve your will.
Naaru may be an issue, but I'm sure there will be some players that like that high complexity.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Not every hero has summoning spells, you just happened to play 3 with summonings.
I think summoning spells dont fit DotA's gameplay, thats why icefrog deleted them. But the gameplay of crimson coast has much more room for summonings. they are very important, if you try to push a tower, as they can tank the tower for a short period of time.

out of all things you could hate about the naaru, i didnt think you would complain about the model. i think the model fits a naaru quiet nice, given the resources i had available.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

The next hero I'm doing has a custom model.
And now stop the dota talk already, this is about Crimson Coast.

edit: response to a deleted post.

 

[dead-man-walking]

From other people's reviews, this seems to be a nice map. Gonna try it.
EDIT: Some heroes are too complex. The Dark Naaru, for example, cannot attack AND move. Some players can tolerate a hero without an attack. However, most cannot tolerate those without a movement ability. Even in WoW, a Naaru can move. However, other heroes are okay for me. 4/5 and Approval for now (If you change the Naaru's model, enable him to move and reducing the number of summoning skills, 5/5).

@MogulKahn: Stop typing with chatspeak english and caps. DotA is a good map, but not every Warcraft player likes AoS. DotA's greatest flaw is the "freak" part of the community. The "freak"s are usually unfriendly addicted. I hope you are not one of them.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Thx for your review!
I regret that most people dislike the Naaru so much, however some people still like to play him. Making the Naaru able to move would require a complete revamp. I rather add new heroes to the game instead of doing that, so that people who like to play the Naaru still can. All I can do is warn players, that this hero is not for the faint of heart.
The model: Is there a custom model of a Naaru out there? I would love to add it to replace the current one, then.
As for the summonings, I acknowledged that summonings spells are not wanted, and new heroes I will make won't have such spells.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Thx for your review!
I regret that most people dislike the Naaru so much, however some people still like to play him. Making the Naaru able to move would require a complete revamp. I rather add new heroes to the game instead of doing that, so that people who like to play the Naaru still can. All I can do is warn players, that this hero is not for the faint of heart.
The model: Is there a custom model of a Naaru out there? I would love to add it to replace the current one, then.
As for the summonings, I acknowledged that summonings spells are not wanted, and new heroes I will make won't have such spells.

Ask someone to made it. If nobody could, the last option is to use a WoW model of the Naaru (Yeah, the last resort if nobody could make that).

The summoning spell for the Naaru isn't that bad. However, instead of having 2 weak, short timed summons, it's better to have 1 strong summon with a long expiration timer.

Summoning spells is okay, however, having 2 of them in one hero, or having 1 of them in 2/5 number of heroes in each sides wasn't that okay. You can still add some heroes with summoning spells, however, have some time to create heroes without summoning spells before you ever think of creating a hero with summoning spell.

@MogulKahn:
STOP.
TYPING.
IN.
F-ING.
CHATSPEAK.
Please. For the sake of most people's brain.

Also, it's spelled Naaru, not Narru

 

[vilation]

In my opinion the Naaru is good as he is now.
It´s better to have two summons than one. You can always flee in two different directions or you choose to sacrifice one for a shield and to flee with the other.
The Naaru is maybe not the easiest hero to play(indeed one of the strongest if you can), but you dont have to play him if you dont like him it is as easy as that.

The good part of this map is that it is no so nuke-alike like dota. You dont die so fast here. There are many regeneration items which allows interesting line fights. The heros are well customized and the itemization is great too.

It´s a 5/5 for a great map. Sure better than dota. Dota is maybe the most played map but surely not the best out there. Most played does NOT mean that it is automatically the best available.

@MogulKahn: Stop trolling and using this i-am-11-year-old chatspeak

 

[Bladev1]

On the new version try making it a 6v6 instead of 4v4.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

On the new version try making it a 6v6 instead of 4v4.

in my opinion, in this map everything above 3vs3 is a zerg, with 4vs4 being acceptable. in addition, the effort to change it to 6vs6 would be immense. every game mechanic is geared to 4vs4 maximum. the buff assignment system for example wont work anymore, leading to stacking issues with buffs.

the next version will include new models and skins, among others a nice Naaru model by ACdestinydream, bug fixes and an improvement to the hotkeys (was requested by some people).

the next version is finished when i get the fixed naaru model.

 

[vilation]

In our last game the NagaHero seemed to be a little unstoppable. With a good amount of Manareg he could spam his spells and push lines with almost no effort.
I would increase the manacost of his "siegespell" (~ 35-50), reduce the life of his waterelemental (~ 100-200) its almost like a tank! and increase the cooldown of it (~ 5-10sec). The rest seemed fine.
And what about a glyhe for save port? like 50%-70% reduced dmg during porting (~ 2-4sec longer port?) uninterruptable but the player cannot cancel it anymore.
Or a glyphe which reduce the porting time by 30%-50% or the cooldown of it by 30%-50% ?
And plz make heroes not targetable for the port

 

[ap0calypse]

@MogulKhan: stop it right now, going off-topic is also against the rules (well, you're quite familiar with the rules, judging from your reputation).
Also, stop being a Dotard and do not compare a map to the most popular map in it's genre, rate it for what it is worth... (and DotA would be worth a 6.5 to 7/10).


@Vilation: thank you, each one of your 2 posts contained more (valuable) information than all of MogulKhan's posts combined (which isn't really much either, but still a lot more than you).


I've deleted all off-topic messages.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

thanks, ap0calypse, it has gotten out of control.

----Version 3.20 has been released.----

In our last game the NagaHero seemed to be a little unstoppable. With a good amount of Manareg he could spam his spells and push lines with almost no effort.
I would increase the manacost of his "siegespell" (~ 35-50), reduce the life of his waterelemental (~ 100-200) its almost like a tank! and increase the cooldown of it (~ 5-10sec).

I agree that the Naga is rather on the strong side, but your proposed nerfs are completely over-the-top. Reducing the elementals health sounds fine, though.

Or a glyphe which reduce the porting time by 30%-50% or the cooldown of it by 30%-50% ?

such a rune already exists, its the "Rune of the Explorer".

And plz make heroes not targetable for the port

while it is maddening to be killed with a teleport on yourself by a noob, there are situations where teleporting on a hero is useful. I will change it so that the "victim" of the teleport has the option to forcefully cancel it.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Where's the Changelog? Also, i really want to see an allpick and an AI function. Well, both aren't really necessary (Especially Allpick) but would help.

 

[cl0s3dy]

<stupid question alert> Is that the same Minimap Preview that Tropical Tower Wars uses (TTW) ?

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Where's the Changelog? Also, i really want to see an allpick and an AI function. Well, both aren't really necessary (Especially Allpick) but would help.

I dont know nothing about AIs, so if I am to implement something like that, I need help.
An Allpick mode would be possible, but under the drawback, that I cannot guarantee that it runs bugfree. (I didnt trigger some spells in a way that would allow them to work on the other faction)

The map preview is a Blizzard artwork. Dunno about TTW.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

If you have already downloaded Version 3.20, I have reuploaded a new version. I had to fix a fatal bug, that I couldnt detect in single-player.

 

[un_known]

Love the map, I have to say it is one of my favourite AoS type maps.

For an AoS the terrain is actually really good since most AoS's are all about the heroes you actually put time into the terrain.

-Keep the Naruu BUT change his AoE darkness thing that drains his mana OR increase the AoE damage of it. (It drains the mana of a unit that can't escape.)
-Also I can't remember if there is a mana cost for Void seeker but if there is please remove it since they are his only means of transportation.

A bug I found.

If you kill One of the dragons and you are bellow 19 and you get a Runeslot. Then when you reach 19 you get another Runeslot. (Not the bug)

This means you have 2 Runeslots. YOU CAN'T buy the Rune of Enslavement AND it still takes up one of your rune spaces.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Hello,
Im glad you like the terrain.

I dont really get what your problem is with the AoE spell. removing the mana cost from the void seekers sounds fine (shifting the mana cost to other spells).

I totally messed up with the Rune of enslavement. thanks.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Love the new Terrain. Also, I've noticed one thing: IT'S GODDAMN HARD TO DESTROY A TOWER WITH A MELEE HERO! Maybe buff their health a bit (So we don't need to run here and there to heal with a regen potion (May I suggest you to use a stacking system on pots? ))

 

[Cyclotrutan]

hm, I think this is not because of melee hero/ranged hero. with the furbolg for example, its damn easy to destroy a tower. which hero did you play?

i dont really want to make a stacking system for pots. this would lead to situations where people would never have to return to the base. (this is the problem with the diabolist for example) i dont like that.

if you say you had to run back to the base to often, thats fair critic. i want to make all heroes able to regenerate a bit, so that this never happens. thats why i gave the firelord regeneration abilities for example. maybe the hero you played was lacking in that. but i cant say more, if I dont know which one you played.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

So, another update. Changelog is in the original post.
Since you guys are all interested in the Dark Naaru, Ill share my current thoughts...
Upcoming:
The Dark Naaru will most likely loose his Mind Control ability. He will gain a spell, that transforms him into a giant void monster for 20 secs, 60 secs cooldown. In this form, he can move and attack, Entropic Storm requires no channeling, but his Void Walker minions are removed during this time.

 

[un_known]

Love the changes and really like the new abiltiy for the Dark Naaru.

The problem with Illumination of Darkness that I had before was that it was draining mana and when you accidentally drained so much you could summon your void seekers you were trapped and usually died. (This has changed sicne they cost no mana at all.) You fixed it without noticing really.

 

[Narrat0r]

Personally I don't like AoS's but this one is really good. +rep for good job.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

I replaced the Naaru's ultimate, because it was just too hard to handle. The naaru was so difficult to play, that even I couldnt play him without failing. the void lord form is rather easy to use and it brings the hero even nearer to its paragon, M'uru.

I should make the icon for disabling illumination differ from the one for enabling. you dont see if its active or not.

Personally I don't like AoS's but this one is really good. +rep for good job.

Thanks, man. AoS is my favorite game type. RPG close 2nd ^^.

 

[Dracula555]

a few things i didn't like about the map/a few bugs:
1)blood lich has a spell which steals x+y% where y=his int. the problem: his in growth is 0 and his starting int is 1...
2)towers regenerate... gl finishing a game with pros
3)the map discourages buying items by making the shops all over the map... its just annoying
4)its hard to get gold from creeps, especially when the stat gain is so low so your base damage is too low to last hit without items, while it is hard to get items without the gold from creeps
these were the only probs i found with the map, otherwise its just great =) would be cool if you could add more hard heroes, that dark naaru is really fun to play
5)dragon mage is HELLA bugged his first spell is recall so uhh that dark naaru is dead change his first spell please(master of illusions or something)

 

[tastywater]

Love your map, it's beutiful, the heroes are good and fun to play. Tested firelord and shapeshifter. I think however all the shops should be in the base but that's just my thoughts.

Just a question:
Could you explain briefly how Shapeshifters abilities works?

+Rep for map btv.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Dracula555, ??? your post didnt show up until now (at least for me)
well, ill answer it now.
1.) the int scaling of his blood siphon is implemented, so that int items have an effect on him. the spell is not meant to scale by itself.
2.) the regeneration of towers has been reduced in the latest version.
3.) i hear that often, but still i dont like a design, where every vendor is at the same place. i wanted to reduce this annoyance, by allowing the staff of teleportation to be used on vendors. this will be implemented in the next version.
4.) buying a slayer's rune at the beginning (with your innate gold) should help. i recommend that.
5.) erm.. i guess you downloaded a version, which i updated 15 min later. i screwed up on this ^^

@tastywater: thx alot. what exactly do you want to know? how the triggers work or how to play him?

 

[tastywater]

Just a brief explanation how you made the triggers

 

[Cyclotrutan]

well, ill try.
the hero skills are hidden abilities, that add non-hero abilities to the shapeshifter, when learned. these abilities are point-blank spells like thunderclap, warstomp. when used, these abilities add the proper morph ability to the shapeshifter and order him to use it. the morph is based on robo-tinker. after the shapeshift ends, the script adds the non-hero abilities back to the shapeshifter. another important thing is, that the shapeshifter has innately all morph abilities. they are removed right after he shapeshifts back to normal form. without that, the transformations would bug like hell.

i guess thats it. if you have any further questions, please PM me.

 

[tastywater]

Thanks. Understood enough to make one myself now. +rep again for that.

 

[exalted_one]

pretty good for me

 

[kevin101olorvida]

cool map

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Thanks!

Come on, people! Need some more comments!
Test it, comment about it, rate it

 

[Icedrake]

This is a great map. Are future updates planned, or is it considered a finished product?

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Hello, I'm currently not working on the map. I've switched to Sc2 now. (but im not mapping for it, because the map system just sucks.) maybe i can find someone to continue this map.

 

[nhs325]

HOLY HELL THIS MAP GOT AN UPDATE? AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS? YUSSS!!!!!

 

[Cyclotrutan]

HOLY HELL THIS MAP GOT AN UPDATE? AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS? YUSSS!!!!!

The ideas for this map had piled up in my head over the years. Recently I got into contact with a game designer and had a chat with him about the map and AoS maps in general. So, I suddenly felt the urge to launch the editor again and dabble in some nostalgia .

When you have all these ideas in your head and you're detached enough from your previous work, it's unreal how fast and efficient you can be. It was a lot of fun working on the map again.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

Hey guys,

I had the privilege to do an interview with the great Softmints over at his blog lanepushinggames.com. Go check it out!

 

[Alexen]

This AoS has a lot of nice stuffs implemented into it.
Detailed and enjoyable terrain which fits perfectly its theme. Heroes with interesting abilities which require some brain to cause combos between them. Items that fit the needs of any role a hero may play. The gameplay is totally fine in my point of view, although, hastening it a bit would not hurt. Overall it deserves 5/5, considering the big improvement you made after Crimson Coast (Yeah, I did some research ). Well done!

 

[Cyclotrutan]

This AoS has a lot of nice stuffs implemented into it.
Detailed and enjoyable terrain which fits perfectly its theme. Heroes with interesting abilities which require some brain to cause combos between them. Items that fit the needs of any role a hero may play. The gameplay is totally fine in my point of view, although, hastening it a bit would not hurt. Overall it deserves 5/5, considering the big improvement you made after Crimson Coast (Yeah, I did some research ). Well done!

Thank you!
Hastening the gameplay is something that I have been looking into since I started working on the map again. I reduced the experience required to get to level 10, so that the midgame is entered earlier. I also reduced the revive timer significantly. In the next update, I plan to remove the gold lost on death, and instead add that gold to the killing player. With more gold, you can get to the powerful tier 3 items earlier. I'm trying to hasten the gameplay with 1000 tiny steps .

I might revert the map back to Crimson Coast at some point, or rather make an alternate version. I feel like terraining again .

 

[Alexen]

Thank you!
Hastening the gameplay is something that I have been looking into since I started working on the map again. I reduced the experience required to get to level 10, so that the midgame is entered earlier. I also reduced the revive timer significantly. In the next update, I plan to remove the gold lost on death, and instead add that gold to the killing player. With more gold, you can get to the powerful tier 3 items earlier. I'm trying to hasten the gameplay with 1000 tiny steps .

I might revert the map back to Crimson Coast at some point, or rather make an alternate version. I feel like terraining again .

That's great but the actual terrain you made is pretty good and does not need any modifications.

 

[Cyclotrutan]

That's great but the actual terrain you made is pretty good and does not need any modifications.

I like the terrain, but I want to restore the connection to the old Crimson Coast. Making two versions parallel with different terrain is one option. Crimson Coast was more widespread than Darkening of Tirisfal. I've seen it mentioned on several sites, and the people there are unaware that a newer version exists under a different name.

 

[Alexen]

That's the main problem of changing the name of your project. You gotta spread some news regarding the fact that you changed the name but is the same project but modified.