SC2 units rank up ?

[Massive_attack]

i saw recently, in This:
http://www.starcraft2.com/screenshot.xml?27
That some units had "ranks" similiar to cnc-Generals,

What does this mean ? LEVELING UP HEROES ! Yup, if units can level up we can have wc3-style hero abilities w00tage !

This should end the "sc2hero" discussion, everything we need to make them is here, and when the game gets released we will have many avenues to explore (hero unit-wise)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

ugh... this is as much "leveling up" as red alert 2's units. from what it looks like, it seems like it's just reaching veteran rank. it'd be great for leveling up if you'd like to have a "hero" gaining one or two levels. i'll fucking kill them if they introduce, as you say, wc3 style heroes. if they make the amount of veteran status leveling up an adjustable thing, dota fans have more to beat off of. perhaps let in a trigger that allows you to make abilities every time you "level up". this does not end the heroes in sc2 discussion because, from what it looks like, it's no different from the stuff you see in cnc games. one or two rank ups, and nothing more. all in all, this doesn't really prove anything more than a possibility in custom maps.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

I really hope Blizzard blows us all away with an exact copy of the Wc3 hero system.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Hmm, I did not notice this gallery. Anyway I have impression that there are two types of tanks by Terrans , are one upgrade of other?
Btw, I expect something more by Blizzard than plastic fantastic toys. :/

 

[STARS-ZombE]

nothing is final, so the discussion isnt ended until it is announced for a beta version. as for ranking up, id rather they not if it gives bonuses cause then itd turn into a game of having your rank 2 unit getting the final blow on a unit to get it to rank 3 and such.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Things even often change from beta versions to the real game, Wc3 is an excellent example of that.

 

[Razorbrain]

and wow

if i heard correctly, you could play as Pandaren in the wow-beta

 

[Dr Super Good]

I hope they do introduce ranking, it will make people more fond of leting their units live and not suiciding (retreating from rushes instead of letting units die). I also hope they have hero systems in SC2 but not in melee since that would kind of ruin it.

 

[Massive_attack]

in most, as you say, CnC-type games veteran units usualy die almost as easily as normal ones anyway, im just saying WITH TRIGGERS this could GREATLY help role playing games for StarCraft 2. Fuck dota, if it does come to SC2 (and it will) i say let it, the dota douchebags can all play theyre little games while others like myself will be playing hero survivals, balanced AoS's Zombie games and so on, really its not like we dont have a choice in the map selection, if dota floods the server well i wont give a damn, just gives more empty space between the titles i DO care about.

All in all, this is a very very good thing in my opinion.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

in most, as you say, CnC-type games veteran units usualy die almost as easily as normal ones anyway, im just saying WITH TRIGGERS this could GREATLY help role playing games for StarCraft 2. Fuck dota, if it does come to SC2 (and it will) i say let it, the dota douchebags can all play theyre little games while others like myself will be playing hero survivals, balanced AoS's Zombie games and so on, really its not like we dont have a choice in the map selection, if dota floods the server well i wont give a damn, just gives more empty space between the titles i DO care about.

All in all, this is a very very good thing in my opinion.

Let's just pray they have a damn good filter, or a Google styled game search! I could see the top search now... "-dota"

But if the ranking is a variable, does that mean when you get to level 10, you get 10 of those bars?

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Dota will probably just become an independent game sometime instead of keeping on being just a map. Perhaps not a sponsored game, but a game none the less I think. I don't think they want to build up another hype from scratch by going to Sc2, but you never know.

Anyways, enough Dota talk, any further Dota discussion in this thread will get deleted.

 

[Magoo 111]

CnC veterancy for units would be kinda cool. I always thought that was a nice little touch.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Erwt said that Tiki (who was at blizzcon, seemingly) said that teh Blizz has confirmed there would be a hero system, though it won't be for the melee games.

 

[Massive_attack]

Proof, anyone ?

Edit: stupid post, soory, yeah aparently that is true...

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

SWEET. Finally Blizzard is doing things just to make modding the game better!

 

[KaboomMaster]

Personally id rather have Blizzards Plastic Action Figures than a replica hero system cause then Raynor and Thrall can stand side by side on my desk

 

[Massive_attack]

Um kaboom, there is already a thrall model, costs alot of $ though, at least thats what i hear.

Raynor.... we never really got to see much of his body, kinda hard to make a model of him, maybe a bust though

 

[PurplePoot]

Raynor.... we never really got to see much of his body, kinda hard to make a model of him, maybe a bust though

Have you seen the story mode trailer?

 

[Massive_attack]

oh, it is raynor. hmm.

 

[Zaeden]

Veteran Units =/= Hero Units, if that's what was originally being inferred.

 

[Massive_attack]

Uh dont really know what exactly you were responding to but yess thats essentialy what i said in my first post. sooo....

good eye ?

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

What does this mean ? LEVELING UP HEROES ! Yup, if units can level up we can have wc3-style hero abilities w00tage !

Way to self contradict.

 

[Massive_attack]

In a nutshell i was reffering to the possibility of having Wc3 hero systems

So basicly it had the same general rough idea that this does:

Veteran Units =/= Hero Units, if that's what was originally being inferred.

Essentialy i was trying to say that, unfortunately i was definately alot less clear, i was excited at the time, you know me.

 

[LordDz]

I hope blizzard implents the hero system as a bonus to us mapmakers, but hell to them if they add it to the normal game!

+ Wouldn't it be hell lot of unbalanced? Think this, 4 Zerglings = 1 Zealot. Zealot kills 3 Zerglings =Zealot gains lvl + dmg. Zealot pwns fourth Zergling... Zerglings? Well, they die so instantly fast that it wouldn't help them so much with lvling, ''yay ma zergling is at lvl ten'' BOOM Headshot! And it was shoot down by a Siege tank.

Skip that idéa, but add it to the Editor.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

1. It has already been said that the hero system would be implemented in the editor, though not anywhere else.
2. The hero system would only apply to heroes, not ordinary units.
3. The only way a siege tank could possibly take on zerglings is if they were standing still.

 

[Massive_attack]

MSBB to the rescue !

 

[LordDz]

1. It has already been said that the hero system would be implemented in the editor, though not anywhere else.
2. The hero system would only apply to heroes, not ordinary units.
3. The only way a siege tank could possibly take on zerglings is if they were standing still.

3. Forget of Siege tank then But how would it count? I mean, Protoss mothership pwns down a few Hydralisks.. It lvls up! Wooho! Would each unit produce a different amount of xp? (Like ultralisk = 200 xp, Zergling = 25 xp).

 

[Massive_attack]

shit like the mothership would require ALOT of kills to lvl up.

Besides just because it gained a lvl doesnt mean its unbeatable.

If blizzards smart they will decrease the ammount of XP gained from say, a zergling. But INCREASE the rate said ling gets ITS XP, therefore making them tougher targets, and making them worth saving after a fight.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

3. Forget of Siege tank then But how would it count? I mean, Protoss mothership pwns down a few Hydralisks.. It lvls up! Wooho! Would each unit produce a different amount of xp? (Like ultralisk = 200 xp, Zergling = 25 xp).

No, really? Was it that inconspicuous that weaker units would give and need less xp? Didn't they already have something like that in warcraft 3? You know, the game that set the precedent?

 

[Massive_attack]

Lol, glad MySpaceBarBroke and I have the same general feelings when it comes to SC2.

 

[Gilles]

I don't get it. So in the WE for SC2 there will be an option to make heros right? Well why are we talking aout Zerglings leveling, they wouldn't be a hero!?! I should just save myself the effort and stay out of this =P

 

[Massive_attack]

This thread is mostly about how the UNITS in StarCraft 2 MIGHT get better/recieve level ups through combat.

It wouldnt be like Wc3 heros though. They would likely not recieve abilities, gain vast ammounts of power, recive drastic role altering changes ect, they would just be better units over-all. Oh and they wont revive either.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

As in CnC games, veterancy is usually a two-tiered system of which, if a unit fights enough, they will receive minor stat boosts. This happens usually 2-3 times before it reaches its limit. We're discussing it because a screenshot shows the markings of veterancy on it.

 

[Massive_attack]

and, more than that, it has it hovering over units, as in the CnC series.

Untill we get official confirmation from blizz however we wont know if its gona make the final cut.

 

[Gilles]

Ahh sorry, I get it. I hope they don't, never played games with it, but it seems like it would make comebacks all that much harder.

 

[Massive_attack]

not really, having a unit "rank up" is usualy a rare thing.

Just means you need to start using tactics instead of constant zerg rushes at your target. Essentialy, do not "feed" the enemy with units.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

You would be more careful about letting your units die, most importantly.

 

[Massive_attack]

Yeah, thats something SC always needed, a reason to keep your men alive.

 

[PurplePoot]

Yeah, thats something SC always needed, a reason to keep your men alive.

There always is a reason to keep your units alive. It's called cost-effectiveness, and it wins games.

Just because you don't have to preserve your units doesn't mean it's a bad idea to, or that it can't be done.

 

[Massive_attack]

Purplepoot:

See: Zerg Rush,
Zealot Rush,
Zerg Spam,
SCV rush
And you will see that many more tactics basicly end up having you throw away your units.

Now, after a fight, retreat is a valid option
Rushers now can keep theyre men, thus allowing them to attack again but with stronger units.
Defenders now can pwn noob zergling rushes with a co-ordinated resistance.

Before, rushers couldnt be assed to keep theyre men. usualy since they were buisy making unit producers and queing troops.

 

[PurplePoot]

Of course you're still losing a lot of units (it's starcraft...), but you can lose a lot less than otherwise if you play smart, while still doing the same damage (or more) (aka micro!)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I straddle the fence when it comes to veterancy. On one hand, it offers an alternative to the "Screw the rules, I have money" scenario. On the other hand, starcraft was always a game meant for expendable units, and small squads were always a warcraft thing. BUT, veterancy isn't like heroes in that 1, any unit can get it so it doesn't centralize or concentrate an army, and 2, it's not that overpowering, and can be mass produced, therefore not really ruining the starcraft way of battle.

 

[PurplePoot]

We already have veterancy in the build sense, to a certain degree. Upgrades. (zergling attack/movement, marine shields, etc...)

That's good enough for me, really. I never liked games where units leveled up, in any way, shape, or form. (well, I mean RTSes)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Upgrades are in no way, shape, or form veterancy. A point of veterancy is to provide a little something that money can't. Upgrades are... well, quite opposing that. It's like an actual battlefield. There is the equipment, and there are the small things you can learn from experience make yourself a better soldier, like a better aim.

 

[PurplePoot]

What I was saying is that I'm content with that version of increasing a unit's effectiveness, and nothing more.

 

[Massive_attack]

But PP, thats exactly but veterancy does !

 

[PurplePoot]

No, it doesn't. Veterancy (as you described it) bonuses single units, either for the price you pay for them or for being in combat.

Upgrades bonus an entire type of unit (or more) permanently.

 

[Massive_attack]

Oh, i didnt realize you were talking about the entire unit type, my bad.
I still dont see why you so zealously dislike this idea.

 

[PurplePoot]

I don't like the idea of 2-3 marines easily owning a dragoon. (or stalker or whatever...) If I see a marine, I want to be fighting against a marine.

Also, I can see SC2 getting a lot more slow if veterancy had a significant effect, with people having standoffs, trying to pick off enemies without losing anyone. (or as little as possible)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Veterancy isn't that huge a deal. A small upgrade to provide more realism into gameplay. Why is it such a taboo?