Sand Storm Arena v4.2.3 AI - Shores of Remorse

[Moderator]

20:54, 3rd Aug 2015
Shadow Fury: A very nice and successful mixture of "Capture the Flag" and "Arena" gameplay styles. A lot of custom heroes with awesome skills ensure a great gameplay. Teamwork here is required to take over the 4 control points and destroy a flag. The presence of a smart AI is really marvellous because it makes this map playable both in single player and multiplayer with an enjoyable experience. A few items purchasable at the center of the map and in every player's base also contribute to a better gameplay experience yet more items = more combos. I hope to see more items in the future updates.
In this game, you can also hire units. This is surely a great feature and it can easily turn the tides of the battle to someone's favor.
Talking about the terrain, it looks fantastic and definitely suits the name "Sand Storm Arena". Vegetation is not missing to give a natural look to the map. Perhaps the seaweeds on the shallow water are a bit excessive don't you think so?

Overall this map offers a great entertainment and encourages a lot teamwork and cooperation between players. It is approved with a rating of 4/5

 

[Arad MNK]

The description seems fine, but the screenshots aren't showing for me

 

[Galyov]

I re-uploaded the screenshots using photo album. I hope they are visible for everyone.

 

[Ardenian]

I re-uploaded the screenshots using photo album. I hope they are visible for everyone.

They stretch the site a lot, please reduce their size and use hidden tags.

 

[Shadow Fury]

I have tested the map and I must admit it is full of misconceptions, unbalances and bugs. Just a few words on the visuals first.

You did a great job with the terrain, it definitely matches the name Sand Storm. Tile variation was manipulated efficiently and the doodads management was good but subject to improvements. A few block of stones around the arena do not give it a pleasant aspect, rather an empty one. Why not filling it with some decorative doodads? In addition, beside the trees you may consider adding some plants (shurbs, flowers, viny plants etc...) to give a more environmental look to the vegetation.

Ok time to talk about the critical issues. Apart from the lacking AI, there are a few awkward things. First of all, when I tested the hero before approving my choice, I used the ultimate which had a long cooldown but unfortunately the cooldown was not reset to 0 once I picked the hero. You should use this function:

• Unit - Reset ability cooldowns for (The Hero)

One other annoying bug was going to my own circle power and seeing that my hero was automatically ordered to move somewhere in the map. Why that? I simply wanted to go to the shop just beside one of the circle of powers and the hero just walked away. I think this has to do with some orders to the AI. Are you sure you used this condition?

• ((Owner of (Triggering unit)) controller) Equal to Computer

So if a human player moves there the actions are not triggered.

Enough with bugs, time to speak about gameplay. Generally, it is enjoyable. Heroes have a set of cool skills with pleasant effects and sounds however there's a little misconception. Why do all heroes start at level 10? What makes a game with heroes progressive is the levelling up. If you just start with all skills learnt, your game doesn't develop any further. I'd strongly recommend letting all heroes start at level 1 as in any normal map with heroes.
If there's one thing that really ruined the map then it's the items. Come on, all items are plain consumables and some spell books? Why aren't there items to boost damage, armor, attack speed and these stuff? I see that there are learnable stats from the Hero Abilities but that limits the variation. Once again, what makes a map like yours progressive is buying stronger items as the game evolves, not being stuck with the same upgradeable stats from the very beginning. I highly recommend adding items that boost stats and, if you want, that add some passive/active skills.
Why are the towers so weak? I can just sneak past them without even feeling that they're attacking. I mean, they're just useless. Increase their attack damage so that they really stand as true defenders of the flag rather than weaklings.
The final negative part of your map is the capability of hiring units. The Naga Royal Guards are just too overpowered and far too cheap for their immense power. A damn stun of 3 seconds is fatal, imagine if one player gets 3 naga royal guards... it's 9 seconds of stun and that's blatanly unacceptable. In this way, players will focus more on getting as many of this unit as possible instead of using their heroes. When I played the game and hired a few of them, nobody could even touch me. My suggestions is not removing this unit but simply increasing their cost to something in between 1000-1500 and decreasing the stun to 1 second so even if a player is lucky enough to get even 3 of them, the stun will be 3 seconds, an acceptable value. Also consider increasing the cost of other units.

All in all, the map has a strong potential but it crucially needs to be polished and have its bugs fixed. For now, it stays as needs fix with a rating of 3/5.

 

[Galyov]

I fixed the bugs you mentioned and added environment doodads. Also increased gold costs of units and some items, set the food limit to 50, added items for boosting stats/additional skills(located in the pyramid in the middle of the arena), including droppable gems that give extra stats when attached to certain items. I increased the damage of the towers a little - their purpose is not to destroy passing units from the begining, but just weaken/slow them unless their damage is upgraded. The AI is also improved. For now i am going to leave the heroes start at level 10.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Great! I see the bugs have been fixed and I noticed that the AI is much harder to kill. The terrain was also improved. Now the map is approvable, good job! It doesn't really matter if all heroes start at level 10 because the gameplay is still enjoyable. That was just a simple recommendation from me after all; you can keep it as such.

 

[deepstrasz]

-some minor bugs with who killed who text
-an AI had 23 kills in the score panel even though it didn't do so many unless neutral creeps counted
-Gem of the Sun can be sold and for a good price. The others cannot

Other than those, the concept is nice though can be a pain to play with many players when a flag has to be taken to all those 4 points and for each point one has to wait 10 or more seconds.

 

[stan0033]

"Take and Hold" is "domination". This means controlling one or several objects or regions and defending them from being taken by the enemy.

 

[Ballonskipper]

Yo yo
I tried this map out alone in a ffa with the AI and in a two team setting with a couple of friends. The map is very well made with tons of different things to interact with which gives a lot of possibilities in the long run but can seem a bit overwhelming at first. I am glad i played against the AI first to kind of try the map and copy some of the things they did.

The map is a capture the flag style hero arena were you have to capture the flag of each enemy three times by collecting it in their base and then bring the flag to four circles of power in the middle. Having to bring the flag to capture points gives the enemy some time to react instead of some ninja character just running into the base of the enemy and stealing their flags repeatedly. In addition to the hero arena element you have the possibility of training units and workers to gather gold and build static defenses.

The map has a lot of cool ideas implemented like the shadow "bosses" you can kill to change a spell and the unit building, but for me it is a bit too much because you don't really know what you should be doing. I found focussing on one thing like either your hero or building units makes it more manageable

Going a little more into the details:


1. Heroes 3/5 - The heroes are interesting enough but with the ability to change spells the main focus is not on each hero but more on building one you like. The balance needs to be a little better as in the game with people we had a leaver and it ended up being 2v1 with me almost being able to kill both my opponents with my hero (the one with two stun abilities and a heal) despite the fact I was focussing on units. I am also not a big fan of not being able to see how close you are to rank up, the system is nice with you being able to specialize your character as you want but not knowing when you will level feels little wierd. Especially the first time playing as it actually takes a while to get a level which made me very confused about whether I would level up by killing things or there were some objective you had to do to level

2. Items 3.5/5 - Most of the items are pretty basic but i really like the gem system to upgrade them and the fact that most items have a usefull active. It is a little sad that the last level of items upgraded in the legendary shop lose their active to gain another gem slot and extra stats. For the two legendary items i kind of dislike that they are dropped on death. The cost of them is really high and in a map like this you will get focussed if you have one which means you are investing 5000 gold to put the item into rotation. Both legendary items are really cool with their special effect tho but when the stacks on the sword is lost on death the mage one feels a little better because every extra stat point gives you a permanent power-up. In general i don't mind items that are dropped on death but it feels bad if you spend a lot of money on them. Also i don't really understand the chance to hit stat, it seems pretty useless as there is not a lot of evasion and it is always a very low percentage.

3. Gameplay 3/5 - The gameplay is pretty straight forward, the map feels a little slow for this type of map with a long time to kill and with the capture system taking so long it is a little to easy to defend which makes the map go very long. I like the capture system but it could be a bit faster in my taste. I think the map would benefit from being a bit more focussed on one thing but from the description I see you wanted to make a map with all the features you like and i respect that, that is exactly what mapmaking is about.

In general the map is very well made and we found no bugs. It also has good AI which is a huge plus when people don't really join less known maps and it made it very chill to play around with in single player. For me it could be a bit faster with higher damage early on, faster leveling and a little shorter time on the capture points since you need 4 and the enemies can deny them but all of that is preference.

Try out the map if you like Hero Arenas or if you need something to chill with in singleplayer

3.5/5

 

[Galyov]

Thank you for your time to share your insights on my map!
The things you pointed out generally summarize my observations of players' behaviour on Battle.net and I am really grateful I finally saw them in a written form.

The map is very well made with tons of different things to interact with which gives a lot of possibilities in the long run but can seem a bit overwhelming at first.

Indeed, there is a lot happening in the map, hence some steeper learning curve is inevitable. I put many info messages, plus a detailed description in the Quests log, but unfortunatelly most people don't read.

The heroes are interesting enough but with the ability to change spells the main focus is not on each hero but more on building one you like.

This is a new feature in v3 and helps making each game more upredictable.

it ended up being 2v1 with me almost being able to kill both my opponents with my hero

As I see you played the 1 of the 2 toughest heroes to kill with brute force. Each hero has a unique gameplay and has its strengths and weaknesses, in addition one needs to adapt to the actions of the enemy. The fighting in this arena gives a lot of opportunities to show off creativity, but it also requires some knowledge and thinking.

I am also not a big fan of not being able to see how close you are to rank up

You level up when you kill a hero 5 times. Each bonus skill gives some upper hand against your enemies, so it depends on each player whether the opponent will get stronger or not. The leveling is also mentioned in the descriptions.

It is a little sad that the last level of items upgraded in the legendary shop lose their active

Buying the top tier items is a tradeoff, not a straight bonus. You decide how you want to play. After an hour of playing, heroes can get very strong and the battles could potentially be decided quickly, so you may prefer to be stronger, than losing time casting a minor item ability.

For the two legendary items i kind of dislike that they are dropped on death.

These items break the balance, with great power comes great responsibillity. Nobody makes you buying them, but they can change the game.

Also i don't really understand the chance to hit stat

This counters the chance to avoid damage and is a crucial stat. Wether you need it or not depends on your opponents, but as you build agility, strength and put chance to avoid damage on your items, you could avoid nearly each second attack or spell.

the map feels a little slow for this type of map. I think the map would benefit from being a bit more focussed on one thing

The map is a hybrid and a moderate amount of creativity is put into the gameplay. It is more of a tactical game, than a 'go kill these guys' game. It was more focused in previous versions, because of the lesser amount of features, but my intentions were to make the map unpredictable and different each time you play, hence the larger variety of play styles.


Overall this map is not simple by any means. How interesting would it be depends mostly on the players' thinking, control and knowledge about the game. There is not 1 strategy beats all and everything changes dynamically as the game goes. I as the creator have been stunned seeing someone beats me in a way I never thought about. I have also been beaten quite a few times by some good Warcraft players, who haven't ever played this map.

 

[stan0033]

looks well made

 

[Kam]

General:

• The in-game documentation via Quests is extensive and well explained.
• The AI is interesting to play against.
• Terrain is well suited for an arena, with clear delineated areas for bases, upgrades, and combat.
• The gem + item system creates a lot of replay value.
• There's a lot of engaging content here. The next step is to polish all of it, which is a great place to be.

Recommendations:

• While I appreciate the them behind the four circles, it may be too much. Have you considered using a single point with stages?
• Alternatively I might consider making it only one flag if you keep the four circles. My concern is that the game loop can be quite long based on player proficiency.
• Adding another layer of detail around stones, obelisks, and other objects to bring more life to the environment would go a long way. I'm happy to help clarify this with examples if you want me to.
• The flags being in the shop area of the base is a bit awkward. I think a smaller island in between the base and the center arena just for the flags and towers would make for better gameplay. Right now I don't get there sense there is any "safe" area. As the attacking hero, running through their base feels awkward.
• You could remove the Main Quests and Optional Quests text, and rename the tab to Info.
• The enemy hero I was playing against was magic immune in the beginning, and I wasn't clear why as it was not an issue later.
• I may have missed it, but I didn't know I could only buy one ability from the Obelisk of Storms, so I wasted 1600 gold.

Bug

• There is a message "Default string" when my hero enters the arena. I chose Shaman.

Rating

• 4 / 5
• I will reserve rating the resource. I'm hopeful with some iteration this can be a 5 / 5. =)