[ORPG] Starcraft Universe

[Mille25]

i will implement the 64 char system tomorrow to reduce savecode length, but im still not sure how much space i will be able to win with it. im quite sure it wont be nearly enaugh.

even if i can reduce the length by 50% i could only load about ~6 characters, and there is not even an inventory system in it yet, which might cost a lot of space, too.

i got also some suggestions not to save quests and other things, but for me its no option. i want everything saved or nothing.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

i will implement the 64 char system tomorrow to reduce savecode length, but im still not sure how much space i will be able to win with it. im quite sure it wont be nearly enaugh.

even if i can reduce the length by 50% i could only load about ~6 characters, and there is not even an inventory system in it yet, which might cost a lot of space, too.

i got also some suggestions not to save quests and other things, but for me its no option. i want everything saved or nothing.

Simply save everything you need into a single string per character. As strings can have a length of 255 chars, I see no problem with that. If one string isnt enough, go with 2 per character. That allows you to still load 5 characters per player.

Ah, before I forget it: Don't use an exponent system. This would consume too much processing power for periodic saving in the background. Simply store the integer values directly into the string by using Str2Int.
Lets say you want to save level 55 and 4333 xp (with a max value of 999999 xp), such as 1337 (with a max of 999999) gold:
Store this to your bank: 55004333001337
I think you get the idea. However, you should encrypt it a little so it isnt as easy to edit.

 

[mrzwach]

Uhh, you do realize that not using an exponent system would result in the savecodes being way longer than before? IE, rather than 90 possible values in each character, you would have 10.

 

[Mille25]

@zwiebel:

thats exactly what i do atm.

at the moment each char gets saved in a simple string and each int gets converted into a string with length X.
so it looks e.g. like this: 00500000652000010000050...
after that i encrypt that string and save it.

the problem is, that the string gets to long. atm i get a length of about ~180 chars (even if i save each integer with really the minimum amount of chars possible), whats to much because you can load ~ 800 char for all values, all banks and all players together. so lets say i have 8 players and 5 charslots i would need to save a character into a string with length 800/8/5 = 25 chars. thats the deal.

if it would be that easy, id be done since weeks. the limit is so damn low that it seems to be impossible.

Thats how a saved char looks like atm (without 64 charsys):

2m12btvzex 4lzsjd6gf78s8ao0kiuz5xwe0b00ncnb2vc3xy4lkh8ap8f7ds8ao9uzerwqwer 00m1nb2vc3xy4lk5jh6gf7ds8ap9oiuztqwer 00m1nb2vc3xy4lk5jh6gf7ds8ap9oiuztqwer 00m1nb2vc3xy4lk5ra6gf7ds8ap9oi

with this savecode length i can load a maximum of 4 chars in mp. so atm its max 4 players with 1 charslot each
we will see how much chars i need for one hero with the 64 charsys.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Uhh, you do realize that not using an exponent system would result in the savecodes being way longer than before? IE, rather than 90 possible values in each character, you would have 10.

Yes, but the amount of processing time gets decreases dramatically, which is important if you consider the fact that creating a savestring in WC3 usually generated a 1 second lag. As he intends to have the save system automaticly backing up every x seconds, this would be a no-go in terms of performance.
However, it doesn't matter really, as:

the problem is, that the string gets to long. atm i get a length of about ~180 chars (even if i save each integer with really the minimum amount of chars possible), whats to much because you can load ~ 800 char for all values, all banks and all players together.

Errr what ...?! They even limited the STRING LENGTH in banks? Alright, forget what I said. Screw banks.
Simply continue developing your RPG with a nonworking saveload as placeholder and hope for blizzard to fix that issue.

 

[Blizard Of Oz]

This is the biggest damn shame I have witnessed all week, and I got the avatar game for wii for my birthday (it is just...awful, in every way possible). Anyway, This is sooooooooo sad, how could Blizzard do this? Such awesome potential in projects ALREADY being made before the game releases and they shit on it?

FOR SHAME BLIZZARD! AREN'T YOU TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF US?!?!?!? GAH BLARFENGARHF!!!!

Sorry, I'm just that pissed off that I have to write (for lack of a better word) garble to show you my level of anger.

Edit: Oh BTW. Your terrain and the overall outlook of the game and systems look so fantastic! I applaud your efforts to make a very cool rpg that looks professionally coordinated. Hopefully Blizzard gets off their ass and reinstates the requirements needed to continue your project. B.Net 2.0 is turning out to be a big disappointment. I hope very much that they take on the problems ASAP. Unfortunately they're low on time.

 

[Mille25]

ive implemented the 64 char system now and after some trouble its finally working.

however, i will take a break till the second beta phase begins, hoping for some editor improvements and bank changes.
after this it will go on with full power again and spell system will be released quickly i hope.

greez

 

[Mille25]

Update - 10.7.10

hey guys!

as you all know, phase 2 did start in the EU so i will continue developing.

the current plans:

- test bank files again, if there isnt anything changed, it doesnt look good for the project
- experimentating with unit scale to simulate a 512*512 map, if this doesnt run good it doesnt look good for the project either (more infos about this later, its in progress)
- experimentating with fog effects and skyboxes to create athmosphere

first impressions:

- edit boxes do still not work
- my entire custom ui is f*cked up, because blizzard did change the dialog size


first scale and fog experiments:

 

[mrzwach]

There is a tutorial for working edit boxes on SC2mapster, I haven't looked at it, but it might be worth a shot.

On a side note, they might have changed the dialog size system to actually use pixels. Will have to test that later.

 

[Mille25]

There is a tutorial for working edit boxes on SC2mapster, I haven't looked at it, but it might be worth a shot.

hehe yes, but i wont implement it since the "real" edit boxes will come later anyways (hopefully oO)

On a side note, they might have changed the dialog size system to actually use pixels. Will have to test that later.

yes, that might be possible. one thing i noticed is that it seems like a dialog with size x*x is now finally a square (bevore it was always wider than high)

my experiements with unit scaling run quite good.
its possible to scale all units down by 50% and reduce the movementspeed by 50% with a short trigger + buff. i was also able to scale down the terrain foliage and increase the density. i also have a quite good fog now.

two problems left:

- unit pathing is to big, and there seems to be no possibility to set collision size to 50% with a buff/trigger. it also seems to be impossible to turn off collision completly (like it was possible in WE)
- i cant get any skybox working in the game.

PS: bnet is finally up again in EU, but i cant publish anything, so the most important part (bank file test) has to wait again ~~

 

[mrzwach]

Try halving the radius and inner radius of units, that might help.

 

[Mille25]

Try halving the radius and inner radius of units, that might help.

yeah sure i could do that, but i want everything automized with triggers. it would be an unbelivable work to edit EVERY unit, and it would also turn out in alot of mistakes.
i dont really get why they removed the "enable/disable unit collsion" action that we had in wc3 ~~

 

[nathanmx]

Why not keep collision? IMO it adds a level of realism to the game that is rather refreshing. Walking through people is lame!

 

[Mille25]

Why not keep collision? IMO it adds a level of realism to the game that is rather refreshing. Walking through people is lame!

i would like to keep it, too, but there seems to be no possibility to do this with triggers. if anyone knows more feel free to tell me

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Why would you want to simulate a 512x512 map? 256x256 is enough, believe me.
It's one of the major beginning mistakes of any RPG creator out there to start with a map that is way to large for the amount of content they are able to create on their own.
Better split your map up into multiple maps instead of having a giant single map. This also allows you to use more than one tileset in your RPG. There's almost no advantage in having a giant map over multiple small ones.

 

[Mille25]

Why would you want to simulate a 512x512 map? 256x256 is enough, believe me.
It's one of the major beginning mistakes of any RPG creator out there to start with a map that is way to large for the amount of content they are able to create on their own.
Better split your map up into multiple maps instead of having a giant single map. This also allows you to use more than one tileset in your RPG. There's almost no advantage in having a giant map over multiple small ones.

i think every map has its own style, so every map needs different size.
i personally want large open areas, not a linear map, so i really want to get this 512*512 size.

but meh, first i still had no chance to test banks again (because in EU its impossible to publish since days) so i dont even know if the projekt will continue, secondly i have a lot of new concept ideas and there will be changing a lot if the map gets continued.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Alright; I just wanted to give you my advice from my personal experiences with RPG making. I also started with the thought of creating a huge area, non linear gameplay. But then it turned out that 480x480 was so enormously HUGE that, no matter how much effort I put into, I was never able to cover more than 25% of that area with actual content over the time span of almost 2 years of developement.
It's quality you should want to achieve, not quantity. And the coolest thing of SC2, the modularity, supports map splitting anyways, as you do not need to download the full content for every map again (all the models and stuff you need like music, etc. can all be stored externally, so that the actual mapfiles remain small).

 

[Mille25]

really had to laugh a bit when reading this:

Also, the size limit for synchronized .sc2banks on Battle.net is now 4000 bytes (it was way higher during phase 1). Found by WhiskeeGX.

on s2mapster. havent tested anything myself and cant confirm it.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

havent tested anything myself and cant confirm it.

Please check it out before dropping this promising project.

Then again, SC2mapster is a pretty reliable source of informations about mapping, so I think it is true.

Geez, what the hell is blizzard thinking? To me, SC2 modding is dead. Don't get me wrong: I will buy the game just for the awesome singleplayer campaign and to find out what happens to Jim Raynor after the events of Brood War, but well, with SW:TOR coming closer and closer, my interest in playing or creating SC2 funmaps becomes weaker and weaker every month.

 

[Mille25]

Please check it out before dropping this promising project.

if publishing comes up ever again, yes. xD

Then again, SC2mapster is a pretty reliable source of informations about mapping, so I think it is true.

yep, i also think so =/

Geez, what the hell is blizzard thinking? To me, SC2 modding is dead. Don't get me wrong: I will buy the game just for the awesome singleplayer campaign and to find out what happens to Jim Raynor after the events of Brood War, but well, with SW:TOR coming closer and closer, my interest in playing or creating SC2 funmaps becomes weaker and weaker every month.
/signed

greez

 

[xD.Schurke]

there is a spark of hope, an ingame texture (some kind of new poster) say on russian "beta bank. better then nothing" or something like this. So maybe they will be better in retail version ^^

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Retail is only 8 days ahead. Do you *really* believe they are going to change anything related to the game's code in those 8 days? The game has already been pressed and gone gold. And why should they decrease the bank limit in a beta patch just to raise it again in the retail version? That would make no sense in any way.
To make banks useful, they have to get rid of the limit at all - or at least raise it to a reasonable level of something like 64-128 kb. I don't really see a reason why banks should be limited anyways. It's not like a bank of 64 kb size would result in a lot of traffic when being synchronized.

 

[xD.Schurke]

I don't know, we'll see

 

[Mille25]

there is a spark of hope, an ingame texture (some kind of new poster) say on russian "beta bank. better then nothing" or something like this. So maybe they will be better in retail version ^^

source?

 

[xD.Schurke]

there we go: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/beta-information-sharing-center-648/new-ads-172511/

 

[Zwiebelchen]

there we go: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/beta-information-sharing-center-648/new-ads-172511/

Yeah, but seriously, Blizzard KNOWS that there are LOTS of mapmakers complaining about the banks. Don't you think blizzard would gain a little bit of popularity back for convincing those people that the banks are going to be extended on retail?
Why should they hide an obviously positive announcement like that instead of just giving us a blue?

 

[xD.Schurke]

they didn't release much feedback on editor issues at all

 

[Zwiebelchen]

they didn't release much feedback on editor issues at all

But they DID, for some odd reason, DECREASE the limit even more. Why should they do that some days before release if they are planning to extend the limit after retail? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[CloudMax]

But they DID, for some odd reason, DECREASE the limit even more. Why should they do that some days before release if they are planning to extend the limit after retail? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Maybe becouse.. MAP PUBLISHING IS FUCKT UP.
Do you play the european starcraft II?
If you do, then you should understand that the map publishing system is broken.
If not, then you should look things up before complaining.

The map publishing was online for like 2 days or something in europe, then they disabled everything becouse it was glitchy like shit.

If you can publish your map at all, be happy and dont complain.
I am seriously getting annoyed by how people can complain about things that is far much worse for others.

 

[Mille25]

what does map publishing have to do with the bank size limit? its a different problem. the map publishing is bugged or whatever, but banks are meant to be limited. i dont see the connection.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Maybe becouse.. MAP PUBLISHING IS FUCKT UP.
Do you play the european starcraft II?
If you do, then you should understand that the map publishing system is broken.
If not, then you should look things up before complaining.

The map publishing was online for like 2 days or something in europe, then they disabled everything becouse it was glitchy like shit.

If you can publish your map at all, be happy and dont complain.
I am seriously getting annoyed by how people can complain about things that is far much worse for others.

And how is that in any way related to the thing you quoted?

 

[tagg1080]

Well, dude?

This looked cool, any progress?

 

[Mille25]

Well, dude?

This looked cool, any progress?

yep. more infos here: http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/project-workplace/12827-starcraft-universe-reloaded/#p11

moved the main thread to mapster since it seems more active.

greez

 

[Mille25]

some demo of my item system

 

[xD.Schurke]

you use same texture for all windows, dont you?

 

[Mille25]

 

[Hodge-Podge]

OMFG! This is one insane map! I can't wait for it's release! the UI and style is just sick! one question though, do you attack by left clicking, or right clicking?

Anyways, keep up the AWSOME work like +rep x10^infinity for making this

 

[Lord-T-Rex]

Great, keep it going!!

 

[NoNBasH]

Holy mom!!!Great, man. this is a ORPG that i would play!!!
Nice Work !

 

[nil_]

I have a quick suggestion:
Maybe instead of making every race have the same character system, you could give each race a separate one.
For example, the most exotic race of the three, the zerg. Instead of playing as a zerg unit, maybe you could play as an infested terran bred by Kerrigan. Instead of attacking yourself, you are always accompanied by zerg creatures. Instead of talent points, you could use an evolution system, like when you reach level x, you can upgrade your zerglings to move faster.
For Protoss, maybe you could have this "Chain of command" system, where you start as a zealot and ultimately advance into a high templar.
Hope this helps