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Lumber TD 1.69

Submitted by opiemonster
This bundle is marked as pending. It has not been reviewed by a staff member yet.

Harvest lumber and defend against waves of enemy forces in this unique PvP Tower Defence.




  • Destroy all enemy town halls to win the game
  • If you loose your town hall you will loose.
  • If you do not construct your town hall before the game start timer, you will loose.

  • Barracks spawn units that attack the closest town hall from your town hall
  • Construct lumber mills to train woodcutters
  • Killing enemy units and structures gives you gold
  • Build gold converts to convert gold back to wood

  1. 1.26 - 12/10/2019 - Release
  2. 1.27 - 12/10/2019 - Reduced captain health and damage, increased archer damage and build speed, fixed lumber refiners building too much
  3. 1.28 - 12/10/2019 - Fixed lumber converters not giving wood
  4. 1.29 - 12/10/2019 - Fixed game winning twice, added long timeout to peasants in case they persist through upgrades (to reduce pathing lag late game)
  5. 1.30 - 12/10/2019 - Reduced tank health, armor, spawn time, fixed lumber wizard hotkeys (repair, gather)
  6. 1.32 - 14/10/2019 - various bug fixes, new elite ranger unit, upgrade system, unit level up system
  7. 1.33 - 14/10/2019 - bug fixes & balancing
  8. 1.34 - 15/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing, new tech options
  9. 1.35 - 15/10/2019 - made tanks cost 50k (designed to be game ending unit)
  10. 1.37 - 19/10/2019 - bug fixes & balancing
  11. 1.40 - 22/10/2019 - new end game upgrade, balancing.
  12. 1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
  13. 1.46 - 23/10/2019 - balance changes, increased cost of town hall upgrades (most optimal strat ws to just get very few buildings and tech very quickly, also reduces snowballing, slowing the game down a bit between tiers allows more 'plays' to occur)
  14. 1.49 - 24/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing
  15. 1.50 - 25/10/2019 - slightly reduced early wizard damage, increased lv 1 barracks cost by 50, very slightly increased lv 1 tower dmg +hp (early rushing was a bit too strong)
  16. 1.51 - 25/10/2019 - reduced tower build time to 3s, increased damage by 1
  17. 1.53 - 25/10/2019 - reduced cost of town hall 2, 3, made towers have fortified armor
  18. 1.54 - 25/10/2019 - increased magic damage against fortified (50%), reduced lv 1 tower damage by 50
  19. 1.55 - 26/10/2019 - reduced damage & range of elite archers, reduced cost of workshop by 5k, increased cost of elite rangers by 5k, increased tower level-up hp to 25
  20. 1.55 - 27/10/2019 - changed name from 1.5 to 1.55
  21. 1.56 - 29/10/2019 - many late game changes & bug fixes
  22. 1.57 - 30/10/2019 - 100 unit cap per player, woodcutter militia now destroyed on upgrade/lodge destruction, slightly reduced cost of higher level towers, fixed issue with hp upgrades in flight form not working, slightly reduced cost of end game barracks, archers, priests
  23. 1.58 - 1/11/2019 - swapped cost of exporter & oupost, increased damage of starfall tower to +250
  24. 1.59 - 2/11/2019 - fixed various bugs, increased unit cap to 120, fixed bug where units exceeded 120 cap later in game, added 1 extra player
  25. 1.61 - 07/11/2019 - Many balance changes
  26. 1.62 - 09/11/2019 - fixed bug where units would spawn for player, instead of being removed when units are maxed
  27. 1.63 - 09/11/2019 - fixed bug where max unit cap would not uncap. Added tree spawner, waygate buildings
  28. 1.64 - 11/11/2019 - fixed bug where max unit cap would not uncap (hopefully the last)
  29. 1.65 - 11/11/2019 - Added Item shop + various abilities
  30. 1.66 - 12/11/2019 - Fixed bugs, fixed exporter 2 not auto training
  31. 1.67 - 12/11/2019 - added start delays to items, made firebolt ability use black dragon welp art, tweaked mana cost of abilities
  32. 1.69 - 14/11/2019 - reduced cost of items, increased gold gained from buildings/peasants, slightly increased health of t2 woodwarriors, slightly increased cost of t2 woodcutter lodges
Previews
Contents

Lumber TD 1.69 (Map)

Reviews
Kerael
@opiemonster Hey! There is a Big Bug in the 1.57. The armies spawn indefinitely (way more than the proposed 100) and undergo massive stutters! They mostly belong to player 2, with about 3-5% of them belonging to player 3 (respective AI of each real...
  1. MitchDizzle

    MitchDizzle

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    Played this last night with a friend since it was hosted online. Turns out the game crashes everybody as soon as you do 'Call To Arms'. Me and my friend agreed not to press it and was able to harvest half the map before my troops took over his base and he pressed the button instantly crashing both of us to desktop.
    EDIT: Seems my version was out of date since it was hosted on battle.net. We played on "Lumber TD 1.16" so this issue is probably fixed now.

    Also seems weird to call this a 'Tower Defence' when there is only one tower that you can really build and the rest of the time you're spending your lumber on getting more lumber.
     
  2. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    Yep, that has been fixed.
     
  3. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Hello! Played this map with fullhouse just now, gathered some info to bring up.

    1. The map uses 8 human players with 16 computers, as far as I've seen only 1 computer is used per 1 human for the militia. This way it can be expanded to 12 players, unless the remaining computers are actually used for something. Just a suggestion, anyway.
    1.1 Also, the computers can be hidden from the lobby by setting their controller to 'Neutral' in player options. There's not a lot of spell-casting AI to mess up this way.
    2. Terrain. There are some gaps in the trees implying the hidden Town Hall exploits, although it's fixed, some guys tried it. If you cover up the gaps, there will be less opportunity to hide the Lumber Outpost as well. I mean it would take more time, rightfully so.
    2.1 The all-green terrain looks boring, to be frank. You might mess around with different trees/tiles variations like Fall/Winter or even Jungle here and there.
    3. Militia nearest-enemy targeting looks a bit dumb. One player's units were only attacking me while my units were only attacking the third player.
    3.1 I'd suggest adjusting the pathing map of the buildings to have a walkable/unbuildable 'frame' around the unwalkable part, like the default Human Barracks. It's really easy to cramp up your base. And making walls out of those buildings isn't really an option since they have very little HP and...
    3.2 Enemy units can be abused with towers, hidden in trees.
    3.3 Enemy militia still spawns for a while after the player has left/was defeated. Have to check if the main building is alive for the spawn.
    3.4 Lumbermills Level 2 and 3 do not spawn Lumberjacks.
    3.5 While in Crow Form, the main guy only has 100 HP (does not increase with town hall upgrades).
    3.6 Militia Level 5 are stupidly strong. Basically it all comes down to who gets to this tech first, so it's just an optimal build-order question.
    3.7 'Remove' ability on units still has a tooltip about 'removing a building'.
    3.8 Return Lumber (W) hotkey doesn't work.​

    The map seems nice in it's general premise, but I can see how the gameplay implications ought to result in quite an amount of stale and uneventful matches. It would be really cool to see some changes aimed at the flow of the game, say: backdoor building and breaking through the hidden towers (currently you can only trade an upgraded main guy a couple of times to deal with the tree-wall; so a special unit/ability would be great, or just increase his attack range (from main upgrade, for example) to be on par with towers, this will also help with traversing 'gapless' forests).

    Good luck with the development! I like your idea and I believe the lumber-theme can be enriched further. However the map needs more work in order to feel more dynamic.
     
  4. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Great update! I've tried it in singleplayer to see what's up and came up with some feedback:

    4. First of all, I'd recommend writing more informative changelogs. Since you've made a fair amount of work on the map, it will be only right to describe what it is you've updated.
    4.1 You can use [hidden=Update X]-Point 1 -Point 2[/hidden] tags to visually separate the updates inside the Changelog spoiler.
    4.2 Would also recommend reordering the updates so the most recent one is at the top.
    5. Cool upgrade system, but there are some uncertainties to clarify as well as possible balance issues to solve:
    5.1 It's not clear to whom the Evasion/Crit upgrades apply to. I've opened the map in WE and concluded that these upgrades don't work. They increase an existing ability's level, but neither Militia, nor the Lumber Wizard have these abilities to begin with. It's better to just lock these abilities behind an upgrade (like Firebolt) and give these abilities to desired units. Don't forget to also research these upgrades for corresponding computers if Militia is going to use Evasion/Crit.
    5.2 I'd suggest increasing Evasion/Crit chance to 15% at least, as they are not that good compared to other economic/tower/hero options.
    5.3 Lumber Wizard (Crow Form) still has 100 HP and Heavy Armor (one-shotted by Level 3 Wizard). If you intend the Crow Form to be weaker, just make it's HP halved compared to the ground version (150 HP + 2nd, Crow-specific HP upgrade). +50 Speed per Level is kinda too much (for the ground-version even), I'd recommend making in +25 for both ground/flying versions.
    5.4 Lumber Wizard (Crow Form) doesn't need the Firebolt/Rain of Fire in the Upgrades Used field, as it will apply to it regardless (if it had those abilities, of course).
    6. Rain of Fire is kinda weak in many regards. Would recommend changing it to Flamestrike. This ability doesn't require that much channeling time AND it destroys trees, which is like an augment to the tree-attack. I think that would be really cool.

    7. Lumber Refinery gives +2000 lumber, while saying it converts 500 to 1000.
    I will play the update on b.net now. I'll add something about the new special units once I've tried them.
    Please let me know what you think.

    EDIT: Ok, there are more issues.

    8. Tanks having 20k life is ridiculous. There is no counterplay to them apart from completely blocking them with waves of lvl1 Militia.

    9. You can reset Fireball/Rain of Fire cooldown by turning Crow Form on and off. The Crow should also have these abilities in order to prevent that. Disabling these abilities for the Crow is another topic. You can try to do it like the disabled Roar for Bear Form (Druid of the Claw).
    9.1 Since there is a (Q) hotkey for the 1st ability, mind changing the 2nd ability hotkey to (W)? Harvest/Return would then be (D).
    9.2 Fireball's cast range is too short and cooldown is too long. I'd suggest having the same cast range as the attack range, but ~20 sec cooldown. Also, use a larger model for the projectile (Red Dragon attack). As far as I know, you can completely dodge the this spell by using Crow Form so it will be balanced if you telegraph the incoming Fireball properly (currently looks the same as a normal attack).
    10. Woodcutters are moved inside the Lumber Outpost, making them idle. It's better to move them to a random point around the building. Also, issuing a lot of orders at the same time causes immense lags (not the usual lags, but units standing stupidly after receiving orders). The method you are using is incredibly slow. I can improve this trigger for you, if you want.

    11. Also, I've noticed that the Militia uses 2 computer-players, but I don't really know why as they both behave the same.
    11.1 When you upgrade your main, the camera moves to the other player's base with a message 'Select Tech'.
    11.2 Sometimes the Victory doesn't happen if somebody left he game and only after all the enemy Town Halls are dead.
    11.3 Sometimes the Woodcutters don't upgrade properly when the Lumbermills are upgraded. I had all lvl5 Lumbermills, but still had some lvl2/3/4 Woodcutters.
    12. When selecting the new Tech (like Fireball), you can click on all three to get them all. To fix that, you should issue at least 2 'cancel' orders to the Main Building when a Tech is researched.
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetTriggerUnit(), 851976)
    12.1 Only the Militia start producing automatically when their building is constructed. Woodcutters and Lumber Conversion/Refinement have to be produced manually (the first time), unless you're ok with waiting for the global timer (~30 sec). Also it would be handy to have hotkeys for producing these units (and lumber conversion).​
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  5. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Well, with those changes to building pathing, tower hp from levels and the crow form cooldown, I start to see the pitfall you're trying to get yourself into.
    If you were up to discussion, that would be one thing. But I guess I'll stop testing this map for a while.
    Best regards.
     
  6. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Hi. Just wanted to point out that 'game ending units' are a poor design. Why? They render ALL the other units irrelevant so that the game comes down to who can get to them first (a question of optimal build-order).

    What problem do these Tanks solve? They break the defences, which can't be broken otherwise.

    This is the real problem, while the Tanks are just an attempt to solve it (simultaneously introducing another problem).

    In the last patches you've made Towers' health go up to tens of thousands by leveling up (10% chance per kill, which is not really an exp bar, but ok). This would seemingly make Tanks justifiable, but in reality it's simply a juxtaposition of two unfun concepts. This is my opinion; someone else might actually get excited about it, but I haven't met them yet.

    I really liked the earlier versions of the map (1.32, no clue if tanks were present there as well) when the game outcome was more or less dependant on the micro-maneuvers and not only the build-order. You could put a pressure on some player by going Barracks first and then using your Wizard to kill early Towers (unless repaired). Now when the Towers level up crazily, it's not really an option with how much their hp goes up. Even less so, keeping in mind, that Repair ..well.. repairs for a percentage of max health.

    Also, you've added a cooldown to Crow Form instead of fixing the Fireball/Rain of Fire cheat. This and all of the above kinda kills the excitement for me. What seems to be an action-packed game turns into hour-long stalemates.
    And with the way you update the map, trying to cover problems instead of actually fixing them, it doesn't leave much for the imagination.

    We could discuss the intricacies of the gameflow, but I guess it takes time, so you don't even fucking reply.
    Fix your map, man.
     
  7. metalfreak

    metalfreak

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    Played it for a few times, the endgame is ridiculous its about "siege tanks" which cant be downed in time cause they have 10k life and the building amor type PLUS siege tanks dont attack siege tanks so there is no usefull counter .... there is no balance in the endgame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  8. moonturtle

    moonturtle

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    I've been playing this map quite religiously and I have to say I love a lot of things about this map. It's quickly decided and it feels like you can with the right decision have an heavy influence on your impact in the game. I haven't been exploring the endgame much since games are usually decided at around t2-t3, at least with the aggro-gold playstyle which seems to be meta.

    I'm not sure about your goals with the recent changes in 1.40. What I've noticed so far from playing it, you've added splash to the builder and given him two spells unlocked at t2 and t3. I assume your goal here is to make people use their builders more for other reasons than chopping wood.

    [Issue 1] The fireball which deals 250 damage, capable of oneshotting t1 builders, with low cd and manacost seems overtuned. At its current state anyone who tiers up first to t2 can essentially fuck over anyone who is t1.
    • Suggestion: Make a higher CD or increase manacost+decrease manaregen.

    [Issue 2] Relative to t1 units, the t1 builder is VERY strong both damage and health/regen wise. i.e in early game, the t1 builder is VERY capable of bringing down armies efficiently. The newly brought in splash effect certainly could be tuned down a bit.
    • Suggestion: Lower damage for t1 builder. Perhaps lower the health regen as well since you can abuse that by taking on armies on your own only to regenerate.

    [Issue 3 - Major issue] Players leaving before you finish off their base essentially deny you of all gold that you could've had. This is a major flaw as it can deny the attacker thousands of gold.
    • Suggestion: Give the person who last hit the building the gold before destroying? Another solution would be to just not remove anything.

    Feel free to add me on battle.net, maybe we can play and discuss while playing :)

    Regardless of these issues, I like where the direction of this map is going. The Wizard should be out in the battlefield, not at base chopping wood.

    (Here's a video that captures the aggro gold playstyle I was talking about earlier)(Sorry about the shitty mic audio, I covered most of it up with some adjusting+music)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  9. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    that was an old version, its fixed
     
  10. moonturtle

    moonturtle

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    Hey, just popping in to say that the latest patch is very enjoyable game play wise. I see that you're gathering a playerbase since I'm frequently seeing the same players over and over again, which is a great sign for a map. There's a lot of frequent players, including me, who are interested in more detailed change logs.

    If possible, could you be more specific about the changes you're making each patch?

    i.e

    Turning something like this:
    1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
    1.46 - 23/10/2019 - minor balance changes
    1.49 - 24/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing

    into:
    1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
    bla bla bla
    bla bla bla
    1.46 - 23/10/2019 - minor balance changes
    Bla bla bla
    Bla bla bla
    1.49 - 24/10/2019
    Barracks cost 250 wood instead of 450.
    Gold converters are less efficient at earlier levels (125g -> 150wood), (250g -> 300wood)
    Wizard can no longer cast fireball or flame strike.
    etc etc etc
     
  11. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    hey man, thanks for the feedback, I watched your vid, i prefer this playstyle a lot too, want to make sure lumber mills, towering is still a viable strat too though.

    The abilities were kind of just annoying, and didnt really fit the game, i just removed them. I think the splash is enough.

    The issue about the player leaving and all buildings get destroyed, i agree it kinda sucks, still thinking how i want to handle it though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  12. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    fixed
     
  13. Hancho

    Hancho

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    Hi I really like this/your map.
    - Not sure if it is/was a bug or intentional and if it was fixed in newer versions but I think it was in version 1.46 I could not destroy my cannon tower (command card button missing).
    - Not sure if it was an intentional decision but during upgrading the main building you cannot issue an attack order (it loses the ability)
    - Sometimes it is hard to tell which player will attack you and which player you will attack. It would be nice if there were a more clearer indicator maybe with a chat command that shows some text on the screen (maybe automaticly executet if a player dies and if a base is build) or something in the right upper corner where some other maps have a collapseable/expandable leaderboard.

    Thank you for making and continuously improving this map.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  14. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    Hey thanks for the feedback.

    1. that should be fixed
    2. i know about that, cant fix it sorry
    3. yea i should add that, thanks for the suggestion.
     
  15. Kerael

    Kerael

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  16. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Well, the gameplay is much more smooth and streamlined now. Mostly, for the better. But there's somewhat less space for tricks and plays. New tech choices are better, but can still be improved. Tier 5 has balance issues.
    Now, for the details:

    1. With the Lumber Refinery/Exporter rework (and probably prior to that), you can do without ANY Woodcutters past Tier 4. But there are Talents (tech choices; will call it that, since they are) for Woodcutters Harvest and Stats. Why would I go for that (excluding the slight mid-game edge it gives, which is more or less conditional, anyway) if I won't need any Woodcutters at the later stage, hence rendering these Talents useless? Serious question; may have several answers. The woodcutter talents themselves seem good.

    2. Crow Form issues.
    2.1 100 HP at Tier 5 with max wizard upgrades is just sad. Make it have a half HP of what wizard has. Heavy armor vs magic damage is a proper punishment already. Having the bird get one-shotted isn't fun and instead is prone to abuse (respawn-camping).
    2.2 Crow gives ~110 gold instead of Wizard's 250. You can use Crow Form to deny your enemy some gold.
    3. Tier 5 units' stats are blown out of proportion. Those who get to it first (Grom's Lumber Quest?) win by default. People at Tier 4 usually don't get enough time to (1) get to Tier 5 under the pressure and (2) upgrade their barracks/towers to Tier 5.
    I suggest smoothing out the Power/Tier curve and reducing the cost of the Tiers. This opinion is shared among many of the guys I've played with.
    3.1 Priests and Archers don't seem like good units for Tier 5. I mean their stats/performance. Suggest giving some aoe heal/buff spells to Priests and increasing their raw stats as well.
    4. There is a 'tech-limit' for Tier 4 Towers (can be built directly with Tier 5) of 1. It is not noticeable when you upgrade them to Tier 4, but you can only build one of these at a time.
    4.1 Tier 5 upgrades (Wizard) give mana regen, but there is no mana. Giving both attack damage and attack speed is busted. Remove the attack speed component of this upgrade, since there is already a talent for Wizard attack speed (could be buffed, since it only affects 1 unit, instead of a 100, as for the other options).
    5. Having some ability options was great. I understand that you'd go for them most of the time, neglecting the other ones. It tells me that the abilities should be implemented in some other way, not just removed.
    For example: Tier 1 and Tier 5 give you 3 abilities to choose from.
    Tier 1 abilities are basic like weak Firebolt, Entangle (light damage, mostly to prevent repair) and Drunken Haze (I dunno, something to affect a group of infantry); the cooldowns should be around 15-20 seconds; total damage around a 100; stuns - 2 sec; roots ~ 10 sec.
    Tier 5 abilities are somewhat ultimate: Rain of Fire (channeled anti-infantry mostly, big aoe, Building Reduction field ~ 33%), Flamestrike (good vs buildings and can open up the treelines, medium aoe) and Breath of Fire (medium range anti-captain/tank spell, medium damage, high burn dps when combined with drunken haze).
    I do not wish this map to become an ability-fest, but at least some interactions must be implemented in order for it to deviate from a 2D Castle Fight.
    6. Repair Rate on Town Hall is very, very slow. If you double-base with someone, you are doomed after they get 4 towers attacking your main since you cannot outrepair the 40 piercing dps. And said tower are repaired in 5 sec.
    Even in a normal game, it's not right. Late tier towers are also slowly repaired, make the difference smaller.
    Most of the numbers in game are way out of proportion, but it's more balanced compared to previous versions. However there's fewer options now so there's that.
     
  17. 3nemy_

    3nemy_

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    Your map has been forked by a player called Frodo6T9Bag and he named it Lumber TD 2.71 ProMode.
    Needless to say map is a disaster and I'm not even sure if it's a joke version or not, but you might want to consider protecting your work in future.


    Regarding your map. In last few vers I noticed at certain point in game when at Tier 4 or 5 I am unable to build more than 5 towers, the tower icon disappears, it's definitely not food related as I have enough supply so my question is if this is intentional or not?
     
  18. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    That bug should be fixed now. I know about the troll map lol, I really dont mind.
     
  19. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Wanted to play an aggro opening, but it wasn't optimal because of the positions.
    The game turned out to be pretty normal, as in average. Gametime-wise as well.
    I don't really expect you to watch the whole video as I hope you don't expect us to play whole hours, basically watching militia most of the time.
    Excuse the crappy mic.



    P.S. By changes like: making cooldowns longer, increasing costs, and so on, you aren't really balancing the map so much as just drawing it out across time.
    Make weaker, cheaper options so the game feels somewhat dynamic.
    And please, playtest your map yourself every so often to get in sync with what it's like, how much real time it takes on average and, most importantly, to get a practical heads up about the necessary fixes and updates.
    Ppl will usually complain in lobby and in game, so take note! :)