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[Role Playing Game] Memento Mori

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Talavaj, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yes it is. As far as resources go, there aren't any in the actual resources section but some are here. I'm not very fond of the THW's resource submission system.
    As for maps, I made some long time ago but never released them for whatever reason. (usually mostly because they were impulse thing born after whatever thing I liked at the moment)
    Among those .. were a campaing with a few functional maps, gothic 2 based map, arena kind of map based on Sacred, and a bunch of wow inspired maps. (and much more crap that was too vague to remember)
    Neither made it out into the public, I only played some of them with my friends on lan.
     
  2. BlueSaint

    BlueSaint

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    Oh, okay. You should commercialize this imo. But if you want to go 100% legal then I think you can't.

    Edit:
    What ;D
     
  3. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    I personally would not do that. It would be awkward + there are other ways to make money.
    This is just like selling items to a wow addict!
     
  4. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Nah, of course I cannot monetize unless I'd pull upheaval arts and ask people to kickstart me. Which I won't because I'm not a self-important douche and can realistically evaluate the amount of time and effort that goes into making a mod.

    Unfortunately, I'll take my leave following the completion of this mod. Not because I won't like modding for wc3 anymore but because I'd prefer to spend my free time more effectively, ideally on something I can actually monetize.
    My current job is quite exhausting and time consuming so I'm looking for a better one in a field of my interest which will probably end up being working online from my home.
    I'm hoping to make this transition in about 4 months or so, unless I find a really good full-time offer. (or a well-paid contract work)
    Part of the future stuff may include unity 3d, which I just started crash testing recently. It won't be making actual projects, just assets for them.

    On another note, the vertex paint displacement water looks really kick ass too. I think I found the final solution, it will only take some extra details to iron out like the foam and underwater refractions. (I'm hoping to do those with a trick with neodex which should be capable of doing it from what I understand)
     
  5. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    Oh now your leaving to! I feel the same way and shall also leave after I finish the 3 episodes. To be honest it's too hard to give ups since there's a lot of ideas rushing through my head and I've started to become addicted to this stuff. I'll probably still be around after I finish with it, still making some extra stuff. There has been a lot of tech discovered so far, you or me should neatly arrange a "wikipedia" tutorial on this stuff for others to "come...if they still come, apparently they still do". It could most probably be you since I have attention problems and you write more eloquently than little old caveman me.
    My map is beginning to scare me so much that I don't see it as a wc3 map anymore but as a world filled with small rooms that each contain new tech, I think you probably feel the same...
    Yeah it's hard to find a proper job, am facing the same problems with a family partially in my care, I'm partially in theirs. In the meantime still moving, continuing my existence with small things.
    Working on wc3 modding has boosted my motivation level quite a lot, so much that I have to move to more serious stuff. Not that I'm not doing serious stuff but I dont do it with the same motivation. Seeing Talavage (got is wrong - Talavaj ) work was another factor. In worst case scenario I won't have any occupations and will start testing how different textures look with parallax without doing anything productive however my family will make sure that that doesn't happen.

    On another note, can you get anymore better at making water? I am working on water to but It's not as great as yours, only 2 animated with scribble cel.
    On a different note, I tried a little something with the parallax grass like implementing it in the actual wc3 terrain but in came the wc3 limitation resulting in the destruction of what I thought was a great Ideea. Unfortunately can only be used as planes like water or exported terrains. Used only 10 planes and a bigger distance between them obviously with blend (helps it look fuzzy) but it doesn't look good from a side, looks superb from a sky view which makes it just perfect for wc3 and would deserve a pack. Rpg fans will find this useful.
    I'm having this vision of a super real picture of a old building in which I am combining parallax with bump for walls and bricks and finale adding some parallax grass for details in crack and ocluded areas over grassy textures. This is going to be my first attempt on a realistic image.

    Plane Grass
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    No, the planes are same height. I used blend on them and it almost looks like the original texture, you only need to have a biger density and a closer distance 0.01 - 0,02.
    They look different height because I baked the Bump in the diffuse and it's the same texture all the way.

    Sorry for getting your name wrong all this time.
    -
    I was looking at my reputation and was wondering who is this Talavaj, resembles Travaj. When I got on his profile I got a SHOCK!
     
  6. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    (Bump)
    I almost successful blended parallax with bumping. By making multiple testes I achieved some crazy and weird results. Apparently I was wrong when I said that the mat don't blend well with add and modulate. The trick is to give every material a priority plane from 0 to 3,4 etc. I mixed transparent + blend , Modulate + add and got a more bumpy surface than the regular bump + plus a nice specular. It's not perfect because some textures aren't working as I thought and I haven't tried modulate x2 yet. I also forgot to mention in the previous post that using blend + a additive layer on top makes the paralax appear unified and dif elevated. (Like in the picture with the cube above). Because in some cases the blend seems fuzzy I also got a weird motion blur efect.
    Your regular Parallax with transparent would be the best choice to use since it has no problems with fog however the combi would also be good for close ups and in obscure areas.
    Some samples coming...
    The water Is very awesome, no clue how you did it.
     
  7. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Leaving?!!
    Wish you could stay, but good luck when you do. Hope you'll still have time to stay in contact with all of us, and you can keep me posted about your current activities.
     
  8. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Hello hello Bumpdate~
    I was still working this week (2 days longer than I was supposed to) so no significant updates have been made.

    Although I have stumbled upon another trick.
    I speak of cell shaded outline effect (think Borderlands). The trick looks nearly identical to the real shader and shows outline in all outer edges (and none on the edges inside the shape).
    Obviously, the outline is displayed properly as the object rotates. The drawbacks are that it is a bit wonky to setup on distorted and complex meshes.
    It is actually really simple, hahah. I reckon others used it before.

    And looks like you'd expect, as seen here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3aJNMj6bvE
    [​IMG]


    past bump

    I have been working lately and I'm tired as hell hence no updates.
    I was messing around with the water a bit more, the form and dynamics are great but transparency ended up being way more troublesome than I anticipated.

    I can't find an efficient way to keep both scribble and transparency in the model. And I can't have one without the other aaarghh.
    My only hope is to make the model a dummy unit and change the vertex transparency in game and see how that will work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  9. BlinkBoy

    BlinkBoy

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    Just copy the original mesh, scale up to normals, inverse triangles and give it a black unshaded material.

    It's an old technique, Anime maps use it on their ripped models all the time.
     
  10. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yeah, pretty much. I just used the shell (or push) modifier instead of duplicating the model then detached the outer shells. (because I wasn't sure if it can be done properly by just scaling stuff)
    I stumbled upon it while making a nicer selection graphics for interactive objects (like trash cans doors etc) and inventory items in the mod.
    I used to make a glow on it manually but decided this looks neater.

    So the selection glow looks like this now:
    All interactive things and loot will be highlighted like this when you are close, I prefer it over blindly aiming with your mouse around doodads wondering which one is clickable.

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, I supposed so. Did they though ? I didn't really see it used much, which is a shame because I feel it fits the smooth texturing very nice.
    It is also bound to look good on an animated character I reckon.
    As a matter of fact do you have any links ? I did more testing with it and it just looks stunning, I would really love to see "cell shaded" visuals in maps.
    I'm almost tempted to xD put it into the mod, but I'm afraid it won't fit the rest of the visuals.

    Here is Manoo's model (the protagonist) with extra cell layer, for example.
    [​IMG]

    I also just decided to use faux parallax wherever applicable, it just looks so much neater than a flat texture.
    This one example has one half a flat texture and the other raised with parallax about 6 layers in height and fake occlusion using low resolution black drop shadow as blend under the transparent layer top.
    Not ideal in the example, as the texture quality is shit but you get the idea.
    It is probably gonna be on most uneven surfaces and I'll see how it performs.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  11. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    Oh yes, there are a few models, not to many but some anime maps have 1 or 2 models that are using that technique. I first stumbled across this technique on a Bleach map and am using it in the cinematic for certain efx. The models is not to good because I used scale but I don't mind at this particular model.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VEGmNpXico&feature=youtu.be

    Some bleach models with that type of shading. Not quite good but you get the idea. I can't find the original one perhaps BlinkBoy can provide you some links.
    Bleach Cell Shaded
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The selection thing is a very good idea indeed however think harder about using it on characters. It looks great and probably might work having it with a realistic environment but it would change the whole project's look dramatically. I realized that I had to change everything in my map after I added bump.
     
  12. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yep, of course. It would make little sense only using it on a few characters.
    It looks good but too different, I may not even use it on the selection. I'll see, I'm still struggling with unifying the look too.
    But for a second, it gave me an idea of making an entirely "cell shaded" environment for something. (for one of my unannounced projects perhaps, if I ever get to make it, which I most likely won't)

    Also, BITE YOUR NAILS ! A major update to the OP coming soon !
     
  13. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    What could it be? Perhaps a teaser trailer?
     
  14. BlueSaint

    BlueSaint

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    I'm surprised if this comes out before sc2's final expansion.
     
  15. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Perhaps, or it could be a completely redesigned original post with gameplay screenshots or perhaps an official site with epic background music or even all three.

    Oh I don't know :p
     
  16. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    I think that's really unlikely. I mean, it would be nice, but It's not going to happen.
     
  17. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Final planned expansion of sc2 is slated for like 2015, it's safe to assume MM will be out by then.
    Maybe not all chapters but the first two definitely.

    I have got a full time contract for 3 months which may impact the process significantly but I'd dare to say Chapter 1 and 2 will be out in a finished state by first quarter of 2014.
    Closed beta may start as soon as in the next 2 months.

    Also, here is the final build of ENB that I ended up using. It has better SSAO, depth of field with bokeh and also noise (that fits the mod well).
    Very satisfied in that matter.
    I have problems getting shadow maps to work with fake parallax, hoping that priority plane will fix it as Toby suggested because I have re-mapped the streets with it as seen in here:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  18. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    More Reply to Thread

    So, before I begin talking about stuff let me say that you got me hyped again and I won't sleep tonight because of you. Again!
    About the thing I didn't get to mansion earlier, posted some examples of the many ways parallax layers can be combined to make really weird efex. My bump worked over the parallax and it helps it look more bumpy, it also ads bump to the details on the surface. By changing the layers order and giving them a priority plane you can get efx like metal, to blur to jelly like materials. It's strange for example by adding a single specular layer on top of all layers it makes it appear elevated somewhat or I'm not sure about that but it looks different from the normal bump. I also stumbled upon something new so I might get close to achieving glass distortions.
    Some of the materials eat away a lot of Comp resources like the blood for example so it's not too practical. In the end I have to forget about half of the materials that I don't even use but could be nice for one picture or special scene.

    Can't wait for your update...
    Edit: Love that last pic.
    I'll have to go and start taking care of my thread/make the new one. I spend way too much time at your thread, Yes I blame you!

    [​IMG]
    S1
    [​IMG]

    S2
    [​IMG]

    S3
    [​IMG]

    Love adding details with parallax!
    Was working on differently elevated details and also a new way to make grass but I got tired so I don't have them to show yet.
    Details
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Sometimes if I don't use the bump carefully I get undesirable results, like the bump looking like plastic or having too much high shine which is inappropriate for a desert land. Yuk!
    Baren
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  19. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    [Bump]
    I know I forgot something all this time and that is to try shadow maps on parallax however priority plane should definitely do the job.
    But if I think about it how's that going to work if the modulate will cover the holes?
    Shit!
    Edit: Almost solved!
    Only tested normal bump so far and as for parallax solved the modulate layer problem.
    It works but you might consider adding the modulate shadow to all planes if it's only in a top layer than it will look like it's covered by something invisible. Will make more test tomorrow but I'm sure You'll find a way to make it work eventually.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  20. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Lol, yeah. That is a bit of a problem. Well it shouldn't be much of a problem if you have simpler shadows where it won't really show. (because if you cover the entire hole with a shadow it should look correct)
    It just may end up wonky on the edges of the shadows.

    Also I see you did a lot of progress there. The bump looks even better with parallax.
    I also love the hard shell model.

    I'll update later, off to sleep for now !