Northrend Bound v1.85

[Lil Emo Prince]

Don't forget torches, too.
I agree, the passive stealth detection isn't necessary on heroes anymore. I had it in earlier test versions because I thought it would be neat.
I've fixed quarries, removed hero stealth detection, adjusted hero stats, buffed armor for agility and intelligence gear, and fixed other misc. bugs reported.

I'll make note of it, I know what you mean. I can put that in later with the town-conquering systems. Feel free to remind me of it if I forget!


I apologize for the rapid updates over the past few days.
I just wanted everything for AI and multiplayer to be bug-free before I start work on bosses.
Next update will probably be in a couple (2 - 3) of weeks. I do not want "tank and spank" bosses. Them be boring.

It's actually great to have updates quite often because most bugs are fixed immediately. Btw there's a bug in reputation in 1.25 idk what causes it.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Oh and you get a +12 discount when you are hiring thugs with the silver tongue achievement

 

[Wark]

The discount on thugs is from an older version, when they costed 50 gold.
I think I know the reputation problem. Making a quick fix... delete that last version. Nobody saw that.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Is it the one where (as bandit) the villagers show up as neutral?

Human peasants can't build gates, fences or lampposts: they go up to the outline and then just stop.

There should be a list somewhere of every item and how to get it, I only just found out how to get a bandana.

Blacksmiths should have six slots so as to make multiple steel ingots. And/or let quarries make ingots.

Sheep can be bribed, giving bandits a limited livestock ability. Personally, I think you should keep it (or have a similar mechanic for bandits for cattle-rusting).

Item requirements don't take stat boosts into account: I had an Archmage with 12(+5) Int unable to take a weapon with an Int 15 requirement.

Items can't be sold directly to the backpack (apparently it's a building).

Fishing boats sometimes don't fish when told to. Is right-clicking the fishing spot needed?

Automated pickup interrupts Patrolling (both actual patrolling and following a unit).

Pack horses can't reforge items or trade gold/lumber.

I'm not sure what causes it, but I occasionally see my reputation taking a hit, when (as far as I know) I'm not doing anything to cause it (attacking villagers, using spy skills).

Quest givers should check all inventories in range instead of just the starting hero's.

Maybe make seeds and crops use different icons.

Can you put in a way to display the "true" stats given by Agi, Str, Int (movespeed, evasion, regen...)?

Will there be a mechanic for bandits where you need bad reputation for certain units or upgrades?

Can you put an option to start in different towns?

 

[Leongstern]

where my wife?

 

[Wark]

where my wife?

No wives in this! But, you can get a second hero at an altar or through the goblin laboratory.

Human peasants can't build gates, fences or lampposts: they go up to the outline and then just stop.

I have never had this happen, and recently tested it. What was going on exactly?

Items can't be sold directly to the backpack (apparently it's a building). Sheep can be bribed, giving bandits a limited livestock ability. Personally, I think you should keep it (or have a similar mechanic for bandits for cattle-rusting).

Intentional.

Automated pickup interrupts Patrolling (both actual patrolling and following a unit). Pack horses can't reforge items or trade gold/lumber.

Also intentional, that's how it works. And, it'd be weird if a pack horse could trade and craft things by itself. It's just a horse!

Quest givers should check all inventories in range instead of just the starting hero's.

Well, for the quests available now and because of how quests work, they are repeatable and global. Meaning, anyone can start it and anyone can finish it. Everyone has access to it, and if they want the reward, they need the required items on 1 hero.

There should be a list somewhere of every item and how to get it, I only just found out how to get a bandana.

I do believe Insanity made a spreadsheet. Most of it is up for discovery, but if you really want a reference: Northrend Bound Spreadsheet

Fishing boats sometimes don't fish when told to. Is right-clicking the fishing spot needed?

Nope. Just put the fishing boat next to the fishing spot. It fishes once every 10 seconds automatically. If you want it to fish more often, you got to micro it. It's for balance purposes.

Item requirements don't take stat boosts into account: I had an Archmage with 12(+5) Int unable to take a weapon with an Int 15 requirement.
Can you put in a way to display the "true" stats given by Agi, Str, Int (movespeed, evasion, regen...)?

Well, when you hover the mouse over that "+" in the hero stats, it lets you know. Attribute bonuses do contribute to things like crit, evasion, and spell resistance. For example, 20 +10 Agility means you have a 30% chance to crit with 30% chance to evade, and +30 base movement speed.

For stats, I think I will change it so that requirements can be met by stat bonuses, not just base stats.
I think I have a way to detect your current attributes then drop items you don't meet requirements for.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Horse: As in, having forgeable items in the inventory and clicking Commission a reforge doesn't work.

 

[Insanity_AI]

Horse: As in, having forgeable items in the inventory and clicking Commission a reforge doesn't work.

I believe that's intentional. A horse cannot commission people to do things for it.
For example: A horse can't go into a bar and ask for a beer... or talk to people for that matter.

 

[hypsandar]

Game sometimes randomly crashes with an unknown error. Maybe because of too many units on the map?

 

[Wark]

Was it while assaulting an AI base?
If it was, I finally figured that out. Apparently, one of the AI's buildings didn't have "buildable" terrain set in the object editor.
Next patch will get rid of that crash.

 

[cleavinghammer]

^^^ But it can sell and buy items? All I'm saying is that there should be a unit that can use merchandise powerups (crafting, gold/lumber exchange) so the hero can be elsewhere, it doesn't have to be the horse.

 

[Wark]

All I'm saying is that there should be a unit that can use merchandise powerups (crafting, gold/lumber exchange) so the hero can be elsewhere, it doesn't have to be the horse.

Ah yea, there is. Basically any given unit with an inventory can do that except the horse.
I think even the lowly Thug can purchase lumber and powerups.
In fact, all units can use consumables except those counting as "storage" like boats, pack horses and buildings.

 

[cleavinghammer]

So they can. However, they can't get items reforged since they drop them instantly.

 

[Wark]

True, but that's what the Blacksmith (or Crypt if undead) is for.
Reforging at a town is more like an option for those that want to focus more on their heroes.
Hmm. I can look into it. The packhorse's function is purely item management.

See, the problem with items is that if I make packhorses "able to use items,"
that means they can now also pop bombs and potions.
I also don't want units running around with things like the Battle Standard or Scourge Chime items.
That's meant to be for heroes, and if units could use accessories with weapons, eh.
That might cause some problems.

EDIT:
On second thought, it may be funny as hell watching a pack horse with Mithril Armor carrying a Battle Standard into battle.

 

[cleavinghammer]

As I recall, the original FOTN actually allowed and encouraged giving units weapons and armor to make them more effective (for example, giving hunting gear to a unit caused animals to drop hide if a hunter killed it). No reason why it couldn't work here.

For stat powerups, isn't there a way to remove the powerup nature (to prevent crashes)?

If not, maybe something like a separate building for reforges that works like a neutral smith: give him the items, he reforges them, and drops the new item.

 

[Wark]

For stat powerups, isn't there a way to remove the powerup nature (to prevent crashes)?

I could use a dummy item to assign stat boosts when a hero picks one up.
However, I won't be adding permanent stat bonuses because that'll make things like Agility way too overpowered after a certain point.

Yea, FotN used a different system to upgrade units. I decided researching would be a better option since I have a system where weapons and armor use stat requirements.
I could possibly make "unit only" armor or weapons in the future.
I wanted units in this game to just be able to use consumables, since that makes sense, you know?
Having a rifleman with a pint on his belt, or a necromancer with a spare mana pot.

EDIT:
I'll have to think about the neutral smith. Right now, I guess the Smuggler's Den counts as neutral, but it doesn't take your items.
That could possibly lead to like a communal storage place. In fact, I think I can give the Smuggler's Den the Blacksmith's reforge, and then add some triggers . . .

 

[fish fish fish fish]

You could make an inventory system where items would be stored as text, by adding a "check inventory" and "deposit/take" ability or something similar to every unit meant to carry items. Instead of having inventory restrictions there would be weight restrictions or something similar making it much more realistic. A building like a warehouse could distribute items so that every building within its reach would be able to access its items, and packhorses could sell items with a sell ability when close enough to a market. This could save alot of time when crafting with the blacksmith and make it possible for "iron/steel/mithril upgrade" to make sense by using actual iron/steel/mithril for the upgrade. What do you think?

 

[Wark]

What do you think?

I think it is extremely complicated to do that in a Warcraft 3 engine. Possible, but complicated.
That would be something I'd reserve for a stand-alone game.

 

[fish fish fish fish]

That would be something I'd reserve for a stand-alone game.

Ok, but are you planning on making something happen after a victory has been achieved? Right now it seems kind of dull to just have the game end.

 

[Wark]

are you planning on making something happen after a victory has been achieved

I have no plans for that yet and haven't thought of it. My priority now is to make interesting boss fights.
I mean, I could create some kind of cinematic possibly?
Different endings, perhaps? Depending on the "win" condition.

There's a lot that can still be added, and it's open to discussion.

 

[sunabokori]

Man,you have my gratitude for what you have done so far with your map,it is already much enjoyable even in single player,that's something in my view that make your map more valuable compared to others although excellent mapmaker but too lazy to implement Ai in their work

 

[Wark]

Thank you Sunabokori, I appreciate that!

 

[cleavinghammer]

Zombie corpses can't be used for skeletons.
Do zombies have reincarnation? I keep killing them but only occasionally get money.
Accidentally targeted a guard with an ability and he started attacking me. However, using Talk made him stop. If that was intentional, awesome.

 

[Wark]

Yea, zombies count as summoned units and have reincarnation. You'll have to kill them twice to get that bounty. I've also been thinking about making some kind of "blood moon" event with moon phases or something, where there are ALOT more zombies spawning for one night.

As for guards, yes. That is completely intentional. Of course they'll continue to beat your head in if you're "hated," though.

 

[cleavinghammer]

The blood moon could be one of the shrine curses, with zombies going to every town and player base all night instead of just the graveyard (maybe not huge amounts, the rate used by the graveyard seems good).

Will there be an event concerning the queen in the castle, or is that an extra dungeon?


Using steal from market buildings should steal an appropriate item (food, weapon, gear etc.). Right now it can be used on those buildings but you don't get anything out of it.
Do dishonorable spells check if you use them on bandits or roaming dead and not damage rep?

 

[Wark]

Do dishonorable spells check if you use them on bandits and not damage rep?

Well, no, they don't. Think of it like some form of morality system by the Townsfolk. To them, stealing's stealing. Murder's murder.

Steal does work specifically on player buildings (to steal items from blacksmiths or quarries) or town halls (tents, inns, keeps) to steal gold from the player.

Will there be an event concerning the queen in the castle, or is that an extra dungeon?

Let's just say the Herald will call the coming of the queen. She can't keep herself locked up forever!

 

[cleavinghammer]

Yeah, but stealing from the bandits and monsters ruining their lives...

Buying boar hide doesn't give the Silver Tongue discount.
Spider eggsacs sound like burning buildings when damaged.

 

[Ardenaso]

There should be another trade ship. It takes too long to wait for that one.

 

[fish fish fish fish]

Buying boar hide doesn't give the Silver Tongue discount.

Hops also don't give discounts, and getting the "silver tongue" achievement takes awhile.
But you could always refine the boar hide into leather at a blacksmith, so it might be intentional.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I don't think so, it works when buying deer hide.

 

[fish fish fish fish]

I don't think so, it works when buying deer hide.

Wait, did i just say you could refine it, even though it doesn't discount on purchase?, i'm an idiot.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Bandits should have a dedicated item building, the Thieves' Guild can't buy or sell when producing units. And they could use a source of lesser items like leather and wool.

An idea I had: A quest related to the bosses, where your starting race is able to recruit a special unit once the boss is beaten. For example, Elves purify the forest and can hire fairies, Dwarves clear out the mines and hire kobolds, Undead put the dead sailors to rest and raise some different skeletons, etc.

 

[Wark]

Yea, I know the Thieves' Guild can't buy or sell items while training something. There's no way around that. Same goes for the Hideouts. Wool and leather is definitely more difficult to obtain as a Bandit: by finding wild sheep and hunting, or by sneaking into town to purchase from the markets. When you go bandit, think of it as hard mode with early game pay-offs and a greater focus on heroes.

I could easily make unlockable mercenary units at the Inn for completing specific quests. I'll have to think about what Humans and Orcs should get first before that's implemented.

However, I would like to test how balanced bosses are first after this next update.
And I mean - real bosses. Not those weak placeholders.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Yeah, but you could put an anti-discount for bandit players for their own item shop.

Will three heroes and units in dungeons be possible in future versions?

 

[Ardenaso]

Regarding zombies, they should be in "Can't raise, does not decay" to prevent useless corpses

 

[cleavinghammer]

Emergency revive doesn't work, my tent got killed by a wolf then my hero got killed by a vampire, with no revive anywhere.
Battleship has castle or bastion as requirements, but can be built by bandits.

Bag autopickup needs a longer range, it won't try to grab items in manual pickup range.

 

[Wark]

Emergency revive doesn't work, my tent got killed by a wolf then my hero got killed by a vampire, with no revive anywhere

Yea, I know about this. I've got a fix for it when I finish the next version.
Sure, I can increase bag pick-up range a little. Makes sense.

Will three heroes and units in dungeons be possible in future versions?

Well, I did intend on dungeons to be more co-op oriented. For now, in single player, I'm keeping it as is with the racial heroes and Tinker.
Summoned units can enter dungeons.

Regarding zombies, they should be in "Can't raise, does not decay" to prevent useless corpses

That would mean they can't be used for raise dead, though they are already raised dead technically.
I am not sure if zombies should be able to get raised.

 

[cleavinghammer]

No, as in having three heroes instead of choosing between either racial hero (Blademaster and Farseer, etc.). And with their own backpacks.

Zombies: I think you should, they still have skeletons inside them.

 

[Wark]

Backpacks for each individual hero would mean I'd need a completely different backpack system.
I am not sure if I can use the current system with the other heroes.
They're meant to be more of a side kick or a general, where your first hero's the leader.

I could add different game modes in the future for different game types, like allowing more heroes.
Other game modes I thought of:
- setting the gold amount for economic victory (or disabling it)
- hard mode (all corrupt forces, roaming dead and animals have increased health and damage)
- free racial mode, where the settlement can build up to any race and you can have multiple settlements

 

[cleavinghammer]

Free racial sounds more like a debug mode. Though multiple settlements (and wells) and racial mercenaries could be interesting once conquering towns is implemented.

Economic victory by gold seems a bit too easy to me, maybe extra requirements like trade agreements with other towns (that spawn new caravans that lead to your settlement and generate money at either end).

A mode where you start out controlling one of the towns, but are severely restrained in what you can do at first (no sending elite guards to stomp other players), and need to use diplomacy with players, bandits and other towns.

-

Sometimes a new miniboss message comes up, but the previous miniboss is still there. Maybe you could add a new area for them to spawn in.

Bandit War Camp's spiked barricades are too small.

There's a High Upkeep 2 beyond 110 food (up to 124, apparently) that isn't mentioned in the upkeep window.

The Minotaur can hit air units.

 

[Ehekakoatl515]

I'm stuck. Can't figure out how to continue building stuff. I've constructed my camp, well, and granary. Seems everything else requires a town hall but I can't figure out how to build or acquire one. Any help on how to continue is appreciated.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Did you build a blacksmith, barn, windmill (upgraded granary) and lamppost (upgraded firepit)? You also need a land deed from a town center for the racial units.

Two backpack bugs today:
* At some point I picked up a bone in the backpack that seemed no different from the others, except that it was in its own slot and can't be moved around. Then all picked up bones became like that one, leaving me with a stack of bones that can't be sold, dropped or given to the necromancer.
* Picking up a Grimoire or Main Gauche with the backpack causes it to drop due to not meeting stat requirements. If autopickup is on, it grabs it, drops it, grabs it, drops it, filling up the screen with error messages. Weirdly enough, it can pick up a Soul Reaper with no problem.

Game crashed, likely due to using the Explosive Shot on too many units.

The river that heads north from the lake can't be entirely sailed by boats, there's a waterfall where they don't go in the canal.

Idea:
* Let pack horses go into dungeons.
* If you ever get around to letting units use items: Make pack horses affected by Animal War Training, increasing their HP and letting them use items as heroes (i.e. wearing armor and carrying aura items) to make them a useful part of the army instead of just carting items around.
* Give racial farms item slots. Giving the farm a number of seeds will make them produce that number of crops (slower than the standard way), the way quarries produce ore.
* Put more Smuggler's Dens (or equivalent) around the map, it gives more base possibilities for bandits.

 

[Ehekakoatl515]

Did you build a blacksmith, barn, windmill (upgraded granary) and lamppost (upgraded firepit)? You also need a land deed from a town center for the racial units.

No I didn't. I'll do that, thanks.

 

[Zephyrius2412]

Just excellent RPG map. I love the system of resources (mining, etc...) and the crafting. I think it merit a 5/5

 

[Peaces]

what is the new update about good sir?

 

[Wark]

Nothing new yet, just putting upcoming changes in the changelog and adding more credits to the list.
I'll change the version number when I release actual content, which should be in a couple days.

Just excellent RPG map. I love the system of resources (mining, etc...) and the crafting. I think it merit a 5/5

Thanks @Zephyrius2412, I'm glad you enjoy it!

Put more Smuggler's Dens (or equivalent) around the map

@cleavinghammer I like this idea, I'll put one up north. And, I thought pack horses were affected by animal war training... I'll double check that and the canal problem.

 

[SlumberTurtle]

What is this "Heroic Victory"? What enemies do I need to kill? The enemies in the dungeons?

 

[Wark]

What is this "Heroic Victory"?

You'll see it soon in version 1.29. It involves killing more than just the dungeon bosses.

 

[SlumberTurtle]

Also, I got keys from quests. What are they keys for?

 

[joss2704]

Also, I got keys from quests. What are they keys for?

U can use it later in the dungeons