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Roundtable Flame/Discussion about Beliefs

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mr subs, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    Nope, what I mean to say is that we are not alone and I've seen enough to conclude it.

    Meaning - either aliens, or completely made up, no third option. Unfortunately science isn't very open minded, thus, anything not in the school toilet papers (oh I mean textbooks), is considered laughable. I do think so too - the stuff on the internet is laughable cause no real thing would be uploaded), but not all is laughable from what exists.

    I am confused, to me the only possibility for any religion texts to be true are if they are describing highly advanced beings which in the eyes of our primitive ancestors were godly things. OR of course, all of it is Bunk.

    DO not misunderstand me. I do not agree with religion in its current state presented by some institution to control (yes I know it was initially to learn people to be good but now - DESTROY the VATICAN - The center of ALL evil!). I think religion must be erradicated globally but the only possibility if any of it is true is if we are dealing with those extraterrestrial beings.

    No demons, no angels, either flying machines like the example I gave how Indians call the trains 'iron horses' OR as you said - all is a lie.
     
  2. gorillabull

    gorillabull

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    RELIGION HAS BROUGHT NOTHING BUT WAR, FALSE HOPE AND DIVISION OF PEOPLE
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Joe-black-5

    Joe-black-5

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    Because North Korea is so religious, no one can stand it.
     
  4. The Wizard

    The Wizard

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    hey guys religion was only to explain unexplainable.
    that primitive ancestors couldn't know anything about f.e. lightning - they thought it's god of thunder in rage etc.
    the problem is that there'll always be something unexplainable.
    but humans now know very much - we know how we appeared(religious version doesn't even seem serious), we know something about the universe. i know one day religion will loose its importance for humans
     
  5. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    The Church is a socialist society of aristocrats controlling the masses by counting on the weak to continue wishing for something good to happen to them, or some dream of a place in the afterlife where when they die their lives won't be so shitty. All the while the church grows stronger and stronger.

    This is how religion works.

    @Fladdermasken, well put, I feel the same, way. All aside from the part of me loathing Christianity and everything it stands for.
     
  6. Mr. Bob

    Mr. Bob

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    Catholic Church*

    Blame Nero.
     
  7. Ender

    Ender

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    define something, also define very much, you're definition seems a little../ small , because < 1% is not very much infact saying that is < 1% may make you have the impressions that we know something close to 1%, we don't, anything other then infinity devided by infinity is limit 0(ie not zero but practically 0)
    we do? no we don't we think that we are almost certain, but we don't know

    which one are you talking about? hindu,buddist,christen, muslim, juddist...

    the truth is nothing can prove that a god doesn't exist(you cannot prove that something doesn't exist) so any expression about the existence of god is merely an opinion, a belief and in most cases a religion(atheism)

    morality cannot exist without religion, after all if once you are dead, you are dead why bother being good(how is good defined?) do what you want, you are going to die no matter what you do and there is no benefit from being "good".
     
  8. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    There's a difference between "unexplainable" and ignorance... Mostly when the ignorance is intentional...

    //\\==//\\
     
  9. gorillabull

    gorillabull

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    the bible was written by a bunch of goat herding farmers who lived in an age where science did not exist. the bible being the source of all the beliefs in god and jesus and all i think that we should not be arguing about whether god exists or not but about how for so many years a belief which is completely irrational and idiotic managed to control so many people and sadly still does today.
     
  10. Ramza

    Ramza

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    Albert Einstein has got something to say about that: "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

    It's true. And this next bit even more so (from another forum): ''The morality of atheists is in a sense more noble than the morality of theists. While theists believe that gods will punish them for immoral acts and reward them for moral acts, atheists have no motivation to be moral other than their own sense of morality. It is morality for its own sake, not out of fear for punishment or desire for reward.''

    Also, by your logic all atheists would be murdering psychopaths.
    We aren't.
     
  11. Ender

    Ender

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    thank you for giving me a supporting example of why Morality cannot exist without religion.
    the Mode1 Human will always take the easy rout unless there are consequences that out way the gain.

    "own sense of morality" exactly my point i couldn't say it clearer, atheists have no reason to be moral other then their own sense of morality, which is.. what exactly?
    they are more prone to do drugs(need reference)
    they are more prone to commit suicideA
    the list goes on and on.

    oh yeah, they also support infanticide.

    what is your moral code? can you explain it? most atheists4 when asked this question will flounder and blabber and be unable to come up with an definite answer

    Wrong, You don't need a Moral code to not murder someone, all you need is a society2 telling you that if you do you will be punished3

    also did you know that Atheists are less happyie their higher suicide rates then people who believe in a god? and they flounder about searching for a purpose in life.

    1 the mode is the most common data in a data set, people mistakenly use average to refer to the most common person, this is inaccurate as average just means the sum of all divided by how many people there are.
    2 Morality doesn't even come into your point, any society can create laws to protect weak people's "rights"(what are the rights anyways? how are rights defined? why do humans have these rights?) from strong people.
    3 this doesn't prevent some people, but these few feel that the gain out weighs the possible consequence and they think that they won't get caught, this holds true for all criminals especially psychopaths.
    4 this is probably a mistake on my part to say most, but since all atheists i have asked to explain their moral code don't come up with anything definite I am making this assumption(note this is on the spot, so they don't have time to think about it, I guess this is unfair, however, any person who is religious5 doesn't have a problem telling you what their moral code is
    5 religious does not mean they say the are christen, muslim, whatever.. it means they are christen, muslim, whatever..
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  12. Ramza

    Ramza

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    I did no such thing.

    I think atheists are more moral than theists, because theists’ beliefs are stagnant. Atheists are more willing to adapt their morality to a changing world where new ideas are always evolving. For some reason you seem to be thinking morals can only come from religion. But what about society, culture, and family? Or better yet; logic and reason. Being part of some outdated cult is not a requirement for having morals.

    Theists (Christians) believe committing suicide is a sin. Committing a sin means you're going to hell.
    Atheists don't believe in hell. Mystery solved.

    That would be a generalization.

    Because atheist morals aren't set in stone like they are for theists. Like I said earlier, we are more willing to adapt our morality to a changing world. It's hard to come up with a bunch of rules on the spot.

    Really? Are you really that delusional? Do you really think that, without a society/laws, atheists would suddenly start murdering people? That the ONLY reason atheists don't, is because they would be going to prison? You must be trollin' me. :I

    Fun fact: In America, about 80% of the population is Christian and 8-16% is atheist. Yet the population of atheists in prisons is 0.21%. Wonder what you'll have to say about that.

    I didn't know that. Probably because it isn't true.

    Some atheists might (I know I'm not), but so are theists (one of the reasons religions exist is because people were searching for a purpose in life).
     
  13. Ender

    Ender

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    first you said that atheists moral actions comes from their sense of morality(which i didn't think they had) then you said that their morality adapts to the time and changes, ie its flexible.(you are going to say no its not!, but if something changes to fit the circumstances then it is flexible)
    flexible morality yeah like that is really morality, so if by doing something that would break your code of morality will let you live you will do it, because your morality isn't set in stone(well i guess it wouldn't violate your code of morality then because your morality is now.

    thank you for arguing for me, with the oppositions debate like yours who needs to type anything?



    interesting Happy people are more prone to suicide, I guess a lot of psychology text books need to be rewritten, because they disagree with your expertise.
    again, Atheist's are more likely to commit suicide then religious people. From my limited knowledge, depressed people suicide(note depression is an antonym of happiness)

    what is your purpose then? It will fall into these two categories, A) taking care care of yourself, B) helping the downtrodden (with some definition of down trodden)
    Religious people have one Purpose, one that if they truly believe in they are willing to die a hundred deaths for. how does your purpose compare to that?


    wrong this is statistically based most atheist support abortion right? ergo Infanticide,

    you cannot say life begins at 3 months, at 4 months at 9 months, once you do that what's to stop it from being moved to 1 year? 20? 30? NOTHING so again if you say that life doesn't begin at conception then you can, using the same thought process say it doesn't begin till you are twenty a human is a human even if it is only a fetal stage.
     
  14. Ramza

    Ramza

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    I like how you cherry picked only four lines out of my whole post. But anyway...

    Well, you thought wrong.

    I'm not going to say it's not. Atheist morality is ''flexible'', yeah. But not in the way you're thinking (as in, changing over day).

    Don't even know what you're trying to say here. Give me an example.

    Explained this already in my last post. But it seems like you decided to ignore that part, along with pretty much all the rest of my post.

    As an atheist, you are free to choose your own meaning in life, without authority, gods, or holy scriptures to tell you why you are here. It's your job to figure it out for yourself. You know this is the only life you are going to get, and that you must make the most of it and enjoy it as much as you can while it lasts. To live life to the fullest, and exult in how fortunate you are to have even lived can go beyond any petty religious experience any theist can claim.

    You don't live your life for an eternal reward or fear of eternal punishment, you live life because you want to. To share your life with people you love, and be kind to others because you want to - and no other reason - is far more noble than any reason a theist can claim.

    But I bet you're just going to ignore this answer as well. It's what theists do best, right? Ignoring and avoiding. :I

    Most, maybe. But not all. Your last post was still a generalization.

    It's not about when life starts, it's about when life becomes sentient. I'm no expert on this, but I believe it's at 3 months or so.
     
  15. trolman

    trolman

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    The only reason atheists have morality is because of the sosicety we live in today is heavily based on the bible and its sequals.My point is if you were your morality comes from your parents and your surroundings,you dont figure it out yourself.Ofcourse you are not going to start randomly killing ppl because even if you dont belive,you've been told that doing others harm is bad.Now you might say "well thats natural" but the natural reaction is the eye-for-eye and there are sadly people who still think in that way. And this is where your flexible morality comes in, if society loosens,so will you. Right now most of you "people" dont know that murder is legal... psst and its called abortion,like no one ever asks the baby if it wants to live...
     
  16. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    Law enforces morality, religion can cease to exist while morality is maintained, because morality to a certain point has nothing to do with religion. If you conduct yourself poorly in your actions, people will dislike you, and something bad will likely happen to you, albeit prison, death, etc. When religion is gone, morales will change, but for the most part remain the same.

    This is a common argument that religious people make.

    As Ramza stated, Atheist morality is flexible, though I am not 100% Atheist, and open to the teachings of any non-Christian religion. In this context flexible means, not to continue doing the same thing even if it cosmically immoral (wrong on a level beyond religion), even if the church or another organization says we should continue.
     
  17. trolman

    trolman

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    The same law that makes "liberational" wars just for the sake of oil?No thanks.And law has nothing to do with the relegious sayings like "thou shall not kill" or anything,nope -.-

    relegion wont be gone but if it does there would be nothing holding together everyone's moral view,like you cant convince that man on the street why he cant take your money

    And yeah it seems like you have no idea what christianity really is,read any of the gospels and get a clue why it is a good thing if everyone did what Christ said.
     
  18. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    Your book speaks of its own laws, like you state "Thou shalt not kill" being one of them, but what you forget, that it is your leaders, who sent thousands to die, and thousands to slaughter during the Crusades. That is not to forget the Salem Witch Trials, which as we know today, there is no such thing as Witchcraft, but all things are warranted if it is God's will? This is what you will say.

    I would gladly renounce any allegiance, to a cause, if it meant we were to spill the blood of our brothers, regardless of their ethnicity or beliefs.



    I wish everyone could come to understand peace, peacefully... This should be enlightening to you all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq7qZrXYtvk
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  19. Ramza

    Ramza

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    I debunked that silly theory some posts ago.
     
  20. trolman

    trolman

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    xD you have no clue about any of those events do you?

    It was the church that crucified Christ!The pope in his behavior he was a bigger atheist then dawkins and hitchkens combined in the sence of the rape he did.Plus the motivation for the crusades was greed and power,not messages from the bible.Same thing about the witch burnings, got someone you dont like? Frame him for heresy and watch them die! Jesus says it in Mark 34:75 !

    "I would gladly renounce any allegiance, to a cause, if it meant we were to spill the blood of our brothers, regardless of their ethnicity or beliefs." A thing we agree on. But in a way the messages of love passed trough the new testemony is the foundation of our current peace. The events you said were ironic examples of how personal hate or lust and greed could come from the people who are supposed to be the exact opposite.That is how terrible we people really are.