• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Roguelike 2.6

Roguelike!
Created by DeathdruidX

Map Info

Roguelike is a dungeon crawling RPG. Most of the game is randomized, leading to different items, different enemy locations, trap placement, etc, every time you play. Despite the random factor, it's very possible to salvage a run that's less than ideal by playing smart and being safe.
You don't need a big party to play it, either. It's very possible to complete, even to the extra final boss, with only two people. The main game can be completed with almost every hero when they're alone, provided the player is willing to be patient. That said, I recommend having a group. The game's far more fun with a bunch of people, even if adding too many can make it harder.

Features


  • 24 Heroes, all with unique kits. Very few spells are reused and no heroes play anything like any others. Even your meatshields and carries have variety.
  • Even within these heroes, players can customize their playstyles based on their team. The Knight can become an impenetrable tank or a durable fighter. The Psychic could be specialized as a heavily defensive support or a fully capable frontline fighter.
  • Eight massive areas each with their own sets of enemies, traps, events and bosses. With a different boss and different enemy placement every time, each corner will be a possible deathtrap to even the most experienced of players.
  • Extra bosses lie in wait at the end of each area. Players can challenge these bosses for incredible rewards and levels, but each boss is a force entirely on their own and fully capable of wiping a party. However, should they all be defeated, the game will have an additional set of levels including an extra boss whose difficulty far exceeds the rest of the game.
  • More than 100 items in the pool of random tools that the players will find. Powerful active items completely turn the tide of battle and passive items mold wimpy explorers into brave dungeon delvers.
  • Lore! Lots of lore! Every hero has a backstory, as does every boss, area, item, etc. Should the players complete the game in its entirety, every hero has their own ending!
  • Brutal difficulty that challenges every player, even those that know the tricks behind every boss and area. Few ever see the end of the labyrinth...
  • NEW! (Version 2.21) Has a soundpack, giving great music while you get eaten alive!
  • New! (Version 2.35) The player endings have been re-added. For those that played the old versions, some of you missed it and their removal was to make room for something else that...didn't work out. Long and short is that they're back.
Some other things to know...


When I say the difficulty is brutal, I mean it. At least, it should be. Some runs will bless your Rogue with cleave, durability, invulnerability and crits. Others will have him praying that he could even get a Small Rock as a weapon. Such is the nature of a game with an entirely random generation of items and bosses. If something goes wrong, don't be upset. Strengthen your resolve and give it another go. Or come back here and tell me I'm a bad mapmaker, as this is also true.

Also there is now a Discord! - https://discord.gg/UjSEcgyFbA


Screenshots and Videos


Big thanks to Vidya Only for playing and recording the game. Note that some information you get in the video may be slightly outdated.


Unfortunately, all of these come from the same game. I'll add more at some point, probably when this version gets updated.
Image Description:
A screenshot of the Depths, the first area. In this image, you can see several of the early enemies and Beelzebub, the first boss.

CMVmm2P.png

Image Description:
A screenshot of the Overgrowth, the second area. This is the Sinner and Priestess battling the extra boss of this area. This also gives a snippet of the lore from the game, showing the Sword of the Dawn.

fBxl8LU.png

Image Description:
A screenshot of the Piercing Cold, the fifth area. As the party first landed in the area, they were unfortunately met with great resistance from the residents. They pressed on, but met with untimely demise from a boss near the game's end. Such a shame.

n79IoM1.png




Changelog
Fixed a few minor bugs from related to map protection.


Changelog
Updated Hotkeys
Assassin's Assassinate logic changed, but functionally still roughly the same. Cloak of Shadows reworked.
Psychic's Psionic Storm now deals more damage.
Death Knight's healing up, Death Coil CD up early, Life Drain CD down. Runeblade and Dark Armor functionality changed.
Magus Thor's Hammer functionally change, Heatblast CD down
Spellblade Dimension Blade updated, Runic Blade name changed to Essence Reaper. Bug fixed with mana regain.
Priestess' Inspire now gives slightly more armor and actually lasts the appropriate duration.
Shinobi reworked, though still very similar to how he was the previous patch.
Sinner Gluttony actually works the way it's supposed to now.
Guardian's slam damage and cooldown up.


Changelog
Fixed the game crashing via Fire Mages/Aguni.
Shinobi has been completely reworked.
Hotkeys changed for abilities to a more suitable set.


Changelog
Probably the last version unless anything critical comes up.
Hero unique endings and the code to reveal the secret hero have returned.

Changelog
Heroes
Guardian - Less tanky, but a bit more damage to compensate.
Overlord - Damage down, durability down. Should be more reasonable.
Magus - Cooldowns on Fire/Ice spells down. Cooldown on Thor's Hand up. Cast time on innate up.
Spellblade - Damage on Dimensional Blade fixed. For real this time.
Alchemist - Fixed several bugs related to his passive/special.
Sinner - Reworked/Fixed Gluttony (the spell, not the sin).
Items
Mini Hakkero - Tooltip no longer says it has hero restrictions. It hasn't for a long time, but I kept forgetting to update it. Whoops.



Changelog
Spellblade
Dimensional Blade damage output significantly lowered.
Ritualist
Armor shredding abilities lowered, damage aura improved.
Sinner
Completely remade. Make sure to check him out (In a group).
Items
Super Greed's item has been nerfed.
3 new items added.
Other
Randoming a hero will now give a second tarot card.
Mycaruba now patrols the fire area once again.


Heroes
Small buffs - Dragon Lord, Shinobi, Psychic
Small nerfs - Guardian, Overlord
Huntress has been remade. She is now an agility carry that specializes rapidly clearing groups of enemies.
Sinner is now an Intelligence hero. This is a very temporary change and he is due for a remake next patch.
Others
The Cathedral has been completely remade into a more boss rush. This prevents players from waiting for every cooldown before fighting. The extra space of the Cathedral will be used for other things in coming versions.
Character endings have been removed for now.


Changelog
Heroes
These heroes have been partially reworked (mostly same abilities, some QoL changes) - Archer, Dragon Lord, Ghoul, Overlord, Psychic, Spellblade
These heroes have been mostly reworked (Thematically the same but mostly different in terms of kit) - Shinobi, Slayer
These heroes due for full reworks - Sinner, Huntress
(Check out the comments for more details and insight on these reworks)
Alchemist - Base attack speed nerf. Hitting that lategame, not that alchemist picking wretches will care.
Guardian - Taunt/slam cooldown increased, Protector heals for slightly less. The Guardian is overperforming a tad, but not too much.
Magus - Int gain down, damage down. Magus is op, but I'd rather not gut him. Just going to touch him down some for now and see where that takes it.
Enemies
Slight number changes to enemies found in the Darkness. Large enemy patch is on the way, but for now, staying as is.
No boss changes. Much like enemies, significant changes are on the way...but not yet.
Bugfixes
Cleaned some code, removed some memory leaks.
Fixed a bug where randoming the Magus would not give his spellbook.


General
Ultra Greed mode added
Fixed some pathing issues
Heroes
Magus - Full Rework
The Magus was in a strange place balance-wise, being both horribly over powered and hilariously weak. His rework is going to leave him in a better place to play as and with.
Ghoul - Buffs Buffed
The Ghoul's buffs often felt stiff, especially endgame. They are now far more usable and user friendly.
Sinner - Lust Reworked
Again. Lust has been remade as a damage dealing debuff.
Various heroes have had abilities remade into one point abilities that cost more than 1 lumber to learn. This is because levels in those abilities offered very little, now they can be one-point wonders as everyone needs them.
Items
Cleave ranges down
Fixed several item tooltips


Changelog
General
Updated a bunch of icons
Observers no longer can spawn heroes
Fixed multiple issues with the randoming system
Plugged some more leaks
Soundpack is finished! Look below for more details.

Heroes
Alchemist - Has a better money dump
The Alchemist can now spend money to permanently increase his attack damage.
Berserker - Furor lowers more armor
As it says.

Enemies
Seymour's summons no longer drop items.
Sloth has lower attack range and slows less movement speed.
Tiki's summon has been adjusted in the Cathedral.

Items
Demon Saint's Scroll is now accurate to the tooltip.
Belch Bomb replaced by a new item.

Other
Lunatic difficulty has had some adjustments, mostly around stunlocks.
Observers can now be spawned by any player.
Shopkeep shouldn't get stuck in the trees anymore.


Fixed a major bug with the Ancient.


Changelog
New Features
Multiple difficulties!
Safe area before the game starts, allowing players to spend their points in safety
Players can now random
Wall bosses have been fixed. Wall items also have been fixed. The Unstuck feature will stay in the game until next version just in case it messes up.


General
The event from the Darkness has been removed. It can be linked to numerous crashes, which really sucks for people who make it that far only to dc.
Numerous instances of spaghetti code fixed.

Heroes
Alchemist - Golden Sword reworked
Golden Sword is now Golden Gun. It can be used to exchange gold for attack damage in the very late game. This feels a bit better for an Alchemist than merely emptying those pockets.
Archer - Swift replaced
Swift was an amazing passive in the alpha of the game and the Archer has always been good enough it didn't need replaced. This has changed a bit, so she retains the ability of Swift but now has True Shot.
Assassin - Overall nerfed, Assassinate buffed
This is getting to be a common sight. The Assassin's boss killer is now weaker, but Assassinate is now reliable. Shadow Strikes is also now a one-point wonder.
Berserker - Berserker Fury Remade
Berserker Fury now scales better into lategame but now triggers when damaged rather than when attacking. This reinforces his position as a bruiser rather than a carry whose early game is tanky.
Death Knight - Dark Armor Remade
Dark Armor didn't serve much of a purpose. It now reflects a portion of the damage taken for a small amount of health cost each second.
Guardian - Aura Changed
Aura is now costless but has a longer cooldown. Excellent for when you've had a bit too much pizza to be using it.
Priestess - Mend and Inspire Buffed
Only slightly. The Priestess has always been good, but this will give her some more build paths.
Pugilist - Turtle Spirit Buffed
Fist of the Turtle Spirit is now fused with Meditation. This gives it a bit more idenity and utility.
Ritualist - Fantasy Seal and Spirit Mausoleum weaker early, stronger late
These two abilities really fall off when bosses have hundreds of armor. This change makes both much stronger in the endgame but lowers their early power as a result.
Shaman - Stun times slightly down
Exactly what it says.
Shinobi - High Evasion Cost Change
High Evasion now has a different cost formula. It's too powerful to cost so little.
Slayer - Anihilate and Silver Watch lategame buffed
Both abilities now have *some* effect on heroes, making the Slayer a reasonable choice as a carry rather than a gimmick for waveclear.
Spellblade - Mana Burst nerfed
This ability was way, way too strong. That's about it.
Warlock - Death Coil Buffed
Death Coil now restores its cost when used on a minion, allowing it to be used for free heals on summons.

Enemies
Leoric and Ostarion no longer have Fire Bolt.
Arthas has had his power lowered.
Gluttony doesn't grow to near as extreme of a size.

Fixes
Fixed a few tooltips.


Changelog
General
Defeating extra bosses is now a touch more cinematic.

Enemies
The Puppet Master has been remade. Happy hunting...
Locust Swarm abilities no longer cost mana, preventing abuse of early bosses that rely on it. However, the damage has also been slightly lowered to compensate.

Heroes
Archer - Damage increased
The Archer's physical damage has been slightly increased. Her recent remake has left her weaker than most carries, so this will start to bring her back in line.
Death Knight - At higher levels, Death Coil's cooldown is shorter
Early on, Death Coil provides literal infinite sustain for the Death Knight. Later on his health will be much higher, so it's fine for Death Coil's cooldown to be shorter.
Dragon Lord - Overall Buffed
The Dragon Lord was relatively weak for a tank, especially lategame. His numbers have been moved up some. That's all.
Overlord - Reworked Brave Swings
Brave Swings, much like the Shaman's Ethereal Spirit, now has only one level.
Warlock - Changed Hotkeys, lowered Death Coil's cost
As one person said, while the Warlock's hotkeys are what everyone else's is, the QWE keys work better with control groups. Simple QoL change. Death Coil has also had its mana lowered.

Fixes
Potential abuse of forcing traps to spawn in the Mage's Tower has been fixed.
The Sin spawning system has been changed in the hopes of it being less buggy.
Changed the wording of several tooltips for the sake of clarity.
Parasoul's armor bonus reworked.
Removed Cross Slash from the Warlock's upgrades. I don't know how the hell that ended up there.
Teal Player's wisp couldn't select heroes in one of the taverns. This has been fixed.
The Final Boss' warnings now properly disappear.
The game now properly recognizes when players leave.
Observer abuse will be harder to do.
Agni's Flames can no longer burn himself.
Many other very minor fixes.


Changelog

Balance Changes
General
Speedball has been remade.
Several paths opened in the Inferno and the Piercing Cold.
The Reaper event has been changed.

Enemies
The final boss has received some changes...

Heroes
Assassin - Reduced the base attack speed of the Assassin, changed Death Perception
The Assassin is extremely good at her job of killing heroes. Too good. She's getting touched down in the hopes that she'll be less overpowered at the endgame.
Archer - Replaced Critical Strike with Volley, lowered Aimed Shot cast time
The Archer was previously just a ranged Rogue. That was fine when she was created. There were only 6 heroes, after all. But now, she needs something to make her feel different. This comes in the form of Volley, her new spell.
Overlord - Damage down
The Overlord's damage has been slightly lowered. This will hopefully bring him more in line with other heroes.
Spellblade - New ability, Dimensional Blade CD down
The Spellblade needs some love, plain and simple. Emergency Mana has been removed, seeing as how it was mostly useless.

Others
Loggers now grant experience.
A few model updates/changes.
Invisible units now bestow auras. This only really effects the Assassin and Shinobi.
Pay attention during the endings...you might learn something interesting!
New Loading Screen and Minimap Preview!


Changelog

Balance Changes
Enemies
Gave The Reaper truestrike
Rebalanced the Cathedral. Certain rooms will be easier.
Increased Mad Jack's base stats but removed one of his ressurections.
Lowered the power of Arthas' illusions.
Increased the intensity of Death's Death Knell but increased the downtime.
Heroes
Knight - Reduced power of Iron Wall, Bold Leader and Reinforced Armor
The Knight was outperforming every tank in almost every regard. Seeing as how melee bosses are the most common type, his passive is too strong, as are his passive defensive bonuses.
Guardian - Increased base stat gain, buffed Protector and Unbreakable, adjusted Always Prepared
The Guardian is meant to be the definitive lategame tank but right now he's relatively weak. These changes won't hugely increase his power, but should bring him more in line with other tanks.
Warlock - Slightly increased summon stats
The Warlock currently doesn't scale well enough into lategame. Still, no major changes.

Fixes
Updated the Guardian's icons
Fixed the Warlock's Pact tooltip
Fixed the Truestrike tooltip
Fixed the Excalibur bug
Fixed (maybe) wall bosses.


Not much of a changelog for this version. Obviously there were changes before this one, but since those versions have never been posted here, it's a tad pointless to mention them.
However, there are a few issues with this version that were discovered after it was made.
Bosses and enemies will occasionally get stuck up on walls. This is most common in the third area, though it does happen in a few of the others. You can use the -unstuck command to create a dummy that will move the first unit it attacks off the wall and to its position. I'm not 100% sure how to fix this, but the unstuck command can be used to fix it in almost every situation. You could also use it to cheat and look ahead, but really, what kind of person would do that?
The other issue of note, though this is far less prevalent, is that Excalibur will make the hero who drops it lose 5 damage even if they didn't use the active. I'm currently looking into this and will ideally have it fixed soon.


Credits

Special Thanks:
  • Cman2002. Seriously, this guy has tested the game so many times. So. Many. Times. It would be a glitchy mess without him and I could never thank him enough.
  • Renamon and Zyrlin. They also tested the map constantly and caught some of the biggest bugs, even though they didn't test as often. Again, I can't thank them enough.
  • The rest of my friends that tested the map, Jakemaster64, MrPengyPoo, Guhjah/Vestakia. We've had a lot of fun...probably more suffering, but it came out alright.
  • Anyone else who plays the map. Seriously, even if you hate it, thanks for giving it a shot at least.


Expresso, Tranquil, Grendel, G2J, FreddyK, Judash, Callahan, Wandering Soul, Kimbo, Makuza, Terem, Frankster, Alastor, Sin'dorei300, Hexus, skrab, Mephestrial, Olof Moleman, wingednosering, eubz, Sellenisko, The Weird Human, Kibasz, .KC, apaka
Loading Screen - Ryosios on Pixiv
Map Preivew - Zinnkousai3850 on Pixiv

Soundpack

Check out the game's soundpack! This allows it to have music but still be under 8mb for Bnet play. Simply unzip the file and put it in your Warcraft 3 folder. It should look like this (varying on your OS, of course)
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Warcraft III\Roguelike\(the mp3 files and credits)"
I make no promises this'll work...but it should. It does for most of my friends, so I reckon it will probably work for most people.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/vr7n9x/_files/Roguelike.zip
Author's notes


First map released to the public. While it definitely isn't my first work, it's the only one I have any pride in because it's the only one that isn't total garbage.
Map Description Template Created by -Kobas-
Find more here: Map Description - Templates



Keywords:
Roguelike, Roguelite, Dungeon Crawler, RPG, Co-op
Contents

Roguelike 2.6 (Map)

Reviews
23:20, 6th Apr 2015 Orcnet: I like the concept of this dungeon crawler, giving random starter locations whenever a new map starts, somehow I am having a hard time spotting what enemy unit is causing a quick death upon my push against the enemy...
Level 3
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
48
Haha! A new version at last! I'll let you know about my experience playing the map.

> Warlock is much more convenient to manage with control groups now, but one minor thing worth mentioning: When I design hotkeys for a long term use, I look at them from ergonomic perspective. The first question is "Would it be convenient to use?", and the second one is "does it strain my hand or is it natural?".
Warlock is a hero with a couple of summons, so he would assign them to control groups quite often, thus any one of them should be easy to access and IMPROVE. Managing units requires to press modifer keys quite often (SHIFT, CTRL and ALT), so that is a pinkie's territory. Ring, middle and index fingers then naturally lie on QWE respectively. R is used for spells not so often used, but spells that need to be accessed quickly. R is the best for this, because horizontal motion is faster and more precise. Lower rows often used for additional spells.

Let's take Wisp in DotA as an example. It has 6 spells, each of them are used a ton during a fight.
Relocate(ultimate) (teleports you and your tethered buddy to any point of the map [R]) cd 80
Tether (you attach yourself to one of your allies once every 20 seconds [E]),
Overcharge (drains your mp and hp, but provides attack speed and dmg resist to you and an ally you tethered to [Q]) no cd.
Energy balls (spawns 5 balls, that rotate around you [W]) 20 sed cd
Additional: Increase radius between you and balls [D], Decrease radius [V]. no cd

So lay your hand on the keyboard and imagine you control this slow, squishy micro intensive beast.
You need to turn on and off overcharge to block hits from foes for a brief period and then turn off to preserve hp at manageable level.
You need to manipulate distance between you, and your constantly spinning energy balls, so every one of them would hit it's target (skill shot)
You need to use tether to save allies or get away from danger. When you see your carry ganked you need to wind up Relocate and tether at the right moment (often within 0.5 seconds) to save his ass ;)

So in this example the most often used hotkeys are: QWDV and then ER.

Now think about Warlock. if you are healer, then most common pattern would be Coil, Summon one demon (often tank) and buff it. Right now it's RRRRR QF, Shift+1 (add it to warlock group), CTRL+2(assign him to his own group). In this case F feels awkward because of stretch, and right after that you need two completely different gestures for modifier keys. In this case using thumb would be muuuuuuuuuch better. Most natural position (at least from my experience) is [V].

For a DD summner most used pattern in his micromanagement is of QWE (summons) then you need to buff it with pact and assign to groups. And again V suits much better.


This is my personal experience with many heroes like this. When you play micro intensive heroes you know how important the ease of acces is.

>> Don't know if reworked brave swings are better or not, but the skill feels much smoother now.
 
Last edited:
Level 3
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
48
** Updateable journal of sins: Maybe it isn't necessary, but people would almost never open heplf file after defeating a sin, unless they are told to or nitified in some way, thus all thous juiсy, yummie, sweet'o hilarious records would stay undiscovered.
.... Whoopsy.. It seems that I was so deeply immersed into the game, that never niticed that journal notifications.... for a whole damn week!

** Reduce Observer's vision range to 450-500 to prevent scouting abuse.
** Sometimes items spawn on the walls (like for example in the last area of the cathedral by one of the fountains on the cliff), so either make this places unpathable, or allow observer to also move items. To prevent ferrying between locations abuse - restrict items to be moved only within one location(stage).
... maybe... or maybe not)
 
Last edited:
Level 1
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
5
The Pugulist and Shaman's permastun make the bosses too easy. I'd suggest nerfing them or maybe removing them and replacing them with a different skill/passive.

The Guardian also makes the game far too easy with his 10 second taunt and basically unkillable stature he has late game. I don't know how to change it to make it more balanced, it's just something my friends and I noticed.

My friends and I have been nonstop playing this and love the map. Definitely looking forward to newer versions!

I'd love to see more characters and more items, probably favorite Warcraft 3 map of all time.
 
Level 1
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
5
Also, can you try to implement a random function? It'd make the hero selection so much easier since they're all really fun to play.
 
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30

Haha! A new version at last! I'll let you know about my experience playing the map.
This is my personal experience with many heroes like this. When you play micro intensive heroes you know how important the ease of acces is.

Well, maybe. However, for me, the V key feels like more of a stretch whereas F seems very natural. It's a shame that you can't just map your own keys for Warcraft 3 like you can for other PC games. If anyone else who has played this has input on it, I'd like to hear it.

Don't know if reworked brave swings are better or not, but the skill feels much smoother now.
Well, better or not better may be subjective in this case. Personally, I'd say it's better. Glad it feels smoother though, that was mostly the intent I had.

Updateable journal of sins: Maybe it isn't necessary, but people would almost never open heplf file after defeating a sin, unless they are told to or nitified in some way, thus all thous juiсy, yummie, sweet'o hilarious records would stay undiscovered.
Damn, really? I could swear I had it to flash the quests tab after sins died, but apparently not! That's pretty simple to fix, definitely going to get on that.


Reduce Observer's vision range to 450-500 to prevent scouting abuse.
Done.

Sometimes items spawn on the walls (like for example in the last area of the cathedral by one of the fountains on the cliff), so either make this places unpathable, or allow observer to also move items. To prevent ferrying between locations abuse - restrict items to be moved only within one location(stage).
... maybe... or maybe not)
I'll see what I can do. Someone else informed me of a method to check cliff height when placing things to prevent enemies, bosses and items from spawning. When I get some time this week, I'll see if I can get that to work. If not, I can at least try to make the observers able to grab items.

Thanks!

The Pugulist and Shaman's permastun make the bosses too easy. I'd suggest nerfing them or maybe removing them and replacing them with a different skill/passive.
The Shaman's gimmick is his incredible crowd control. He mostly just ministuns, though, so I'm not especially concerned. He isn't especially durable for a tank, lacking some of the other tank abilities (Razor Armor, Iron Wall, Protector, etc). I don't know if I'd call him overpowered.
As for the Pugilist, I didn't know he could stun bosses. I thought I had Fist of the North Star marked for enemies only, but it appears I screwed up. I'll give it a buff to compensate, but remove the ability to effect heroes.

The Guardian also makes the game far too easy with his 10 second taunt and basically unkillable stature he has late game. I don't know how to change it to make it more balanced, it's just something my friends and I noticed.
Hm, he may be a bit overtuned. I can tap him down, but keep in mind he's meant to be the definitive "tank." He doesn't provide anything but durability. The other tanks give damage, major crowd control, buffs, etc. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to lower his numbers a bit.

Also, can you try to implement a random function? It'd make the hero selection so much easier since they're all really fun to play.
Been working on a random system on-and-off for a few versions. It always seems to work, but whenever I test it something goes horribly awry. Still, I'd love to have a random system. The currently planned (no promises) hard mode would be an all-random mode, making people really have to play to what they're given.

My friends and I have been nonstop playing this and love the map. Definitely looking forward to newer versions!
I'd love to see more characters and more items, probably favorite Warcraft 3 map of all time.
Aw, shucks. Have you found the hidden character yet? I'd like to think he's pretty well hidden, but if you've played it a lot there's a possibility. I'd also like to add new items, but that's something for later. Right now the items are more buggy than I thought (see the many, many above posts), so I'd like to get them sorted out a bit better first.
Thanks, though. I mostly made this game for friends, but I'm glad to see other people enjoying it. It warms the blood in my black heart.

Anything I didn't address from other posts has (ideally) been dealt with in 2.11 or has been marked down. Thanks for the feedback!
 
Level 3
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
48
>> If anyone else who has played this has input on it, I'd like to hear it.
Well, V is supposed to be pressed with a thumb)

There are some ways to to map spells, but you need to know code of the spell from editor. Then with this info you can tweak it with CustomKeys.txt file.
Other option is to remap the keyboard using AutoIt. Then, when you need to send a chat message - turn off the script, and when it's sent or canceled - turn on again)). It's perfectly doable. ... within a week or more from nothing.

>> I can at least make the observers able to grab items.
Obs inventory may work or not, but if there may be some items dropped in the earlier stages, you can't pick up due to requirements. If you will allow obs to move between locations.... Also if it piced up an item then you can order it to move to your hero with M, and it will travel through the portals to get there.

I just realized, that the way your triggers for Faith item and such work now, if someone Hermit's another identical artifact, then it will work only for the last hero acquired it. In case if each item can spawn only once, then my previous statement is completely irrelevant.

We've just played with a friend Over+Shaman, and I can say that 6 seconds stun on bosses is quite high. Maybe I got this feeling because we found faith and pizza in the early forest, but still)


>> Thanks, though. I mostly made this game for friends, but I'm glad to see other people enjoying it. It warms the blood in my black heart.

You've done a formidable work fixing bugs and listening to feedback. It's strange to see 1500 downloads and so little reviews for such a great map.

P.S. New Pupetier is fun)
 
Last edited:
Level 1
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
5
Hidden character? Oh my goodness, we had no clue. No idea where to start looking for them.

And the Pugilist stun not being intended makes so much sense lol, the perma stun just made the game ridiculously too easy.

I'm glad you're taking this feedback, I appreciate your care for your fans.
 
Level 30
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,551
This is just my favorite map.

Subbing to the thread to take note if any updates come by, and also to congratulate you on effectively wasting over a month of total playtime with friends on the battle net :)

You could have invested a little more time in visuals, but it doesn't bother me. The random factor really is random, and the map is overall catchy and stunning. As I said. Fav map :)
 
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30

Well, V is supposed to be pressed with a thumb
Oh. Well. That makes a lot more sense the the claw-like positioning that I had thought out trying to figure out how the V key worked into that.

There are some ways to to map spells, but you need to know code of the spell from editor. Then with this info you can tweak it with CustomKeys.txt file.
Other option is to remap the keyboard using AutoIt. Then, when you need to send a chat message - turn off the script, and when it's sent or canceled - turn on again)). It's perfectly doable. ... within a week or more from nothing.
Ah, I had no idea. I don't know that much about programming or, to be entirely honest, computers in general.

Obs inventory
I didn't mean observer inventory, I could have worded that better. When I said grab, I more meant the same kind of pull that it currently has.

I just realized, that the way your triggers for Faith item and such work now, if someone Hermit's another identical artifact, then it will work only for the last hero acquired it. In case if each item can spawn only once, then my previous statement is completely irrelevant.
In early alphas of this game, some items had duplicates. That said, there's definitely enough items that I feel no need for item duplication, so that isn't something you need to be concerned about.

We've just played with a friend Over+Shaman, and I can say that 6 seconds stun on bosses is quite high. Maybe I got this feeling because we found faith and pizza in the early forest, but still)
It's very possible. The Shaman's Spiritual passive used to be much less reliable, so actually being able to chain spells may have made him too strong. I can reduce his stun duration a bit. Definitely not unreasonable.

You've done a formidable work fixing bugs and listening to feedback. It's strange to see 1500 downloads and so little reviews for such a great map.
Well heck, this is still way more attention than what I expected.

P.S. New Pupetier is fun)
Good to hear. I was hoping he'd be a bit more interesting now.

Hidden character? Oh my goodness, we had no clue. No idea where to start looking for them.
Keep an eye out during the character endings (only if you beat the very definitely final boss, not Apocalyptia). He's not especially easy to find, but I reckon that makes it all the more satisfying to find.

And the Pugilist stun not being intended makes so much sense lol, the perma stun just made the game ridiculously too easy.
This is one of the really good things about having people playing outside of my small group of friends. None of us even take the skill that stunned, so there was no way we could really figure out that it had such an effect.

I'm glad you're taking this feedback, I appreciate your care for your fans.
I figure if someone's actually taking an interest in what I'm doing, the least I could do is respond to them.

You could have invested a little more time in visuals, but it doesn't bother me.
Well, I'm still pretty amateurish mapmaker, especially with terrain and visuals. You should have seen it before 1.51 when the map's terrain was almost entirely remade!
The random factor really is random, and the map is overall catchy and stunning. As I said. Fav map :)
Thanks!



That's all for now, folks.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

Can we pick the hidden character? Or is it just for looks?

I think one can get randomly access to the secret hero by randomizing the hero instead of choosing one.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Level 1
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
5
At the end of each character's ending (for the full game beating Gideon, not Apocalyptia) there is one part of the code. While ideally it would involve beating the game with every character at least once, you can probably figure out some of the letters by having others.

Ooo, so that's what the letters are for. I was like.. was this a mistake? LOL
 
Level 1
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
1
Just a couple thoughts on things that might improve the play experience:

- Starting game in a safe area / Moving enemies out of spawn zone

- Fixing it so all items drop on player death (I believe soulbound items are just being deleted in 2.11)

- Fixing the massive ongoing lag problem in cathedral (with the long boss chain), three different players in the same game were crippled and unable to play or dropped entirely.

Cheers.
 
Level 30
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,551
Found a few things more you might want to consider remaking or fixing.

Bugs:
-Some acquistion (aggro) ranges are wrong. Ritualist's way too high, making her instantly pull creeps in 99% of cases when you pick her. On the other side, Priestess' seems to have less of it than her attack range, should be 600.
-There should be a set of sight blockers between all areas. If you stand near the edge of the first area for an example, creatures like harpies or even a ranged boss can aggro you.
-Malganis managed to one-hit my characters in few games, with me having multiple times hp of his damage. You'll want to check it out.
-Items should say if they work with Huntress' glaives or not: these don't; any critical or true strike, gae -armor, bash items, etc.. Those cause either her glaives or attacks to malfunction.

Suggestions:
-Compared to any other carry, the Huntress is just not worth it. She in most cases dies from sloth or splash damage, due to her short range. All classes have at least one defensive mechanism, like Archer and 95% evade, while she has none. My suggestion is to give her the range of 475 or 525, remove bouncy attack, and make Sonata give her minor bonus range (up to 700 maybe) and bouncy glaives. Would pay up slightly for her squishiness, and orb/crit malfunction.
-With Mend only to heal Undead, the Priestess can't invest points wisely to make both Holy and Mend functional, while keeping her Drain, HP and MP upps high. Meld is useless as it gains insignificant heal per lvl, and CD stays the same. Buff it up.
-Also, Inspire's cost is ridiculously high for what minor buffs it provides. I never use it until I patch up 6.000 mana, which is practicaly the end.
-Ritualist's mana/attack speed upp should be mana/attack damage, as ritf gives max attack speed.
-Passive skills need passive icons. I can't stress enough how much it ruins visuals.

That's it for now, will post others later.
 
Level 3
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
48
Just a couple thoughts on things that might improve the play experience:

- Fixing it so all items drop on player death (I believe soulbound items are just being deleted in 2.11)

Losing items sucks, but it is not a bad thing. This forces you to make decisions and and answer play carefully, like in any normal roguelike.

- Fixing the massive ongoing lag problem in cathedral (with the long boss chain), three different players in the same game were crippled and unable to play or dropped entirely.
Cheers.

Well, in the third part of the cathedral my friend tends to drop 50/50. Some report lag I never experienced. Maybe because I was a host?

-Items should say if they work with Huntress' glaives or not: these don't; any critical or true strike, gae -armor, bash items, etc.. Those cause either her glaives or attacks to malfunction.
Look for crit & bash articles in the Internet for this info. There are plenty. In short, for melee most of the effects work fine, but for ranged units only one buff placer can be applied per attack, unless map developer rewrote attack system via triggers. So glaves/barrage/crit/bash/armor reduction/incineration are all buff placer. The only combination that works on ranged and doesn't on melee is lifesleal+orb of frost.

> -Compared to any other carry, the Huntress is just not worth it. She in most cases dies from sloth or splash damage, due to her short range.
The only splash I could think of is Pit lord's (Mageridon) an it NOT pose any threat to huntress if dealt with intelligently. Look for the articles about how the cleave attack modifier works.

> All classes have at least one defensive mechanism
Yes, because Huntress is a pure damage with insane boss kill potential and immense wave clear.

> -With Mend only to heal Undead
Don't know why you complain about priestess. We've beaten the game with her multiple times. Mend is a low cost high heal for the early game + periodic sustain for the skirmishes, while her Holy light covers the rest.
Mend works for all but mechanical units.
> Inspire's cost is ridiculously high
...but it's good for what it does. Inspire is a before boss and late game damage buff. Maybe armor values could be a little higher.
* Berserkers's rage (+80% dmg on attack) removes Inspire. Either make rage a triggered ability or give Inspire buff priority (if it is up don't apply rage)

> Priestess' seems to have less of it than her attack range, should be 600
It's good as it is now, becase she isn't a right clicker, neither she will be one. Why would you want to agro creeps on your very squishy self?

> -Passive skills need passive icons. I can't stress enough how much it ruins visuals..
Maybe. Or maybe not.
It doesn't bother me at all. Maybe you want oppenions from other people on this matter.
 
Last edited:
Level 30
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,551
Thanks for explanations of buff placers and cleave system, but with 12 years of mapping experience, I believe that I'm more than capable of fully knowing these :)

Anyways. Today an Archer of level 2 just instantly died when she tried to pick up early Spirit of the Night. She was full HP, full MP, and had no items. Weird.

Also, one more thing got into my mind, which is when a character dies or player leaves. Those situations cause a soundless transpo from some Ancient-modeled unit (I guess it's from the last Boss) which lasts for around 10 seconds. Problem is, apart from not making too much sense, this transpo causes you not to be able to click on a Hero portrait to pan the camera to the unit, and you also can't click a skill and then click on portrait to cast it on yourself. It should be revised or removed.

On a side note, while I really get Super Gluttony idea to get in size, it's just too much. You can't heal or cast spells precisely on those who you want, and wherever you try to right click to move, you just attack him. Too big, really too much. He should start with 1.0 size and gain 0.2 per hit, which would cause players to engage and kill him fast before he floods the area up.
 
Level 3
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
48
> Thanks for explanations of buff placers and cleave system, but with 12 years of mapping experience, I believe that I'm more than capable of fully knowing these :)

^_^

> Archer of level 2 just instantly died when she tried to pick up early Spirit of the Night. She was full HP, full MP, and had no items. Weird.

Lvl 2 archer has 11 str and 270 hp, while spirit of the night reduces all stats by 15, so she would have -30hp. Simple math.
The same goes for Alien slug + soul calibur = -550 hp.

> On a side note

Agreed. Lvl 100+ gluttony covers the whole screen)
 
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30
For starters, my sincere apologies about the lack of any updates or word from me over the past few...what, months now? Real life unfortunately caught up to me and I simply haven't had the time to work on the project more than a few minutes a day, if even that. Still, I've found I really miss working on it and am going to get back to it. Expect an update soon, probably within the week or on the next.
Here's what to expect - New difficulties, removal of the "wall objects" bug, random system, more lore, tons of balance changes...more stuff, maybe. Probably not, that's quite a bit and is the result of many tiny pieces of work.
And now, some responses.

- Starting game in a safe area
Yep, next version.
- Fixing it so all items drop on player death
100% intentional. Soulbound items are meant to stick with heroes after death. Some are for coding reasons, others for balance reasons.
- Fixing the massive ongoing lag problem in cathedral
I'm afraid I've never experienced this...I've cleaned up the Cathedral's code a bit, maybe it'll help.
Some acquistion (aggro) ranges are wrong...(etc).
Most of those are intentional. The priestess, for example, I don't want randomly aggroing something. Most other heroes can actually deal with things that they accidently attract, she really can't.
There should be a set of sight blockers between all areas.
I suppose so, yes. I'll add it to my to-do list.
Malganis managed to one-hit my characters in few games
Odd. Can't say I've ever seen him be that much trouble. I'll take a look, see if something weird is going on. Was this in the Cathedral or the forest?
Items should say if they work with Huntress' glaives or not
Yeah...there's my laziness kicking in. I'll make sure it gets some mention on her tooltip.
Compared to any other carry, the Huntress is just not worth it...
Her lack of defensive mechanisms is her main (and really, only) weakness. Most carries only get single target or spread, but she gets both. I've always felt she was stronger than others, if anything. Just have to throw her some defensive items...though you can't always get them and that could be an issue. Dunno. I'll play her some more and try to come to a decision.
Mend/Inspire
Mend has had some changes in the upcoming version. It's going to be intended as a replacement for the Priestess' auto attacks. Not a strong heal, but one that can be spammed in combat, since it isn't like she deals damage.
Inspire on the other hand is something I've always seen as a luxury. If you have the mana to be casting it, you don't need to spend as much on healing. You do have a fair point about the effect for the cost, though. I'll touch it up a bit.
Ritualist mana/AS up...
Do you really use it on yourself, though? I always tend to pick her into Overlord or Soldier, those that can't provide the AS for themselves. The ability itself is a bit odd I'll admit, since it has limited use once agility breaks a certain point on most carries and they have max AS anyway. I'll consider it.
Passives and icons
This in part is due to it being something that doesn't bother me and again, laziness. If you could direct me to a way that I can easily get icons for passives, I'd see what I could do.
which is when a character dies or player leaves. Those situations cause a soundless transpo from some Ancient-modeled
Yeah, my bad. Should have tested it more before release. I've fixed it.
Super gluttony...
Shame, I find it hilarious. Still, I see the point. He won't be as huge.
-Roll command
Can do.
I'm having problem loading saves...
Loading games crashing was never intentional, but I'm partly glad. The game is meant to be a rough slog and a roguelike. It wouldn't be hard to savescum, which I absolutely do not want. It's unfortunate for people without the time to play, but hopefully one of the new modes will be good for those people.

Good lord, that took forever. I really have to stay more on the ball...but no promises. Anyway, as I said, new version coming up soon, sorry for absence, etc.
That's all for now, folks. Thanks for the feedback.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

This in part is due to it being something that doesn't bother me and again, laziness. If you could direct me to a way that I can easily get icons for passives, I'd see what I could do.
You know, the map submission rules require you have to have the right icon types.

It is not that much if work and it greatly improves the visuals and does not cause confusion for players, as it already did many times. I had players asking me why their ability does not work, as they thought it is an active one..
 
Level 1
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
2
Just a few bugs I noted in 2.20b so far.

-The two spectators can pick a hero and they are hostile to the rest of the group, this tends to end games in the safe room.

-The new random feature seems to have some issues, as it can result in a hero being picked twice, but not spawning for the 2nd person to try to get it, resulting in a lost hero right away.

Other than that...lunatic mode is awesome. ^^
 
Level 3
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
36
Found a game-breaking bug in version 2.20b. I'll try to give as many details as I can, though this was my first time playing this map.

The bug:
The two bosses, Xerath and Yumyum (I think that's his name), in the third environment (the magical one) were invulnerable and didn't move. I'm not sure if they were invulnerable the entire time or if I did something which caused their invulnerability. Either way, since I couldn't kill them, I had no way to progress.

Details:
- Single player
- Hard mode
- I did save and load into this game with WC3's save/load system (I was testing something out)
- I killed literally everything else in the area. This includes the tower that spawned after some time. There wasn't a single enemy left (I checked all the walls with the unsticker).
- I had gone through and was fighting inside the bottom-right Waygate room when I noticed Xerath was there, standing next to the Waygate (I hadn't seen him before this). It looked like he had followed me into the room. It's possible he became invulnerable after going through the Waygate, judging from his position.

Well, that's as much as I can think of. I'm going to start a second playthrough and hope the bug doesn't persist.

EDIT: After my second attempt, I have determined that I managed to sequence break for the above bug to occur. When I went through to the magic area on the first playthrough, there was no Next Area Waygate. I was also in the midst of fighting some woodcutters, something which didn't occur the second time. It's likely that Yumyum and Xerath were invulnerable because they retained their natural invulnerability that bosses have before you unlock their area. In any case, that means the bug has something to do with the forest area instead. I can't remember if I defeated the second forest boss the first time.
 
Last edited:
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30
Alrighty, I've already read a good bit of the new responses in the thread and done some work, but I reckon I should get some more responses in.

I've played this map quite a bit on war3, and I gotta say it's a good map. Well done, 4/5
Thanks!

For passive icons, check Button Manager in our tools section.
Can do.

You know, the map submission rules require you have to have the right icon types.
My bad on that one. I misinterpreted that. I thought that meant no buttons as green squares (due to lack of a disbtn file). Either way, I've already fixed all the icons for the next version.

...The two spectators can pick a hero and they are hostile to the rest of the group, this tends to end games in the safe room.
Whoops. Fixed it already.
The new random feature seems to have some issues, as it can result in a hero being picked twice, but not spawning for the 2nd person to try to get it, resulting in a lost hero right away.
I thought I fail-safed that, but apparently not. I'll do a bit more cleaning up on the random system.
Other than that...lunatic mode is awesome. ^^
Glad you like it. I've been having a blast with it, myself.

Found a game-breaking bug...(accidently sequence broke)
The sequence breaking via waygate to the next area is another thing I thought I fixed. I'll take a quick look into it.

That's all for now. I'm working on some new stuff for this weekend or maybe even Friday, depending on how well I can get it working. Either way, another update (though a much smaller one) should be coming up soon. Thanks for all the input and for playing, folks!
 
Level 3
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
36
I kinda regret not playing more before making my first post on this game, but I guess what's done is done.

Anyway, the game is tons of fun with decent replay value. Here's some more feedback from me (all single player hard mode). No theme, just some things I thought were worth commenting on:

- The boss Seymour is basically an infinite mob generator. Nothing wrong with that, it makes up for how squishy he is by himself. One thing you might want to look into though...the enemies he generates can drop runes and coins. Since they're also quite weak I could train on them indefinitely, healing with all the runes they dropped.
- The range of Cleave is MASSIVE. It seems to hit in a long cone in front of the hero.
- The Berserker's Furor ability is...a little too powerful. Maximum 500% bonus attack damage on 0 cooldown for what's basically nothing. Minus 4 armour isn't very much considering that it's made up for with two levels in one of his passive skills. He already has high base damage potential and Furor just shoots that up to ridiculous levels. Combine that with high attack speed and everything just gets obliterated. Granted, I did get lucky. Observe:
Combine this with Cleave and I was clearing swathes of enemies in every room.
zNnpY6f.jpg
Bonetooth Necklace + boss gauntlet run = all the bonus attack damage.

- Woodcutter boss (at high levels at least) stunlocks the guy he's hitting. I went in without knowing that, and since I played on single player, well...
- Sloth is really annoying when you have to run at him from a distance (like in that pit of Sins near the end). It takes me like a minute or more to walk to him from his max range.
- In the pit of Sins, the one Super Sloth that I saw in there was just an immobile invulnerable. Is that a joke or a bug? I progressed fine without killing him so...

Also, a bug:
It's possible for two Sins to spawn at the exact same time (due to multiple Horrors dying at once). When that happened to me, both Sins were stuck being invulnerable and unresponsive. No more Sins spawned for the rest of the game after that...

That's all I have so far. I apparently haven't figured out how to play as anyone who's not a strength fighter without dying in the first room so I can't say anything relating to those guys. Hope to see more updates!
 
Level 1
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
1
2.11 was great, and 2.20b is even better. Lunatic mode is absolutely great, but there're two severely annoying issues I've come across now, on three runs I could not win due to them. Stunlocks.

-The Gluttonies, both spawns and the Sin room. A single Gluttony can permabash you to death and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you have Evasion and a lot of it. Same goes for the Woodcutter. But here, at least Evasion helps.

-The thrice cursed fire creeps in the third area and as Seymour's spawns in the bossrooms. They have the stun ability, don't they? And it cannot be dodged. I also couldn't remove it with Jade of the Exiled, which is supposed to remove all debuffs.

Difficulty is great, but those two, especially the latter, make a singleplayer clear quite impossible.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
11
Demon Saint Scroll (The Byakuren Item) Is supposed to give 30 all stat (In the description) but only give 20 all stat in reality.
Lunatic mode is too frustrating to play as single player due to the permabash but actually quite fun with a lot of people. Two people is managable.
And please let people other than red use the unstuck function too...
Also sometime when the shop keeper is stuck in between trees (in region 2) it's really hard to find him.

Also in Lunatic, the root ability (on creeps in region 2) have a really long range, they manage to root me when I am in region 1.

P.S. Do you plan on adding hard/extra mode too? :>
 
Last edited:
Level 1
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
1
Coming BE CORRECTED both bug

bug:

-Critical Error
-hero Bug
-fatal Counter

-Details:


- Single player
- Hard mode
- I did save and load into this game with WC3's save/load system (I was testing something out)
- I killed literally everything else in the area. This includes the tower that spawned after some time. There wasn't a single enemy left (I checked all the walls with the unsticker).
- I had gone through and was fighting inside the bottom-right Waygate room when I noticed Xerath was there, standing next to the Waygate (I hadn't seen him before this). It looked like he had followed me into the room. It's possible he became invulnerable after going through the Waygate, judging from his position.

Roguelike 2.20c?
 
Level 2
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
11
I suggest that the Second Big Boss ( The one with the Tree Protector ) in the Catheral should remake her skill
She summons like... 20-50 protectors which lasts for about 100 seconds and CD with just about 40 seconds and it can cause severe lag
 
Level 2
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
6
@DeathDruidX. May it be possible to add more people to this game instead of Spectators?

I think perhaps you could add a trigger that adds more XP based on the amount of X players in the game to make it balanced.

Do you play on UsEast? If so can I contact you over there or Garena?
 
Level 1
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
4
@Nii-San I don't think this map needs anymore players.. but maybe that's just me :]

anyway, this map is amazing.
looking forward to the updates!u better update this shit
 
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30
And real life caught up again. Oi vey. Hopefully I can sneak in some time to actually work on this damn thing, but we'll see. Anyway. Responses.


Stunlocks, etc
Well, for starters, Lunatic definitely ain't made for single player. That said, since this release, the stuns have been adjusted and the gluttonies especially have been nerfed since this version.
The logger though...he actually permabashes even on normal. The only real solution to this, in single player anyway, is to have a summon. Chances are you'll run into Envy at some point and can get her item, but if not, you might find something else.
Either way, stunlock has been toned down in the next version. I don't know if it'll be toned down enough for single player lunatic to be feasible. Can't say I've tried.

Demon Saint Scroll (The Byakuren Item) Is supposed to give 30 all stat (In the description) but only give 20 all stat in reality.
Damnit. I even wrote that one down, but I forgot to fix it. I'll make sure I do.

Lunatic mode is too frustrating to play as single player due to the permabash but actually quite fun with a lot of people. Two people is managable.
I've done it with two people and once with three. I really like Lunatic.

And please let people other than red use the unstuck function too...
That's one of those archaic things from the older versions where it would be insanely easy to abuse with multiple people. That said, I'd say it wouldn't be too much to ask for me to allow that.

Also sometime when the shop keeper is stuck in between trees (in region 2) it's really hard to find him.
I'll see what I can do.

Also in Lunatic, the root ability (on creeps in region 2) have a really long range, they manage to root me when I am in region 1.
That'd probably be because it's just the root from the bosses. I'll lower the range.

P.S. Do you plan on adding hard/extra mode too? :>
I do plan on some other modes. A boss rush (start in the Cathedral and get items from bosses), time attack, other stuff. We'll see, though.

Critical Error...
Hm...weird. Bosses can definitely walk through waygates without going invulnerable. If it happens again, save a replay and throw it over.

Roguelike 2.20c?
Definitely not. The changes for the next version are already way too far along to release as 2.20c but equally are too far from finished to just post now as a new version. Better to be delayed and good than rushed out and broken, I reckon.

I suggest that the Second Big Boss ( The one with the Tree Protector ) in the Catheral should remake her skill...
Yeah...probably should get on that, huh? Funny as it is, I suppose it would be a pretty big problem for lag.

@DeathDruidX. May it be possible to add more people to this game instead of Spectators?
Gonna say no on that one. Honestly, I think 6 is too many. People who played the really old versions before it was even posted to Hive would know it was originally a max of 3. 6 is fine. Plus, I love being able to spectate random games on the Bnet I see hosted from time to time.

I think perhaps you could add a trigger that adds more XP based on the amount of X players in the game to make it balanced.
I'll consider it.

Do you play on UsEast? If so can I contact you over there or Garena?
I do, yeah. I really only log on specifically when I see a game I like being hosted...
If you want to contact me, through Hive is a good way. If you'd prefer Skype, I have that too. Shoot me a PM, we'll work something out.

anyway, this map is amazing.
Aw shucks, thank you.
looking forward to the updates!u better update this shit
I will, I swear!

That's all for now. I'll try and get the update finished, but I dunno. Sorry about the silence.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
12
Thank you for the map. Been playing it for awhile with my friend.

I have some suggestion with Guardian, the taunt skill should be AOE like Knight.
And DeathKnight's DarkPact should heal when enemies die, not just "Horrors". Cause i see major of enemies are "Enemies" and some are "Horrors", you can just decrease the heal % for balance.
 
Level 3
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
36
Took a look at the changelog for v2.21, great to see so much of our input being factored in :thumbs_up:

The Berserker definitely plays more like what his class is known for thanks to the Furor change. Heck I actually accidentally died with him thanks to playing as carelessly as I was with his old version. This is good.

One question though: is there a cap on player attack speed? If yes then the Berserker's Berserk ability is almost completely pointless, since he already has decent base attack speed for the start of the game and later on he usually gains enough speed to not require Berserk's help (and risk its drawback). Whatever the case may be, I've personally played Berserker many times and each time I literally didn't put a single level in Berserk until the end, and was completely fine for damage output.

The new soundpack is nice and adds some variety and excitement to the map. I for one have been growing tired of constantly hearing the Human race music over multiple RPGs. Although, the custom music takes a few seconds to start/loop, and the original music will come in for that little interval. Sort of breaks the flow a bit.

One issue I've been having since I started playing with v2.20 is entering the dungeon and being placed right next to the boss. For many (if not all) heroes this is basically an instant death sentence and my game is over five seconds after it started. I mean, either I stay near the boss and die to it or I run away and get overwhelmed by the cluster of enemies that I'll inevitably bump into. If the boss is ranged, I don't even have to bother running.

The above issue wouldn't be so bad if I could immediately restart and repick, but the map takes a rather long time to load for something that has replaying as a main feature.

Again, I've still only played on single player on Normal mode, so that's the context for all my feedback given here.

SIDE NOTE: If anyone knows how to survive as a squishy carry, I'd love some tips. I've only successfully played as Strength tanks (and the Rogue, cause Evasion) since I die in the first room with heroes that aren't them. I haven't tried literally every hero but after I noticed the trend I just stuck to what was comfortable.
 
Level 2
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
20
Please, make multiple heroes available in solo, PLEASE!!!!!! You can do it with a command to type or something! Else we grow tired of playing in solo.
I usually stop after zone 1 or zone 2 (in solo) because it becomes easy, boring, too repetitive and too long until you reach the very last boss who is most of the time unkillable if you don't have tons of crits and tons of healing (vampiric aura).

Playing in multi is very interesting though but Red (or the whole team) should have a way to declare war against the guys who do shit in the team to force them to stop doing shit.

=======

About attack speed, it seems like you can't go past a certain +% of attack speed. But you can still increase it with agility (but can't really measure it ingame).
Also, max speed for each hero is not the same, a slow hero will always have a slower max speed than a fast hero.

Yes, it happens in 50% games to spawn near boss for me.
Here is an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JIix727xOE

I made a video about Assassin and Huntress, you can get some tips from it.
Here is the huntress video: https://youtu.be/inu-DVkmYUU
Here is the Assassin video (but Assassin is not fun to play in solo, so the video is alike): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xszpoVkwX2M
Here another about Assassin which is much funnier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPCzmp-Oyeg

If deathdruidx made a thread to post videos, I guess it would encourage people to post videos of roguelike which is funny to watch, especially the deaths :p
 
Level 3
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
36
Maximum possible attack speed depends on attack animations time, or in other words, it's how much time it takes from second of the Hero starting the animation, and how much time until damage is done to an enemy. That's max attack speed achieveable for every hero.

That doesn't really help with much considering attack animations can just be sped up. Although, I can't seem to recall playing any map (well made or otherwise) that allowed any player-controlled units to achieve those ridiculous attack speeds that make the animation look like seizures. It's mostly end-game bosses that attack so fast that their attack sfx drowns the rest of the audio out, or just intermittently cuts off because it can't keep up. Slightly amusing, but often very scary.
 
Level 30
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,551
There's a difference in total duration the amount plays and the least amount it's needed to launch a projectile. Base attack speed also adds up here.

If you look at Windrunner's stats from DotA for an example, her damage point is 0.3, which means it takes 0.3 seconds from the start of initiated attack for her to actually fire off an arrow. That's maximum attack speed for her too, regardless of how much the speed bonus is, she can't attack faster than that 0.3 required for damage point.

If it was 0, she could get her attack speed anywhere possible and do them ridiculous attacks.

Hope it's clearer now :)
 
Level 1
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6
Man i love this map!!! The first time ive ever played a fan made warcraft 3 mao ( I dont know how you pro guys call this but for me is a fanmade warcraft 3 map :p) i downloaded and spent almos 10 hhours with a friend on the weekend playing it, it was damn too much fun for real braught me back to being a kid playing diablo and stuff you know? i made an acount in this forum just to let you know this mate great work!!!

The only suggestion i have for you is to make the first stage have some more stuff as enviroment cuz it feels a littlo empty and that sucks, and also i woulf recomend to have some kind of achievement system that rewards you for keep playing, that wuold be awesome!!

Greetings from Argentina sorry for the bad english! Great job!
 
Level 1
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6
Hey man i love this map can someone start a wiki page for it?? There is ton of info id like to know :)
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
11
There's a difference in total duration the amount plays and the least amount it's needed to launch a projectile. Base attack speed also adds up here.

If you look at Windrunner's stats from DotA for an example, her damage point is 0.3, which means it takes 0.3 seconds from the start of initiated attack for her to actually fire off an arrow. That's maximum attack speed for her too, regardless of how much the speed bonus is, she can't attack faster than that 0.3 required for damage point.

If it was 0, she could get her attack speed anywhere possible and do them ridiculous attacks.

Hope it's clearer now :)

Actually, Base Attack Time is the main factor (I know that is a DotA 2 article but the mechanism and the formula are the same, too lazy to find a WarCraft article about it).
I've played Angel Arena and some map with hero that have ridiculous attack speed and have already test it myself in the editor a few years back. What I'm seeing is that when I set the BAT to 0.1 (or 0.01 or something I don't remember the smallest value since it's been a few years) and give the hero billion of agility/attack speed. He skip most of the animation (the animation doesn't need to finish at all). However I'm not saying that the animation (and front/back swing and damage point and everything) is not playing any role at all but rather they do decrease (or partly ignore?).

Maximum attack speed gain can only be 500 (100 base + 400 from item or agility, stuffs) in WarCraft (DotA 2 raise it to 600 some time ago)

In Roguelike 1 Agility = 2 IAS (1 agility = 1 IAS in DotA) <= this ratio is whatever the map maker set it to be.
Smallest BAT is Huntress with Moonlight Sonata (0.7) so... 5/.7 attack per second. Next is Sinner 1.0 (iirc), Pugilist and Rogue 1.1 slowest is either Magus or Warlock with 8.0 BAT or something.

And yes, because 1 Agility = 2 IAS then Berserker's Berserk is completely pointless mid to late game. Since you gain 100 agility from the upgrade and 40 base agility or something that slowly grow to 100 for a total of 200 agility (400 IAS - the cap) not mentioning items.
^Sorry to the map maker if I remember that wrong but I am quite sure that 1 Agility = 2 IAS in roguelike, last time I checked.

That might be a thing that you want to change next patch :p.

Now for my feed back for 2.11:

Mid game refer to region 3 to 4 and Late game refer to 5 to the end.

------Assassin------
Assassinate (The ability that instantly kills any creep every X second) does not give you or your teammate exp for the kill.
Maybe change it to a normal crit or bash that have cooldown and only hit creep/horror?

Her spell cast animation is really slow... I can't really use Death perception without being stun before activating Cloak of Shadow - so using it to engage something like a lust or pride early on is impossible without being stunned and killed, of course I can rely on my teammate to tank the boss first (then I deal like 16x my damage per hit) but still...
------Archer------
She is quite cool but the problem that I'm having is her acquisition range...
Her attack range can get up to 1140 but only if I click attack on every thing if for any reason I use A-move then boom, 600 attack range It's really annoying. Increasing it in the object editor won't help since she will just randomly go aggroing everything so maybe use trigger to change it after the upgrade?
------Priestess------
She is very boring to play right now due to the lack of interaction with the enemy. I understand that her damage has to be situational but why not just gives her utility spells that interact with enemy? Or just at least change some of her spell to make her feels better to play :).

Holy Light feels awesome to use especially when you can nuke Sin/Region 1/Region 5 Bosses. Mend makes your squishy tanky and your tank unstoppable. If you are lucky enough to also get Holy Water? GG. Or being an apple distributor also makes you feel that you have something to do, quite fun actually.

Blood Boil... I think Blood Boil and Siphon Mana needs to be changed...
Blood Boil in the early and mid game cost too much mana and gives little benefit. Holy Light and Mend make taking Blood Boil or even Inspire a total waste of Lumber (and mana). Mid/Late game the attack speed component is irrelevant (due to ias cap unless, of course you need warlock/magus to use their basic attack the only main targets would be Overlord and Assassin but then again... Items...) and movement speed is somewhat? useful but banner from wrath already gives enough ms It's not really justify to spend 275 mana for a bit of movement speed improvement (except when you are trying to run away from wrath or lust :p but Lunatic mode just doesn't give you that option). All in all.. Using Blood Boil feels bad.

Siphon Mana... You can channel it for 3s but most creep just don't have that much mana, most don't have any mana at all making upgrading it only useful against bosses. Most of the time I'll just upgrade her mana pool and pick up mana runes (Heavy competitors: Alchemist, Dragon Lord, Psychic and Ritualist - Warlock used to need a lot of mana) while having 2 or 3 level in siphon mana and I can pretty much spam all I want (Yes I don't use Blood Boil at all and taking Inspire later on when I have more than 6000 mana).

Also I think that Inspire duration is wrong... you should check that spell duration and fix it (=_=;)・・・
------Attack Speed-------
Right now some carry have both upgrade to attack speed and damage.
Despite having the same cost most just seems not as beneficial as damage upgrade (except for rogue passive but that too is irrelevant late game).
Very early on damage just flat out gives you more dps (Archer upgrade for example gives her 18 damage or 15% IAS, she has 60 damage early on and 125 base attack speed) mid game you just want to take you main ability (because they are so good) EX: Sin takes Greed (he does take 2 or 3 point in wrath because his stat is shit), Huntress takes +%Dmg -5 armor and her passive, Archer takes true strike/evasion/searing arrow (some might argue that taking attack speed AND searing arrow might be good but her mana pool is very limited so you don't want to rely on this spell), Rogue takes attack speed 1-2 level to also have ms then max out crit/evasion and his damage ETC. Late game attack speed is irrelevant (unless you are playing Assassin or Overlord). And most just have attack speed item.

Also, as I've mentioned, Berserker's IAS spell is... useless

Either buff these upgrade and make them fitted for the early game or gives them others quality (Like rogue passive also gives him movement speed)
------Death Knight------
He... Either go solo or off-tank or just not taking health siphon.
Lunatic really hurt him (Priestess and Magus also has to channel siphon mana/Flame Rain/Star Shower but never have this problem) with all the stun lock making channeling the siphon for 8s... an incredible task to pull off since he also have to be in the front line.
Maybe decreases the duration and increase the hp/s to compensate?
------Magus------
His spell... Is really weird...
Lightning is supposed to deal the most damage instantly to a single target.
But on some early level its damage is just a bit more than Nova (Nova never out damage Lightning in single target damage but the Damage/mana ratio however is) while still cost a lot more then later on the different is huge again. Maybe look at the number again and make it consistent? Star Shower is a good wave clear ability has short cooldown, decent damage, huge AOE, large cast range and cost less than 3 time of Flame Rain while doing one third of the damage and have much larger AOE and mini stun.

Maybe tweak his number a bit? Because as it is, right now, Maxing Nova and Star Shower or Lightning and Star Shower is always better than flame rain. Flame Rain in theory can hit multiple unit thus increase its damage tremendously compare to Lightning but not that much creep can actually tank 1 or two wave at all or even a single nova or star shower. Basically only bosses got hit by all of the waves, that makes Lightning better because it is instant and undodgeable, Nova too if you don't need that much damage and need the slow. Using it to wave clear only works in choke points.

Mana is never an issue with Magus but leveling up Flame Rain feels not worth it.
------Chaos Damage------
I've looked at your map trigger a bit.
A lot of them are Chaos attack type with Normal Damage type
I think this is intentional? I believe most map maker know the different between attack type and damage type.
So why write "deal chaos damage" in item/ability description? It's not as important as "deal pure damage/magic damage/ETC". Maybe write both of them in the description?
It's really confusing.
For example: Macho snack's damage is Chaos-Normal and Akira Suit is Chaos-Universal. But both is "Chaos damage" in the description despite being very different.
------Test Mode------
:p Maybe include a mode where you can test out item/hero and stuff without having to restart the game and look for them?
------The End------
Feel free to disagree.
 
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30
Alright, I got some time, you all have some concerns, let's throw out some answers!

Thank you for the map.
No, thank you for playing it.
I have some suggestion with Guardian, the taunt skill should be AOE like Knight.
Gonna say no on that one. While it would be better for the Guardian, his taunt is far more powerful than the Knight's taunt. It silences, lasts longer, and has a shorter cooldown. That's the price to pay for power.
And DeathKnight's DarkPact should heal when enemies die, not just "Horrors". Cause i see major of enemies are "Enemies" and some are "Horrors", you can just decrease the heal % for balance.
I mean...there are plenty of horrors, especially endgame.

Took a look at the changelog for v2.21, great to see so much of our input being factored in :thumbs_up:
:thumbs_up:
Berserker's Berserk ability is almost completely pointless, since he already has decent base attack speed for the start of the game and later on he usually gains enough speed to not require Berserk's help (and risk its drawback).
Berserk can be ideal in certain situations. Should you get the item from Super Gluttony early on, even the Berserker's agility becomes dismal by the end of the game, resulting in low attack speed. Now obviously if he's your only frontliner, that's not going to be worth it. But, if he's your carry, then he can get away with using Berserk to regain that lost attack speed. All that said, I'll admit it's rarely useful, especially for a Berserker.
...the custom music takes a few seconds to start/loop...
Yeah, I know. Workin' on it.
One issue I've been having since I started playing with v2.20 is entering the dungeon and being placed right next to the boss.
I've only seen it happen once or twice, but I'm willing to bet it's related to the new way bosses spawn (which is less leaky and doesn't let them spawn on walls). I'll see what I can do.
...long time to load for something that has replaying as a main feature.
Well, games can last around 1-2 hours. Though, if you're playing only single player, games are bound to end a lot faster.
If anyone knows how to survive as a squishy carry, I'd love some tips.
Hope for a good starting item and learn aggro ranges extremely well. It's kinda hard solo, but definitely possible. My head tester has beaten the game solo with every character...even though some characters required more than 100 runs to succeed.


Please, make multiple heroes available in solo, PLEASE!!!!!! You can do it with a command to type or something! Else we grow tired of playing in solo.
I'm working on it. Chances are that's going to become broken as all hell, which isn't a priority for me. The game's really meant to be played with a bunch of people. It's pretty popular on Bnet, see if you can get a game or two.
Playing in multi is very interesting though but Red (or the whole team) should have a way to declare war against the guys who do shit in the team to force them to stop doing shit.
Most bots have commands to kick players. When players get kicked, their units poof away and leave items behind. I've never played on Garena but I assume it's the same.

...Assassin and Huntress.
You seem to think that both of them are bad...
If deathdruidx made a thread to post videos, I guess it would encourage people to post videos of roguelike which is funny to watch, especially the deaths :p[/QUOTE]

Man i love this map!!!
Thanks, man.
The only suggestion i have for you is to make the first stage have some more stuff as enviroment cuz it feels a littlo empty and that sucks
Terraining is my weak point, but I can do some more stuff probably.
some kind of achievement system that rewards you for keep playing, that wuold be awesome!!
I'd love to do that, but I honestly have no idea how I would.
Greetings from Argentina sorry for the bad english! Great job!
Your English is good enough, friend. Thank you.

------Assassin------
Assassinate (The ability that instantly kills any creep every X second) does not give you or your teammate exp for the kill.
Maybe change it to a normal crit or bash that have cooldown and only hit creep/horror?
Eh...I mean, one enemy worth of exp isn't really that bad.
Her spell cast animation is really slow... I can't really use Death perception without being stun before activating Cloak of Shadow - so using it to engage something like a lust or pride early on is impossible without being stunned and killed, of course I can rely on my teammate to tank the boss first (then I deal like 16x my damage per hit) but still...
The Assassin really isn't meant to be absorbing blows, so I'm not really seeing that as an issue. Cloak of Shadows is an emergency kind of tool - not one that should be using as a tanking method.
------Archer------
Trigger to change it after the upgrade?
I don't know if you can change acquisition range with triggers, but I can look.
------Priestess------
She is very boring to play right now
I, and a fair number of other players that I've played with, would disagree with you on that. In fact, she seems to be one of the favorite heroes of a fair number of people.
Blood Boil... I think Blood Boil and Siphon Mana needs to be changed...
Both have their own utility. Blood Boil is super useful for low agility carries (Overlord, Pizza!Berserker, Warlock) and Siphon Mana does what it needs to do. The Priestess is plenty good. She doesn't really need reworked.
Also I think that Inspire duration is wrong
Might be. I'll look.
------Attack Speed-------
Right now some carry have both upgrade to attack speed and damage.
Despite having the same cost most just seems not as beneficial as damage upgrade (except for rogue passive but that too is irrelevant late game).
The attack speed upgrades are often an early game spike. If your team doesn't have great damage output, you can take those upgrades.

------Death Knight------
He... Either go solo or off-tank or just not taking health siphon.
Lunatic really hurt him
Death Knight is really tanky. Truthfully Life Drain is a mediocre spell at best and most people just use Death Coil as sustain.
------Magus------
His spell... Is really weird...
Agreed. He needs some work. That said, he's still pretty good. I dunno. He probably needs changes, I agree...but I have bigger priorities.

------Chaos Damage------
I've looked at your map trigger a bit.
A lot of them are Chaos attack type with Normal Damage type
I think this is intentional? I believe most map maker know the different between attack type and damage type.
That implies that I'm not a terrible mapmaker. I'll look into that, I did not realize this.

------Test Mode------
Could.


And now I'm going to bed.
 
Top