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Modelling & Animation Mini-Contests ~ Less Is More ~ The Results

Discussion in 'Modeling & Animation' started by Pharaoh_, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. Pharaoh_

    Pharaoh_

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    Please, do not become offensive. If you have any arguments regarding his capabilities as a modeller and by extension as someone unable to judge a modelling contest, refer to me. You were accusing him earlier of subjectivity and you are now victimizing him under your subjective opinion.
    In my humble opinion, I do not see anywhere how his capabilities as a modeller interfered or even impeded him to provide efficient reviews nor I can spot lack of experience in his statements. Therefore, the only thing that should concern you as a contestant is the review itself.

    Additionally, I want to mention something about the 'subjectivity' rule that everyone seems to throw in discussions a lot lately. Regardless of what you think, subjectivity exist and should exist. This is a reason why we have two judges instead of one. Despite the technical details that are bound to objectivity rules, the rest is totally up to the judge's point of view. Each judge has a different background, experience and stimuli than another and this is exactly why we may see many variations and differences among their reviews.
     
  2. JesusHipster

    JesusHipster

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    By the way in my opinion -Supa is the winner. No offence or anything, but his model is better then others. And high particle emiter count doesn't mean the effects are good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  3. WhiteDeath

    WhiteDeath

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    :goblin_yeah: I won!
    :goblin_good_job: to everybody.
    To SuPa- :vw_wtf: why all the hate towards my model that is very undignified, UgoUgo's model also had more points than yours how about some hating for him huh?
    Seriously this is just a contest its not like your life ends just because you did not win. There is no shame in loosing if you gave it your best, there is however shame in loosing without dignity.
    P.S. Notice how I did not rip on your model(hard work) because it would be demeaning.
     
  4. SuPa-

    SuPa-

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    WhiteDeath, I don't care about winning and I don't hate your model. I was using your model as comparison to mine to try and prove points to Deolrin because of the drastic difference he made in our scores, but I apologize for any offense. Your model is in no way bad and I quite like it.
     
  5. General Frank

    General Frank

    3D Modeling Moderator

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    Then please, for the sake of having balls and dignity, cut the bullshit.
     
  6. Marcos DAB

    Marcos DAB

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    This.
     
  7. Pyramidhe@d

    Pyramidhe@d

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    do you guys realize how long this laptop takes to boot up? a long time, i assure you. and when's the last time i've posted here? a long time, i assure you. i got linked this from another chat and i HAD to come here to show some third party perspective.

    main evidence-placed here as anti-retcon


    Now. From the top

    My rant
    Animation 6/10
    Right from the start. Those animations? Definitely not 6. You know what 5 is? it is when it just barely considered average. Functional. Something that just gets rated as "Is Useful". 6 is something that does a little bit better but not much. 7 is an okay with a positive tone. 8 is good, 9 is great and 10 is goddamn great. Straight off. without real analysis, i would just say 7. Could say 8 after further inspection. Some animations could TAD bit more organic. But I wouldnt call them stiff.
    Unlike warcraft models with weapons that are legth of their body, these things hold small one handed weapons. And why would someone use a small one handed weapon? cos they are light and fast. Do you see the correlation? Now, I think what you were MEANT to say is that there is barely any swingback time. Cos I've compared the actual swing speed with a footman. The actual speed of the motion comparable. What the animation lacks is a considerable swingback, both before and after the actual attack which gives the impression that the whole animation is super fast. Don't just say the animation is super fast. Explain it.
    Considering death animation. These things are meant to be cannon fodders. They are meant to be killed by the thousands. For something like that, you dont need master grade death animations. They just need to die. They just need to fall down. They dont need a death gasp and an lunge and a twitch and a seizure. You should have judged the model according to its purpose and nothing more.

    UV/Textures 5/10
    Now...here is what I like to call a "too good for Warcraft 3" situation. A criterion that always pops up is "is it warcraft looking" which defeats the whole purpose of a contest. In a contest, you want to look as best as you want. But by current time standards, to look like warcraft, you want to look as crappy as possible. Now was "fitting in to the warcraft 3" an actual criterion this time around? It usually is. Lemme see the original contest thread...well. I was wrong. Looks like there wasnt even a set criterion in the contest post. Anyways, that aside. The contest only asks for a low poly model. No style, no genre, no type of model(atttachment, unit, effect). So it makes little sense that you penalised for not looking warcraft. I know you argued with me time and time again that this is a warcraft 3 modding website. And time and time again, I tell you that warcraft 3 is in the past. In the dust. People need to head to the future. None of this "look like warcraft 3" nonsense. You need to understand that Warcraft 3 is merely a stepping stone towards something bigger and better. And to tie down someone's ability at this level is idiotic. Moving on from that. Yeah, the team colour is terrible. But ya. once again, a fodder unit. Probably dont need team colour cos its going to be a shitty NPC. The team colour is more like an afterthought with these types of things. Also, a different colour placement defeats the concept. Which is the Hobbit cave goblin. If the thing had shoulderpads, it breaks lotr lore and therefore becomes useless cos as you mentioned, its not Warcrafty. You cannot penalise here for following the original concept here and then penalise again in the part for creativity.

    Creativity 6/10
    What I just said on top applies here.

    Mechanics
    did you mean to say..."gutz" bone animation? The point that this is a fodder unit once again applies here. do you know what happens if a footman model keeps on dying by the truck-loads? Bad things. Corpse models actually do count as models. And they take processing powers. Less is more, once again. And not to mention that it adds to the overall poly count. Poly count is 394. To decrease the quality of the main model so he could have a corpse model would have not added much value to the model.

    Effects 0/5
    Now here is my real concern. Considering that this contest didnt have a criteria, how was one suppose to account for effects? Ghostthruster for example. Made an attachment. Save for an axe on fire, how often do you see attachments with effects added on top? Less is more. Do you even grasp the concept behind that saying? By not putting unnecessary things, you un-clutter and you achieve the biggest amount of good with the least amount of resources. He COULD have added particle emitter. but really, did he need to?

    There is also this for Ghostthruster.
    "Animation : Although the model has no animations whatsoever, that is to be expected of an attachment model. 3/5"
    Why is it then, when an attachment is not really expected to have effects, is he penalised for not having effects? This applies to Supa- as well.

    --------------------------------
    What I see as an overarching problem is this. supa- has gotten 6/10 for his animation because according to the context of his own model, it wasnt organic enough. Whitedeath got 10/10 for his animation because according to the context of his own model, it was good enough. ie. its anims were for mechanical so is good enough. However, supa- then gotten 5/10 according to the context of fitting in to Warcraft 3. You dont switch between the contexts of the criterias. You either judge the model on its own merits or you tell people and then judge it against a chosen criteria/context. You cant do both without telling. Telling before hand is the most important part.

    other than that. deolrin's judging on supa-: meh. 3/5 May be useful.
    --------------------------------
    i wish there was an easy way to view on the models. for a more even balanced view. but going through every thread pages? aint nobody got time for dat. Frankster's screenshots were at least considerate. which is good.



    I think why everyone is telling supa- to basically stfu is because no one is judging the judges. and supa- hasnt made himself very clear on the first time around which just made everyone edgey.

    if deolrin was better modeller than supa-, then getting a criticism from him will be understandable. Its like as if an architect student who just graduated say that the Eiffel Tower is a heap of junk. With that aside. Being able to judge and being able to model is a two separate thing. For example, Frankster's models are rated as among the good ones. Hell. He is a wll known wc3 modding vet that has been here from beginning to now. But that of his judging is kinda crap. Not gonna lie. Should really go in to more details next time for each category. I've had someone give me a review a bit more worse than this before and i just flat out told them that it sucked.

    I dont know. last time i was here, you were not a modeller. its like how i cant tell DSG that his coding sucks. nor would i be able to tell if it sucked or not. Its not a personal insult to you. It's just how it is. And if more of the old modellers were here, the ones who deolrin-shall-not-name being among them, they would prolly tell you the same thing. It's a credibility issue, really. That's why we always got modellers to host.

    i dunno...losing unfairly sounds pretty undignifying. and only a person without balls will just take it like it is.

    PS: i've re-read mentions of a criteria again... and i still cant find it. maybe i've missed it somewhere. where is it?

    by the way....where was the voting for this?

    PPS: better sleep. may have mistakes. will rectify tomorrow...perhaps.
     
  8. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Delicious contention.

    It seems like the criterion of "for Warcraft 3" or "not" is a big sticking point here. While I side with Deolrin (it's a Wc3modding website) (for purely selfish reasons; I like to mod for Wc3, I want to see/have resources that can fit in Wc3, etc), without it being stated somewhere, it's kinda hard to tell.
     
  9. Pharaoh_

    Pharaoh_

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    Not that I took your statements the wrong way nor I am offended by them, at all, however I wanted to back me up nonetheless.

    "if deolrin was better modeller than supa-, then getting a criticism from him will be understandable"

    This has nothing to do with who is better than whom. A proper judge is someone that would give criticism, in a creative way, about the technical and creative aspects of the object that they are going to judge. It's the opinion that we value most of all, not the person, because the latter becomes too subjective. I could not possibly find a judge that would be great for everyone, because everyone will have a different opinion on the judge as a person.

    Therefore, the output analysis will be universally given, regardless of what people think about the judge. Also, to get things straight, if I were Deolrin, I would certainly be offended by any of the accusations that were addressed at this late hour, granted that he has also been asked to join the staff as a Model Moderator.

    As for the judging criteria, I am trying not to repeat mistakes of the past and I really consider that the latest judges emerge with much more creative reviews (not that I didn't find older judges creative, but at least not all of them). By creativity I mean giving suggestions on top of the criticism. So, as you mentioned, being a judge is a different thing than being able to model. Proof of experience is enough for me to evaluate the potential of a judge, along with the way one judges. If he had no experience whatsoever, I wouldn't assign him anyway, but just because you or SuPa- don't find his art of higher quality, it doesn't exclude him from being an effective judge either.

    Also, I find it unfair that you basically "edit" Deolrin's reviews, just because you have a different opinion than his. If you wanted to judge, you could only throw me a pm. However, given that you are a bit inactive in the forums (a reason why you don't know that Mini-Contests have no polls for the public), I can only see your statements stirring up further fuss. You want my opinion? I also thought that SuPa-'s model was a clear winner, but that's only because I have no experience to make out the technical details, but really, you give criteria for everything; first being who is deemed qualified to judge, second being who is the qualified modeller and third who should be the host. If you were around, you would notice that without me hosting, there would be no modelling contest at all -mostly because the most active modellers are gone-, which leaves no space for focusing on every possible detail about the "perfect" candidates.

    Returning to the criteria thing, mini-contests are much more flexible in terms of criteria than the Arena contests. The judges are able to follow a certain pattern (Arena's), if they are uncertain of pointing things out themselves, along with giving their very own touches in their reviews (e.g. add criteria that they think they are important). It's funny when you actually speak of warcraftish look, when it has always been a criterion -and from your experience as an Icon moderator, you should know that to your very core-. As for the fast animations, you may bring up a very considerable arguments about the light weight of the weapons, but you also forget that for the anatomy they refer to (a giant cave troll - You may also argue about the actual race of the model, which may be a goblin, but from my stimuli all these years from movies and games alike, I find this to be a troll; Lord of the Rings has had an almost identical concept, while League of Legends also features a troll who is more magnificent in size, compared to human models), they should be slower, given that the moves of such a creature, compared to a small footman would be a lot less flexible.
    "Considering that this contest didnt have a criteria, how was one suppose to account for effects?"; I don't see why you only address that to Deolrin, when Frankster added it in his own reviews either. From past contests, one should very well know that effects are taken into consideration. Particle emitters was a suggestion, an observation, if you want, not some mandatory expectation.

    Finally, I would want to mention that I am not trying to get into a discussion about the way everything is run, neither I am trying to prove you wrong or anything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  10. I3lackDeath

    I3lackDeath

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    Why exactly is the discussion augmented like this?
    Suck it up, take the results as they are, and move on.

    SuPa-'s abilities surpass what Warcraft 3 can handle - it's fit for completely different settings and therefore, expectations. Good for him, and he is very well aware of what he can do. (Note that this does NOT compare his skills to those of the other contestants. It's a statement of facts.)

    We are by far no "professional" modelling site, but we try our best to support everyone in various aspects, and this was a mini-contest, for god's sake.
    Getting worked up over something this trivial is beyond me.

    Maybe you (generally speaking, not talking to anyone specificly) have been "misjudged". Maybe all of this seems unfair to you.
    But: focus on the less trivial, and thus more important, aspects.
    If you know you are good at something, why give other people's "judgings" so much power over you?
    They are anything but ultimate - 10 judges will come up with 10 different results and reasons.
    Take whatever feedback/opinion you are provided with, and try to include them into your thought process. Improve, evolve, both artistically aswell as a person.

    THIS should be the essence of (especially Hive) (Mini-)Contests, or at least a big part of it.
     
  11. HappyCockroach

    HappyCockroach

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    EXCUSE ME BUT I WILL JUDGE THE JUDGES.

    Both made a judging that left quite too much to desire, specially Deolrin.


    Judging effects doesn't mean to judge how MANY effects are there. (and I said this a couple of times already, to Deolrin directly) It means ONLY to judge - do this model is good enough regarding its effects?. Then it might be:

    - Yes, it has good-looking and suitable effects
    - Yes, although it has little effects it doesn't need them
    - No, it is overdone and crowded, too many and too bad quality.
    - No, it lacks effects therefore looks empty and disconnected.

    PS: lol, I didn't see the page 2. The discussion was took way farther than I expected, I'll post nevertheless...
     
  12. GhostThruster

    GhostThruster

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    why does everyone care so much? like supa, your honour may be hurt, but fuck it. you only lost 40 rep. if you really want, ill rep u ten times so u can have it. plus dont listen to debode, hes dumb. debode, dont listen to people who call u dumb, judging is meant to be subjective and i think u did a sound job. pyramidhead, of all the things to come back for, you choose a minimodelling contest with like 5 contestants. i feel like u came back only to attack debode at the command of the c00l gang at deviantart, whom ive seen before argue with debode all the time. i agree on some points u raise, like the 'for warcraft' criteria imposed by judges, but the rest seems as subjective as debode's judging itself. im not biased nor do i like debode, in fact i got second last in judging, so plz dont call me a kiss ass or anything.
     
  13. Pyramidhe@d

    Pyramidhe@d

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    well. to be quite honest, i had heaps of opportunities where i could have just slipped back in. like the thread discussing all those other threads and users that somehow dont exist anymore. and new changes being made, new mods being placed. but thats mostly administration and i didnt have business with the administration. but i do have businesses with modelling. and a contest nonetheless. as for the c00l gang. no one remembers this place anymore and i just got linked here by a third party showing all the butthurt on both sides. i didnt think anyone was supporting supa-'s side of view so i decided to pitch in as a fellow modeller whom i have greate respect for his skills. its no c00l gang agenda here. just my own "professional" agenda.

    and that is all correct. no denying it. but people are people. and the judged would swallow the critique a bit better if they thought the judge was someone superior to themselves. i am merely pointing this out as a psychological point of view. i dont let a homeless man judge my behaviour, i dont let my neighbour judge my behaviour. i let god judge my behaviour. (as a note. no. i am not religious and this is just hypothetically speaking)

    and psychologically speaking, it would be in the best interest for the community if indeed someone really really good at modelling judged. it promotes confidence in the authoritive position(the host/mods) as well as the system and thus, it promotes further contests to take place. like all things, consumers take to products if they are confident in it. i know i said good modeller != good judge and vice versa. but a good judge may not be the best judge for the situations. that's why frankster is an appropriate judge.

    but we've always(or at least i hope it was always) STATED the criterias. people needs solid statements. you cant just imply something and expect people to know that they will be penalised for not putting on an effect. what happens to new people? to younger modellers who never went in a contest? its not just new people. what's to say people dont forget. you cant just assume that everyone knows what they are doing. you need to cover all bases so shit like this doesnt have an excuse to pop up. why? cos people obviously spend time and effort on these things. and the chances are, people would get offended if they deem the justifications for low scores to be not enough. its not the score that pisses people off. it is the feeling of being unjustly ripped off(+the fact that they lost. but its the unjust ripping that's the main part). having a list of desired things is also an indirect way to make people better themselves. make sure they know all the options. and is also a checklist. i follow criteria checklist when modelling normally, pretty much in that order show. mesh, animation, texture, mechanics/effects. just makes sure i dont leave anything that could be utilised.

    good. i hope he does get offended. and really angry at me. and i hope being angry pushes him into not stagnate his modelling skills. i hope he angrily churns out some models. if he gets angry about this and decides to better himself, then its doubly admirable for him. its not a good way to encourage someone. but it may be a necessary way.

    unrelated to the actual contest
    something unrelated to this contest
    the title says it is a goblin. trolls in the hobbit also have a different physique(lack of muscle mass and a more prominent gut) than the model and from looking, i would call this more of a goblin. your point on the thing being a less flexible than human does bring up a good point though
     
  14. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    (To All) It might be ideal, it might not. I've found that in the artistic fields, often just about anyone can tell you what's wrong with a piece of art (especially if it's the human form; difficult to draw, easy to detect).
    Then again, maybe that's just with the human form. I certainly agree the better a modeller is, the more ideal of a judge he is. But laypeople can catch a lot of errors too; so long as they are meticulous.

    This.
    All the applicable criteria must be stated at the beginning of the contest, and in plain text for all to read & follow. It's ok to add/remove things if the course of the contest demands it, IMO; just let everyone know. We cannot be graded on things that are not included.

    Yeah, Trolls and Goblins and Ogres and all that in Wc3 are very different from how they are presented in many other fantasy venues (such as LotR). That's not a problem; just say the one you are making (in this case, a Cave Goblin from probably LotR).
     
  15. Deolrin

    Deolrin

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    I am very much unwilling to have this conversation. I'll respond to Pyramidhe@d, and perhaps a few other people in short.
    If any of you would like to discuss this further, please contact me via private message or visitor message.


    I find these animations a definite "6", perhaps even "5". Since you're so fond of comparing SuPa's model to the footman, I'd say SuPa- did a far worse job than whoever animated the Footman, back in the day. I believe that the animations were static and inorganic, and lacked any interesting factors. Fodder or not, pretty much every model in WC3 has at least one semi-interesting animation. The Footman drinks water from his flask. The Grunt looks around and scratches his arse. The Peon stretches. The Villager scratches his head. SuPa-'s had nothing of the sort.

    On the subject of judging the attack animation, I suppose you are right. I was rather tired and wanted to finish writing my judging quickly. It really is swingback time that the model lacks, rather than the animation being fast. I'm sorry for not making that clear.
    As for the death animation. You keep bringing up the footman. Did you compare the death animation on SuPa-'s model to the one on the footman model? The Footman's death takes longer. It's more interesting. He falls more slowly and dramatically, and it actually looks like he was impacting something. It's a full 3 seconds, versus SuPa-'s half a second.
    Putting the Footman as the ultimate 'cannon fodder' unit in WC3, SuPa-'s death animation is inadequate by comparison.

    The missing criterion in the contest post was something I was personally confused about as well. I specifically asked Pharaoh_ for a proper criterion(For fairness' sake) in a private message, and Pharaoh_ delivered. From the writing style, and thanks to a few very vague memory, I am assuming the criterion itself was written by, possibly, anarchianbedlam, back in the day. Of course, I could be entirely wrong. Regrettably, I have removed the private messages regarding the contest in my inbox, since it's pretty much full and those seemed like the least important messages around. Rest assured, however, the criterion DID mention how well the model fits in-game in at least one of its criteria. Pharaoh_, if would be much appreciated if you could find the criterion in your "Sent Items" folder or elsewhere and post it here. Thanks in advance. ^^

    I've already responded to that in one of my first posts. I've said all I have to say about the whole "fits in WC3" topic.

    This is a really stupid way to think. Footmen, Grunts, Archers, Ghouls - all cannon fodder units, all have very obvious TC placements. One could argue that a few creep units don't have teamcolor at all, but that is a different subject altogether. In my honest opinion, I think that the artists simply ran out of time, and the less well-made models in Warcraft 3 are a result of re-using old textures and artwork, as well as hastily thought-of ideas. I've had experience with artists who worked on Blizzard's RTS games, and I know, for a fact, that sometimes they have to cut a lot of planned features off because of time limits. (The Zerg evolutions in SC2: Heart of the Swarm were to be a lot more unique, for example, but due to time restrictions, they had to cut a few edges and made simple pallet-swaps and minor changes to the models instead).
    The point here is... The TC placement was obviously an oversight by SuPa-. It was bad planning. He got SOME teamcolor done, and therefore, I believe he could've done it better. Hell, a ragged shirt would've done a much better job, without breaking the immersion\"LotR lore" too much.

    But teamcolored shoulderpads would've helped the WarCraftiness factor immensely. There's nothing more "WarCraft" than massive, unrealistic shoulderpads made from a suspicious colorful material. In my honest opinion, how well the model fits in the game matters more than how well it represents the intended source material, unless it's made with a specific project or goal in mind.

    Yes, I know exactly what happens. He dies and leaves behind a proper corpse. The same as EVERY OTHER applicable model in Warcraft 3. The model itself being there in large amounts takes more processing power than the model's corpse being there in large amounts.
    There's really nothing to argue about here. A proper corpse is a part of the "Mechanics" criteria. In fact, in my opinion, it's the SINGLE most important part of the "Mechanics" criteria.

    Honestly, I myself consider this a major problem with the original concept thread in the first place. No criteria means no idea what you're stepping into. No idea what you're going to be judged for.
    However... Effects have ALWAYS been a criteria, in pretty much every single modeling contest. There is no reason to believe that this contest is any different.
    Now, the way I personally see the "Effects" criteria is that it's a sort of "bonus" five points, nothing you have to do, but it definitely can affect your judging, and giving your model various special effects definitely does give you an advantage over other modelers who don't. In retrospect, though, I do realize that is kind of dumb. In the future, I'll try and be more objective about this criteria in particular.

    Different criteria. Animations and effects. Having no animations is okay for an attachment model. I still gave GhostThruster a 0\5 in "Effects". Same silly reasoning as above. I did kind of screw up here. I apologize.

    ...Because I really, really liked them. They felt just... Great, in general. SuPa-'s didn't. I gave that reasoning in the judging. As a matter of fact, WhiteDeath's animations DIDN'T feel robotic to me, at all. In fact, all I could think of was the organic goblin inside. I think WhiteDeath's model has a sort of "powersuit" concept behind it, rather than a robotic unit. This is evident in the Portrait's global sequence(which, by the way, also added towards the 10\10 in "Animations").

    And, to be honest, I did as well. That is, when I saw the screenshots of every single model in the contest. I just told myself, "Well. No real competition here. I think SuPa- won this one".
    But, then... I opened the model in Magos. And then I viewed it in-game. And, alas, SuPa-'s model now seems to me more like a really crappy book with a sweet-looking cover. WhiteDeath's attention to details and creative thinking is what really made him win, in my eyes. In my opinion, that guy's a genius, and his model is a masterpiece, even if it isn't nearly as externally impressive as SuPa-'s model.

    Honestly, this is where I'll disagree with you. SuPa-'s model is most definitely a goblin, like the ones in the Hobbit. Goblins are famously very small - human-sized goblins are probably considered giants. This fellow is most definitely not a troll - he is too thin and lightweight to be one. Trolls are meant to be fat and bulky, and full of muscle mass. This fellow here isn't.

    You raise a fair point, and I will consider this, should I judge another contest. Thank you, and I apologize for the current situation.
    Honestly, I actually originally wanted to do something similar to what you're saying, but I just felt really strange about giving models with no effects whatsoever a "3\5" or a "5\5" just because they don't need any. I think further contests should be clearer about whether a model is meant to be a unit, a hero, an attachment, a building or a doodad. Different types of models require different judging points of view - for instance, in this case, attachments and doodads simply had no chance the moment a unit entered the fray.

    Absolutely agreed here. This is something that really confused me when I agreed to judge. In fact, it's probably also partially my fault. As soon as Pharaoh_ sent me the criterion, I should've posted it on the thread. I know this wouldn't have exactly helped, it being after the event, but at least it would've helped prevent some of the arguing that's going on right now.

    Well, I think there's a certain standard fantasy "idea" for those races. WC3 makes a notable exception with trolls here, but in general, trolls are big and hairy, goblins are small and cheeky, and ogres are big and brutish.
     
  16. Pyramidhe@d

    Pyramidhe@d

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    you misunderstand me. the reason why i pick the footman is because it has good animations. the details you mentioned are the exact type of stuff that will get me to rate animation 8, 9 or even 10. supa- fell behind the really interesting details you mentioned and hence, he falls short of 8. the footman model, for a fodder, is actually quite excellent and above the expectations. i know, and you know, that i've always said warcraft models are shitty in terms of mesh and texture. but almost never for anims.

    i agree its an oversight. but i guess i

    i am fine with you giving the score 10 cos that's...i dont know. i really dont have a problem with it. as i cant see whitedeath's animations, i may only speculate. what i am pointing out is that speculating that it is indeed a 10, giving supa- a 6 seems to be a big ass gap. my concern here is that whether a 40% jump in score is justified. now i dont know how you assign scores, but i always thought using a bell curve as a sort of a standard is a good thing. meaning, to go from 5 to 6 is easy, 6 to 7 is exponentially harder and 7 to 8 is even more harder. 9 and 10 are kind of a blurred line.

    umm...i was gonna say on a shittier machine, the screen and lighting goes all fucked up. maybe it just happens to me...the point is. a lot of stuff on screen for unnecessary reasons could only mean a bad thing

    nothing to...apologise? i mean, you did what you had to do and i do what i think i have to do. we are all just arguing(debating if you want a better word) here. you just followed criteria and etc and i am fine with that. its just that the main problem is that these criteria were not public. i mean. it make perfect sense to give a model a 0 for having no effect. but it also makes perfect sense to not penalise for not putting when not needed. it really goes both ways. and hence the need for public clarification.

    well. i'm glad we agree on that part. aaaand...i think thats pretty much all i wanted to argue about really.
     
  17. SuPa-

    SuPa-

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    I don't really care much about this anymore, but calling WhiteDeath's model a "masterpiece" is a huge overstatement. I could make the same exact thing in a day. You're really overstretching his achievement. It's a simple model with easily done animations and uses an uncreative and obvious pick of an in-game texture. Having said that, I like the model a lot and think that it's useful. Does it show any technical modeling skill or challenge? No. You don't know what you're talking about. But how could you? Have you ever animated a unit model? Or textured one? Or fully modeled one? 70% of what you do is done for you by Blizzard, Deolrin. Harsh, but completely true.

    I didn't spend a huge amount of time on my animations, and I'm perfectly fine with that. The attack animations, to me, look fine with a weapon attached and they were designed to have a weapon attached. And I really like the walk fast animation, which I prefer as his primary movement. The other walk is on the derpy side, but not as derpy as WhiteDeath's walk on his, that's for sure. I don't necessarily think that my animations are poorly made or inorganic. They are, on the other hand, uninventive.
     
  18. TaShadan

    TaShadan

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    There is no need to be bad mannered. Although the model is excellent the animations are not and the model is not wc3ish. Also the teamcolors are lacking. And yes iam a noob.
     
  19. SuPa-

    SuPa-

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    I'm not being bad mannered, I'm being honest. And honesty isn't always nice.
     
  20. WhiteDeath

    WhiteDeath

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    OK than be honest and rate your own model if you have the time, I am just curious how much you would give yourself. Do it with explanations like Deolrin did so it is clear why you give a certain score.
    And again be honest when you rate.