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Love

Discussion in 'Medivh's Tower' started by LiOneSS, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. Gespenst

    Gespenst

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    Soul mates as in fated or as in a deep connection?

    Fate is subjugatory to both random events and the effecteds' will.

    A deep connection, one that roots to the soul, can also be attributed to "soul mates."

    I don't know if my maternal grandparents were soul mates, they fought alot and threatened divorce(When they were reallt old), but they stayed together and at least looked like they loved each other most of the time.
     
  2. Hakeem

    Hakeem

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    Either one. It's easier to go with "deep connection" when it appears fate fails us.
     
  3. Kimbo

    Kimbo

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    Then that would relate to masochism my good friend.

    Wrong, read what i said again. Thats just your warped sense of reality. Blaming the "world" when you spill milk, blaming the "cat" when it poops on your carpet. Blaming the "world" when your friends be mean to you. Stop blaming and change the world a tiny bit by actually observing your problem, trying to fix it and accept it, and while you are at it, dont be a problem to other people. Such a difference can change ones sense of reality, and its very beautiful...While you, you seem to agree with being a problem and blaming the world without a logical reason instead of being calm, rational and accepting things just happen.


    No shit. But does that make it logically and factually correct according to everyones sense of unique reality and perception?



    Yes, becuase as for example, saying your future/current lover is a whore who will molest your childen and piss in your bed while you are with her, she will whore for crack and apply for pornos, she will never love you and just wants your manhood- isnt an insult? Do you understand how that feels?

    Dont ever tell people what their relationships are without evidence and a totally sense of ZERO understanding again. And dont ever tell people they are wrong without a logical and factual reason besides everyday situations and events that can be applied to almost any emotional concept.

    My attitude doesnt effect my key points, explanations and the subject at hand. If anything you should be grateful im not being you to yourself on how you treat people.
    And you see that? Now that was personal, again with another insult. You simply took that one "TOO" far, mocking what I believe of myself (yet i clearly dont think im sane at all) is okay, but bashing my own sense of insecurity and paranoia is a different matter.

    WRONG WRONG WRONG.
    I claim your idea of love is delusional according to my beliefs. Not once did I say you have "no" idea what love is.
    But that doesnt make it "wrong" or "inncorrect" to the world.

    Also, what was the concept I preached to you about? Id like some quotes besides a single sentence besides a vague branch of love. I never explained what I think love as a whole, the concept itself is, I merely explained related factors withing love but not love itself, so how could you say that?

    Its the fact you put in other factors that one wouldnt often mishmash with the concept called "love".
    And calling you a hypocrite is just as valid as calling you a liar about your points, especially when I explain why.
    And how am I putting you down about your "issue"? Becuase I call the people who put you down for it ignorant? Gee, thanks. I can offer my support anytime for you, not.

    "Take your own advice and get out, until you can come back with your own sack of maturity."

    "And don't ever tell me what to do again."

    Funny thing is, you dont actually point out why im not being mature, isntead your point seems to be that i am being mature and thats annoying you. You dont really even point out why im actually wrong, instead I see a whole lot of ad hominens and excuses "You say i blah blah, but you blah blah TOO!".

    You also still havnt answered alot of my questions and points, why? Becuase you cannnot answer them?

    And Hakeem, the benefits of acceptings another persons opinion is to acknowlege the meaningful factors in their opinion, to divulge and understand another persons point of view to improve your own, to acknowlege they actually exist, can and should, just like yours has a right to exist and be said.
     
  4. Elenai

    Elenai

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    While you cannot accept the reality that "this world sucks".

    And let me guess...you are the matriarch of logic.

    Personally, I just laughed at the idea.

    Zero understanding? Hardly.

    No evidence? Provided.

    Telling people they are wrong? You do it all the time...I can to.

    Oh look...there it is.

    It is no more an insult than half the things people have said to me about 'me'. Deal with it, I'm no more flaming you than the person who looks at me and calls me egotistical.

    You certainly portrayed yourself as doing just that.

    That love is completely vague, and that you cannot say 'love is this' when I believe you can. And portraying it in a matter that smacked me in the face and tried to say 'you are wrong, you are delusional, you are not correct, your experiences are false, your conclusion based on what life has given you is a lie."

    People over look these factors, and say they don't exist.

    You haven't...

    I've certainly never seen it, and often times you tend to get snippy with me over anything connected with me.

    I've supported you, so don't think that you are alone in this. My problem with you is that you've turned from being 'I have my flaws' to 'I have become flawless, and I am now better than you.' Or if you don't you certainly have portrayed yourself as such to me.

    First of all, you aren't being mature because you want me to accept your view, and not mine.

    You are wrong because you think love is vague, when it isn't, and you try to uphold this utopian ideal that the world is vague, that everything is subjective and this...stupid world of 'ladida rainbows if I believe", and the world is an entirely wretched place and if I were to grind it down and sift through it I would find maybe 1/1000th of it to be 'good', or 'kind', or 'decent', and it irks me entirely that you call me delusional, when you don't even realize the failure of this planet to even maintain an ounce of decency.

    I am mad, because everyone is telling me I'm wrong, and that I am insane, and you are amongst the loudest voices, and you are the one who totes about going 'everything is subjective'.

    And to note, I'm not being particularly kind, because every time I turn around some idiot in life is telling me that things I've sat down and thought the Hell out of is wrong. And you often come up to me, and tell me that I am wrong about things I believe.

    And to be quite honest I am getting sick and tired of being 'calm' with everyone, when I'd much rather reach my hand down their throats and pull their legs through their mouths from the inside, because when ever I am calm and logical, I get screwed.

    If you want your apology you can have it, but I am becoming entirely spiteful of this pitiful race of apes that walk around pissing on everything and calling it plant watering, and I will not walk around with them believing every trashcan is full of rainbows like they want me to.
     
  5. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    You're not insane. I just can't decipher the argument for all the hot air.

    Love and suffering are related, though.

    ~Soul-Mate~
    In what way? I believe in life after death, and that marriages (and thus families) can be made eternal and lasting throughout the eternities... If that is what you mean, then yes. Soul Mates FTW.
     
  6. Dr00d

    Dr00d

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    Love finds you in the most fucked up of places. =P

    And you don't need to suffer for love, love should fill you with happiness. If you're suffering through it... well that's more torching yourself rather then being happy with someone you care about.
     
  7. Elenai

    Elenai

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    And what about when you don't happy? What happens when you get mad, or sad? What about when she tells you that you do nothing, and that you haven't earned your way? What then? Does the love end? Gone because you aren't feeling giddy and crushful?
     
  8. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    You find a new girlfriend...?
     
  9. Dr00d

    Dr00d

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    A fight you say? Ah, a very good question. One option being giving in. Odds are it's something petty, something that won't matter by this time next week, let it go, don't ruin something like love over something small. And no, that's not suffering, it's sacrifice, which if you do really care about the person, should be a good experience, not something you slug through.

    It's about sharing an experience with someone else, good and bad. Key point is to focus on the good.



    EDIT: It's also about getting liad, no point in lying.
     
  10. Elenai

    Elenai

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    *Facepalm*
     
  11. WILL THE ALMIGHTY

    WILL THE ALMIGHTY

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    Elenai is the DSG of love.
     
  12. Dr00d

    Dr00d

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    Yes, you said that, but you make it sound like a painful task, not something fun.
     
  13. Elenai

    Elenai

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    Love is like gardening. Its hot, awful, and dirty...and you get covered in bugs, and you can't quite get the smell of weed killer off your clothes...But hey...fresh veggies, and delicious strawberries in the end.

    Get the point now?

    Geez..I had to resort to another metaphor...
     
  14. Gespenst

    Gespenst

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    If the world was perfect and there were no strifes, where would the suffering in love be? True love would be just as pure without suffering than with.

    However, this world is not perfect and is full of idiots and bastards trying to line their pockets with gold, but true love can still be found, albiet a bit strained by this imperfected world.

    To say that love is suffering is to put love into a small box with a small defintion, with no other feature to it.

    Love is love, you will indeed have to work for it, suffer a bit, but suffering is not what makes love love. It is a quality that will inevitably be attached to it, but love is more than just suffering for the target of your affections.

    Cabbage(and other vegatables) can be grown nearly effortlessly, with only your attention in seeding and harvesting, suspended in water.

    Counter-metaphor.
     
  15. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    There's nothing wrong with a metaphor if you don't extend it beyond 3 or so posts.

    That being said, yes, I guess love can be described in the gardening process. But your desire to eat those delicious veggies and fruits is what inspires you to withstand the painstaking process that is gardening, and I think that constitutes love moreso than the work itself. The suffering becomes a part of it, but it only serves to reinforce that attachment to the produce you want to create.
     
  16. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Yeah! Suffering != Love. I think that's what she's been trying to say (at least, it's what I've been saying, IIRC)

    I would submit that True Love is found in serving your significant other. Call it "putting them ahead of you" or whatever you want.
    And/or, Loving someone, regardless of individual faults. Loving someone like our Heavenly Father loves us.
     
  17. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

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    So true love is being whipped? I'm sure she would agree :smile:
     
  18. Deep Sea Kraken

    Deep Sea Kraken

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    Love is whatever you want it to be.

    Simple as that.
     
  19. Kimbo

    Kimbo

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    Sorry guys, another long post :/ You can ignore me if you want.

    Except, I accept reality and the world in the sense of what "I" make of it. Just like you.

    No, let me guess, you are too?

    That's because I wasn't serious.

    Then where is it? Metaphors and examples based on everyday situations that doesn't even have to involve love isnt evidence. Ever heard of that syndrome where some mothers go through a phase/stage on wanting to kill their baby out of love, eg drowning and mircowave? Yeah, sounds like love to me, seriously...but in a twisted sense which I dont agree with but accept.

    Except, unlike you, I do it with reason to back up my claim.

    Its not about calling people wrong, its about you calling people wrong with ignorance and no proper evidence to support your claim. So yes, you are doing it wrong.

    I am dealing with it if you couldn't notice. And you seem to misunderstand personal insults compared simple descriptive words about attitude and belief. Just like you, I have a right to say I feel insulted but you seem to not have empathy or understanding yet you talk of caring for people so much.

    Except, here you go again, making claims without actual facts or constructive points. I have explained myself with reason unlike you. The same as I repeat "You do it too" bullshit which ISN'T constructive in this debate at all.

    WRONG. Here you go again putting words in my mouth.
    I said LOVE is DEFINED by a person, which means it can have a BROAD range of definitions. I said ANYONE can define/say what love is based on their own experiences, thats my whole damn point if you havnt read all my replies.
    Find me some quotes for this, because im sure I dont have amnesia:
    That doesnt mean they do based on their own unique perception. Love is what you make of it. And YES, to some people it doesn't exist and to some it doesnt, its a matter of what you perceive. What you seem to apply though is that they HAVE to exist or their love is "false" and a "method of getting in the pants" from what I have gathered from your opinions.

    .
    Yeah, let me quote it for you because you cant seem to even read what you reply to.
    Yes, because one quote was clearly not enough:
    Now, this is a little offtopic so excuse me:

    But I am a very flawed person, but that doesnt mean everything I say I perceive as a flaw. I afterall am human, I am no more truly pure than any other being I perceive. But instead of whining and bitching about my flaws iv learnt to do more constructive things other than ignoring them or bitching.

    I have been through my own personal hardships and made so many regrettable mistakes, but I have learnt I shouldn't let them eat me away into submission, but I should analyze and embrace any future mistakes so I may learn from them. You can get a happy and productive person when you let them see a mirror that shows them the positive things they have done and can achieve in life instead of what they have done wrong and cant do.

    But granted, I am still human, and my biggest flaw but greatest achievement that no other person can do better is being simply "me", having the life and seeing the world as Samantha. Iv made mistakes, i still do, but there is no good being done when you bitch and whine about spilt milk when you can clean it up and relax and indulge yourself, the fact you are still alive to perceive your own reality as yourself, uniquely.

    Yes, I want you to accept my view, understand it exists, can exist, has a right to exist and that in this world it correlates and is correct to how or some people feel. Just like any other persons opinion, love is like a piece of artwork or a review of a great movie. Its all about personal meaning applied based on ones life experiences and perception.

    The thing you have is a TERRIBLE issue, you think I want you to AGREE with me and thats where you wrong. Read what I have said above.

    Also, that has nothing to do with being mature or immature. Why? Because im being rational, im holding my key points and answering everything you have to offer becuase I like being constructive and [READ THE STUFF BELOW]. I have not resorted to personal insults or ad hominens in an irrelavant matter that doesnt improve the key points at hand.

    Also. You played the "NO U". What do you think this is? Personal insult ping pong to dodge points? Does bashing my own flaws or flaws you perceive make yours any less visible or apparent, especially when the flaws im pointing out are constructive to the actual argument and points your present at hand?

    So im wrong...because my own perception and my own personal experiences of life are "different" than yours? Reality is what you make of it, not one single person who I have never met in rl being you. I accept the world for what it is, i dont bitch and moan about it and use excuses to make it a worser place for myself and others. Stop repeating yourself and I will too because its getting annoying and my posts is getting boringly long.

    And you expect others to not be mad when you tell them their whole love life is wrong when you dont even know their name or seen their faces?
    I want you to see both fences, thats my point here, not just your own as you throw rubbish over your neighbors fence. You still havnt understood and im pretty sure i have said, I find you wrong according to my own personal opinion of what I perceive as love. But in the sea of peoples personal definitions and opinions, you are no more or less right or wrong than anyone else, just like me. And that has been my point all along but you seem to think i have some "YOU ARE WRONG I AM RIGHT, YOU SUCK LOLOL LOVE IS A SEXFEST" bullshit point.

    Hey, guess what? The world is cruel get use to it, since you believe in that phase. Either whine and use excuses or learn to use reason to understand and grab value in their opinions to improve your own.

    Irrelevant to the vital points of the argument at hand. If you cant control your own emotions in an argument thats your problem. Dont make excuses to validate your wrong doings or how you mistreat or abuse people. I understand we are humans as its the burden of being human, but get a grip.

    I dont want an apology, i dont even want an agreement or some form of submission. I'v been talking to you here for understanding and self improvement. I want you to accept my view, as with other peoples like I have with yours. and like i have...said..so many countless times.. NOT AGREE.
    But most of all, like I explained, I want you to see through the eyes of another, and understand what its like and accept reality can be different to your own perception.

    And to be honest if you want to take it literally and logically. Urine is more beneficial to a plant than water due to the products and minerals in urine.

    I have been through my own personal stages of depression and obsessive with self harm, I have seen and understood my personal experience of the darker side of life. And I believe its time to smile.

    I didn't come here to fight, sure to argue in a constructive sense but to improve everyone opinions as well as my skills. But I mainly came here to impact on how people think, for them to analyze others and then themselves to improve. That is why I am here, not for spite, not for revenge, but to benefit everyone. Because I want to make this world a better place, i want to make everyone's sense and reality itself a better place. If you want to live in a world of glooms and angst, thats your choice. Be a pessimist all you want, just understand you have the easy, logical, fullfilling and productive choice of being in the easy middle of the 2 extremes.
     
  20. Hakeem

    Hakeem

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    That is why we debate.
    By responding to each others posts in a debate, this is done. Of course, this does not mean that if someone ignores your points that they are not accepting your view at all. Mere participation in a debate means that we accept each others arguments as holding value of some sort. If we didn't accept each others opinions, participating in the debate would be beneath us.

    I "accept" Elenai's definition of love as his opinion and a valid argument to debate, though I do not think the words he is using to convey it are literally correct.
    If this is the case, then soul mates are acquired, and thus love can be with anyone, and that all love is true. I'd say a requirement of soul mates is that they are determined beforehand.
    These feelings are only here for a visit. They will leave when they are good and ready, or when you shove them out the door.


    It does require a good eye. Perhaps I can help:
    From what I gather, your opinion is that we cannot in any way define love, and that it is entirely subjective. That much I think is clear, but the majority of what you appear to be arguing, is, by definition, ad hominem. You are attacking Elenai's perceived inability to accept other peoples opinions, instead of debating his definition of love. While it may be a valid argument, it is a different subject of debate.
    This is not exactly something you can demand. Sometimes you may be able to see from others' points of view, but others times you may be completely unable to do so.
    Sidenote.
    I think you two (Elenai and Kimberly) need to have a chat unrelated to this subject, so that you can afterwards debate this subject, instead of -- what appears to me to be -- pent up tension.