1. Are you planning to upload your awesome map to Hive? Please review the rules here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still haven't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Lead your forces to battle in the 15th Techtree Contest. The call is yours, commander!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The reforging of the races is complete. Come see the 14th Techtree Contest Results.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. It's time to choose your horse in the race - the 32nd Modeling Contest Poll is up!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Lumber TD 3.12

Submitted by opiemonster
This bundle is marked as pending. It has not been reviewed by a staff member yet.

Harvest lumber and defend against waves of enemy forces in this unique PvP Tower Defence.
Discord: Join the Lumber TD Discord Server!

Classic Version: Lumber TD Classic - Warcraft 3 Maps - Epic War.com
FFA Version: Lumber TD 2.91 - Warcraft 3 Maps - Epic War.com




  • Destroy all enemy town halls to win the game
  • If you loose your town hall you will loose.
  • If you do not construct your town hall before the game start timer, you will loose.

  • Barracks spawn units that attack the closest town hall from your town hall
  • Construct lumber mills to train woodcutters
  • Killing enemy units and structures gives you gold
  • Build gold converts to convert gold back to wood

  1. 1.26 - 12/10/2019 - Release
  2. 1.27 - 12/10/2019 - Reduced captain health and damage, increased archer damage and build speed, fixed lumber refiners building too much
  3. 1.28 - 12/10/2019 - Fixed lumber converters not giving wood
  4. 1.29 - 12/10/2019 - Fixed game winning twice, added long timeout to peasants in case they persist through upgrades (to reduce pathing lag late game)
  5. 1.30 - 12/10/2019 - Reduced tank health, armor, spawn time, fixed lumber wizard hotkeys (repair, gather)
  6. 1.32 - 14/10/2019 - various bug fixes, new elite ranger unit, upgrade system, unit level up system
  7. 1.33 - 14/10/2019 - bug fixes & balancing
  8. 1.34 - 15/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing, new tech options
  9. 1.35 - 15/10/2019 - made tanks cost 50k (designed to be game ending unit)
  10. 1.37 - 19/10/2019 - bug fixes & balancing
  11. 1.40 - 22/10/2019 - new end game upgrade, balancing.
  12. 1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
  13. 1.46 - 23/10/2019 - balance changes, increased cost of town hall upgrades (most optimal strat ws to just get very few buildings and tech very quickly, also reduces snowballing, slowing the game down a bit between tiers allows more 'plays' to occur)
  14. 1.49 - 24/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing
  15. 1.50 - 25/10/2019 - slightly reduced early wizard damage, increased lv 1 barracks cost by 50, very slightly increased lv 1 tower dmg +hp (early rushing was a bit too strong)
  16. 1.51 - 25/10/2019 - reduced tower build time to 3s, increased damage by 1
  17. 1.53 - 25/10/2019 - reduced cost of town hall 2, 3, made towers have fortified armor
  18. 1.54 - 25/10/2019 - increased magic damage against fortified (50%), reduced lv 1 tower damage by 50
  19. 1.55 - 26/10/2019 - reduced damage & range of elite archers, reduced cost of workshop by 5k, increased cost of elite rangers by 5k, increased tower level-up hp to 25
  20. 1.55 - 27/10/2019 - changed name from 1.5 to 1.55
  21. 1.56 - 29/10/2019 - many late game changes & bug fixes
  22. 1.57 - 30/10/2019 - 100 unit cap per player, woodcutter militia now destroyed on upgrade/lodge destruction, slightly reduced cost of higher level towers, fixed issue with hp upgrades in flight form not working, slightly reduced cost of end game barracks, archers, priests
  23. 1.58 - 1/11/2019 - swapped cost of exporter & oupost, increased damage of starfall tower to +250
  24. 1.59 - 2/11/2019 - fixed various bugs, increased unit cap to 120, fixed bug where units exceeded 120 cap later in game, added 1 extra player
  25. 1.61 - 07/11/2019 - Many balance changes
  26. 1.62 - 09/11/2019 - fixed bug where units would spawn for player, instead of being removed when units are maxed
  27. 1.63 - 09/11/2019 - fixed bug where max unit cap would not uncap. Added tree spawner, waygate buildings
  28. 1.64 - 11/11/2019 - fixed bug where max unit cap would not uncap (hopefully the last)
  29. 1.65 - 11/11/2019 - Added Item shop + various abilities
  30. 1.66 - 12/11/2019 - Fixed bugs, fixed exporter 2 not auto training
  31. 1.67 - 12/11/2019 - added start delays to items, made firebolt ability use black dragon welp art, tweaked mana cost of abilities
  32. 1.69 - 14/11/2019 - Reduced cost of items, increased gold gained from buildings/peasants, slightly increased health of t2 woodwarriors, slightly increased cost of t2 woodcutter lodges
  33. 1.70 - 15/11/2019 - Reduced cost of waygate, increased health by +2500hp
  34. 1.71 - 15/11/2019 - reduced cost of barracks 1/2, gold converter 1/2, increased cost of woodcutters 2, reduced cost of items further. Reduced wood wizard tree damag to 12
  35. 1.72 - 15/11/2019 - increased damage of blizzard by 25
  36. 1.73 - 16/11/2019 - fixed items being dropped on death, removed bottom right base
  37. 1.74 - 23/11/2019 - modified waygate to make units spawn from it and attack closest base, increased time/cost of blizzard item, reduced cost of upgrades to 20k lumber, reduced cost & pre-time of fireball item
    1.75 - 27/11/2019 - reduced building damage by blizzard to 20%, increased mana cost to 35, reduced mana cost of flamebolt to 65, fixed issues with buildings not retraining after running out of resources/capping units
  38. 1.76 - 24/11/2019 - bug fixes, lumber shredder
  39. 1.78 - 25/11/2019 - lumber bundles scale over time, fixed bug where converters/exporters dont spawn if there is no gold/wood
  40. 1.8 - 29/11/2019 - changed game to support 12 players
  41. 1.82 - 30/11/2019 - added speed shrine, added archers lv 1 & 2, balancing, bug fixes
  42. 1.84 - 30/11/2019 - balancing, bug fixes
  43. 1.85 - 30/11/2019 - modified starting positions surrounded by trees
  44. 1.86 - 30/11/2019 - reduced snowballing, nerfed starting positions surrounded by trees
  45. 1.87 - 30/11/2019 - reduced hp of woodwarriors, reduced health of corner base trees, added weak trees to starting positions surrounded by trees
  46. 1.91 - 1/12/2019 - bug fixes, balancing
  47. 1.95 - 02/12/2019 - Fixed upgrade bug, added more shrines
  48. 1.96 - 06/12/2019 - Bug fixes
  49. 2.02 - 07/12/2019 - Bug Fixes
  50. 2.09 - 08/12/2019 - Balancing & Bug Fixes
  51. 2.10 - 09/12/2019 - Reduced tower hp/damage, increased cost, reduced cost of t5 units
  52. 2.24 - 15/12/2019 - lumber mills & gold convers significantly more efficient, rebalanced cost & stats of all buildings to make game faster paced.
  53. 2.25 - 18/12/2019 - added build time back to main castle, reduced lumber from lv1/2 castle death, slightly increased lv 1 tower hp, increased build time of frost shrine to 5, reduced frost armor amount, reduced lv 1 wood warrior damage by 2
  54. 2.28 - 20/12/2019 - added wolf in center, added emergency mode, added berserk shrine, minor bug and balance fixes, added starting potion & town portal
  55. 2.29 - 20/12/2019 - minor bug fixes
  56. 2.30 - 20/12/2019 - slightly increased tower armor, reduced lv 1/2 peasant gold from kills, increased gold converter lv1 cost by 50. reduced wolf gold to 1K
  57. 2.31 - 30/12/2019 - slight buff to lv5 militia hp, slightly reduced archer attack speed, increased priest cost, reduced heal to 1500 per 2.5 seconds, reduced large trees in bottom right, limited outpost peasant teleport to 40 to reduce issues with path finding with over 50 units
  58. 2.32 - 31/12/2019 - reduced archer range & damage, increased damage dice, increased cost of gold converter, removed wolf, reverted lumber outpost 40 unit cap change, fixed bug where fire shrine gave 50% bonus damage instead of 25%, removed rally points from various buildings, fixed bug where lv lumber mill wont auto train, increased cost of lumber carry upgrade to 35
  59. 2.33 - 02/01/2019 - removed food cost from lumber outpost, reduced tree farm tree health to 2K from 2.5K, reduced priest health to 500
  60. 2.34 - 05/01/2019 - updated lumber exporter tooltip, reduce priest healing to 1K every 3 seconds from 1.5 every 2.5 seconds
  61. 2.35 - 08/01/2019 - made crow form abilities require t2 upgrade select, reduced time of silence, reduced cast range and aoe slightly. Made fire and berserk shrines require t3 upgrade. Slightly reduced cost of t2-t4 lumber mills, slightly reduced damage of lv 1 militia, slightly reduced amount of lumber rewarded on town hall death. Reduced cost of tower upgrade to 15K from 25K. Increased cost of Wooden Staff from 250 to 500 gold.
  62. 2.36 - 11/01/2019 - fixed bug where t4 units were not getting upgrades
  63. 2.37 - 17/01/2020 - added -who command to see who you are attacking and being attacked by, also printed at game start. Added new units: cold tower, balista tower, wall 1-5, starfall 2, workshop/tank 2, priest/monastary 2, treefarms lv 1-3. Rebalanced item costs, units, waygate, shrines, lumber outpost
  64. 2.40 - 17/01/2020 - gain gold on attack with wood warriors, updated unit models, changed outpost build time to 7 seconds, cost to 5000 wood, 5 food. Added lesser tree destroy, tree create items given at start of game.
  65. 2.41 - 18/01/2020 - removed emergency from t1 castle due to exploit, replaced with damage. replaced. other minor balance/exploit, typo fixes
  66. 2.42 - 18/01/2020 - more rework of map, 9 new castle upgrade types, new building (upgrade center), new upgrades, all town halls have an attack, emergency mode removed, rebalancing.
  67. 2.43 - 18/01/2020 - bug where lumber upgrade didnt work
  68. 2.44 - 18/01/2020 - added more trees to center to stop building in center, increased gold change on hit upgrade from 2% to 3%, reduced fire shrine healing from 500 to 300, reduce attack speed of berserk shrine from 30% to 25% and removed movement speed gain.
  69. 2.46 - 18/01/2020 - fixed t5 gold upgrade not working
  70. 2.49 - 19/01/2020 - reduced woodcutters movement speed, harvest speed, reduced damage of 1-4 towers, tooltip fixes, -who fix, other bug fixes
  71. 2.51 - 19/01/2020 - merged t1 castle/woodlitia upgrades together, added new +10 food upgrade
  72. 2.52 - 19/01/2020 - reverted woodcastle size to normal for t1, reduced wizard respawn time for later tiers, reduced healing of fire shrine to 250 and cost to 2500, fixed typos
  73. 2.53 - 19/01/2020 - fixed efficient woodwarrior upgrade x/y command card location
  74. 2.54 - 19/01/2020 - made outpost spawn in units periodically instead of all at once to reduce pathing lag, made fireshrines buildable by all, inner fire requires advanced shrines, reduced armor of lv 3 & 4 frost shrine, changed items to use wood, added 15 second cd to wizard damage items, slightly reduced wizard rez time, increased wizard armor and health
  75. 2.55 - 22/01/2020 - added new item shop at 20 mins into the game + various new items, significantly increased gold produced from gold converters, increased gold on hit, reduced gold from woodwarrior deaths, increased woodcutter tree damage & carry weight, added woodcutter stats to tooltip
  76. 2.56 - 22/10/2020 - reduced item costs, increased damage of improved blizzard, increased chance for gold on hit from 10% to 15%
  77. 2.56 - 24/10/2020 - increased upgrade time of some towers, buffed crow form abilities
  78. 2.58 - 24/10/2020 - increased damage of woodwarrior 2-4, halved tree damage for normal trees, made wizard be able deal full damage before building first town hall, reduced size of town hall, reduced build time for outpost, cannon, t1 starfall tower
  79. 2.59 - 24/10/2020 - replaced medium and weak trees with normal trees, made t1 town hall upgrade be able to attack buildings, slightly reduced damage of t2-4 woodwarriors
  80. 2.60 - 24/10/2020 - reduced cost of t1 tree farm to 2500, increased health slightly of all tree farms, made staff of nature/inferno free with 60s cd
  81. 2.61 - 25/01/2020 - made speed shrine build able at t1 reduced cost of items, changed food upgrade, changed lumber staffs, bug fixes
  82. 2.62 - 26/01/2020 - fixed items being lost on death
  83. 2.63 - 26/01/2020 - reworked some upgrades, renamed research center to lumber lab
  84. 2.64 - 26/01/2020 - optimisations/lag reduction, reduced total food, scaled build time of woodcutters from 6-30s from t1 to t5, fixed typos, increased health of lumber exporters significantly (prep for reforged)
  85. 2.65 - 26/01/2020 - reverted food reduction, only applies to t5 woodcastle, reworked more upgrades, added Greater hood of the forest (+150 mana, +200% mana regen), made lumber wizard start with 50% mana on death
  86. 2.66 - 26/01/2020 - updated unit attack priorities (units -> towers -> town hall -> other buildings), fixed ending cam not working for non winning players
  87. 2.67 - 26/01/2020 - upgraded treefarm and lumber exporter upgrades, reduced cost of lumber exporters
  88. 2.72 - 27/01/2020 - fixed flight form upgrade not working, fixed improved woodcastle building upgrade (armor+hp) not working, Reverted t5 castle back to 150 food, new health regen items, reduced exporter talent from 25% to 20% chance to double gold, updated gold bounty on buildings and units, updated tooltips, fixed woodcutters not dying from lumber mill death, added leaderboard, updated intro tutorial messages
  89. 2.74 - 27/01/2020 - fixed player color, fixed frost shrine tooltip, increased time before unit start training when constructing/upgrading a structure, less for repeated training
  90. 2.75 - 27/01/2020 - fixed leaderboard attack target bug
  91. 2.76 - 27/01/2020 - fixed outpost hotkey call to arms being Z which destroys the outpost
  92. 2.77 - 28/01/2020 - lumber wizard crow form now has same hp as normal wizard but takes x10 times more damage, flight form upgrade gives +10 armor, fixed wind walk not being added when leaving flight form.
  93. 2.78 - 30/01/2020 - fixed reforged related issues, modified terrain
  94. 2.80 - 30/01/2020 - fixed player colors not working in leaderboard
  95. 2.81 - 04/02/2020 - fixed an issue where the game looked like a mobile game and was very laggy (unsure how this happened)
  96. 2.83 - 07/02/2020 - made some buildings in main wizard command card, made woodcastle t1-3 spawn more woodwarriors, increased damage of woodwarrior 1 and 2 by 5
  97. 2.84 - 09/02/2020 - fixed issue with items being lost on death, made consumables not lost on death
  98. 2.85 - 09/02/2020 - fixed items becoming unlimited on death, made crow form transformation invulnerable
  99. 2.86 - 10/02/2020 - fixed more item issues, added anti air tower
  100. 2.89 - 12/02/2020 - replaced invulnerability pots with invisibility pots, added sight tower, sight gem, slightly reduced captain armor, added dispel to priests, reduced gold bounty of t4 and t5 towers, increased cost of t4 and t5 gold converters, reduced t5 town gold upgrade from 5% to 3%, removed level up from towers when killing peasants/militia
  101. 2.90 - 14/02/2020 - merged sight/air tower into anti crow tower, enabled reforged graphics again
  102. 2.91 - 15/02/2020 - fixed towers not working
  103. 2.93 - 16/02/2020 - made game 6v6 instead of FFA, added poison tower, rebalancing, bug fixing
  104. 2.94 - 19/02/2020 - reduced tower rushing, reverted town hall size to 6x6
  105. 2.98 - 21/02/2020 - reduced health, damage and attack speed of poison tower, added FFA, 2v2v2v2v2v2, 3v3v3v3, 4v4v4, 6v6 modes, increased woodcastle health
  106. 2.99 - 22/02/2020 - bug fixes
  107. 3.00 - 23/02/2020 - item bug fix, reverted crow form transformation speed, new glaive tower, new arcane tower, fixed FFA AI allied units attacking allies
  108. 3.01 - 23/02/2020 - bug fixes
  109. 3.02 - 07/03/2020 - fixed bug where pesants wouldnt respawn on death
  110. 3.04 - 08/03/2020 - increased mana regen of sobi mask from 100% to 200%, increased mana regen of greater hood of the forest from 200% to 500%, fixed lv 2 tower icon location, reduced cost of anti crow tower, reduced health of lumber exporters, fixed attack priority of some towers
  111. 3.05 - 12/03/2020 - increased cost of poison tower and starfal tower
  112. 3.07 - 19/04/2020 - total map rebalance, made various units, towers shrines unlocked by research, with limited research points, to reduce complexity
  113. 3.08 - 19/04/2020 - bug fixes, made early game harder, easier to die
  114. 3.12 - 21/04/2020 - new items, bug fixes, made some starting buildings require lumber lab to enhance simplicity
Previews
Contents

Lumber TD 3.12 (Map)

Reviews
Kerael
1. Fireball model is the same as attack missile again. :) 2. Cool move with the Item Shop. But I'm sure you're aware that it needs more work. First of all, why do exclusive abilites have different costs? Where is the choice if one of them is just...
moonturtle
Yeah I agree. That's one way to close a game out on two conditions. A) You've developed an economy far superior than the remaining players. B) Your economy isn't superior but you've surprised your neighbor with the sudden transition into barracks....
Paillan
Tested last version. Basically there's no changes to the main issues of the map, which I will repeat here: Frustrating attack system that doesn't let you know who will attack you or who you'll be attacked by, which can lead to players not being attack...
  1. MitchDizzle

    MitchDizzle

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Played this last night with a friend since it was hosted online. Turns out the game crashes everybody as soon as you do 'Call To Arms'. Me and my friend agreed not to press it and was able to harvest half the map before my troops took over his base and he pressed the button instantly crashing both of us to desktop.
    EDIT: Seems my version was out of date since it was hosted on battle.net. We played on "Lumber TD 1.16" so this issue is probably fixed now.

    Also seems weird to call this a 'Tower Defence' when there is only one tower that you can really build and the rest of the time you're spending your lumber on getting more lumber.
     
  2. opiemonster

    opiemonster

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    Yep, that has been fixed.
     
  3. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Hello! Played this map with fullhouse just now, gathered some info to bring up.

    1. The map uses 8 human players with 16 computers, as far as I've seen only 1 computer is used per 1 human for the militia. This way it can be expanded to 12 players, unless the remaining computers are actually used for something. Just a suggestion, anyway.
    1.1 Also, the computers can be hidden from the lobby by setting their controller to 'Neutral' in player options. There's not a lot of spell-casting AI to mess up this way.
    2. Terrain. There are some gaps in the trees implying the hidden Town Hall exploits, although it's fixed, some guys tried it. If you cover up the gaps, there will be less opportunity to hide the Lumber Outpost as well. I mean it would take more time, rightfully so.
    2.1 The all-green terrain looks boring, to be frank. You might mess around with different trees/tiles variations like Fall/Winter or even Jungle here and there.
    3. Militia nearest-enemy targeting looks a bit dumb. One player's units were only attacking me while my units were only attacking the third player.
    3.1 I'd suggest adjusting the pathing map of the buildings to have a walkable/unbuildable 'frame' around the unwalkable part, like the default Human Barracks. It's really easy to cramp up your base. And making walls out of those buildings isn't really an option since they have very little HP and...
    3.2 Enemy units can be abused with towers, hidden in trees.
    3.3 Enemy militia still spawns for a while after the player has left/was defeated. Have to check if the main building is alive for the spawn.
    3.4 Lumbermills Level 2 and 3 do not spawn Lumberjacks.
    3.5 While in Crow Form, the main guy only has 100 HP (does not increase with town hall upgrades).
    3.6 Militia Level 5 are stupidly strong. Basically it all comes down to who gets to this tech first, so it's just an optimal build-order question.
    3.7 'Remove' ability on units still has a tooltip about 'removing a building'.
    3.8 Return Lumber (W) hotkey doesn't work.​

    The map seems nice in it's general premise, but I can see how the gameplay implications ought to result in quite an amount of stale and uneventful matches. It would be really cool to see some changes aimed at the flow of the game, say: backdoor building and breaking through the hidden towers (currently you can only trade an upgraded main guy a couple of times to deal with the tree-wall; so a special unit/ability would be great, or just increase his attack range (from main upgrade, for example) to be on par with towers, this will also help with traversing 'gapless' forests).

    Good luck with the development! I like your idea and I believe the lumber-theme can be enriched further. However the map needs more work in order to feel more dynamic.
     
  4. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Great update! I've tried it in singleplayer to see what's up and came up with some feedback:

    4. First of all, I'd recommend writing more informative changelogs. Since you've made a fair amount of work on the map, it will be only right to describe what it is you've updated.
    4.1 You can use [hidden=Update X]-Point 1 -Point 2[/hidden] tags to visually separate the updates inside the Changelog spoiler.
    4.2 Would also recommend reordering the updates so the most recent one is at the top.
    5. Cool upgrade system, but there are some uncertainties to clarify as well as possible balance issues to solve:
    5.1 It's not clear to whom the Evasion/Crit upgrades apply to. I've opened the map in WE and concluded that these upgrades don't work. They increase an existing ability's level, but neither Militia, nor the Lumber Wizard have these abilities to begin with. It's better to just lock these abilities behind an upgrade (like Firebolt) and give these abilities to desired units. Don't forget to also research these upgrades for corresponding computers if Militia is going to use Evasion/Crit.
    5.2 I'd suggest increasing Evasion/Crit chance to 15% at least, as they are not that good compared to other economic/tower/hero options.
    5.3 Lumber Wizard (Crow Form) still has 100 HP and Heavy Armor (one-shotted by Level 3 Wizard). If you intend the Crow Form to be weaker, just make it's HP halved compared to the ground version (150 HP + 2nd, Crow-specific HP upgrade). +50 Speed per Level is kinda too much (for the ground-version even), I'd recommend making in +25 for both ground/flying versions.
    5.4 Lumber Wizard (Crow Form) doesn't need the Firebolt/Rain of Fire in the Upgrades Used field, as it will apply to it regardless (if it had those abilities, of course).
    6. Rain of Fire is kinda weak in many regards. Would recommend changing it to Flamestrike. This ability doesn't require that much channeling time AND it destroys trees, which is like an augment to the tree-attack. I think that would be really cool.

    7. Lumber Refinery gives +2000 lumber, while saying it converts 500 to 1000.
    I will play the update on b.net now. I'll add something about the new special units once I've tried them.
    Please let me know what you think.

    EDIT: Ok, there are more issues.

    8. Tanks having 20k life is ridiculous. There is no counterplay to them apart from completely blocking them with waves of lvl1 Militia.

    9. You can reset Fireball/Rain of Fire cooldown by turning Crow Form on and off. The Crow should also have these abilities in order to prevent that. Disabling these abilities for the Crow is another topic. You can try to do it like the disabled Roar for Bear Form (Druid of the Claw).
    9.1 Since there is a (Q) hotkey for the 1st ability, mind changing the 2nd ability hotkey to (W)? Harvest/Return would then be (D).
    9.2 Fireball's cast range is too short and cooldown is too long. I'd suggest having the same cast range as the attack range, but ~20 sec cooldown. Also, use a larger model for the projectile (Red Dragon attack). As far as I know, you can completely dodge the this spell by using Crow Form so it will be balanced if you telegraph the incoming Fireball properly (currently looks the same as a normal attack).
    10. Woodcutters are moved inside the Lumber Outpost, making them idle. It's better to move them to a random point around the building. Also, issuing a lot of orders at the same time causes immense lags (not the usual lags, but units standing stupidly after receiving orders). The method you are using is incredibly slow. I can improve this trigger for you, if you want.

    11. Also, I've noticed that the Militia uses 2 computer-players, but I don't really know why as they both behave the same.
    11.1 When you upgrade your main, the camera moves to the other player's base with a message 'Select Tech'.
    11.2 Sometimes the Victory doesn't happen if somebody left he game and only after all the enemy Town Halls are dead.
    11.3 Sometimes the Woodcutters don't upgrade properly when the Lumbermills are upgraded. I had all lvl5 Lumbermills, but still had some lvl2/3/4 Woodcutters.
    12. When selecting the new Tech (like Fireball), you can click on all three to get them all. To fix that, you should issue at least 2 'cancel' orders to the Main Building when a Tech is researched.
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetTriggerUnit(), 851976)
    12.1 Only the Militia start producing automatically when their building is constructed. Woodcutters and Lumber Conversion/Refinement have to be produced manually (the first time), unless you're ok with waiting for the global timer (~30 sec). Also it would be handy to have hotkeys for producing these units (and lumber conversion).​
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  5. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Well, with those changes to building pathing, tower hp from levels and the crow form cooldown, I start to see the pitfall you're trying to get yourself into.
    If you were up to discussion, that would be one thing. But I guess I'll stop testing this map for a while.
    Best regards.
     
  6. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Hi. Just wanted to point out that 'game ending units' are a poor design. Why? They render ALL the other units irrelevant so that the game comes down to who can get to them first (a question of optimal build-order).

    What problem do these Tanks solve? They break the defences, which can't be broken otherwise.

    This is the real problem, while the Tanks are just an attempt to solve it (simultaneously introducing another problem).

    In the last patches you've made Towers' health go up to tens of thousands by leveling up (10% chance per kill, which is not really an exp bar, but ok). This would seemingly make Tanks justifiable, but in reality it's simply a juxtaposition of two unfun concepts. This is my opinion; someone else might actually get excited about it, but I haven't met them yet.

    I really liked the earlier versions of the map (1.32, no clue if tanks were present there as well) when the game outcome was more or less dependant on the micro-maneuvers and not only the build-order. You could put a pressure on some player by going Barracks first and then using your Wizard to kill early Towers (unless repaired). Now when the Towers level up crazily, it's not really an option with how much their hp goes up. Even less so, keeping in mind, that Repair ..well.. repairs for a percentage of max health.

    Also, you've added a cooldown to Crow Form instead of fixing the Fireball/Rain of Fire cheat. This and all of the above kinda kills the excitement for me. What seems to be an action-packed game turns into hour-long stalemates.
    And with the way you update the map, trying to cover problems instead of actually fixing them, it doesn't leave much for the imagination.

    We could discuss the intricacies of the gameflow, but I guess it takes time, so you don't even fucking reply.
    Fix your map, man.
     
  7. metalfreak

    metalfreak

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Played it for a few times, the endgame is ridiculous its about "siege tanks" which cant be downed in time cause they have 10k life and the building amor type PLUS siege tanks dont attack siege tanks so there is no usefull counter .... there is no balance in the endgame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  8. moonturtle

    moonturtle

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I've been playing this map quite religiously and I have to say I love a lot of things about this map. It's quickly decided and it feels like you can with the right decision have an heavy influence on your impact in the game. I haven't been exploring the endgame much since games are usually decided at around t2-t3, at least with the aggro-gold playstyle which seems to be meta.

    I'm not sure about your goals with the recent changes in 1.40. What I've noticed so far from playing it, you've added splash to the builder and given him two spells unlocked at t2 and t3. I assume your goal here is to make people use their builders more for other reasons than chopping wood.

    [Issue 1] The fireball which deals 250 damage, capable of oneshotting t1 builders, with low cd and manacost seems overtuned. At its current state anyone who tiers up first to t2 can essentially fuck over anyone who is t1.
    • Suggestion: Make a higher CD or increase manacost+decrease manaregen.

    [Issue 2] Relative to t1 units, the t1 builder is VERY strong both damage and health/regen wise. i.e in early game, the t1 builder is VERY capable of bringing down armies efficiently. The newly brought in splash effect certainly could be tuned down a bit.
    • Suggestion: Lower damage for t1 builder. Perhaps lower the health regen as well since you can abuse that by taking on armies on your own only to regenerate.

    [Issue 3 - Major issue] Players leaving before you finish off their base essentially deny you of all gold that you could've had. This is a major flaw as it can deny the attacker thousands of gold.
    • Suggestion: Give the person who last hit the building the gold before destroying? Another solution would be to just not remove anything.

    Feel free to add me on battle.net, maybe we can play and discuss while playing :)

    Regardless of these issues, I like where the direction of this map is going. The Wizard should be out in the battlefield, not at base chopping wood.

    (Here's a video that captures the aggro gold playstyle I was talking about earlier)(Sorry about the shitty mic audio, I covered most of it up with some adjusting+music)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  9. opiemonster

    opiemonster

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    that was an old version, its fixed
     
  10. moonturtle

    moonturtle

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Hey, just popping in to say that the latest patch is very enjoyable game play wise. I see that you're gathering a playerbase since I'm frequently seeing the same players over and over again, which is a great sign for a map. There's a lot of frequent players, including me, who are interested in more detailed change logs.

    If possible, could you be more specific about the changes you're making each patch?

    i.e

    Turning something like this:
    1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
    1.46 - 23/10/2019 - minor balance changes
    1.49 - 24/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing

    into:
    1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
    bla bla bla
    bla bla bla
    1.46 - 23/10/2019 - minor balance changes
    Bla bla bla
    Bla bla bla
    1.49 - 24/10/2019
    Barracks cost 250 wood instead of 450.
    Gold converters are less efficient at earlier levels (125g -> 150wood), (250g -> 300wood)
    Wizard can no longer cast fireball or flame strike.
    etc etc etc
     
  11. opiemonster

    opiemonster

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6

    hey man, thanks for the feedback, I watched your vid, i prefer this playstyle a lot too, want to make sure lumber mills, towering is still a viable strat too though.

    The abilities were kind of just annoying, and didnt really fit the game, i just removed them. I think the splash is enough.

    The issue about the player leaving and all buildings get destroyed, i agree it kinda sucks, still thinking how i want to handle it though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  12. opiemonster

    opiemonster

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    fixed
     
  13. Hancho

    Hancho

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Hi I really like this/your map.
    - Not sure if it is/was a bug or intentional and if it was fixed in newer versions but I think it was in version 1.46 I could not destroy my cannon tower (command card button missing).
    - Not sure if it was an intentional decision but during upgrading the main building you cannot issue an attack order (it loses the ability)
    - Sometimes it is hard to tell which player will attack you and which player you will attack. It would be nice if there were a more clearer indicator maybe with a chat command that shows some text on the screen (maybe automaticly executet if a player dies and if a base is build) or something in the right upper corner where some other maps have a collapseable/expandable leaderboard.

    Thank you for making and continuously improving this map.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  14. opiemonster

    opiemonster

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    Hey thanks for the feedback.

    1. that should be fixed
    2. i know about that, cant fix it sorry
    3. yea i should add that, thanks for the suggestion.
     
  15. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
  16. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Well, the gameplay is much more smooth and streamlined now. Mostly, for the better. But there's somewhat less space for tricks and plays. New tech choices are better, but can still be improved. Tier 5 has balance issues.
    Now, for the details:

    1. With the Lumber Refinery/Exporter rework (and probably prior to that), you can do without ANY Woodcutters past Tier 4. But there are Talents (tech choices; will call it that, since they are) for Woodcutters Harvest and Stats. Why would I go for that (excluding the slight mid-game edge it gives, which is more or less conditional, anyway) if I won't need any Woodcutters at the later stage, hence rendering these Talents useless? Serious question; may have several answers. The woodcutter talents themselves seem good.

    2. Crow Form issues.
    2.1 100 HP at Tier 5 with max wizard upgrades is just sad. Make it have a half HP of what wizard has. Heavy armor vs magic damage is a proper punishment already. Having the bird get one-shotted isn't fun and instead is prone to abuse (respawn-camping).
    2.2 Crow gives ~110 gold instead of Wizard's 250. You can use Crow Form to deny your enemy some gold.
    3. Tier 5 units' stats are blown out of proportion. Those who get to it first (Grom's Lumber Quest?) win by default. People at Tier 4 usually don't get enough time to (1) get to Tier 5 under the pressure and (2) upgrade their barracks/towers to Tier 5.
    I suggest smoothing out the Power/Tier curve and reducing the cost of the Tiers. This opinion is shared among many of the guys I've played with.
    3.1 Priests and Archers don't seem like good units for Tier 5. I mean their stats/performance. Suggest giving some aoe heal/buff spells to Priests and increasing their raw stats as well.
    4. There is a 'tech-limit' for Tier 4 Towers (can be built directly with Tier 5) of 1. It is not noticeable when you upgrade them to Tier 4, but you can only build one of these at a time.
    4.1 Tier 5 upgrades (Wizard) give mana regen, but there is no mana. Giving both attack damage and attack speed is busted. Remove the attack speed component of this upgrade, since there is already a talent for Wizard attack speed (could be buffed, since it only affects 1 unit, instead of a 100, as for the other options).
    5. Having some ability options was great. I understand that you'd go for them most of the time, neglecting the other ones. It tells me that the abilities should be implemented in some other way, not just removed.
    For example: Tier 1 and Tier 5 give you 3 abilities to choose from.
    Tier 1 abilities are basic like weak Firebolt, Entangle (light damage, mostly to prevent repair) and Drunken Haze (I dunno, something to affect a group of infantry); the cooldowns should be around 15-20 seconds; total damage around a 100; stuns - 2 sec; roots ~ 10 sec.
    Tier 5 abilities are somewhat ultimate: Rain of Fire (channeled anti-infantry mostly, big aoe, Building Reduction field ~ 33%), Flamestrike (good vs buildings and can open up the treelines, medium aoe) and Breath of Fire (medium range anti-captain/tank spell, medium damage, high burn dps when combined with drunken haze).
    I do not wish this map to become an ability-fest, but at least some interactions must be implemented in order for it to deviate from a 2D Castle Fight.
    6. Repair Rate on Town Hall is very, very slow. If you double-base with someone, you are doomed after they get 4 towers attacking your main since you cannot outrepair the 40 piercing dps. And said tower are repaired in 5 sec.
    Even in a normal game, it's not right. Late tier towers are also slowly repaired, make the difference smaller.
    Most of the numbers in game are way out of proportion, but it's more balanced compared to previous versions. However there's fewer options now so there's that.
     
  17. 3nemy_

    3nemy_

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Your map has been forked by a player called Frodo6T9Bag and he named it Lumber TD 2.71 ProMode.
    Needless to say map is a disaster and I'm not even sure if it's a joke version or not, but you might want to consider protecting your work in future.


    Regarding your map. In last few vers I noticed at certain point in game when at Tier 4 or 5 I am unable to build more than 5 towers, the tower icon disappears, it's definitely not food related as I have enough supply so my question is if this is intentional or not?
     
  18. opiemonster

    opiemonster

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6

    That bug should be fixed now. I know about the troll map lol, I really dont mind.
     
  19. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Wanted to play an aggro opening, but it wasn't optimal because of the positions.
    The game turned out to be pretty normal, as in average. Gametime-wise as well.
    I don't really expect you to watch the whole video as I hope you don't expect us to play whole hours, basically watching militia most of the time.
    Excuse the crappy mic.



    P.S. By changes like: making cooldowns longer, increasing costs, and so on, you aren't really balancing the map so much as just drawing it out across time.
    Make weaker, cheaper options so the game feels somewhat dynamic.
    And please, playtest your map yourself every so often to get in sync with what it's like, how much real time it takes on average and, most importantly, to get a practical heads up about the necessary fixes and updates.
    Ppl will usually complain in lobby and in game, so take note! :)