1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. We have recently started the 16th edition of the Mini Mapping Contest. The theme is mini RPG. Do check it out and have fun.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Choose your ride to damnation in the 5th Special Effect Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The winners of the 13th Techtree Contest have been announced!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Vote for the best entries in the 13th Music Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Proposal for More Responsible Staff Members

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by ~Void~, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. eubz

    eubz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,176
    Resources:
    135
    Models:
    77
    Icons:
    16
    Packs:
    1
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    26
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    7
    Resources:
    135
    Ooops, sorry for that. I will just edit my post.
     
  2. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,680
    Resources:
    1
    Icons:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    dont be so modest eubz, you could totally be a moderator too, you've made tons of great models here, you're certainly experienced enough
     
  3. Magtheridon96

    Magtheridon96

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,006
    Resources:
    26
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    8
    Tutorials:
    7
    JASS:
    10
    Resources:
    26
    Totally.

    Though, when I actually take the time to read your resources, what they do and how they work becomes pretty clear for me.

    It's just that you have way too many resources that do so little in favor of modularity, which is why people often see some of your resources and wonder what the whole purpose of each one is.
     
  4. ~Void~

    ~Void~

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    6,448
    Resources:
    14
    Icons:
    8
    Skins:
    2
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    14
    You need to stop posting this kind of crap in my thread. This is not for circle-jerking and talking about who could be a good mod. Read up.

    :vw_unimpressed:

    EDIT: I want to add another thing to my argument. For staff members with a community focus, it's not just about maturity. It's also about social skills. You need to have a good understanding of people in order to manage a community.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  5. Squiggy

    Squiggy

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,627
    Resources:
    18
    Maps:
    2
    Spells:
    15
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    18
    You know, Void-kun, back when I was a mod here (coincidentially Community Mod), I proposed lots of stuff and pretty much everything was rejected after long, long arguments with either Hakeem or Poot (or both lol) and frankly, the only thing I'm seeing after a certain time of inactivity, the only thing I'm seeing is more trolling, pony avatars and a new policy taking away any privacy and/or liberty concerning the respective users.
     
  6. ~Void~

    ~Void~

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    6,448
    Resources:
    14
    Icons:
    8
    Skins:
    2
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    14
    That's cool, but I'm trying to help change things around here in light of the recent crisis which forced a lot of Hive's senior members to acknowledge some deep-seated issues with the way the site's been operating during the past few years, and I think this is our golden opportunity to rework Hive from its core. Your defeatist attitude isn't helping.

    Either jump on board or jump ship, broski.
    :ogre_rage:
     
  7. Asomath

    Asomath

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,042
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Which I have a great sense of Admiration for. When you're dealing with people over the internet, is very easy to feel disconnected from the person. Plus, you don't get a lot of things like facial features, gestures, and vocabulary choices. Although, the latter still exists, it’s just typically heavily filtered by the user, and you have to notice those nuances. It plays back the same way; the staff member has to figure out how to appear affable simply using words. So, a great respect for moderators who can do so successfully.

    @Squiggy I also have no suprise that it takes awhile to push anything around. I guess seeing moderators doing their own thing on ocassion is somewhat understandable. But yeah, the flow of the sight seems to be slightly sluggish with only the occasional radical change. It would be nice to see the hive frequently updating itself, at least, to a gentle extent.

    ~Asomath
     
  8. FockeWulf

    FockeWulf

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    45
    Resources:
    4
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    Not that my words carry any weight around here, me being strictly SC2 modder and all of that but I have done my share of forum moderation.

    Once upon a time I was chief modderator for a DotA League... And any ideas that moderating would be fun got out of my system real fast.

    I can say a few things on this subject.


    Lax forum rules and enforcement, although certainly more appealing to the masses in priciple, will ultimately turn a any good moderator sour. There is a point where even the most patient person will break and I saw it plenty of times.

    I suspect a lot of the people who lost their powers were once "by the book" types if you catch my drift. But immaturity taxes patience and stamina alike. If the rules are tolerant then immature types will debate every point and decision that a modderator makes. Initially the modderators try to be tolerant. But after your 20th or so really immature person I think its fair to say anyone would be inclinded go to with a "screw the rules" policy.

    They will then do either 1 or 2 things. Either resign or start bending the rules themselves.

    I saw it happen over and over again. A moderator would get to the "fuck it" stage and then get reported and removed for the very first slipup or two.


    About the only forumula that has been proven to work is this: "If you are dumb enough to pick a fight with authority when you are a guest in their house then you deserve whatever punishment they give out to you."

    I have an example myself from back when I played DotA:

    I had had a very minor arguement with another player over some DotA strategy. Turns out that guy had a huge ego and a "bro" who was a moderator for Clan DXD (you might remember them).

    I hadn't said anything offensive (an amazing thing when DotA is involved at that level) and I got pulled into a private chat with that "bro" moderator and essentially told that if I ever dispute the slightest thing with that guy again no matter what the topic then I was instantly gone.

    And you want to know what my reaction was? I said: "Ok it won't happen again".

    Now why would I do that? This is why:

    One egotistical faggot wasn't worth getting perma banned from the best DotA league in USWEST (at the time, this was years ago) over. I know I was completely in the right but if I disputed the moderator then his "bro" was the one who would win, not me.

    You might be right but its a case of you would be "dead right".


    Same thing here. If they are incapable of swallowing their ego for the whole 10 seconds (tops) it takes to type out a statement that they have no real intention of honoring (not that I ever saw the douche again anyways and I don't even remember his name or the mods name anymore) then do they really deserve any room or flexability whatsoever?

    You might go through a lot of immature people but you ensure that you don't have moderators and admins going sour all the time.



    Then again though this is the viewpoint taken from the extreme of extreme cases. Nothing is worse than a 15-year-old DotA player who thinks he's "pro"...


    ...Not quite true but I'd have to show bias against certain races, genders and religions to give something worse.


    Again not that my words count for much around here but I figured a viewpoint of someone who's "been there, done that" might help inject some usefull thought.

    ...Or at the very least some enteraining trolling.
     
  9. Asomath

    Asomath

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,042
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Nonsense! A well-formulated opinion is always a welcome one. I believe ~Void~ has already said that he wanted sensible discussion and supported viewpoints in his thread, and I believe you serve that purpose nicely, even though some will disagree with you.

    Indeed, overtime a staff's patience will be taxed, not only by some ill-mannered users but also by the time commitment itself. I commend you for backing down. While others might see it as cowardice, I take the viewpoint that you simply realized what is important. There are plenty of ignorant and pompous arguments in the world, and it’s up to a person to decide which ones are worth fighting for, especially when the opponent has the upper hand.

    But, I believe what Ralle is trying to work towards is going beyond the simple intimidation that sometimes occurs within Hive Staff. To have Staff and Users be equals upon the field. The problem that arises is that one of these people has the power to "end" the argument in their favor. So the question that has been posed is whether or not it is possible for a staff member to treat the field as an equal, while still possessing the power. For it is up to moderator to level himself out in an argument, to step down from the Higher Ground.


    ~Asomath
     
  10. Direfury

    Direfury

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,140
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    140
    Icons:
    11
    Packs:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    It all comes down to adapting to your environment. A few years back, I was the leading Moderator for another forum, and I managed to keep the place going for about two years after the guy that set up the forum, aswell as all but one other moderator abandoned it.

    I accomplished this by relaxing with the community, giving a single, stern warning to rule breakers and banning anyone that broke a reasonable rule. If there's a "No spam" rule, and you won't shut the hell up about, I dunno... Ponies in a political thread, you'd recieve a visitor message detailing why your posts were deleted. Then comes an infraction and an hours ban if you lash out because you were punished. Afterwards, if it continues, you're gone for a day, a week, a month, and if it happens once more afterwards, you're gone permanently.

    My method kept troublemakers out of our hair just long enough that it wasn't a hassle for us to handle the situation. It also showed us what kind of person they are. If they show up after that month, their last chance, and behave, then we know they're trying to make amends. If they lash out again, we know they're not part of the welcomed element.


    If it works well for one moderator, over the course of two years, our beloved Mod Squad here should have no problems trying this for themselves. With all the uproar going on, maybe one of you can try this for the next week, and see how it goes. I'd like to hear about the results, to see if my method still works, especially in a forum like this.



    On an unrelated note, I really do miss my old title. It was fun being the Supermoderator. I had a cape.
     
  11. Asomath

    Asomath

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,042
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    @Vermillion

    It sounds like you are in favor of ~Void~'s three-strike policy (I believe he spoke about it in another thread) just in another form, where punishments get progressively worse after the third strike (because let’s face it, a one-hour ban isn’t actually much of a punishment, just a warning shot of sorts).

    The question still stands, however, are people capable of determining and following such a policy after a long time of arguments with different people over how they handled it. If so, how can such people be determined through ~Void~'s proposed system of adding moderators, and how do you punish the moderators who violate the system?

    ~Asomath
     
  12. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,680
    Resources:
    1
    Icons:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    i do not appreciate it when you harm my honour like this and accuse me of being insincere. Honestly, there are a lot of great users here who have been overlooked for far too long, users with the knowledge and skill to improve this great community for the better
     
  13. Nestharus

    Nestharus

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,146
    Resources:
    8
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    4
    JASS:
    1
    Resources:
    8
    And we don't appreciate it when you attempt to derail the thread. If you want to talk about that, please start a new thread. This one's topic is about possible requirements for staff members, the primary one being (as suggested by the thread's title) responsibility ^_-. Really, what you said I think belongs in a visitor message or PM ^_^.

    ->
    Unless you are saying that that is on the topic of responsible moderators?


    Anyways
    /agree to an extent. Not any good moderator will turn sour (if they are stubborn enough), but most would ;p.
     
  14. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,680
    Resources:
    1
    Icons:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    it's not off topic at all, you are discussing what it takes to choose or "be" good responsible moderators, and I am simply pointing to examples of people who exhibit the qualities you describe. People knowledgeable in their field and who would be responsible enough for the position.
     
  15. Crayons

    Crayons

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    everyone is mad.
     
  16. Karawasa

    Karawasa

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    331
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Don't get mad, get glad.
     
  17. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,680
    Resources:
    1
    Icons:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    you keep using that word my friend, i do not think it means what you think it means.

    both abstract and concrete concepts are equally valuable in discussing what makes a "good person" ... "good"

    abstract concepts are sometimes harder to understand, so it's ok if you dont quite "get them" right away.

    And presenting examples to solidify and validate your "concrete points" can only strengthen your argument, it would never derail it. examples help people draw connections, and visualize what you are saying. Adding examples is an integral part of presenting any argument to someone. I am simply agreeing with void and the points he has made here by pointing to outstanding members here who exemplify these qualities we have discussed.

    I'm quite confused as to why you are all so hostile to my genuine, relevant and genial suggestions and comments. It doesnt seem very family friendly
     
  18. Direfury

    Direfury

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,140
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    140
    Icons:
    11
    Packs:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    The one-hour ban is simply a way to tell them "No". If they persist, they're punished, and no attempt to hide it from the community is made.

    Keep a log of moderator activities, have them report what kind of punishment they give out, aswell as records of the incident as a whole. This may seem like a difficult, or tedious task, but it helps us see what our staff is doing. It also provides evidence that we can provide the public with, should some sort of issue (Possibly like ours) come up. As far as punishment goes, anyone caught abusing the system, will be demoted and punished for their actions, as they reflect badly on the staff as a whole.


    Until a situation comes up where you have to act, a moderator can be as big a part of the community as they can be. It may seem harsh, but punishment only comes about if you're way out of line.
     
  19. Asomath

    Asomath

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,042
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Sounds like that could be a position in-and-of-itself, someone to moderate moderator activity. Although that might sound silly, it’s not too hard to believe that staff focused on their own work would turn a blind eye to how a staff member does his.

    ~Asomath
     
  20. Direfury

    Direfury

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,140
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    140
    Icons:
    11
    Packs:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    It's more or less like an officer recording his activity while on duty. If something seems off in his report, the other officers look into it, and he's usually dealt with.