Discussion in 'Warcraft Discussion' started by Strydhaizer, Jan 29, 2020.
Trust me. You want to go down this rabbit hole
Hmm my stuff still looks fine though, no problems at all. Whoever can should probably do what you're talking about, but saying what you said initially is like saying that people shouldn't make triggers/custom maps unless they're proficient in vJASS or LUA because it's not optimal.
The required skills to optimize models for PBR is skills that maybe a fraction of THW has, and frankly, not a lot of the model makers has the ability and/or time to make as HQ models as Reforged. Which means map makers are left with some options; Wow models from Legion or WoD still looks awesome, Dota 2 models are passable, HOTS models are passable, Skyrim models looks fine but may be a tad bit too realistic when it comes to art style, and some other random HQ models that are found here and there. That's our options until the custom Reforged model repository catches up.
While I was as disappointed as anyone about the state of affairs on the release of Reforged, I believe things WILL get better. A rushed release is not necessarily the Classic Team's fault. I suppose Activision-Blizzard decided that they wanted it out now no matter what. We should distinguish between the Classic Team and Activision-Blizzard as a whole I think - the latter being a huge company which as a result of the amount of money involved is not based on love for gaming anymore (for many years already). This is an unfortunate essential part of companies that were creative in their origins growing too big and drowning in their own success. That doesn't mean that everyone working at Blizzard is evil or wants to ruin our beloved games. I think in time Reforged will become alright due to the Classic Team slowly fixing it.
Sad reality: support the devs-> support ActiBlizzard.
Recommending people utilize shaders right isn't like saying you should learn coding. Mastering textures for PBR is easy and requires very little hand painting unless you want to go crazy with designing the gloss map.
You mentioned keeping the look relevant by choosing games fitting to the art style. None of the games you mentioned support PBR. Reforged does. You're putting 1080p models from other games (some which don't have shaders at all) along side 4k PBR characters, the next gen graphics gap is huge. The custom reforge community won't catch up unless artists are willing to go the extra mile.
If you read thoroughly you see that I said "What you said initially" which, quote on quote, is "Just because you can rip a model doesn't mean you should simply import it with animations and call it a day. Reforged supports PBR which means you should update the ripped models to also support it as well as making full use of 4k".
It is still a skill most doesn't know, and probably will never care to learn.
You have been saying that, yet I can make quite nice looking terrains with models that has far worse quality than even WoW. It's not about the models being of the same quality, it's about aesthetics. If a map/terrain is aesthetically pleasing and the environment blends well then I don't care if the models I'm using is PBR optimized or not.
Which is why wow models are extremely relevant in this context.
I'm assuming you haven't ported any of these models to know what to do with their specular shader in a PBR environment. Wow models don't have one so of course they'll look the same, you'd know this if you ported them. They won't fit in with the 4k PBR characters though considering they're much lower poly and lack shaders. Sure they match the art but they don't look good along side modern day graphics, this is why the latest expansions in wow arent being mastered in 4k. The contrast between old and new looks bad.
Bottom line. I convert PBR textures. It's not a skill. I learned it in a couple days working with cryengine. You want to plop old textures without shaders next to next gen graphics go ahead. I'm just telling you it looks bad. You're arguing with me on something you never attempted. You don't understand what PBR is and you're explaining to me how difficult it is.
This is 100% subjective.
No, you're putting words in my mouth and going on and on about how they don't look good next to each other when I don't agree at all.
I am saying most people don't know it, and most people will never learn it.
Okay this entire thing started because you objected to what I originally said about utilizing the engine to make textures fit in with the next gen shaders.(comment wasn't even to you directly) I explained why for any reasonable people looking to keep graphics relevant which, by the way, isn't a controversial stance. You explained your opinion that you think they look "okay." Okay? Great, you have an opinion that low-poly 2048x2048 low poly shaderless models look fine with next gen graphics. That's all fine but for the record, it's not a lot of work, it's simple for anyone looking to learn converting them in 2 days. The difference isn't negligible for most people. It's profound enough in appearance that PBR was created and is the standard now across the board. This was going out to anyone who wants to add art to the game and make them benefit from the latest texture workflow. Most people in 3d art looking to learn texturing or texture editing will learn it if they value stuff looking up-to-date graphically. You can have your opinion but my point is that PBR is reforged and it's something to keep in mind for anyone looking to do any kind of texture work.
A simple tutorial:
PBR Texture Conversion | Marmoset
Actually this started with you saying nobody should use models that aren't PBR optimized.
I never said it's a controversial stance, in fact I even said that whoever CAN, should do what you're describing. You need to read exactly what I'm telling you and decipher (it's not that hard) what I actually mean.
I would disagree as most people have no idea how to optimize their shit for current gen graphics.
Actually, your initial statement was meant to everyone and anyone who used custom models. The statement that you later redacted, but that ultimately started this discussion.
That's all well and good, but I'm not a modeler or texturer. I'm a map maker.
I think I made my point clear enough that most can convert to PBR with little to no hand painting textures required. I'm bored of this. Tutorial is posted above.
Most people don't know how to delete a simple geoset from a model. Saying texture editing where some level of hand painting is involved is easy, is just ridiculous.
Expecting the same people who hasn't learned how to delete a simple geoset to learn, as you called it, next gen texture editing is even more ridiculous.
Kinda done with classic wacraft 3 modding, I was really looking forward to reforged, but I actually thought we'd have a new and updated editor, wasn't there talk of a model editor in there? support for more button-triggers in gui? (you know like we have up,down,left,right atm)
Game feels like when steam had the early-alpha-game spree, where everyone wanted to get paid asap... But blizzard is a million-dollar empire, why do they need this? It's just bad marketing for them
idk anymore, we'll see if it gets more attractive. It's a bit too worrying to start a project now, i see no guarantee that things will get better.
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