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Religion's (Particularly Christianity) place in modern society

Discussion in 'Medivh's Tower' started by WILL THE ALMIGHTY, Jun 9, 2007.

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  1. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    Oh ok.. my bad.
    Wait, are you saying we aren't allowed to follow our desires?
    Hey, while we're at it, lets have the parents sell off the daughters to the desirable peasant men, and marry for money and not for love!
    Gilles, if that's how you feel, that people can only follow the desires that the Christians want them to, then go live about 400 years ago, you'll love it.
    --donut3.5--
     
  2. Shados

    Shados

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    Oh, so we shouldn't follow our hearts? We should be perfectly, coldy logical abominations working towards..... what? Without desires, without a heart, we have no purpose. Killing and raping are not correct analogies, as they cause harm to others. Two consenting gay men having sex doesn't cause harm to anyone else, it does rather the opposite, causing alot of pleasure and joy for them. Are you not closer to the killer and the rapist by trying to deny many others' pleasure and joy to protect your own naieve point of view?

    -*meow*
     
  3. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Do you guys only take one side or the other. Far left or far right?

    So you think we should just follow our hearts? If our hearts say it's ok then it is? I was merely pointing out that the argument that gays are just following their hearts/desires is not valid. Because people can follow their hearts to murder. Not saying that we can't ever follow our hearts, just that it doesn't always lead us to moral actions.

    I never stated that we can't follow our desires. Look at my post.

    Is that more clear?
     
  4. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    In this logic, it would not be right to love at all, as it would be succumbing to your emotions. You would only have a partner for mating and collaboration, the logical routes.

    And they say atheists are materialistic...
    Because clearly, there is a way to find a gray point between "I have nothing against gays" and "I hate gays?"
    Just what the hell do you think love is? Some kind of gang? If you don't follow your heart in love, just what is the point of it? You say you should not follow your emotions in love, but love IS an emotion.
     
  5. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Did I ever say we can't ever follow our desires? Nope. Read carefully guys.

    I was simply pointing out the flaw in the argument that gays have an automatic right to follow their heart. Rapists don't have that right. It doesn't prove that homosexuality is wrong, it merely proves a point mute.
     
  6. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    And why don't they? You never said why they can't, just that they can't. Or is it just because God says so?
    --donut3.5--
     
  7. Shados

    Shados

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    Like I said (In other words), rapists do not have that right because it impinges upon the rights of others, by raping somone you're doing something to them that they don't want (Else it wouldn't be rape ;P), but you don't have that violation of others' rights in consensual gay sex. Everyone has the right to follow their heart as long as it doesn't fuck with other people's rights.
     
  8. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    Yes, but that goes back to ethics. Just what part of ethics says that gays are immoral?
    QFT.
     
  9. Gilles

    Gilles

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    MSBB you still are not following me.

    Shados on the other hand, makes a good point. What about drugs? Why can't we do them? Because they harm us? Well IMO homosexual acts hurt us, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
     
  10. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    You're saying that something that is okay emotionally isn't always okay ethically, so I'm asking you how, ethically, is homosexuality bad? You already answered this below, so don't bother. I'm just telling you what I asked.
    Emotionally? Weren't you the one that said you shouldn't follow your emotions and instead exercise free will?
    Physically? How?
    Spiritually is entirely unstable. I can tell because not everyone is Christian.
     
  11. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    Define us. If you mean everyone else besides the gays, they hurt nobody. If anything, we hurt them.
    If you mean the gays, no, its their lifestyle, as I have said many times, nobody is hurting nobody besides our attacks on their lifestyles.
    --donut3.5--
     
  12. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Whoops. Didn't mean to say us there. I meant it hurts the person committing the act.

    I have already given my reason for physically. STDs. MSBB read the previous post for more info.

    Emotionally I didn't think Homosexual relationships work out. I was partly right according to this article. Homosexual couples work well enough together, maybe even better, but are much more likely to break up. You could consider my point.. pointless. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions based upon what I've heard from other Christians. :p

    Spiritually, of course this is pointless if you don't believe in spirituality, but I do, so personally for me it's valid. I guess I could have left that out too.
     
  13. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    Okay, let's assume that every gay couple intends to have sex, just like every heterosexual couple intends to have sex, right? Or is are you saying gays are just a bunch of horndogs?
    Anyways, being gay puts you at higher risk of STDs (let's just say)...so? Being a man shortens your lifespan. Being white puts you at a higher risk of skin cancer. Does that mean the white male population was not meant to be? For 40 years, women have had a lower SAT score than men. God must have intended women to be unemployed as well.
    Christian couples have a higher divorce rate than atheist couples. It can therefore be concluded that Christianity is harmful emotionally as well.
     
  14. Hakeem

    Hakeem

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    The difference is that you have no choice about gender or color.
    Homosexual sex is indubitably a decision.
     
  15. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    I know. Other than the one about Christians having a higher divorce rate, most of them are about things at birth. But it really shouldn't matter. He's saying that if something puts you in more physical peril than you would be without the thing, you could say that the thing is physically harmful. And it is. Everything is. The problem is trying to find the limit to self harm. Like eating fast food. We all do it, and we know it's more harmful than something healthy. We can still most likely live a perfectly fine life if we eat it, but it's harmful nonetheless. Should we ban it? No.

    How much self harm can be accepted as reasonable?

    And assuming gay sex is, in fact, an excessive physical danger to yourself, what about gay love? Are you against that as well? If so, why?
     
  16. Elenai

    Elenai

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    Mabye not. But Evolutionsists, will not give any ground to any possibility to ID.

    I meant specific scientific knowledge

    And I read part of that article...Influential in the rise of modern philosophy...and the Scientific Method. Interesting. They still did not build modern science. They laid a brick.

    Ha...extremes! That is exactly what I said. "You will not see an octupus come from a bacterium [NO MATTER HOW MANY STAGES IT GOES THROUGH]"

    And even then...if there were so many stages...so many hundreds of stages. Show me. Essentially, Prove it.

    And I suppose charities, and ministries, and medical studies who are desperately trying to find a cure, or a treatment, or educating people on how to not spread it, simply do not exist?....you said you never see that kind of thing. But they are there.

    A statement of incredible irony.

    Show me these small changes.

    Again...show me. Prove they can.

    I am not an evolutionary Biologist...But I do know enough about Evolution, to see glaring flaws in the theory, Gapping holes, and in adequate physical proofs.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Gay Rights movment mocks religious beliefs more than we ever mock their sinful act. Consider that.

    We are not the oppresor...They are oppressing us. Trying to break down our sacred doctrines with law, trying to become priests when clearly they are disobeying God, trying to force Gay rights agenda down the throats of elementary children and flaunting it in every corner.

    Trust me Donut. You may think that Christians are trying to shove our beliefs on others, and our religion on schools, and in the public square...We are simply defending our rights.

    The Gay Rights community is doing FAR more to shove their lifestyle on others. More so than we have ever tried to show our beliefs to the public people.

    God invented love. So what he says, Goes.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prove it.

    And Gay sex is a physical health hazard.

    Homosexuality is also not at all a good environment for family building. And as asked before...Why is it moral?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  17. Hakeem

    Hakeem

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    I do. I firmly believe that God made the big bang happen, and that everything since then has been exactly what God wanted to happen. He made the universe, and he made physics to go with it.
    Nothing can defy his laws (which include physics).
    I present unto you a trick question:
    Which is harder for God:
    Creating everything in seven Earth days
    or
    Creating everything via scientific laws?
    As does everyone. Dang, and I have the perfect quote to go with this, but I forgot it. Something about standing on the shoulders of others.
    Just how big of a post do you want me to make? o_O
    I'm sure you could figure out some parts, so why not just ask me the ones you are in doubt of. (Like single cells to multicellular.)

    Let's examine the series:
    I said I don't know of people trying to save people that are doomed.
    You described things where there is still the possibility of survival.
    People trying to find a cure for AIDS are probably not trying in vein. If they find a cure, then there is the possibility of survival. But, during the period in which AIDS is incurable, trying to save someone with AIDS is a futile effort.
    EDIT: Can you please use the Quote button, because the arrows are very useful.
    Yes, but evolution explains very much, what it doesn't explain is not a problem. Can you judge someone on what they don't say?
    I would like to, but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the brain, but I can try to explain other things you deem impossible.
    Please inform me of such flaws, I would like to know if this theory is indeed false.
     
  18. Elenai

    Elenai

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    Is he not Omnipotent? Is he not capable of making the Earth in seven days? I am not exactly sure if it was seven 24 hour days. But surely evolution as it is now is against scriptures.

    Like the Terri Shivo case. Many people wanted to keep her alive.


    No thankyou.

    Evolution hardly explains anything. It does not explain the origins of the first organism for example.

    Continuing irony.

    The inadecuacies of the fossil record to show (what I would call a movie) of evolution, instead of snap shots of similar species that are only assumed to be ancestors of species of today.

    The failure of evolution to explain the origins, or show the first organism.

    Inadequacies in the dating. (It is mathmatically incorrect, as assumptions are put into the formula, and thus an assumption is the answer) And the fact that carbon 14 does not measure back more than a few thousand years...hardly millions.

    Carbon dating is flawed, the Carbon decays at different rates and other issues involving it...Essentially the clock of Evolution is majorly off time.

    And other things I have explained in the Evolution thread that was closed long ago.
     
  19. brad.dude03

    brad.dude03

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    Back to the original topic:


    Religion is a good thing, but I think it should not be taken too seriously. For me, religion is way of further enhancing the self. Through meditation and reflection we gain additional wisdom; through things like yoga we gain greater health, and through prayer, good deeds, and karma, we enhance our relationship with ourselves and others, our fellow human beings, and our inner human being.

    My point is, religion shouldn't be used just as something to turn to when life fails, it shouldn't be something fanatical, it shouldn't be forced on others, and it shouldn't persecute others ever.

    It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe in something (Atheists believe that there is no God, hence a belief, so they use this belief to further their lives in other directions), because it's a good way to step outside of yourself and take a real good look at life.

    Alternatively, live how you want, and die free without worry of consequence burdened upon yourself. We can never really know how things are until we die, so why waste your life worrying about it? Enjoy life, while it lasts, and leave it to that.
     
  20. Kjiverx

    Kjiverx

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    correct in all but one thing- through science we gain greater health. yoga is asian madness. science is the way forward.

    other than that, this thread seems to have been wrapped up by brad.dude03.
     
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