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Official WarCraft IV Discussion

Discussion in 'Warcraft Discussion' started by Dumblor, May 8, 2008.

  1. loktar

    loktar

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    This feels spot on for me. I feel like the sheer quantity of options and the endless march of better graphics and more expensive hardware has pretty much killed my enjoyment of gaming.
    I played C&C Generals, WC3, CoD1/2/4 for years on end in multiplayer, but that's not really possible anymore because the landscape changes so quickly. There's not much of a point to forming clans and playing semi-competitively anymore. The incentive to really invest into a game, let alone the hardware to run it, is gone for me.
    The same goes for single player games. Everything I've played over the years just seems like a rehash of the same old stuff, with some new gimmicks here and there and shinier visuals. The new gimmicks and mechanics aren't worth learning if the experience overall is pretty dull and the excitement fades quickly.

    I dunno, I feel like "these days" explanation is always a bit short sighted. It doesn't actually explain much and doesn't offer any insights or a way forward. And anyway, people have been saying similar things for thousands of years.
     
  2. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Ah, excuse me. Must be the evolution I cannot understand. That is why RTS has fallen out of favour because it is primitive.
    Indeed, games become more like movies and like with movies nowadays (your favourite word), games too get rebooted in one form or another.
     
  3. loktar

    loktar

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    That's not really what I meant. I just don't think there's anything new happening. I don't think it's a matter of people's mentality changing in a significant way (in this context), but rather that capitalism is doing what it has always done. The gaming industry has become extremely profitable, so companies produce as many games as possible, and make them as accessible as possible. If they find a formula that works, they stick to it. Every now and then they try to stand out by throwing out something 'different' and 'exciting'. And most people pick the low hanging fruit and then move on to the next one.
    None of that is anything new, it's just that games haven't been that profitable for very long compared to movies or music, for example. And yeah, it definitely stifles innovation and encourages superficial products.
     
  4. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Oops.
    [​IMG]

    It's not capitalism's fault. It's people's fault buying the garbage. Sure, computers were not that accessible back then but still in the US, Japan and most of Europe they were and still there was little to no such agenda being pushed down kids' throats because they're the first line in this affair.
    I'm very confident that if Blizzard would make great games as before they'd still be on top but they opted not to and went along with the other miserable corporation movements. RTS doesn't work anymore because game companies have shifted their attention to mass production and what they thought would be more profitable games as seen on other companies' success. And so, people have also been improperly educated to buy into this trash bin trend instead of daring for the good stuff.
    While capitalism might be the basis on which this happens, fact is that what's actually going on is induced greed. If everyone played the marketing game fairly, this thing would not have escalated the way it did since recent years.

    Supporting indies isn't viable because too few people do it. Instead they eagerly wait for the big Cs to release the next installment and would happily throw their money away on microtransactions while the indie developers die out.
     
  5. loktar

    loktar

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    No, but capitalism is the system we have, and this kind of market evolution is the logical result of that system, because the only immutable motive for a corporation is a profit motive, as you point out yourself:

    Yes, because people are informed on entertainment products almost entirely by marketing. The biggest companies have the biggest budget for marketing, so their products will be the most visible.

    Greed is just another way of saying maximizing profit, i.e. capitalism. "Fair" marketing is simply not the optimal strategy for maximizing profit.

    To be clear, I'm not expressing any judgement about capitalism here. It's just a general trend that lucrative markets tend to consolidate and centralize, maximizing efficient production and general marketability.
     
  6. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    warcapitalism.png
    That doesn't make it less greed. Maximizing profit=/=just making profit. So yeah, synonyms.
     
  7. SMBComix

    SMBComix

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    Honestly, I don't want any new games from Blizzard until they drop their online DRM scheme and start producing *good* games again. Dropping the ball on Warcraft 3 Reforged like they did is just... ugh.
     
  8. OutsiderXE

    OutsiderXE

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    Yes, and I would also not trust them with WC4 and neither am I looking forward to D4. Just waiting for Wolcen to get fixed.
     
  9. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    I don't think that's entirely true. Nowadays gaming isn't what it used to be, due to it going mainstream. If you look at it from a percentage perspective, yeah, lot of classic genres are economically unviable, or outright dead.

    However, if you discard the percentages and go back to the raw numbers, the interest is still there. The original communities are still around, dormant, just waiting for a reason to come back. Some of the really successful remasters/remakes from these last years prove it to be true.

    Gaming has been a shitshow since a few years ago, and most of the original videogame audience has moved away, sticking to old games, moving to indies, or getting new hobbies altogether. These disenfranchised players crave for the good old days, and they will rush back the moment someone takes the first step.

    You can't revive the RTS genre by going mainstream. You have to stay loyal to the core values of the genre, and then build up from there. If you try to please both audiences at once, you will fail spectacularly. The key is to keep the classic formula, with some quality of life features here and there, and the game will grow up from there. Just like videogames used to work in the past.

    Warcraft 4 won't happen in many years, and when it does, it won't look like an RTS, or it will be a bad copy of its spiritual successor, which is bound to be released some day.

    I wouldn't mind talking RTS game design though, but maybe we should open another thread.
     
  10. OutsiderXE

    OutsiderXE

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    The one "big" idea I have for WC4 is, instead of following multiple heroes across multiple campaigns, you have one big campaign with your own custom hero. Not like SC2, but like SpellForce 3 (or Mass Effect). You have some long-term customization for your hero and play with the races you ally with.

    Secondly, yes, I would actually continue with the WoW canon, to keep it all in line. E.g. WC4 plays after Shadowlands. If another WoW addon is released it will play after WC4 or its addon(s), depending on when they are released. Maybe including some overlapping. Think of it like the Marvel movies. They mix a lot, but it mostly depends on which heroes' perspective you follow. You don't necessarily need to watch all of the movies to know what's going on.
    (I don't really like time-travel when it used to reset stuff - only when it's its own contained plot-device, like Terminator or Back to the Future).
     
  11. Venombite

    Venombite

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    To everyone hoping for Warcraft IV, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

    After Reforged fiasco and BfA failure, the best thing we can hope for is Warcraft Immortal.

    Don't you guys have phones?
     
  12. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    We don't need Warcraft IV anymore. We need new/expanding Warcraft III natives and game stability.
     
  13. Ether

    Ether

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    The last good game I knew was Warcraft III and I think that is the last game of good old Blizzard.

    Reforged, seems to be unexistent and its a dish served cold to the fans.

    Warcraft IV is as far as Half Life 3 from ever happening.
     
  14. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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  15. OutsiderXE

    OutsiderXE

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    HL3 doesn't feel that far away actually^^ Only problem is, Valve might try to make it VR... And if they don't, they will probably look into other creative ideas, which might delay it forever...
     
  16. Ether

    Ether

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  17. loktar

    loktar

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    Sucks that it's VR only, I have no interest in VR :(
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Indeed. What kind of game were they trying to make anyways?
     
  19. loktar

    loktar

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    lol xD
     
  20. Ardenaso

    Ardenaso

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    Bump. Since Battle for Azeroth has been confirmed to be the canon Fourth War, I think Warcraft IV would take place in BFA timeline

    But yeah I ain't getting any hope for it