[Need Resource and idea] Forsaken Race

Level 5
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Hello i need an ideas about units and building of forsaken that i will use for my project.
can anyone suggest anything more for me?
the time is after TFT and before WotLK

I think it's the best that they not summon building like scourge, therefore I need an idea for the worker too

so far i had

1. Deathguard (Basic melee unit)

2. Dark Archer(Basic ranged unit)
Abilities: Dark Arrow?
Upgrades:?
Model:http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=101022

3. Apothecary (Supportive Spellcaster)
Abilities: Slow Potion, Healing Concoction,
Upgrades: Adept Training
Model:?

4. Banshee (Supportive Spellcaster)
A normal Banshee

5. Blight Catapult (Mechanical Siege)
Abilities: Corrosive Concoction
Upgrades: Corrosive Concoction
Model:?

6. Warlock (Primary Spellcaster)

7. Assassin (Melee Tier 3 Unit)
Abilities: Permanent Invisibility?
Upgrades: ?
Model: http://xgm.ru/p/wc3/undead-rogue

8. Royal Dreadguard (Heavy Melee Unit)
Abilities: ?
Upgrades: ?
Model: http://xgm.ru/p/wc3/black-knight

9. Architect (Worker)

10. Death/Plague Rider (Flier Unit)


1. Catacomb (Barrack)
Train : Deathguard, Dark Archer, Assassin
Upgrades : ?
Model : http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/new-graveyard-117101/

2. Royal Stronghold (Ownage building)
Train : Royal Dreadguard
Upgrades : ?
Model : http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/necrostronghold-122937/

3. Apothecarium (Workshop)
Train : Apothecary, Blight Catapult
Upgrades : ?
Model : http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/armory-50075/

4. Altar of Shadow (Altar)

5. Tomb (House)


1. Dark Ranger
A normal Dark Ranger

2. Grand Apothecary
Primary Attribute: Intelligence
Role: Support Spellcaster
Abilities: ?
Model: http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=109711

3. Lightslayer


i need a model of apothecary
it looks like thishttp://www.wowpedia.org/images/thumb/5/50/Apothecary_Celestine.jpg/177px-Apothecary_Celestine.jpg or http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh268/QwashQai/Dessmonde.jpg
 
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Level 24
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Here's a couple of units i could come up with:
-Deathstalker (this one is probably most fitting for an agility hero)
-Val'kyr (flying unit, of course this one is only fitting if your project is set in a post-lich king Azeroth)
-Deathguard (melee unit, possible replacement for miller?)
-Dark Cleric (spellcasting hero? official name for the Forsaken shadowpriests)
-Royal Apothecary (intelligence hero. Reason I'm bringing this one up, is because there is an awesome model fitting this class)

Here are a couple of the better Forsaken-ish resources I found. You probably have some of these already, but whatever:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...-blp-172437/?prev=search=forsaken&d=list&r=20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...gaurd-48692/?prev=search=forsaken&d=list&r=20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/rpgundrogue-83583/?prev=search=forsaken&d=list&r=20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/rpgundead-83582/?prev=search=forsaken&d=list&r=20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...ancer-83584/?prev=search=forsaken&d=list&r=20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/undeadwarlock-50022/?prev=search=undead&d=list&r=20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/udrogue-47998/?prev=search=undead&r=20&d=list&page=2
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/demoness-47988/?prev=search=undead&r=20&d=list&page=4
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...134277/?prev=search=undead&r=20&d=list&page=8
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...21296/?prev=search=undead&r=20&d=list&page=10
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=109711 (for the Grand Apothecary hero)
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=101022

Also, here are a couple from XGM. I know Hive isn't too fond of XGM, so I will put them in a hidden-tab; open at own risk!
 
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Here's a couple of units i could come up with:
-Deathstalker (this one is probably most fitting for an agility hero)
-Val'kyr (flying unit, of course this one is only fitting if your project is set in a post-lich king Azeroth)
-Deathguard (melee unit, possible replacement for miller?)
-Dark Cleric (spellcasting hero? official name for the Forsaken shadowpriests)
-Royal Apothecary (intelligence hero. Reason I'm bringing this one up, is because there is an awesome model fitting this class)

very good idea indeed, i will list the new unit that i think will be good for the forsaken

but for Val'kyr i don't think i can have one, because the setting is before WotLK
and for Cleric i think i will not have a strength hero if i add it
 

Kyrbi0

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I too have been tossing around a Forsaken race idea(s) for quite some time now, and I've gone back and forth a lot. Basically, though, it boils down to what kind of Theme you want your faction to be Inspired from. Either:

A: Wc3 Forsaken (minor WoW influence)
Patterned after the fledgling Forsaken portrayed in the TFT campaigns, this faction would be mostly freed & disenfranchised Undead, supported heavily by Possessed Humans/Bandits/Creeps/etc. No demons or ice, probably.

B: WoW Forsaken (minor Wc3 influence)
Patterned after the better-established Forsaken portrayed in WoW, this faction would be... I dunno. Lots of zombie-warriors, aerial Bat units, the new Plague, possibly demons, Horde alliances?

Over time, of course, my Forsaken race has become more like -> C: Random "Alternate Undead" Race / Idea Dump
Which is fun, but unfocused and thus pointless.

~~~

For obvious reasons, I prefer the former. It really depends on which direction you want to take it, though.
Determining how 'separate' they are from the Scourge is also helpful. Do they build with summoning Acolytes? Do they gather with Haunted Gold Mines? Do they harvest with T1BasicMelee (Ghouls)? Do they build/regenerate only on Blight? Etc.

P.S. Don't do bats. That's for Trolls. Forsaken Bats are dumb. Anyone know what the Forsaken have in WoW that flies? Or is it just bats? :p
 
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If you want us to give you the best ideas, you need to tell us precisely at what point in time your forsaken race is based on.

Here's how I'd see it ; i'm adding the Human equivalent to each unit, as I feel the Forsaken to be much closer to the Humans than to the Undead (in wc3 terms) as far as society, fighting style and organization go.

Deathguard / (Risen) Warrior <-> Footman
Dark Archer <-> Rifleman
Abomination <-> Knight
Dark Cleric <-> Priest
Warlock <-> Sorceress
Banshee <-> Sorceress²
<Filler Unit> ... The Val'kyr was a great idea
Batrider <-> Dragonhawk Rider
Royal Dreadguard <-> "Super Unit" (like the tauren or chimearas)
Plague Catapult <-> Mortar Team

<Heroes>
Grand Apothecary, would use potions, the new plague and shadow spells
Dark Ranger, based on Sylvanas
Assassin, a stealthy, high-single-target damage dealer ; use Moroes the Kharazan boss for ability ideas
Doomguard (if you're banning val'kyrs, you can't ban Varimathras' forces !), combines high tankiness and magic damage
Shadow Priest, deals good DoT damage ; good vs spellcasters (manaburn or dispel) ; heals allies depending on damage dealt
 
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Kyrbi0

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@SuperPingwin: What's with the "Deathguard" appearing twice in your idea-list? Is it really both

Models are important, but you gotta focus on design first, in my opinion. Aesthetics, gameplay, balance, and a solid Theme & Role are what help make a faction cool (that, and some awexome ideas). Models should be the dressing, not the salad (hard though it is). :p

I would highly suggest familiarizing yourself with Wc3:TFT melee gameplay and such. Also definitely read this tutorial over at Wc3C by MCV which gives an excellent analysis of race design (maybe someday we'll update it, but until then, it's pretty solid).

//EDIT
Also, please avoid "Acipult"... It just... doesn't make sense. Like almost at all. If you're going for whimsy, keep the "a-pult" part and just go with something more like "Plague-a-pult" (silly, but at least makes sense). Perhaps even branch out to something entirely different.

//EDIT2
As I was saying earlier, you should decide in what manner this custom faction will be presented. I.e., are they going to appear as a "5th-race addition" to the normal 4, or are they going to be a stand-alone race in a campaign, or somewhere in between?

Reason being because if it's the former (5th-race addition), you probably want to make it compatible with Melee. Which would mean no units, heroes, abilities or buildings in common with what exists. Which would mean you'd need replacements for the Banshee, Dark Ranger, and any Undead buildings (for the most part). Not bad, just different.
 
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Level 3
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@Kirby

I'll edit my first post. Basicaly, the first Deathguard = the dudes guarding tirisfal glade villages, and the second Deathguards = the ones from Sylvanas.

I'll make a more constructed post later on to help you out on the general idea of each unit I posted.

EDIT : Generally speaking, in WoW, a solid 90% of Forsaken players go for a spellcasting class or a rogue. Use this to your advantage while designing the race.
 

Kyrbi0

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@Kirby

I'll edit my first post. Basicaly, the first Deathguard = the dudes guarding tirisfal glade villages, and the second Deathguards = the ones from Sylvanas.

I'll make a more constructed post later on to help you out on the general idea of each unit I posted.

EDIT : Generally speaking, in WoW, a solid 90% of Forsaken players go for a spellcasting class or a rogue. Use this to your advantage while designing the race.
Eeeyyyeeeeaaah... If it wasn't clear, not only do I not play WoW, but I'm not a huge fan of how they deal with races & lore. It's definitely an option for how to build a Forsaken race, but I think Wc3-based all the way.

(Good example: no faction of with that many casters (90%) would be that much fun to play, IMO. Very difficult to micro-manage and figuring out synergies too)

Just my opinion, however. Look forward to hearing more detail, however. :p
 
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I have edited my post a bit
and the Forsaken I will create is more like a force of freed undead from scourge that include more zombie like warrior(with flesh, not only bone) and without demon, because they will only loyal to varimathras that will betray sylvanas later.
Abomination <-> Knight
Dark Cleric <-> Priest
<Filler Unit> ... The Val'kyr was a great idea
Batrider <-> Dragonhawk Rider
Royal Dreadguard <-> "Super Unit" (like the tauren or chimearas)
Plague Catapult <-> Mortar Team

As I know Sylvanas has a very little number of freed abomination, its mean that I can't use it on the army.
For Dark Cleric I think an Apothecary will match better
The Val'kyr as I said, my time line is before WotLK, therefore a Val'kyr not an option
Batrider, need a model
Royal Dreadguard is good. Very good, I can use it as a Heavy melee unit
and I still need a better name for Acipult

<Heroes>
Assassin, a stealthy, high-single-target damage dealer ; use Moroes the Kharazan boss for ability ideas
Doomguard (if you're banning val'kyrs, you can't ban Varimathras' forces !), combines high tankiness and magic damage

I put Lightslayer as an Assasin hero on my list
and for doom guard.....I think I like more Undead strength hero than a demon one

http://xgm.ru/p/wc3/black-knight
Tier 3 siege meele unit with a slow as, but powerfull attacks.
http://xgm.ru/p/wc3/4339
Deathguard
http://xgm.ru/p/wc3/marauder-undead
Hero unit.

thanks i'll need this

As I was saying earlier, you should decide in what manner this custom faction will be presented. I.e., are they going to appear as a "5th-race addition" to the normal 4, or are they going to be a stand-alone race in a campaign, or somewhere in between?

Reason being because if it's the former (5th-race addition), you probably want to make it compatible with Melee. Which would mean no units, heroes, abilities or buildings in common with what exists. Which would mean you'd need replacements for the Banshee, Dark Ranger, and any Undead buildings (for the most part). Not bad, just different.

I want to make it a race on my campaign as well as it compatible for melee game

Can anyone help me on an Apothecary model(the unit, not the hero one)
 

Kyrbi0

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I have edited my post a bit
and the Forsaken I will create is more like a force of freed undead from scourge that include more zombie like warrior(with flesh, not only bone) and without demon, because they will only loyal to varimathras that will betray sylvanas later.
===
and I still need a better name for Acipult
===
I put Lightslayer as an Assasin hero on my list
===
I want to make it a race on my campaign as well as it compatible for melee game
===
Can anyone help me on an Apothecary model(the unit, not the hero one)
Alright, makes sense (personally, I always saw them as TFT depicted them (i.e. a focus on the wraiths and spirits, less of the corpses & stuff), but again, just pick a direction and see where it takes you.
===
Seriously, even "Plague-a-pult" is marginally better. I'll be keeping it in mind, though.
===
So what exactly is a "Lightslayer", and what does he do (aside from kill photons? :p). I mean, sounds cool, and "assassin-hero" is neat, but where does he come in (lore, gameplay, etc)?
===
Alright then, sounds like me. If that's the case, then you'll probably want to start rethinking the units carried over from the normal game (Dark Ranger, Banshee, Batrider, etc). Don't despair, however; there's tons of ideas.
===
Meh... To be honest, something I've found is that while you can make hero & unit versions of a single idea in one race (Far Seer - Shaman, Lich - Necromancer, etc), sometimes ideas run thin and you can instead branch out and get something more interesting.
That, and there's sort of a dearth of good "apothecary" models (aside from the one AnemicRoyalty created for our Hero Contest entry, as linked above (although that one could use a few tweaks to make it more "heroic")), so maybe you would consider having either an Apothecary Hero/Unit, but not both.
 
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So what exactly is a "Lightslayer", and what does he do (aside from kill photons? :p). I mean, sounds cool, and "assassin-hero" is neat, but where does he come in (lore, gameplay, etc)?
===
Alright then, sounds like me. If that's the case, then you'll probably want to start rethinking the units carried over from the normal game (Dark Ranger, Banshee, Batrider, etc). Don't despair, however; there's tons of ideas.
===
Meh... To be honest, something I've found is that while you can make hero & unit versions of a single idea in one race (Far Seer - Shaman, Lich - Necromancer, etc), sometimes ideas run thin and you can instead branch out and get something more interesting.
That, and there's sort of a dearth of good "apothecary" models (aside from the one AnemicRoyalty created for our Hero Contest entry, as linked above (although that one could use a few tweaks to make it more "heroic")), so maybe you would consider having either an Apothecary Hero/Unit, but not both.

From a Warcraft RPG Lightslayer
===
For the Dark Ranger and Banshee, I think it still good to add them in. Because they both are a ditinguished part from the scourge. And for batrider....its still good as long as it has a very different ability from the troll one, but I would like something better if there are any
===
I just thinking that an apothecary is good for the race because of its uniqueness than a dark cleric. that is why i prefer them better
 

Kyrbi0

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At one point, I toyed with the idea of a sort of "Zergling" approach to the T1 Basic Melee/Ranged; basically you train "Dark Brethren" and get 2 units (Swordsman & Archer). A Forsaken version of the basic skelly warrior/archer combo would work.

Also, before the "plague-a-pult" became a thing, in order to come up with a mech, I designed a D&D-inspired "animated graveyard"; sort of like an evil earth elemental made from a graveyard's earth. Called the "Sepulchre" (coolest name evar); would be all sickly & burly, covered with tombstones & corpses... Sorta like how the NE Mountain Giant is a "nature-y" Earth Elemental, except this would be an "Undead" Earth Elemental. :p.

Not sure what kind of aerial units they'd have (not a fan of bats, myself); I always toyed with various flying Spirit beasts ("Nightwing" & "Nightshade")
 
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At one point, I toyed with the idea of a sort of "Zergling" approach to the T1 Basic Melee/Ranged; basically you train "Dark Brethren" and get 2 units (Swordsman & Archer). A Forsaken version of the basic skelly warrior/archer combo would work.

Not sure what kind of aerial units they'd have (not a fan of bats, myself); I always toyed with various flying Spirit beasts ("Nightwing" & "Nightshade")

good idea. but, i don't think that will match with the race. and foresaken are rarely seen having skeleton as a unit in their force.
Also, before the "plague-a-pult" became a thing, in order to come up with a mech, I designed a D&D-inspired "animated graveyard"; sort of like an evil earth elemental made from a graveyard's earth. Called the "Sepulchre" (coolest name evar); would be all sickly & burly, covered with tombstones & corpses... Sorta like how the NE Mountain Giant is a "nature-y" Earth Elemental, except this would be an "Undead" Earth Elemental. :p.
can you tell me what do you mean of this?
Not sure what kind of aerial units they'd have (not a fan of bats, myself); I always toyed with various flying Spirit beasts ("Nightwing" & "Nightshade")
good, maybe i can go with that.
====
how about a Plague Bomber or Plague Thrower for the siege unit?

EDIT: the official name for the new plague is Blight and they call their catapult Blight Spreader catapult
so, maybe Blight Spreader or Blight Thrower is a good one?
 
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Kyrbi0

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"Blight" is a great word, but you run into issues with the already-existing "Blight" that exists in Wc3 (the Undead build on it). You could call it the "New Plague" like WoW does, but personally I'm not a huge fan of that.

"Blight Catapult" or "Blight Spreader" isn't too bad.
 
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"Blight" is a great word, but you run into issues with the already-existing "Blight" that exists in Wc3 (the Undead build on it). You could call it the "New Plague" like WoW does, but personally I'm not a huge fan of that.

"Blight Catapult" or "Blight Spreader" isn't too bad.

yes, that what i'm thinking about for a while. but i think blight is better because new plague is too long for a name. maybe it will be good to put it on description instead
 
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bump

Btw you could also have this ol model of mine 2008y, shit:d. I can add decay animations the next week, if you are going to use this.

Also black archer is a realy not that cool model. I was going to make a pair of archers by myself this... month, might be usefull for ya:p

thanks, I will need this
 

M93

M93

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I am creating a Forsaken myself. Its basically a combination of units from a "Dark destiny" and "Curse of the Forsaken" campaigns. With little changes. This is basicaly just a sketch for the race, i started it 3 days ago.

1)I still havent disided what to do with Town Halls, probably will use a skin for Human Town halls
Worker - Harvester
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/artesain-106073/
Same like human worker except that you can only build on Blight

2)Barracks - Mausoleum
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/new-graveyard-117101/
Can generate corpses (Zombie) instead of Armory and trains 3 units
1st tier - Fallen Archer
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/darkelfarcher-61720/
Everyone makes Archers second tier. They could be first tier like Night Elven.
Marksmanship upgrade, and Eternal Servitude, which has 10% chanse to leave a ghost after it dies.
2nd tier - Mutilated Corpse [Dalaran Mutant model in world editor]
Little weaker than a Grunt. Can learn Disease Cloud. Also has attack speed bonus when its night.
3rd tier - Deathguard
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/dark-pikeman-104603/
Can learn passive life-steal.

3) House - Grave (used random grave from WE)
Gives 6 food and has Day of the Living Dead - summons a zombie for 30 seconds. 120 seconds cooldown (otherwise it would be to easy to build 20 graves and you dont need any defence)

4) Armory/Mill - Spire [Gargoyle spire from WE] same like Graveyard but cant generate corpses

5) spellcaster building - Forsaken Sanctuary
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/necrostronghold-122937/
spellcaster 1 - Banshee [same as old one]
spellcaster 2 - Apothecary
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/darkprophet-61537/
Animate Corpse (same as Animate dead - only one corpse)
? something with poison
Corpse Explosion - Explodes a corpse dealing AoE damage
Flyer 1 - Plague Rider or Ice Rider
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/northrend-skylord-62071/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/bloodelfdragonhawk-blp-166007/
what will I base my spells on depends what I chose. Or maybe he wont be caster at all.

6) Siege Workshop - Sepulcher
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/stableyard-107657/
shop unit/Flyer 2 Obsidian Statue/Destroyer (unchanged)
siege unit Meat Wagon
same as the old one, only without exhume corpses and with a Forsaken Plague - more DPS than Disease Cloud, but hurts Undead units also. Can be switched between Disease Cloud and Plague
Maybe will add another siege unit (Melee maybe?)

7)Tower - Death Tower (model from WE)
Can change damage type to Chaos after an upgrade.

8) Ownage building - Research Labs
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/armory-50075/
Has many tech-upgrades, including a Forsaken Plague, Magic Immunity for Flesh Golems, Advanced Necromacy for Apothecary (Animates 2 corpses but spell costs more), upgrade that slightly reduces mana cost for Possesion etc.
Ownage unit - Flesh Golem. You dont build him in a building. You make him with merging two Mutilated corpses. Combine is castable only if you have Research Labs. Has Devour, can learn Cannibalize and Spell Immunity

9) Altar and heroes - Altar of Torment
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/chaos-altar-terror-48265/
Dark ranger - Unchanged
Dreadlord - with Varimathras spells
Death Dealer
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/hero_deathknight-92295/
Warrior Hero
Grand Apothecary
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=109711
Inteligence Hero
 
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I am creating a Forsaken myself. Its basically a combination of units from a "Dark destiny" and "Curse of the Forsaken" campaigns. With little changes. This is basicaly just a sketch for the race, i started it 3 days ago.

Wow! thanks a lot man, this will help me so much
 

M93

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http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/curse-forsaken-228049/

Dark Destiny or Rekindling of Life was on THW one or two years ago. But it was erased and I cant find the original.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/forsaken-campaign-120858/

The finished campaign had lot of bugs, the dialogue was horrible, but it had an interesting techtree for Scarlet Crusade and the Forsaken plus there was a Undead hero called general Little Timmy, and yes he is a undead boy. :grin:
This is a beta, I didnt check it, so i don't know how early it is.
 

Kyrbi0

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... Did you just play through those?

For ridiculous craziness, a "Plague Wyrm/Drake/etc" (-> "contagion dragon"; green drake or whatever polluted by the Plague) isn't a horrible idea... Well, ok, with the in-game Frost Wyrm, and with an already existing "Plague Rider" (assuming you use that like I will :p), maybe it isn't such a good idea (but it sounds cool).

Some kind of heavy-duty Spirit-beast might be in order (-> banshee/ghost theme), or some other local Azerothian flying beast you can corrupt with the plague (Hawks? Gryphons? I-don't-know-what-lives-there?...)
 
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... Did you just play through those?

no, i just play the Curse of the Forsaken one

For ridiculous craziness, a "Plague Wyrm/Drake/etc" (-> "contagion dragon"; green drake or whatever polluted by the Plague) isn't a horrible idea... Well, ok, with the in-game Frost Wyrm, and with an already existing "Plague Rider" (assuming you use that like I will :p), maybe it isn't such a good idea (but it sounds cool).
this sounds good, maybe I can use this model or maybe this model

Some kind of heavy-duty Spirit-beast might be in order (-> banshee/ghost theme), or some other local Azerothian flying beast you can corrupt with the plague (Hawks? Gryphons? I-don't-know-what-lives-there?...)
this may also be good, I can't think of what creature good for it
 
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Valky'rs anyone? oh and make the race more like the zerg swarm (power in numbers),
oh and they should have apothecaries because apothecaries were needed for healing units cuz the undead dont regenerate when they are outside the blight.

As I said that the timeline is before WotLK, therefore I can't add Valkyrs here

For the zerg swarm that thing maybe more suit for the scourge, as the forsaken had only limited number of undead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for being inactive for a long time, since I had to prepare for my exam
But please give me some ideas for the building, since I think it is the hardest one
I might not be able to reply, I will review your ideas after all my exams finished

Thanks
 

Kyrbi0

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9,137
As I said that the timeline is before WotLK, therefore I can't add Valkyrs here
While you may not be able (the same way I refuse to use WoW stuff) to use it directly, it would be more than advisable to 'sneak' it in. Use good ideas anywhere they come from; sufficiently Warcraft-III-ized, of course. If nothing else, it will be seen as a retro-active reference. :p
 
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