plz help me improve & balance this unit

[Rem]

This unit is a tank - its great against everything except for heavy air unit and units with strong magic attacks . . .i would really appreciate if some of you more experienced hivers would take the time to improve and balance this unit out. . . Thanks in advance <3

also I would like to thanks the many users that made this unit what is today:

@Pyrogasm
@-Phoenix-
@cleavinghammer
@Lord Aiden
@Lord_Earthfire
@DevZ
@Grey.Knight
@disruptive_
@MasterBlaster

And anyone else who contributed....

 

[DingoT]

820 health points?

increase health to at a minimum 1300 to make it a tank. also give it taunt. All good tanks need taunt

 

[Lord Alyx]

Spoiler: my though

I know u you are your're trying to make a tank for your faction without the use of permanent immolation, which would make it too op, plus gives it a food cost of 8, ....this is a great start, with a little more hp, a taunt ability and other various modifications you're of to a great start,keep up the ground work, and remember this tank should cost 6 food and that's preceptively what will make it so useful,

 

[ArchDuke]

argue as you might but permanent immolation is exactly what makes some units op and wind battles. dreadlords wouldn't not be a threat if it wasn't for their ultimatel: internal , permanent immolation is aOP ability that that not only wins battle but wars a well.

yes an infernal costs 8 food. but its worth every single food it consumes

 

[Lord Alyx]

@ArchDuke

i think you misunderstand's Rem's intentions; she's trying to improve her unit, while you'r going on and on about how permanent immolation is the the best ability, yes permanent immolation is is a good ability, but this has nothing to do with her unit, beside I think It is mentioned that her unit has a food cost of 6 not 8 like the infernal, there are many differences between her unit and the internal that there are not even in the same category

 

[Banelingline]

All good tanks need taunt

The property Taunt uses is actually part of the base unit's properties, Target Priority IIRC. Kicks in whenever you attack move, all Taunt does is give a forced retarget with an inflated value. Furthermore, the unit automatically takes 10 damage less from every attack it receives (though I'll note the tooltip lists the wrong values, it's hidden anyways, so it doesn't matter), so it ends up having an effective 1300 HP after being hit by 48 attacks in total, provided all such attacks deal more than 10 damage. Attacks that deal less than 10 damage, like some t1 unit attacks will, end up dealing no damage. At all. There's also a 25% damage reflection, 50% spell damage reduction and Resistant Skin, so against spell damage the thing has a frankly absurd amount of health. Not to mention 12 armor baseline, which is usually reserved for fully upgraded tanky t3 units.

Given its current actual statline, I'd say a good starting ballpark is 320 Gold, 80 Lumber and 6 Food on a production timer of 50 seconds or so. Not enough offensive power to be fully of the same status as Frost Wyrms, but certainly hardy enough to be a t3 superunit. It honestly just needs a more flavorful ability to replace the crit so it can have a fitting upgrade!

 

[Rem]

Thanks everyone I'll be sure to add some hp as well as give the unit taunt in the next iteration of the unit, any one helpful suggestions are also welcome
<3

 

[Rem]

@pyf care to give me a few pointers on improving my unit?

 

[Lord Aiden]

You know you can create a trigger that increase attack rate and/or attack damage as the units's hp gets below a certain threshold, you can also make the unit magic immune once it has lot hp, some interesting things to work with, also if the unit is belows 20% OF its max hp you could create a special trigger that splits the unit into 3 identical units....just some toughs

 

[Rem]

interesting stuff, but I don't think it'll be appropriate for this unit

 

[disruptive_]

In regards of skills i think Taunt is good. A short ranged and high value devotion aura that doesn't affect the unit but rather other allies can also work similarly like a taunt, as the unit becomes a target priority and behaving similarly to a bodyguard and indeed a defender.

 

[DevZ]

Some Idea;
1. Taunt (as already mentioned a much have for any tank)
2. Devotion Aura
3. More hp
5. pulverize
6. possibly a healing ability (like healing wave)

 

[Lord Alyx]

Ok @Rem here is my unbias suggestions

First off reduce the armor from 12 to 9 (12-->9) this will the unit more vulnerable, but to counter this give the unit a great deal of health

Let's say that instead of 820 health, this unit gets like 1380, this will really turn the unit into a tank (I have never seen a tank have with that little hp)

Also create a devotion aura that does not affect the caster, only the target units, in other words the unshakeable will not be affected, while any friendly units within 900 range of him will receive a bonus to their armor, this will work very well,

giving the unshkeable taunt would be a very good deal

Also if you want to make the unit really op either give it a ability that allows it to heal friendly units, or even more importantly resurrect them (but make the cool down very slow <like 2.5 minutes>) This will make the unit very op

Just remember the tank's primary functions is to basically be a meat shield; to absorb damage, it's second function is to dish out damage, that's why you might wanna give the unit a modified monsoon or fan of knives or something of that nature, hope my post has been helpful to you rem

 

[Rem]

I did what you suggested with lowering the Unshakeable's armor from 12 to 9, but giving the unit a hp of 1380 will make it way too op, I'm thinking like 1,150 or 1,200 at most

 

[Lord Aiden]

This reminds me of mission back when I was working on Silverntria, don't remember the name but it was where you have control of a small amount of elite units, while the enemy has a large amount of fully armored and ungraded soldiers; basically 600 hp footman, with 9 armor, and critical strike, "I believe they were called "Sons of Apollo" Damn that mission was hard to be beat...

 

[Rem]

I know what you're talking about it and there is no relation between the two, expect both unit have 9 armor, which I see as being a LOT for those simple foot soldiers and a LITTLE for a tank unit I'm trying to create here, I however can see how you drew the comparrison between these two, a point or two of armor is not what wins the day

 

[Lord Aiden]

Besides the things I've already said give it an ability like monsoon, or something similar that can damage all hostile unit in an area around it

 

[Grey.Knight]

lets see, first off. why 820 health points? I have seen plenty of tankes and they all seem to have 1000 or above health pointes, by definition a tank is supposed to take on a great deal of damage and still stay in combat, so a raise in heath is needed

About armor, anything above 5 is fine, weather 9 or 12, this doesnt make a great deal of difference

The vermilion veil ability is brilliant, I will give you that

But this unit needs something like taunt, and an attack like pulverize which does aoe damage

Either give it pulverize or come up with something that deal aoe damage to those surrounding the unit, this could be a stomp ability, a fan of knives knockoff, a bladespin type of ability........

Also giving it a heal ability might be a good idea, tanks that can heal will stay alive longer

lastly its very good that you have it a anti-air attack, this is pretty unique, I would recommend that you give it an ability that both damages a unit & stuns it, like thunderbolt, stormhammer, frostbolt, or maybe even shadow strike

 

[Rem]

820 hp was for balancing purposes

yes it will be more tanky with 1000+ hp, but it will also cost more more food and will have to be additionally balanced

For now Im thinking giving it 1050 hp, 9 armor, a fan of knives attack that triggers automatically, and maybe an aura that gives +1 armor to all nearby units except itself, how's that for an improvment, also it will cost 7 food instead of 6

 

[DingoT]

Listen make some sort of trigger which distributes the attack damage if 5 or more hostiles are attacking the hero, also give the unit some sort of auto heal ability, like unit heals by 50 for every 5th hit an enemy throws at it

 

[ArchDuke]

I would leave it at 6 food, but cut the hp to around 950, armor to 9, and maybe give it an aura ability that boosts the defense of other units around it and give it taunt.

That and the abilities it currently has will make it a more or less balanced tank, you just need to make up a decent name for the defense enhancing aura ability and youre good

 

[DingoT]

I would leave it at 6 food, but cut the hp to around 950, armor to 9, and maybe give it an aura ability that boosts the defense of other units around it and give it taunt.

That and the abilities it currently has will make it a more or less balanced tank, you just need to make up a decent name for the defense enhancing aura ability and youre good

Strong presence

How's that for the aura name?

 

[ArchDuke]

@Lord Aiden

Spoiler: @rep comment

Don't remind me of that level, its just sick in some bizarre way. To tell you the truth the level seems as if the protagonist is having a episode of psychosis while walking up a hill . ..not a pleasant experience, honestly with the music and everything its some disturbing shit, I bet you'll go crazy if you play it for like 10 hours straight

 

[Lord Aiden]

Sorry . . .

 

[ArchDuke]

apology accepted

Anyway back to the topic, the aura should be called "Strong Presence" or "Shielding Presence"

 

[Lord Aiden]

Archduke btw this unit is like the exact opposite of a Milreaver; it has a weak attack but very heavy on defense

 

[ArchDuke]

Speaking of Milreaver, @Lord Aiden do you remember what abilities the field marshal (the boss enemy) had in colonel aster's map when you had to face off with his armies? I remember him being super op, but I can't find the damn map, and all I can really remember was him having a strong devotion aura and some type of thunder attack

 

[Lord Aiden]

I have the unit (not the map) saved in one version of the campaign

His default is thunderbolt (a modified storm bolt)
1st hero ability is discharge (modified fan of arrows)
2nd hero ability summons units
3rd hero ability is devotion aura
The ultimate is a modified engineering upgrade called Advanced Mastery, which greatly enhances all the other abilities including the default, I think a level 3 devotion aura gives like +8 armor after you learn this

 

[ArchDuke]

Ok, now it makes sense, I thought his ultimate was an enhanced devotion aura

 

[Lord Aiden]

I really wish that colonel Aster would have finished that map, although it would not be as epic of a battle as other maps, it would've been a great battle never the less; just think about all the elite units the greys have:

Milreavers - 1200hp unit with resistant skin, and 2 different critical strike abilities, one is a normal 20% to do 2x the damage, the other is like 5% to do 10x the damage (this unit is super op against all non-hero ground units)

Gray Guards - basically footsman with 650hp that can attack air units as well

Stormguard - Basically a tank unit, don't remember much about it

Also colonel Aster designed flying buildings, and other stuff that would've gotten in your way . . . would of been a crazy mission

 

[ArchDuke]

I think he stopped because it would keep crashing not because he got lazy or carried away or anything

 

[Lord Aiden]

Still sucks, it would've been a really good map to play

 

[Rem]

What about helping with the balancing ?

 

[Lord Aiden]

imho the unit is well balanced, just give it like 950 or so hp