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Patch 1.30.2 PTR Update

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by TriggerHappy, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. EredarArbeiterYU

    EredarArbeiterYU

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    Are you serious? Well by that logic Company of Heroes 2 would have never happened cuz we had CoH1 (with all it's mod scene that is far superior then the modding capabilities in CoH2), or all the Battlefield tittles (I will skip mentioning CoD cuz those are unique shit lol) or all the Total War titles or Dawn of War 2 etc...

    I think you simply lack the imagination and vision to see what a potential Warcraft IV could bring new or simply better to the table.

    And you mention CS:GO which is a one of few sequels to original Counter Strike lol, while League of Legends and DotA 2 are literately sequels (not even sequels, more like standalone remasters) to the already existing DotA from Warcraft 3 :D No one ever said "Yo why bother making CS/LoL/DotA2 when people already got the current game to play? :O".

    Just as Blizzard made a big leap from Wc2 to Wc3, I am sure they could make a big leap from Wc3 to Wc4. Not to mention the MONEYYYYY they would make from the first RTS game in the Warcraft universe since 2003!!

    2nd reason is story? Lol that is not an obstacle at all! Just as they made the movie Warcraft and adjusted the story to fit the movie, they can sure as fuck adjust the story to fit an RTS game :p

    1st reason is also lolz since Blizzard doesn't care about an "eternal game", eternal games don't make MONEYYYY, but new products do. :]


    Imagine if Bethesda said "Oh well some fans are making a mod about Hammerfell, guess we shouldn't make TES6 based in Hammerfell since they got it covered. :c"
     
  2. Kacpa2

    Kacpa2

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    Yes but it IS the final one atleast from Valve. Now its going to be expanded forever unless game dies, which also means no sequel anyway. Also you twist it with not too good analogy. Its not like with CoH games, plus their modding scenes are also marginal, its not even compareable. Moba side of it is covered by HoTS, whatever else is shown to have failed in Starcraft 2 which also sold rather poorly in comparison to other games. Which is another reason. Battlefield games dont have a MMO game that stolen the story canon from it and twisted it and bloated to such degree that original game lost any continouity in sea of retcons and new story elements, not to mention several times when there were nostalgia baiting moments and rehashes of Roc, TFT and elements of it. TBC, Wotlk, WoD and Legion all did that, BFA does that again but with Vanilla WoW as a theme, premise and setup ofcourse with its own story bits and other alterations but it calls back to Vanilla clearly. Aside of all that Battlefield doesnt have ANY modding scene cuz of how EA is openly hostile to modders, last games that had it were all on old engine, we have tools for frostbite now but its still getting out nothing, games are inclosed and newer ones dont even have community server support.

    Also there is no big leap to be had. Selecting more than 12 units isnt a thing that matters.....nor anything else....there is seriously nothing that wc4 could bring. TFT has naval combat and you have TOUSANDs of altered melee maps that have more races and tactics and their new balance.

    It wont earn as much as you would think it would(wow isnt as strong as it used to.... you think that RTS would do more? Casual playerbase will just go for heroes of the storm. Modding capability? Look at Starcraft 2, its too convoluted for people to get in without very specific almost ground up game dev mindset which ultimately turned Sc2's arcade into wasteland with 5 maps played over and over from which all are pretty much recreations of wc3 maps. There is almost no content made by community for it, sc2mapster and Sc2 assets side of hive have very few models and skins in comparison to WC3. Especially since its completely incompatibile both technologicly with old assets nor artisticly cuz of Sc2's artstyle.

    Community made assets and maps are prime reason to why there cant be Wc4 on several levels, cuz of incompatibilty, abandonment of them by any potential new fanbase, very bleak chances of any transfers of them using new editor(which for 100% would be just galaxy editor). They fill in whatever Wc4 could attempt to give, new races, spells or tactics......everything literally EVERYTHING it could give was and is done by US for WC3. Stracraft 1 got a remaster cuz it looked terribly on high res monitors and had issues on new systems and aside of all that was painfully archaic in many ways which wc3 perfected(and which were downported to it together with BNET ui). It had low quality audio that had lots of issues(only music was of good quality) and on top of that it has 2 sprite based visuals which just are bound to look terrible once resolution gets high. And it comes from times when 800x600 was "high" definition.(highest being 1024x768 in 4:3). Warcraft 3 has perfectly high quality audio and sound effects, full 3D graphics that dont suffer from issues sprites did suffer from. Only issue it really has are some bugs with lighting(which causes "blackout bug" on bigger maps cuz of limitation of light sources per tile) and to small extend blockiness of some models(which i will remedy with my remakes in coming months).

    WC4 isnt needed and cant be released. What we may need are remasters of older games like Diablo, Warcraft 1 and 2 and so on. These suffer from same and even more issues than Sc1, with even worse audio quality, archaic and painful controls and other issues. Wc3 has none of these problems.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  3. mori

    mori

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    Now that the custom hosting has been shut down, I've been seeing something even more disturbing.

    There's literal, purposeful bot spam in the game list.

    [​IMG]

    These are all, quite literally, the same lobby, hosted on the same bot. 5 Footmen Frenzy lobbies (all linked to the same bot), just on this page (there's more above and below), same with Hero Push.

    I don't know if this is how it was before this whole debaucle, but aren't these just purposefully trying to destroy the game list? This is just mean. Especially if this is some kind of form of "retaliation" or "protest", I am severely disappointed. Just let the people play the fucking game without bots, if that is what you wanted to show. Don't make this matter worse. This is just giving Blizzard even more reason to remove bot hosting.

    I've also noticed some "Fake" lobbies out there. They just hang your game if you try to join, and you have to restart WC3 to get out of it. What the fuck, people? Why is everyone being so petty about this? It's disgusting.

    EDIT: More evidence. Website is courtesy of TriggerHappy.
    chrome_2018-09-30_02-03-58.png
    chrome_2018-09-30_02-04-09.png
    chrome_2018-09-30_02-04-18.png
    chrome_2018-09-30_02-04-58.png
    What the actual hell? Does anyone even seriously think this is helping anyone?
     
  4. Civiliznations

    Civiliznations

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    Though this makes me laugh, I will explain it to you regardless. Currently hosting requires port forwading. These 'fake lobbies' are people trying to host but not knowing they have to port forward/didn't port forward properly. This was the reality of the game before bots came along. (And yes, I know this is one of the ways they have improved hosting in this patch. But the system is still lacking crucial features, see my previous posts)

    As for the autohosts, the page is refreshing, and because there is so few games up since we took all the other hosts down, they are appearing again. It's not a retaliation or protest, there are just so little bots online that they are filling the list.
     
  5. mori

    mori

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    The "fake lobby" is quite literally that - a fake lobby, on a bot. STUPID_BOT - [FAKE] ...

    For the lobby spam. How come this is only happening on these 3 bots? All other bots are well-behaved, they each only post a single lobby to the game list. You can check on TH's website. 8 lobbies from the same bot? And the huge, 4-digit number next to it? Give me a break, it's clearly reposting the game like every other minute, at the very least. Even if this isn't a protest, this is clearly abuse of the WC3 protocol.
     
  6. h3rmit

    h3rmit

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    This thing has existed for a long time, but only now it is visible.

    You are wrong, these communities do not participate in any protest, this is their normal way of hosting games. They have disagreed with the protest and continued hosting games the same way they used to.

    I agree that this is disgusting and it shows an example of how hostbots can be abused, as well as the great lack of filtering and search options in the custom games list.
     
  7. mori

    mori

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    Thanks for elaborating. I'll re-iterate on my previous post that this is clear and blatant abuse of the way the WC3 Game Protocol works and should not be allowed. If anything, it just gives Blizzard more reasons to ban host bots.
     
  8. Civiliznations

    Civiliznations

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    Or they could just fix the terrible refresh/games list system that produced this in the first place.
     
  9. TriggerHappy

    TriggerHappy

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    Those bots have been abusing the custom game list long before the PTR went live.
     
  10. Jouven

    Jouven

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    I'm not sorry to keep going, but if gproxy worked... well... it had a filter feature by game name... =) (I didn't mention it earlier because I never use this feature, since I only play one map with a fixed gn)
    I'm surprised¿ none mentioned the mapcfg and the HCL system, those will be lost too, this will mess some maps that have "modes" that can't be set in-game
    And after doing a fast check, the advanced options aren't remembered... =S

    By the way check the EULA (LAST REVISED June 1, 2018), basically any third party software is a no-no
    Blizzard End User License Agreement Blizzard Legal
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  11. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    What if someone would create proper filters system by name, or even by user's local map, especially since each bot directly says WHAT THE HELL IT JUST HOSTED in game name? Suuure, ghost bots are the problem
     
  12. kantarion

    kantarion

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    This is exactly what will happen if you ban bots, if you only allow private individual hosts custom games. You will have many individuals creating same custom game in wc3 that is kinda not alive as we all want to be, where you cant collect so much players in a normal period of time.Wait time is huge,people usually cant wait for 20-40 min and then cancel. Then the process repeats . What you showed is either some kind of revenge of bot services to show you what hostings by individuals effect will produce,or either is faked by you. Its hard to tell. This never happen before on same bot simultaniosly ,NEVER. When 1 game has started,bot creates another 1, never 5 games in same time .
     
  13. Lord_Earthfire

    Lord_Earthfire

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    This argument is on so many positions wrong.
    Hostbots created most of the lobby times for other games in the first place by having unmodderated hosts just running automatically. Players that saw the playercount decrease and other playing on Garena at the time hostbots emerged more or less agreed that host bots are what caused this issues in the first place, pushing games hosted by real people out of the game list. Hostbots are among the main reason why the playernumbers become that low and now people complain that these get the axe! I see the current developement a good riddance. Hosting worked before without bots, only bottlenecked by port forwarding, and with the ability to everyone to host games i still believe this will be the case.

    What you see in the screenshots is why hostbots became so common. They undermined every honest attempt to host yourself.

    What blizzard needs to do now is put the nail in the coffin of the bots: a dedicated game search with high functionality. a ban for all bots and included QOL changes to make bots completely obsolete.

    I really really hope that this is only the beginning of changes. And what i want to see it proper communication about that by Blizzard.
     
  14. Rui

    Rui

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    For me, game list pollution is only a problem when browsing. Which I rarely do. I log in WC3 only when there's some game in the MakeMeHost list that I want to play. Or when I was already logged in and sitting in some channel, like one of the BFME clans, waiting for the bot to host a new game and announce it in the channel. In these cases, I know the lobby name, and I just type it directly.

    Situations like the one @Sir Moriarty is illustrating are easily fixed by having some vigilance: every other day, make an inspection on the game lists and ban those wTc and EFL hostbots and any others that are purposely abusing. Yes, it takes some manual labor. Why is everyone against it nowadays? Is it better to ban an otherwise excellent feature (and killing awesome maps like @Zymoran's "Warlock" in the process, which heavily depend on fair latency)?
     
  15. opium911

    opium911

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    I don't understand this negative parade against hosting bots in the modding community.
    It seems like a personal vendetta against host bots without even having tried them.

    On Blizzard's forums, you can see 80% of people are in favor of the use of a good reliable hosting bot.
    Not all hosting bots are good, I agree with you.

    Have you guys every used a good hosting bot service?
    Have you ever played on a good hosting bot service such as "Ent"?
    I doubt anyone in their right mind would be against it.

    There should be a way to have both hosting bots and private hosted games co-exist.
    The user would have a way to filter "Host Bot" games out of the list if they bother you so much.

    If it's all about "YAY! I can finally host!", I guarantee you even if you host one of your games and people are getting sub-par latency in that game, who is going to stay in your game? The game will be unplayable.

    I take it on my self, I play Dota regularly on the hosting bot "Ent".
    This game requires instant reaction speed based on its dynamics.
    You know what is my latency when I play on this bot? 11ms! = 1/10th of a second.

    Based on "Sir Moriarty" tests, yes the games are still hosted on the host's computer and therefore we do get affected by the quality of the host's internet connection.
    So I don't understand how some of you guys agree to go back to the stone age where we would be getting latency ranging between 60ms to 700ms ; 700ms = 7 seconds to see the reaction of your mouse click on the screen.

    I can go and on about it but Blizzard is so far behind in terms of what they can offer to the community compared to the free service we are getting from a good reliable auto host bot.

    Let's not talk about game moderation that will never be done by Blizzard.
    Can Blizzard guarantee human volunteers to check on game replays to spot game offenders such as what they do in a good reliable hosting bot community? No.
     
  16. Lord_Earthfire

    Lord_Earthfire

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    Fallacy ad homine. I honestly believe most have used them and use them, either because their provider shut the doors at IPV4, which makes hosting with port forwarding impossible (like in my case). Is it probably that many mappers have a good amount of years on their back and see the flood of hosted games noone joins that are polluting the list.

    Heck, if we remove the auto hosted "[ENT]Footmen Frenzy #67" and "[CCS] Custom heroes survival" lobbies and would use only on demand hosted games like MMH does, there wouldn't be this anger against host bots that are drowing any opportunity for fringe maps or beta test to even show up in the game list.

    But you cannit guarantee thus without banning bots outrught, so there we have it.

    I would call the opposite. Neither a dev nor someone who has the ability to host at will would want third party sites dominating everything. We had it because we needed to. These reasons are gone

    Valve did it with CS: GO, for example. This is completely possible. But, on the other hand, the solution is more to enhance the internal anti-cheat detection, honestly.

    Let me tell you, that was the golden age of wc3, where you had to make your own lobbies. You used gproxy, autorefresher and/or your own banlists to manage your lobbies. This were the times fringe maps found players, simply because the player/lobby ratio is lower (until hostbots came, they were a good reason for the end of that...).
    And the latency issue is simply BS. Having played WC3 for years, over garena, battlenet or other, this issue was very low expressed. Heck, just add a latancy counter on lobbies (garena had that before they thrown wc3 games out of their portfolio) amd this issue will be non-existent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  17. A Void

    A Void

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    I'm glad that hosting bots are going to be removed, permanently. I miss the old days where people actually hosted their own maps, the lobby was full of life... of course there were issues with port forwarding but that's going to get fixed too.

    Relying on third party websites to host your own map is absurd but it was necessary.


    We have all waited for Battle.Net 2.0 and it's one step closer. Can't wait! =)
     
  18. mori

    mori

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    I know I personally won't miss ENT or MMH all that much, even though I used them on a daily basis.

    Yes, things like !kick or !swap or !mute were nice, but ultimately, they can (and should) be re-implemented natively in the client.

    If Blizzard addresses the issues that I pointed out previously in this thread (latency, lack of utility commands), then the only remaining argument for bots will be competitive (and general) auto-hosting, which has been a topic of high contention over the years. Another one is global ban lists, which is... eh at best. It's not hard to circumvent an account or IP ban nowadays.

    Let's look at this from another perspective, however. Someone here pointed out that any kinds of third-party tool are strictly forbidden by the Blizzard EULA. Whether you like it or not, Blizzard can ban your CD Keys for using any external tools - GProxy, GHost, etc. etc. It is just a matter of them not excercising their right to do so yet, because these things were keeping the game alive, if barely.

    Now that they are updating the game, why would they continue to allow third-party tools? Like I've stated previously, this is likely a decision not entirely made by the Classic team alone, as these things usually go. I work in an enterprise setting. I know how these things usually get done. You are told by some high manager to do this thing, and you have to do it, even if you think it is inane. Furthermore, it is very unlikely for them to contradict their own EULA, as it could possibly set a dangerous precedent for the future.

    Only other route I can think of, is official, dedicated, host bot software that is supported and developed by Blizzard and behaves nicely in the game. However, that is highly unlikely, because it would require additional development time. They may not be able to just use GHost++ or whatever due to licesing issues as well.

    Perhaps, a long-term solution to bot hosting can be found as well, and could be allowed in the future, but that would require some kind of open API specifically for bot games, with restrictions built in. In their current form, host bots just abuse the game protocol too much, and tie Blizzard's hands behind their back when it comes to updating the protocol.
     
  19. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    Abuse the game? Thats a strange way to say "keeping it alive"
    Without ghost bots there would be valley of death shortly after 2010+. Ignorant plebs never understand.
    Make a note that those who actually kept the community, the people from going into other games, are FOR bots. And those who did nothing but forum wars or small niche maps with 10 players/month are against bots.
     
  20. YourArthas

    YourArthas

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    Well, I mean there is no point in defending Blizzard's fault they won't pay you for it, that bot removal move and turning the system to sc2's(kinda) was just a bad move.