Northrend Bound v1.85

[cleavinghammer]

Hard mode: Maybe increase the event rate, like having pirates and mine bandits spawn simultaneously.

 

[Xeryxoz]

Wark, you need to tweak the teleportation scrolls to cost a lot more than 50 gold or to only be usable on Settlements. Reason is, there is a large amount of abuse with campfires in the use of instant trading; it just isn't a fair thing for the scroll to be 50 gold for that sort of thing; leaves everyone very vulnerable against exploiters who instantly war everyone when they do this. Scroll should be at 1000 or more; or have a very long cooldown...

 

[fish fish fish fish]

What about zeppelins?

 

[Insanity_AI]

Wark, you need to tweak the teleportation scrolls to cost a lot more than 50 gold or to only be usable on Settlements. Reason is, there is a large amount of abuse with campfires in the use of instant trading; it just isn't a fair thing for the scroll to be 50 gold for that sort of thing; leaves everyone very vulnerable against exploiters who instantly war everyone when they do this. Scroll should be at 1000 or more; or have a very long cooldown...

Or you know, I just use quarterstaff to teleport around like a maniac

 

[Xeryxoz]

Zeppelins are manageable but, teleportation should be something that costs a lot, and should be a main building teleportation sort of thing. Having it cost so very little is unrealistic

 

[Wark]

@xHennx
Hmm. See, teleportation is something I want to have, but I have some issues with it which forces me to use Mass Teleport over the Scroll to Town Portal ability.
In the past, I did increase the mana cost of Teleport by a lot, and gave it an increased cooldown (which disables other useful spells like Blink and Banish).

However, I myself even abuse teleportin' for quick trade income. I would argue if you're the only one teleporting around and playing the market, you are getting some wicked sick gold.

Tell you what I can do. I can see about modifying the scrolls to be more like "scroll to town portal" where it only targets town halls (like tents, inns, etc.)
I do agree, teleport also needs a little stronger nerf, but not something that will gimp it.
But then, there IS fishing income to compensate... I mean, if no one watches the waters, that is. Mining is also no joke.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Speaking of which, will there be some way to automate digging for items? Even with two heroes digging, it takes far too long to dig up anything useful.

 

[Wselfwulf]

Review:

The first time I played this map I had a pleasant feeling, it started of great, some micro management,
and some late game exploration, which I only got to once the majority of the lobby already left....

HOWEVER, the next time I played this map I felt a little annoyed, the progress was bad,
different start packages weren't equally rewarded...
and player-progression for each person in the lobby started to branch off with extremely different rates depending on the 'job' they chose.

The game turned into some sort of money race to progress towards a nation, which for most players didn't even hit after 1:30 hours into the map.
And all this just to get completely annihilated a few seconds later by the one or two players far ahead of the progression curve....
This drained any and all fun out of the game-play.

In the end all I was left with was a few hours of my life I could never get back and feel either frustrated -or- bored.

It's as if no matter what I want, I won't get it if I don't play by the few downright broken methods that trump all the other farming tactics.

Technical Summary:
All the previous can be boiled down to:

The game tries to deliver multiple fields and doesn't deliver on any of them.

If I want to play 'melee', of which we hardly know how balanced it is due to the time it takes to even get to that and test it..., I might as well just play Ladder.
As for the Single-hero Explorer/quester/hero feel, it does not deliver either, if at all.
If any random rare spawn bitch just hops by and one shots you, then you won't be staying in the game for long...
Single-heroes are worthless in the grand scheme of bandits, armies & AI events, and all that if you even get to survive the natural neutral occurring animals in the wild...

Rating
With every replay my rating for this map dropped,
right now it deserves a 2 out of 5 at best...

My advice?
This map has A LOT of potential,-
Know which audiences/players (playstyle) you want to deliver for, and make sure you have an equal amount of content for those players.

Do not claim to appeal to difirent audiences as they'll only leave dissapointed.

And for the love of god increase the rates on everything: Build speed, resource gathering, Experience, movement, ...

 

[Wark]

@WselfWulf, thank you for the commentary. You do bring up a number of points which are definitely flaws.
I will say, this was not focused on being a melee map, and there are a lot of things that need balance. Balance is one thing I really need to focus on, especially for crafting and hunting.

What I do need, is feedback on this. What seems imbalanced? What is too overpowered? Stuff like this I cannot test all on my own.
In fact, I have only really played one truly random match outside of my playtests. I kind of want to play with other people more often.

For your advice, I probably will not increase movement (since players have options like zeppelins, ships or teleportation to get around), or building speed.
However, I do plan to adjust resource gathering rates and experience.
If you want a more "melee" experience, that is also why I'm experimenting with the Quick Start mode. I really do appreciate some honest feedback on these sorts of things.
On that note, I think I'll nerf that killer bunny.

 

[Nyantothep]

how about add tax feature?, for example if you sell a loot of same item the price get lowered (FOTN do this before, and if i am not wrong there is also corruption system that reduce % money if your gold hit certain threshold, i forgot is it from FOTN or not), or give building that increase food limits will generate gold equal to food given X 10 everyday and every unit need to pay equal to food used X 10 everyday xD
also, for harder income how about add chance to get murloc again when fishing with ship and also add chance to get that skeleton knight and zombie when using quarry, just kidding xD

oh yeah, bug report session xD
it seem like pathing blocker of tree of life 1 grid lesser than settlement

 

[fish fish fish fish]

Some thoughts i had:

Is upkeep intentional?
Why do hippogryphs take so much food?
How much gold do you need to win the econimic victory?
Where are chimeras?

Unit upgrades like iron weapons, etc, are a little boring. Planning on changing them in some way?
No one EVER visits the island city.
How about increasing exp and build speed in quick start?
Buildings take years to destroy without siege equipment.
I lose the same amount of reputation by killing someone in a city and killing someone in the corner of the map, out of sight.
Silver tongue takes a while to get.
I think digging should cost mana and have less cooldown.
Fish nets should have the ability to catch fish.
Vampires are almost pointless to kill.
Killing bandits should give reputation, to make it worth fighting them.
No one cares about alchemy and baking.
I think logging and digging tie as the worst ways to make money.
More accessory variety would be nice.
Are you planning on adding more ores?

Upgrading items only increase thier stats. What about upgrading abilities?
Shockwave splitting when hitting the target point. Block reflecting damage. Arcane missiles slow before firing. Etc.

for harder income how about add chance to get murloc again when fishing with ship and also add chance to get that skeleton knight and zombie when using quarry, just kidding xD

You should add something similar to hard mode or maybe add a very hard mode:
Quarries can dig up skeletons. Boats can catch murlocs. Rats can naturally spawn. You have to be trusted to get discounts. Talking doesn't give reputation. Digging has a higher chance to dig enemies. Wood-gold conversion costs more in cities.

 

[Insanity_AI]

No one EVER visits the island city.

I beg your pardon? I'll have you know that they have nice weather, hmph!

 

[fish fish fish fish]

I beg your pardon? I'll have you know that they have nice weather, hmph!

Let me guess, floods and rain?

But seriosuly, why would anyone choose to build a trading post on an island?
The closest shore-city isn't even that far away.

And why is fish worth much up north when there is a fishermans guild there?

 

[Wselfwulf]

You asked for details so here goes
@Wark I'll touch all the points in your message


The first point:

I will say, this was not focused on being a melee map, and there are a lot of things that need balance. Balance is one thing I really need to focus on, especially for crafting and hunting.

The melee part was not as much an aim as it was an example of one the "fields" or sections of your game.

With fields I'm speaking about dynamics or gameplay systems in your game.
I'll not go into boring details & theory about dynamics & mechanics and get straight to the point:

All of the content in your map feels tedious to get to, to obtain, to start with,-

And even once you start - it still doesn't always feel fun...​

The next point:

What I do need, is feedback on this. What seems imbalanced? What is too overpowered? Stuff like this I cannot test all on my own.
In fact, I have only really played one truly random match outside of my playtests. I kind of want to play with other people more often.

Balance is very important but first I'd take a few steps back from "minor changes" and simply look at how the systems work now, at what flaws are...
I will add more later but lets first give a very descriptive example:

I noticed you mention the bunny, so lets say:

"What bothers people when they play as hunter?"

And the answer to that can be multiple things. Obviously getting one hit by a rare boss unit, that looks like the weakest of critters, is one of them.

But it could also be that starting packages aren't always clear on that...
There seems no clear 'starting package-income source' relation while it has a large impact!

As a FotN player I associate spear with Hunting but this can be very different for all other players.

Moreover, I noticed that the spear, with the included boots, are much less of an interesting option for hunter as it is for trader, where the boots allow me to travel between the towns more quickly.

⇀ Picking the spear package benefits me most as trader

⇀ Picking spear will give me a starting advantage over the other players

As for hunting, seemingly the axe & shield package are a lot more viable against the wolves & bears in the north!

​

Now I don't know if the spear package was meant that way, but if it wasn't, you'll have to revisit something as trivial as 'starting packages' and figure out the best way to change/handle it!

MOST IMPORTANT FEEDBACK

Before any of the previous, I'd ask you to think about the following:
WHAT do you want the players to EXPERIENCE when they play YOUR game?


Founders of the North
Founders of the North(FotN) started off as the idea of some weeaboo to put you, the player, in the world of "Spice and Wolf".

Image from the Spice and Wolf anime:

Most characters & jobs in the FotN are based on the world in this series, specially the peddling trade.
The player feels like they are in a medieval world where trade, peddling & market demand (based on location and events such as war) are very important.
All companions you can marry in FotN are characters from the series with related abilities.
The same for all the other features which are also one more vaguely than the other based on the series....

Do the same for your game!
Think about what you want that the player can and will experience

• Do you want them to explore your world and discover treasures?

• Or maybe you want them to traverse mysterious dungeons with unimaginable treasures and monsters you only hear about in fairy tales?

• Or do you want your players to feel like they are the first explorers & settlers in a new land where they have the potential to grow out to a nation?

• ...

Whatever experiences you put in your game, make sure the player gets to feel that.
Reward them accordingly to the experience they chose!

Discovery? ⇀ You visited all outskirts of the map? Here a key to enter this "special hidden valley" that you can still explore!

DONE!

​

Industry or trade? ⇀ You want to trade? Here set up shops that other players can buy from, buy trade goods and other valuables you can sell for a small profit margin!

DONE!
​

Settling or growing to a nation? -> So you wanna become a nation huh? Here are some guys that are willing to help you!
Allow players to get some growth early on, hire a few mercs from the very start, instantly get an Inn, if the Inn is on a busy road, y'might just get some more income from passing travelers, ... (No more need to do tedious jobs)

DONE!
​

Co-operating with other players to make a large industry or nation? -> Want better management? With this co-op perk, that you can get for sharing x resources, you'll get shared control, merged incomes (to an extend), have the possibility to trade out units etc..

AND FUCKIN' DONE!!!​

Final point:

For your advice, I probably will not increase movement (since players have options like zeppelins, ships or teleportation to get around), or building speed.
However, I do plan to adjust resource gathering rates and experience.
If you want a more "melee" experience, that is also why I'm experimenting with the Quick Start mode. I really do appreciate some honest feedback on these sorts of things.
On that note, I think I'll nerf that killer bunny.

Movement is ambiguous, "faster/better movement" could be achieved by simply adding unlockable teleporters or faster transport features further into the game.

Same for jobs/tasks, like an upgrade that automatically collects chicken eggs!
It would not only make chickens "worth their food cost" but also alleviate the pain of gathering the eggs in the first place...

Same for resource gathering, who needs 50 food of shredders end-game if you could transform a settlement into a logging operation.

Sure you may make it expensive to get but it at least would be worth the effort, just to make profit somewhere down the line...

The point here is that everything takes too long, and here is where balance really comes in to play:
You just want the game experience to be enjoyable, if at any point something feels tedious or annoying, that's because it probably is.​

Post Scriptum:
P.S.: Do tell me about the "Quickstart Mode".

And if you want I'll make an in-depth collage of images to point out all the problems I ran into so far.

Picture semi-related

 

[Wark]

EDIT:
Alright, v1.48 is out. This should make new games more dynamic and faster paced than before. All players start with 500 gold in normal or hard mode, 2000 gold with 500 lumber in quick start.

Starting professions are (with starting items and traits):
- Founder: Pickaxe, +400 lumber, Land Deed (which gives access to the new tax income) and Green Thumb
- Fisherman: Hatchet, Fishing Rod, Bait, and Master Angler
- Trader: Shortsword, Leather Boots, Silver Tongue and Mercenary Contract
- Hunter: Spear, Wooden Board, Dog Whistle, Huntsman
- Bandit: Nimble Gloves, Shiv, Leather Boots, Hated, +25% exp rate

Other details are in the changelog.
If you have ideas for other starting combinations, or further suggestions/feedback, please let me know.

 

[Nyantothep]

Haloo wark, i have an idea about starting packages, but first, certain tool need to change into weapon, and have same price with pickaxe
-fishing rod give INT and damage also give skill to fishing (like in the boat) and net (remove net from market and also can you make fishing spot can be depleted and can be used again in the next day?), net have half the effect if the target is hero
-torch give AGI and damage also give ability to reveal invisible unit and skill to burn corp/tree and to scare animal away from for certain second (like new hero from dota2 who make other hero go back to fountain) after all, animal scared to fire and now dog can be summoned without flute
-shovel give STR and damage and skill to dig and slow enemy like gnome in mine, also can you make that if you digging near and inside dungeon also increase chance to get item for example +10% if near, +25% if inside, +35% in boss room ( also make sure that every dungeon entrance have monster like in sea dungeon that when you go inside you get surrounded by skeletons) slow have half the effect if the target is hero

and the starting packages is
-founder: pickaxe, lumber and some seeds (focus in lumbering, planting seeds and building) can have more unit early but beware to traveler that can steal your effort
-fisherman: fishing rod and some baits (focus in fishing of course) can have more gold than other player but beware to treasure hunter, they can slow you when you try to escape and when you fishing treasure hunter may get more good item than your fish and kill you before you have chance to sell them
-traveler: torch and leather boots (focus to become merchant) can have good reputation, level and more gold than other but frail at start and torch only work to animal
-treasure hunter: shovel and some potions or bomb (focus in digging like hell) hope that god of luck love you, beware to not get killed by what you dig
-bandit: shiv, boots, 25% more EXP, and hated (the same as before)

 

[fish fish fish fish]

More irrelevant thoughts:

Can you make it possible to see the achievement progress?
There should be a warning when someone is close to reaching the economic victory.
Also, how does someone just win when they have enough gold or have killed some important people?
Why does the trader have a shortsword? What about the staff commonly used by pilgrims, or whatever it said.
How do i make sulfur with a windmill and 100 gold?
When, (if you are adding it) is the trade-supply-demand-thing coming?
You should probably increase the maximum stock if you are adding it, to not destroy trading.
People use dogs for trading.
Where did the warrior go?
I think getting to 40 in a stat should be more rewarding.
Crafting 40 stat gear doesn't do much, and costs nothing, relative to the amont of gold people have when they reach 40 in a stat.
Split stat builds are not viable.
The tp scroll nerf didn't do much.

When someone leaves or econimic victory is achieved, the message displays twice.
Do you play this game with others?

Research + Military + Gold mines + Trees = Standard Wc3 Melee.
I can't even beat an easy bot, how am i supposed to stand a chance?

Oh, i have proof of no one visiting the island city.
Apples don't give discounts, no one has mentioned it before.

 

[Wark]

@fish fish fish fish
I could make a command to display achievement progress. That's completely doable.
I have also been thinking about removing gold mines completely in favor of player controlled market structures: something that automatically trades goods to specific towns, between players, or simply to sell goods for a minimal price. Gold mines are kind of "meh" and supplementary to begin with. I could just add Sulfur deposits...
Sulfur's just a test thing I was using to check potion and bomb crafting. I'll remove that and check apple pricing.

I also agree about a supply and demand system, but I haven't figured that out yet. I am thinking it'll require a hashtable. Diminishing returns with profit adjustment over time is what I plan to do. For example:
1) Player sells 10 Leather in the north for 100 gold each.
2) Profits for the Leather decreases by -10 gold. Next piece sold sells for 90 gold, and so on, until the base limit of half (50 gold each)
3) Every 30 seconds, demand increases profits by 1 gold up to the maximum again. It'll take 300 seconds (5 minutes) for Leather to reach a sell price of 100 gold each again.

This'll force people to not just spam trade specific goods all the time, as they run the risk of losing gold. I may increase the number of goods in each market to 20, but also increase their cooldown, to give players an idea of what goods are being traded the most. Alternatively, they may look into crafting those materials into something else for profit.
It will be extremely difficult to adjust the sell price based on supply. I may just leave that as the default with Silver Tongue's discount.

Right now I am experimenting with classes, and I may just get rid of game modes in favor of making them an event (for hard mode, something you can summon at a shrine)
I am also thinking about making it so you can pick a starting "trait" with starting "gear" after race selection, with the option of just getting gold.

I do not play this game with others as often as I wish. Conditions at home get in the way of proper development.

 

[fish fish fish fish]

I could make a command to display achievement progress. That's completely doable.

I would prefer clicking on the achievement to see progress and if it is completed.

I have also been thinking about removing gold mines completely in favor of player controlled market structures: something that automatically trades goods to specific towns, between players, or simply to sell goods for a minimal price. Gold mines are kind of "meh" and supplementary to begin with. I could just add Sulfur deposits...

Some information:
Dictatorships Usually have their citizens dig after valuables and give them almost nothing, (extracting).
Democracies have profitable workers, who are taxed, (trading, generating).
Maybe replace gold mines with a better taxing system and the ability to have people work in some way?

By the way, quarries are used to extract stone, gravel, marble, etc.
While mines are used to dig for more valuable things, iron, gold, diamond, etc.

You should add treasure maps (or something similar) to make digging more exiting. Maybe have villagers tell you something?

 

[Nyantothep]

haloo
i found bug again
first, galley from elf cannot attack after got upgrade to get piercing attack but ballista still ok, and i don't know if it is bug or not but moon well can replenish mana from chicken, sheep and pig

 

[Xeryxoz]

There might be a ground breaking bug within the map my friend. Preferably it has something to do with the AI bandits. Three times in a row when we launched an attack on the pink bandit, each time one unit which is not pinks' enters deep enough into the base, it causes the map to crash. Now, I am not sure if it's just pink or every other bandit, or if this is or isn't the reason for the crash, but three times now it crashed when units entered the AI base belonging to pink, and so far, I can't see any other possibility for a bug.

 

[Wark]

@xHennx
I know about this bug, and still need help from someone on AI scripts.

I have narrowed it down to be a problem with the AI script itself: not leaks, not a function through triggers.
I just don't know how to fix it after changing their build order/checking conditions/increasing base location size.

All I know is that certain locations are a problem and having more than 1 bandit AI can cause a crash when attacking their base.
Is it only Pink that causes it? If so, then maybe the AI script just requires more space at that specific location.

EDIT:
I made Pink's (and others) start location bigger with this update, and toned down their gold income to make them a little easier.
One person mentioned the AI doesn't crash if it's with 1 bandit. For me, it seems to crash for more than 2 if they are fully built up.

 

[Ardenaso]

Just an irrelevant thought: Nobody likes seeing undead or Forsaken in real life; I think Undead should start and will always be hated.

 

[fish fish fish fish]

What will be added next?

 

[Wark]

I am thinking both piracy and town conquering since these were both tied.
It's going to take me a while to figure out a good town conquering mechanic.
I also plan to rework bandit life, and change all racial techtrees (how they progress) by giving them options.

For example, Humans can go:
1) magic techtree (has spellbreakers, sorcerers, priests, archers with searing arrows)
2) steampunk techtree (replaces archers with musketeers, replaces catapults with cannons, has gunship-type flying unit, might still have priests? techpriests?)
3) bandit techtree (human version of the existing bandit tech)

It'll be a while.

 

[cleavinghammer]

For the towns, maybe something like killing all towers and guards, then paying to rebuild the towers?

 

[Nyantothep]

about the town, i think add chief/mayor NPC, you can get the town if you giving certain amount of money and do a favor/quest (example: every gold given and quest complete give certain amount of point like reputation, the most higher point is the one who take control the town so the NPC can betray you) or even kill him (The mayor need to be as strong as boss, sooo it hard to kill), example is if you able to kill the Mayor, the town totally yours but the town comeback completely neutral after the Founder die ??? i think its bad....
hahahaha

 

[robizeratul]

things are getting better and better! really excited for new update

 

[Kobrawow]

Aloha!

Me and my crew play your map a lot and we found a bug

Spoiler: Exploit

if you buy a land deed or a mercenary contract alrddy having it , it gives you more money that what it cost , so you can spam it and get infinite money it really sucks

We can agree not to use it ,but when playing with randoms its a mess , you never know who's cheating

also(i know its alrddy reported but) while playing with 3 AI on the last spots ( pink grey and green i think?) , its 100% crash at some point , for someone. We didnt really tried with other colored AI

we are not really sure , But those crashes where more likely to happens when we where figthing this AI , and not on their bases , but rather on anywhere, Defending our bases , on the roads , anywhere , at around 1 - 2 hours of playing

ps: i tried to pm you , but i cant , its says something about spam

 

[LordVandor1]

Let me start by saying I love this.
It has some kind of depth to it, and it definitely is worth hours and hours of playing.
I love LoaP maps, but this one is definitely better than all the others alike.
(except maybe Power Ultimate)

But it is missing some crucial stuff, so my suggestions are:
-Give more leveling to units (at least 20?), but make it much slower (so that orcs upgrades have more sense)
-Make a dynasty system: option to get married and have kids that either become heroes or substitute your founder when
it dies
-Make more islands? Cause right now the naval stuff is pointless since the map is 85% land... And rivers are too small for ships to fit.
So increase the sea part
-Make items for units, so I can preserve/power-up my favorite ones
-Of course make random quests and the other things suggested by polling
-Put more neutral challenges! Wolves ain't gonna do anything to me. Traveling is too simple

Thank you very much for your amazing work, keep it up! 5/5

 

[fish fish fish fish]

More stupid thoughts:

-Clicking "cook meat" 1250 times takes a while and might induce carpal tunnel syndrome. Maybe make the ability auto-cast or create a bakery?
-Meat is cheap up north, cooked meat is worth more in the same area. Makes sense.
-Whenever something seems broken, campfires are always involved.
-Trading has probably become the worst job, if someone else is doing it, you're screwed.
-In the next update, will prices go up if the item hasn't been sold recently?
-Units entering buildings to build become hidden if the area can't be built on. Can't remember exactly how.
-Are you planning on adding more animals, like cows?
-How do you create animals and seeds from a barn?
-I have never seen anyone use landmines, sappers, potions and bombs.
-To add unit items, what about giving the unit items on creation if you have the required resources and researches?
-If you are implementing a dynasty system, will levels reset? Can heroes still be revived?
-Is repair costing resources intentional?
-Tier four+ items? More uniques?
-More wall upgrades? Or make them take less space?

To make winning easier, races could have a "racial" like humans but more powerful.
Human: For 100k, take all cities under neutral control.
Orc: Special thing, become blood/fel/red orcs.
Undead: Acolytes can summon owned buildings on the map.
Nightelf: Special building, target area starfall.
Dwarf: Special building, can make tunnels, functions as gateway.
Bandits: ???, gain all profit from regional prices.

For town conquering, i have an idea:
-The north and the east city have gates that close themselves when attacked.
-Once a structure belonging to a town is attacked, units are sent out to protect.
-After the gate is destroyed towers become vulnerable and villagers run to a building to become milita.
-When all towers are destroyed, the townhall becomes vulnerable.
-The player to last hit the townhall claims a destroyed townhall.
-Townhall has to be rebuilt to function again.

-Make more islands? Cause right now the naval stuff is pointless
since the map is 85% land... And rivers are too small for ships to fit.
So increase the sea part

-Building on islands is a great way to protect your stuff,
-It is possible to fish in the ocean.
-A ship at a time can fit inside the main river.
-Ranged units can shoot units in the dungeons.
-Wark is planning on adding more things to the ocean.

No one knows this, but there is a city in the ocean.

 

[Wark]

-Trading has probably become the worst job, if someone else is doing it, you're screwed.
-In the next update, will prices go up if the item hasn't been sold recently?

I do think market adjustments are required at this point. I think I will both adjust the rates, and increase the gold return for all goods that become "high in demand."
I may even add some way to keep track of what trade goods are in demand, or add an event for such.

The biggest thing I am working on is overhauling the map's layout. As @LordVandor1 mentioned, I also feel the rivers are a little too narrow, and some pathways are a little too cramped. My hopes also is that it may fix the AI's crash problem if I reduce doodads in some locations.
As for neutral challenges, for the next version, try type "-wildhunt" or "-hardmode" or both

@Kobrawow I noticed that problem with the deed and contract and have it fixed for the next update. Thank you. The AI always seems to do that once they are fully built up, so I came up with an idea to prevent them from ever fully building up.

And finally,

To make winning easier, races could have a "racial" like humans but more powerful.

This is the kind of thing that is also taking a lot of time. I am completely changing how each race will work.

• Undead, for example, will have the option to heavily rely on necromancers for "food" with a certain techtree.
• Humans, so far, can choose between magic or technology.

I like idea of "ultimate" buildings, and think I'll incorporate that into the techtree building system I'm working on.
I too have always wanted some way to allow dwarves to "tunnel". I think I may have found a way to do that with a rally point or ground target ability.

 

[LordVandor1]

Hi @Wark ! Just wanted to let you know, that I'm so hyped for this map that I'm actually checking EVERYDAY for updates.
So thank you again for your work :3

 

[Wark]

@LordVandor1 Thank you for the enthusiasm! The update will come when it's finished. I am almost done with the terrain changes, and still have a lot of work to do with the techtrees, units, and heroes. I have a list of upcoming changes in the changelog, v1.51.

EDIT:
To stave off anticipation, I'll push to get everything done by the New Year. I got some family stuff to do between now and then.

Double EDIT:
After extensive testing, bandit AI does not cause a crash when there is only 1 bandit. I still do not know why or how more than 1 bandit causes the random crash. I am going to try testing bandit AI being set as enemies to each other, and see how that goes.

 

[LordVandor1]

I'm gonna try Wildhunt and Hardmode whilst having two bandit factions. It's gonna be amazing I think.

 

[Wark]

New update's out for the holidays with a large number of changes and additions!
@LordVandor1 helped out with checking the AI, which appears to be not crashing anymore.
Details of v1.51 in the changelog.

 

[Ardenaso]

As a bandit when I conquered a town, the townsfolk suddenly becomes allied (but it becomes normal again when I spoke to the a random villager); Also, the paladin mayor isn't willing to attack villagers but his smite can kill them. May I suggest towns conquered by bandits not spawn soldiers and guards? (The other soldiers can still come) and I think the sheriff in orc village should be a troll or an orc.

 

[Wark]

@Ardenaso
I agree to changing the Orc Town "generic sheriff" to something else. The becoming neutral part was to stop players above "hated" status from continuing to pummel guards or villagers, so I forgot a check for bandit or hated players.

I thought about stopping town guards from spawning, but with how the respawn triggers are set up, that is difficult to do. I kind of like the idea of guards rebelling against "hated" players, though.
Thanks for pointing out the target flaws on Smite. It's probably the same for a couple other Mayor units.

What do you think, though? Is being "unwilling to target" villagers a good idea?
Do you think market control will play a large role in multiplayer?
Is the income gain from vassal states reasonable?

EDIT:
I am also thinking about making a victory condition to control all towns to win, like conquest, but not by killing enemy players. Would that be a good idea?

 

[Ardenaso]

@Ardenaso

What do you think, though? Is being "unwilling to target" villagers a good idea?
Do you think market control will play a large role in multiplayer?
Is the income gain from vassal states reasonable?

EDIT:
I am also thinking about making a victory condition to control all towns to win, like conquest, but not by killing enemy players. Would that be a good idea?

Hmm I haven't tried market and vassal yet but I'm sure mayors unwilling to attack villagers makes sense. I think having to take all the towns would be tedious and take too long to win.

 

[LordVandor1]

Neat :3

 

[OfficiallyAsian]

Reminds me of FOTN, it's been a favorite map of mine. I tried this one, and it was amazing

 

[The Noobest]

The Zealous ability in agility armors doesn't seem to work the last time I check.

 

[Nyantothep]

The Zealous ability in agility armors doesn't seem to work the last time I check.

i also got no mana after using skill but when i use boots or headdress from stag, it's mana become full xD. Of course after using some skill

 

[Wark]

@The Noobest just did a check, and the Zealous ability does indeed work as intended. It gives you a set amount of mana equal to (Agility + Intel) / 2.
For example, Shockwave on the spear with 10 Agility and 8 Intel:
- Costs 23 mana, I have 130 mana. I use Shockwave, I have 116 mana left. (10 + 8) / 2 = 9. 130 - 23 + 9 = 116.

EDIT:
Updated a few things and did some bug fixes.

 

[Ardenaso]

May I suggest an Iron Ore around bottom right?

 

[Wark]

I was thinking about an iron deposit on one of the islands, actually.
That will come with the dawn of piracy and random ships roaming the seas.

Also, what do you think about captured towns increasing your food cap?

 

[Ardenaso]

Hmm I guess it's unnecessary. Also, the fishing boat doesn't automatically fish in this patch. And Human going founder doesn't disable Hide Outs. And Orc hero has Sanction. May I also suggest putting town guards into your control when you capture a town (and probably stop spawning soldiers).

 

[Wark]

Going founder doesn't disable the bandit techtree, yea. Although, disabling it sort of makes sense because it emphasizes base building.
Again, giving town guards to a player doesn't work because of how they function. However, they do a pretty good job at defending if you keep reputation up.
I like the function of how they rebel against you if you try to capture another town. It makes victory through controlling all towns a challenge, requiring massive armies.
I messed up a timer, so fishing isn't working in this patch.

Good news though: I got my piracy stuff coming out really soon. (where I'll have that timer fixed again)
It's going to be about doing a lot more stuff at sea and giving purpose to piracy.

EDIT:
For the next update, I am thinking about changing things up. I want to add some kind of "Adventurer" techtree from the tent, similar to when you choose going either Racial or Bandit.
The Adventurer techtree will have little to no military or economy, but will give you access to more hero "archetypes" while gaining more experience. It will also be quest based.

 

[Ardenaso]

I see; the problem with crash has returned when I paid Bandit Teal a visit. I'm looking forward for pirates in the bandit techtree.

 

[Ardenaso]

I found a bug where I do not get the bandit techtree when I built a hideout (maybe because I was despised beforehand?) and also, the model barrow den is kind of out of place, I think use the actual barrow model for it and then the tall night elf fishing village with crest for the inn; and did you remove the custom dwarven building models?