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Lords of Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by GolluM_KoMe, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. Tleno

    Tleno

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    Well just poke CyberDuel with a stick and make him give the newest version :D
     
  2. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    Well I tried a few times; nevermind I ll work on the late version :)
    Btw for to counter the defensive tactics, you can attack by the sea no ?? xD
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2011
  3. Tleno

    Tleno

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    Shouldn't ground and sea attack be approximatelly balanced so both would be same way useful?
     
  4. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    Well maybe ... but how to counter a lot of towers just next to the entrance ?? i would need more space to make a bigger gap between the entrance and the walls, but the towns wouldnt be big enough :(.
    BTW GREAT NEWS !! i found a way to make units go out of town REAAAALLY easily :). now you just click on the map and the units go exactly where u pointed, and it works wherevere you are :)
    + ur idea to transfer resources was rather easy to do ;) (but has to be tested !!)
     
  5. Tleno

    Tleno

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    So what movement system did you implement for town entering/leaving?
     
  6. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    When a unit in the town receives the order to get out, it's first told to go in the entrance and its target (the point out of the town) is saved and when it gets next to the teleport, it's told to get to this point, and it uses the teleport well :)
     
  7. Tleno

    Tleno

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    Genious.
     
  8. Desktop_General

    Desktop_General

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    I don't think the lumberjack stuff you're adding in 2.8 improves your map much, but I think I figured out why it keeps crashing. First of all, I disabled the Regrow Trees Setup and RegrowTrees triggers. The second of those is quite complicated, and the map still crashes without them. I hope that even with those triggers enabled, my solution will work, but I didn't test it.

    However, after much trial and error, once I changed
    • Destructible - Remove TreeOfArdumir2

    to
    • Destructible - Kill TreeOfArdumir2

    it stopped crashing.

    I would rewrite the two lumberjack triggers like this:
    Lumberjack11
    • Lumberjack11
      • Events
        • Unit - A unit enters BuildingPosition6 <gen>
      • Conditions
        • (Triggering unit) Equal to LumberjackArdumir
      • Actions
        • Wait 1.00 seconds
        • Animation - Reset (Triggering unit)'s animation
        • Set TreeOfArdumir = (Random destructible in ArdumirTrees <gen> matching (((Destructible-type of (Matching destructible)) Equal to Ruins Tree Wall) and (((Matching destructible) is alive) Equal to True)))
        • Unit - Order (Triggering unit) to Attack TreeOfArdumir

    and
    Lumberjack12
    • Lumberjack12
      • Events
        • Destructible - A destructible within ArdumirTrees <gen> dies
      • Conditions
        • (Dying destructible) Equal to TreeOfArdumir
      • Actions
        • Wait 1.35 seconds
        • Set POINT = (Position of (Dying destructible))
        • Destructible - Create a Ruins Tree Wall (Down) at POINT facing (Random real number between 0.00 and 359.00) with scale 1.00 and variation (Random integer number between 0 and 9)
        • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_POINT)
        • Wait 0.01 seconds
        • Set TreeOfArdumir2 = (Random destructible in ArdumirTrees <gen> matching ((Destructible-type of (Matching destructible)) Equal to Ruins Tree Wall (Down)))
        • Wait 0.10 seconds
        • Unit - Order LumberjackArdumir to Attack TreeOfArdumir2
        • Wait 20.00 seconds
        • Destructible - Kill TreeOfArdumir2
        • Set POINT = (Center of BuildingPosition6 <gen>)
        • Unit - Order LumberjackArdumir to Move To POINT
        • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_POINT)
        • Wait 0.01 seconds
        • Animation - Play LumberjackArdumir's Walk Lumber animation

    For Lumberjack11 I just added a condition and removed the if-then-else function. For Lumberjack12 I changed the remove destructible to kill destructible as mentioned. Hopefully that helps.

    Also, I noticed the lumberjack stopped working after he chopped down a tree that was close to the lumbermill. Probably he was so close that he never left the region, so he didn't enter it on his way back to the lumbermill.

    BTW, it takes me a very long time to open, save, and start a game of your map. Is it the same for you?
     
  9. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    It cannot be that, it's since the very first version :))
    ow yer great idea !! The problem with it is that there is a tree animation when it dies (the Down one) and it sucks xD + there remains a stump I think, that will not be removed and there can be an accumulation of those, especially with a lot of players, which, I think, will cause lags.
    But maybe it doesnt crash if you remove it after it's dead .... OW !! maybe it crashed only because the lumberjack still attacked it when it was removed !! so he could find his target and BAZINGA ! It crashes ! xD I must try this way !! ooooor ! It might comes from the fact that removing a variable doesnt only removes the tree but also destroys completly the variable itself and when the game has to set it (as a new tree), as it doesnt exist anymore, it crashes :) It would explain why it crashes only the second time the lumberjack triggers Lumberjack12 (each trigger must be verified (the whole trigger) each time they are triggered and there the game saw the variable was lacking)
    Great work I guess !! thanks a lot for ur time ;) I owe u help :)
    Ah ye I know that and it's really easy to fix
    Ooooow yer xD It's so annoying ... and it s getting worse and worse ... have u seen the number of triggers, regions, units .... it's a nightmare to work on this map... At my father's btw I have access to a great computer so it's there I do the laggiest stuff (the new units and unit tips mostly).
    Ow btw !! Which animal do u want as a pet on the map ?? U absolutly need to get one !!

    It's so hard to talk with u, u're everywhere !! in map forum, on this forum, on walls, with private messages .... xD Thanks again dude ;)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  10. Desktop_General

    Desktop_General

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    Oh okay. I was just letting you know that I didn't test the solution with those 2 triggers enabled.

    I can give some ideas about your other concerns. I haven't tested them.
    Is the stump the corpse of the destructible then? I think you can affect corpse decay. Maybe you can change the decay of the last created corpse if it was a tree. I saw a thread by someone about tree regrowth. I'm sure that deals with the stump in some way.

    If that's true you could order him to stop or to right click his current position before you remove the tree. I think stop will sometimes occur after the current order, but having him right click his current position definitely interrupts any orders. However, I think when you remove destructibles it causes leaks doesn't it? I am not sure. I know when you kill it, it doesn't.

    If that's true, you could reset the variable (like to no unit or whatever).

    For me it crashed every time Lumberjack12 was run. Visually, it looks like it happens as soon as he heads back to the lumbermill with lumber. It's definitely the remove destructible function that is causing it, so it happens the first time.

    No problem. :)

    Yeah. It's crazy. If I work on your map, I keep it open in the world editor until I'm done. Even if I don't work on it for hours. It still takes a long time to save, though. One solution might be to make a version with lots of stuff removed like doodads and other stuff, so you can work on triggers and test them faster.

    Oh really? That isn't necessary. I haven't done very much to help you. If you still want to do it, a dog or a rat would be cool.

    I'm sorry. I was happy talking to you in your map thread, but tleno commented on it. So I tried visitor messages, but those are only good for short communications. I used the private message because I was letting you know something I didn't want other people to know. I thought maybe this thread would be good for work on your map. What do you prefer?
     
  11. Tleno

    Tleno

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    general, you actually did enough to be added to credits list. I mean, you have given more feedback than I did during all that time from map release until you came in. so you definetly deserve it... wait did I get a pointless-peasant-who-walks-around-like-critter-with-my-name-on-it myself?
    Oh, and I'm sure this thread should work.
     
  12. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    Compared to those who have pets ... xD Plus you might be the person that know the map the best with me and Tleno perhaps :)
    Well anything I don't care it was to joke :). btw posting on this makes this forum in first position, while having a lot of comments on the map is good too ... xD
    Btw the solution was to remove the tree by telling the game to remove a random tree of this kind (Down) instead of removing the destructable variable.
    Btw what do u think about town animations ?? I'd like to add a lot of them, with some decorations that spawns when the town get bigger (especially near the townhall where nothing can be built). With citizen/dogs hanging around to make the game more alive. Maybe some dummy traders that link your town to your allies' ones.
    I also wanted to add a new way for factions to attack players : a siege ! (outside the city) with more forces, but they wouldn t be annoying in your town. The only problem would be the invulnerable Trebuchet you can make at the top of your town xD
    Well I still have too many ideas xD But I should first fix the annoying stuff before doing these ...

    Hum ye ... maybe xD I must add you too sry Tleno ... But I think u're already in the credits btw
     
  13. Desktop_General

    Desktop_General

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    That's very good to know! I bet that causes crashes in other maps sometimes. Hopefully I'll be able to avoid this mistake now. :)

    You've given us a great map. Whatever you do at this point is icing on the cake (something good on top of something that is already good). Time is precious. You should spend it how you want.

    In my opinion, it depends on how you implement the animations. If they really make the town feel more real, then I guess they might be worth it. If they add to the game play in some way, that might be even better (although that might complicate an already complicated map).

    I thought of having some in my map. For example, on your estate, you can build hovels and farmhouses for other farmers, and I was thinking of having those farmers work for you as a form of automation. They would harvest crops and take care of weeds and other pests.

    I think you could have done something similar for your lumberjack. Since there is already a lumber collection system in Warcraft III, it may have been less work to revert your lumber mill system to that, and just have it be automated. That would have taken care of the animation for you. I guess that wouldn't handle the quarries, though. BTW, you should change the attack type of your dummy lumberjack to metal chop.

    Your defenses inside town wouldn't be able to help you. It might make it difficult for players to leave their town, although they might be able to leave by ship unless you blockaded their harbor. That might further discourage conflict between the players. However, you could always make peace with the factions and just war with the players.

    That would be nice. I think the two most useful things would be to:

    1) Simplify the game, or make it easier to learn. More ideas:

    a) Hero selection: Removing the runes might help, but there's nothing that tells you to move your wisp over a rune to choose a hero. It's even more confusing because you have power circles in the area too, and those are traditionally used to choose heroes. Please give instructions at the beginning. If someone moves over a power circle, you could further instruct them to move their wisp over a rune to choose a hero. For the towns that have two entrances/exits, please add that information to the town info.

    b) Jobs & housing: As players create jobs, or periodically, instruct players to what housing they need. Maybe let them know what benefits there are if they build it, or as they build something that's needed, let them know what benefit they will gain. For example, "Your middle class inhabitants will increase by 6 (+36 income, +6 population)". Actually, change the tooltip for the town upgrade button to refer to inhabitants instead of population, then you could remove references to population. You could refer them to the leaderboard. Allow them to stop these messages if they want, and let them know how to do so.

    c) Town level: I like tleno's idea of letting players know what they need need to do to upgrade their town to the next level. That would be a nice periodic message. Speaking of which, please change the tooltips for building requirements so that they refer to "town level" instead of just "level". Players sometimes think they have to level their hero before they can build new buildings. :)

    2) Fix bugs.
     
  14. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    I love this expression xD In france we say "The cherry on the cake" ^^
    U can harvest Weed ?? xDD
    Ah ye I'll try !
    Ah ! I wanted to remake the diplomatic system. To ask for peace, you would need to give them money, not just wait 10 min xD. Plus if u anally a faction, it'd have a chance to declare war ON u ^^
    Ow !! I just did that 10 min later ^^ (+I removed the circles of power)
    There is a hint for this (you know, those random that appear each 3 min)
    Good point ! Btw for jobs/accomodation stuff, I'll add a message each time you need to build extra houses :)
    Clever ! I'll make it in 2.9! (or 3.0 if you wanna make 2.9 :)
    Done :)
     
  15. Tleno

    Tleno

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    Erm, there are seaweed too, Gollum :D
    Well es, I'd say there should be some kind of advisor system added, which would inform you that you are required to build some specific structures, ally faction (when you can) and such. It should notify that hero is unselectable when you come to one of them, too.
     
  16. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    I'll add weed plantation in LoME, but Gondor mustn t see you or sends soldiers to burn it out xD
    There would be a black market where you could sell it. If a hero uses it it increases his mana while decreases his life. You can also get coca plantations but you must have factory which turns it in cocaine. Yer !!! xD I could make possible for 1 player (if there is at least 3 players on the map) to be the chief of a kind of mafia. he also get a town, but cannot get population (or in a different way). he could make only specific units and can produce stuff (on the map area) that only him can produce!! Would be fun xDDD he would have like a Pirate Nest you see ?
    What do u think about it ?? (I mean really, not joking for the end!!)
    Yep! my next mission!
    Now the runes disapear, it's much more understandable :)
     
  17. Tleno

    Tleno

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    Hmmm, that's definetly not Lord of the Ringish, I'd say... I mean, you don't want to make Tolkeyn roll in his grave, don't you?
    Though idea of some crime cartel with players belonging on one side and having a cammon enemy (The law), but still competiting with each other for higher ranks, would be intresting. You should probably leave these concepts for some other, LOTR unrelated project... if you're going to make one, of course.

    Excelent.

    Yes, okay... that will work I suppose.
     
  18. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    No, but with
    I didn't mean drugs, I meant manufactured items such as Ropes to board ships (to plunder/capture them), Traps (to block a Packsaddle horse that was passing by), and other things that bandits/pirates need. Maybe also stuff with precious stone.
    So you would have an Island which has a zoom (exactly like the other town). In this you could produce wood, Iron, Precious Stone and one other new stuff (no cattle/plantations as it's little an Island xD).
    You have the same system of Level but the limitation wouldnt be the population but the something else I've got to figure out xD.
    You cannot seize towns to faction but you can make 2 colonies (1since level 3, a second since level 4) at 5/6 spots that are defined on the map and where you can produce a new kind of stuff.
    You can build the same basic buildings (manufactures, towers, barracks...) but the advanced buildings would be different (they would be those who produce ropes etc )
    You would have the best choices of ships. There would be a new system for ships : They all have mana which defines the number of soldier they contain. Each time a ship is attacked, it looses a smal amount of mana (as some men can be touched too :). Some specific boats would have a better "mana burn" (if you see what I mean ^^) (like a boat full of archers). When you Board a ship, there is random losses in each boat and the looser is the one that have no mana. When a ship boards an other, they both become invulnerable. If the pirate wins, he gets Gold if the ship belonged to a faction, and get the ship. Otherwise the pirate ship is just destroyed. If, by an other manner, a ship looses its seamen, you just have to send a rope.
    Thus there would be patrols of boats over the sea by the factions.
    You would have new kind of soldiers that have skill like plundering etc...
    Ah ye ! When you would normally get a town (a town over the map, like Gobel Ancalimon), you don't capture it but you get a huge amount of gold (but you must wait a long time before it becomes lucrative to plunder it once again).
    You are always at war against the factions (which regularly send u boats/troops) in your pirate nest + your colonies.
    You couldnt ally a player but can declare war on them and plunder their miserable town!!
    This way there would be more fight between players.
    Well while I typed it, I thought about your nest; you would in fact maybe get population but much less.
    You would begin with less resources than the others and your victory conditions would be different. Hum it must be rethought but it could be soooo fun xD.
    ooooor ! An alternative map in which there are only 6 normal players (and only 6 towns, I could remove Methir and Endil) and 2 outsiders: 1 Pirate and 1 Bandit, or 2 Pirates, or 2 pirates in the same town, in cooperation xD
    Tell me what u think about it !!


    EDIT: ah btw where do u want ur Tleno on LoME ??
     
  19. Tleno

    Tleno

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    Well bandtis are suiting the Lotr, so yes, this could work... but not pirates.
    You know, I am now going to give a pretty simple suggestion:
    When you reach final level, you can choose Outlaw instead of elves or orcs.
    So you get some outlaw units, such as pillagers, bandits and such. You get some of structures replaced and you become more of pillaging/warfare faction snd production becomes less effective.
     
  20. GolluM_KoMe

    GolluM_KoMe

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    LoTR ?? Not suitable for pirates ??? Why is that ?? + it's way better than "bandit" ^^ + you have an Island, an Isla Tortuga, it owns !! Or if you want we call them "Corsairs".
    Hum why not! But the problem is that I wanted the CorsarianPiratyBandit to get a new place with really new buildings and a new system of population/income. The player would loose everything and would have to start again from scratch (or almost). + I wanted him to get 3 new heroes, real corsairs with skills that really makes you pull one's hair out xD.
    I really wanna make this pirate nest (btw there is already one if played the map lately ^^). Ye or maybe you could loose ur heroes, and get a part the money you used in your late Town... Why not after level 4 !! But sooner than with the 40 renown stuff. Maybe the first one that click on it and pay 4000 gold.

    Edit :