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Jungle Trolls Reborn 5.8.1

Submitted by gadina_prokleta
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Host map Arrange game
Gadina Prokleta Presents

JUNGLE TROLLS REBORN
by A.Dominion and Gadina Prokleta
Version 5.8.1


► Both major bugs of the game should be finally FIXED:​
• The game desynchronization at game start should not happen anymore!
• The bug with items lost upon death is now fixed!
• In order to reduce overpopulation, initial beast spawn is randomly decreased by app. 10%.​
► There is a dedicated network for Jungle Trolls Reborn in Tunngle (see here for details).​

Map Info:

You must survive,
gather resources,
build your village and
protect your Totem from the other evil troll tribes in the Jungle.

Loading Screen picture by Cindy Nyan

[​IMG]


Playable Classes:

You can choose among four troll heroes, each having different skills and item recipes:
The fierce and mighty WARRIOR,
The silent and insidious HUNTER,
The wise and creepy SHAMAN,
The ingenious and crafty INVENTOR.

The Troll classes

[​IMG]


Gameplay Variety:

You can craft various weapons, items and buildings and combine them
dependent on the class of the chosen troll and the necessities of the tribe.
The world is changing and going its own course through the game.
The game is rich of possibilities. There can't be two JTR games exactly the same.

A well armed Warrior in action

[​IMG]


Features:

- rich game world, full of hidden dangers and secrets;
- breeding animals, which can be hunted, tamed or even zombified;
- cute little cubs and mighty boss beasts, cunning enemies and evil allies;
- changing weather affecting the gameplay in many aspects;
- complete freedom of movement and choice of tactics.

A Hunter with his pet

[​IMG]


Creators:

The game is based on A.Dominion's Jungle Troll Tribes (5.5).
In the middle of year 2006 with the written permission of the author
the map was reworked and improved by gadina_prokleta.

Subsequently A.Dominion joined the development team
and did a great work to further improve and extend the game.

The game was developed with the help of many
contributors from all around the world:
Dark Angel (beta testing, tooltips),
ElloElloEllo (modelling),
GothicMage and Jimmehdean (hosting, beta testing),
BIOEngineer (Russian game community, beta testing)
and many others.

Official Site
Website


More Info
Wiki


For updates and contact:
Facebook page



Keywords:
troll, trolls, jungle trolls, jungle troll tribes, reborn, gadina, prokleta, survival
Contents

Jungle Trolls Reborn 5.8 (Map)

Reviews
Moderator
15:59, 4th Dec 2008 Rui: The map is known to me. The previous version was approved, so I guess this one will pass too. Note, please use the Update button to submit a new version.
  1. Viei

    Viei

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    Awkward moment: description says 5.6.16, downloaded map says 5.6.20, www.jungletrolls.org malfunctions.
     
  2. chessboxing

    chessboxing

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    Some forest randomize triggers

    Hi

    I was inspired by JTR map and started thinking how you can randomize forests to differ every time a map starts. So here is a simple randomizing mechanism with around 9 general variations for randomizing a circle or square-like tree line forest (like these used in JTR). It could be used also for 4 separate regions on different places on the map. It uses loop that proceeds for a large number of small forests (map example is 10 forests).
    The triggers contain some info + some editor sounds and effects / camera to show the changes. Random values of the variables are displayed for reference.
    Also there are some basic triggers for buttons/gate/teleport.
    Variations are like: wide entrance (4 or 5 trees opening from a side) / narrow entrance (1 or 2 trees opening); several entrances of a forest (1 to 4 sides could be open with different size). Higher chance is for 1 side big opening (standard) // smaller chances are for 2,3,4 entrances or even the forest to be closed (inaccessible). Also in some variations a special tree appears (lightning effect + petrified tree). It uses 3 random variables and 4 regions. In some variations the values of variables are linked to a region or number of trees/entrances for process improve.
    I used some basic mathematics skills + some variable type knowledge and compiled it for like 2 or 3 months from time to time. The process could be done alot better using more variables (better probability/programming skills).
    It could be useful for improving the map / new maps :psmile:

    Edit: Note: for test map - in main editor window File/Preferences.../Test Map : checkbox "Use Fixed Random Seed" has to be unchecked in order testmap to be able to generate random values of x,y,z variables at start. Otherwise it generates fixed initial values at start every time test map function is used.

    Keep up
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  3. gadina_prokleta

    gadina_prokleta

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    Thank you, Viei!
    I'll fix that for next version. As for the domain - well, I have rent it again for 2014 but I dropped the C-panel I don't need, forgetting it was used for redirecting. So these days, while establishing bots, I noticed that. Now trying to do stupid Google verification of the domain.
    Damn, I began to put money in this game, instead of the opposite :D

    Chess, there is such mechanics for that changing some tree lines - opening/closing paths at game start for about 20 places. I don't know how A.Dominion made it : ))
    Your suggestions are so great and I feel guilty I don't have the time to do them...
     
  4. animewidri2

    animewidri2

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    This is a awesome map!!!! I love it!!!!!! :D <3 <3 <3
     
  5. chessboxing

    chessboxing

    Joined:
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    some errors / bugs on 5.7

    Hi,

    i tested the new map 5.7 and noticed a few things that can be improved.
    (i tested single player on tribe 3 with 1 computer player in tribe 1)
    - Most important is that with the new system the computer player is not dropped from the game and his totem is autobuilt = the same old critical error appears when u go close to his totem (also animals that near can cause crash).
    Some interesting thing (2 guardians): i picked my totem and didnt build it, but dropped it somewhere on the ground. So after 10 minute timer it didnt build my totem, but guardian spawned and could go to the 1st tribe totem. Also the computer tribe guardian was given to me so i had 2 guardians. So when i sent both guardians near computer totem it started using coil spell and then game crashed with critical error (I guess this is easy to fix). Otherwise before this i played a whole long game without crash and only when I watched replay noticed the thing about the computer opponent.
    --- another bug i found with frolls(quest):
    I gave to 1 froll a shield and a club (both slots full) and attacked it. So he went hostile and started spawning infinite harpoons on the ground (old bug i guess due to full slots).
    --- another old bug is the dissappear of stats board, also when using -ms command it showed same number (i guess it happens after some lightning). -debug command could be made to affect those things.
    --- Host Bot in BNet Europe: game name is actually very hard to copy/paste.
    It starts with color coding something like c00fff....Jungletrolls #2 so i had a hard time even copy the game name. After i copied it it was very easy to enter games, but otherwise its very hard as the game appears rarely and its actually there. So i suggest the gamename to be changed to be simple if possible so players can type it easy and join. When you type whois {the host bot name} it says: it is in game Jungletrolls #2 // but the actual gamename is something like lc000fff.....Jungletrolls #2 . I think fixing game name will improve multiplayer.
     
  6. chessboxing

    chessboxing

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    some gameplay things

    here is some views / suggestions for gameplay

    ++ run speed : it becomes too high: a hunter with boots of haste becomes faster than his hound. (A hound is usually twice faster than humans :))
    Actually lategame the speed of the trolls becomes really somewhere near 500 when using Run so it becomes like they all move at max speed (compared to games like DotA and others). To fix this maybe the Run command should give some constant increase in speed like +30 or +50
    Otherwise it becomes 300 + 50% (150) = 450 :
    trolls become the fastest in the jungle.

    Edit: its logical run speed increase to be affected by burden (armors shields/ scales make you a bit slower and less manouverable) while lighter materials allow you faster movement. Instead of burden just affecting energy consumption. // example: run = +50% ms - burden (fixed or %). This way lighter coats (lvl 1, 2) will have their benefit in speed, while heavier/warmer armors will slow players a bit. //

    -- destroyed totem -- suggestion: after this i guess troll items could drop on death instead of remain in player. So this way totem protects tribes items/ otherwise they may lose them. Also the destroyed totem not necessary should kill all tribe players instantly (it just no longer benefits them).

    -- totem guardian revive cost is still 1000 / while totem mana is 500.
    Mask that uses pact needs to be fixed

    -- idea came about guardian: tribe starts with say full totem mana and no guardian. Then they can choose what it is depending on what fur / shell they bring (bear fur + 500 mana for bear // +shell for turtle / +sabretoot...) And all guardians have their benefits. Also should be able to use food / heal potions to recover faster. Otherwise u have to heal 2000 point guardian with 25/50 heal only.
    -- the old option for some 30 / 50 second totem invulnerability could be useful (with reasonable cooldown).

    Keep up
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  7. chessboxing

    chessboxing

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    more notes

    Hi,

    here is some more ideas that i wrote while playing:
    (if something is applicable could be added when time allows :))

    -- shades: in order to prevent exploits with shades scouting and then immediately revive: 1) shades vision may not be seen by team but only for the player himself. 2) Totem / horror totem aura could affect mana regen, reduce shade vision while in range / also some totem spell like -150 energy could be added to delay revive on scouting shades.

    -- chitin - when used for coat (also mask) could provide the range/spell resist as on the animal instead of only armor.
    -- snake leather coat - could provide some evasion (due to surface)
    -- aligator leather coat - lot of armor + waterproof
    -- masks with spell/range resist (turtle/chitin) instead of only wood
    -- quests with piranha / frog -- better to spawn in random locations so players have to find it/ also piranhas would be dangerous if between islands and not in corner. Otherwise every time u have to go to same places.
    -- festive hats are somehow useless (replace with cakes)
    -- F9 menu tips could be updated / added all class info, weapons, weather, modes, animals ... / new players will have tips easier
    -- tarantula/anaconda mojo - could be used for adding orbs to a weapon(venom/bash), for invention / guardian
    -- torch if possible to be added to weapon models would be nice.
    -- inventor - maybe instead of making random inventions and wasting time / resource he can go directly for particular one. They could be grouped by levels increasing required energy. Example: by the time a hunter / shaman can make a bear, the inventor can make a golem or thunder club ...
    -- shaman hands/freeze spell - should allow melee attack / also a bit higher cooldown. Otherwise with 2 books (hex/ hand) you can infinitely hold a unit.
    -- mining - requirement for weapon would prevent beasts and guardian from attacking mines. They are anyways ineffective in mining and produce too much noise, also often auto target mines when in combat.
    -- visual effect for rest - the best thing i guess is an aura buff for the player only while resting (briliance/wardrum/kodo pulse animation) :psmile:
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  8. fr14nd1

    fr14nd1

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    Is this map playable in single player? It seems pretty complex than any survival maps.
    And for chessboxing, don't multi post. Instead use edit and keep everything on one / two post.
     
  9. gadina_prokleta

    gadina_prokleta

    Joined:
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    Chess, I have changed the bot name the moment I saw your post. Now it's JungleTrolls.
    Next week I should have some time to see about the damn computer player and most important, to implement a really sweet update of the death system (a possibility to possess a beast while waiting to gather energy for revival).
    I'll think about the other things. For slowing effect Burden on run speed - maybe it's not a bad idea, but it would maybe tip the balance in unexpected direction (well, quite expected that it would be bad for Warrior, but at least he can leap).

    fr14nd1, yes, the game has relatively poor single player. It was meant for team play, but I agree we should at least implement some "Trolls vs. Jungle" mechanics. I can't come up with a simple to implement idea which would make the game actually better in this system. Maybe an evaluation system which requires trolls to gather a quantity of points (by finding and killing epic beasts) over 10 days? (Otherwise Jungle wins.)
     
  10. fr14nd1

    fr14nd1

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    And I get the feel on first try. I tried it on single player, walking and understanding the game mechanics, and I recognize something: I need a friend.
    Umm... proboably it would be the single player mode?

    Anyway, I could say this map is quite challenging. For example, rain affects your heat, while tree are hard to find (Plus you don't have an axe). Too bad many people don't like survival games like this.
     
  11. Doomfan64

    Doomfan64

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    I would think a singleplayer mode could be like a roguelike where you try to survive for as long as you can while waves of hostile NPCs spawn and try to hunt you down. Maybe there could be hostile NPC villages with buildings that you can destroy to weaken them.
     
  12. SwyZzNex

    SwyZzNex

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    Very nice map we still play it in gameranger with some friends. My nickname is SwyZzNex or [BG]SwyZzNex add me if you wanna play JTR together.
     
  13. gadina_prokleta

    gadina_prokleta

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    Bright Future

    This is the project Gadina worked on for the last whole year: Bright Future, a card driven board game about post-apocalyptic survival underground. Check out the amazing artwork and design! The game currently seeks funding in Kickstarter.
     
  14. nosivodead

    nosivodead

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    chessboxing im agreed with some of your ideas
    -model for torch.
    -f9 info
    -quest piranha/frog ramdon location.
    for everyone: join garena clan and play with us.
     
  15. DarkTroll

    DarkTroll

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    Gadina, I read in these forums that you are in the process of making Jungle Trolls II, which is good, very good. This is my very first post in the Hiveworkshop, and I am doing this so I can give you a few suggestions. I will do them class by class.

    But first, about the second map. You spoke that it is going to be more advanced, and I asked myself " What do you mean by 'advanced'? " If it is going to have a harder Game Play, we from the Sunny Trolls Garena clan will gladly welcome that. The 5.6 and 5.7 versions of the map are... Too easy, and a bit unbalanced for our refined tastes. We play only the 5.5 version of the map, and for some of us, it is getting old, tho, you most likely have been already informed of that.

    The first class I'd like to talk about is the warrior. In version 5.5 the warrior's dual wield increases his attack speed, which is very beneficial, however, in the next versions, especially in 5.7, tho, I am not sure about 5.6, that was dropped out. Further more, other classes can wear the weapons and armors which in version 5.5 only warrior can wear. For balancing purposes, either drop that, let the warrior be able to use bows, guns and books, OR, the better suggestion I came up with, remove the burden from the warrior, for he is strong enough to wear any armor and weapon. Thats his job, to be a powerhouse and while wearing heavy armors, to still swing his weapons with ease. Also, as the warrior holds no weapons, nor armors, make him move and/or attack more faster, for there is nothing to weight on him. That way, the warrior, the strongest troll in the tribe, will not be hindered for wearing heavy armor like the rest of the trolls, and would be beneficial for wearing lighter armors. And in all honesty, the weapons to have critical hits, instead of giving damage seems like the better choice. When you hit with an axe, and its not critical, you just hit a hand, or a hoof, or somewhere not all that important, but when you critical hit, you'v hit the middle of the chest, the sides of the body, the neck, or head. Same with the mace.

    The hunter. I don't have much to talk about the hunter, except that he should be slowed down move speed and attack-wise for wearing heavier armor. As to the suggestion of adding the spirit to posses a beast, I believe that this should be for hunters only.

    The inventor... Here, I have barely anything, except maybe " robotic arm " invention, which allows the inventor to hold a shield and a gun as well as the main weapon, and " MechaSuit " for inventors only, which allows the inventor to wear lvl 4 armor with the penalty of lvl 2 armors.

    As to the shaman... Aaah, the shaman. How effin wrong it is for the shaman to revive undead beasts lore-wise. Yes, that too. Please, do educate yourself a bit on how trolls worship their gods. http://www.wowwiki.com/Loa Long story short, Loa are the troll 'gods', Loa are spirits, and each and every spirit is a Loa, depending if it is worshiped or not. With that said, here is the suggestion for the shaman. Drop the undead animals fully, and replace them with spirit animals. Once an animal has died, the shaman must craft a totem, from bone and wood, for example, and sacrifice that animals meat and fur/skin. After that is done, the " Enraged Animal Spirit " appears, which is twice stronger than the normal animal, but without its abilities. Snakes do not have poison, bears do not have bash, panthers and aligathors do not have critical. As to how it is twice stronger, it has double heatlh, attack speed, damage and armor. Yeah, that isn't really 'twice' stronger, its much more stronger. After that, the shaman, or the whole tribe, must defeat that Enraged Animal Spirit, and when it dies, an item, or a mob is spawned, which is " Weakened Animal Spirit ", which is then 'tamed' through a spell from the totem in which the shaman sacrificed the fur/skin and meat, which totem was first placed on the ground to summon the spirit. The spirit has the same stats of the living animal, with special abilities like bash and crit, without the double everything. After that, the totem can be picked up, and carried. When the totem is placed, the spirit appears. When the totem is destroyed, the spirit is 'released' from its prison, and is once again enraged, as only the fur/skin is dropped. The enraged animal spirit appears where the totem was destroyed.

    Well, thats pretty much all I came to speak about.

    Edit: Oh, and Jungle Trolls are not green. They are blue, purple, and anything inbetween. The green ones are Forest Trolls.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  16. Seth

    Seth

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    theres no lore-wise element in this game though... only troll-culture, so don't get too sensitive about it...

    heres some of my report:
    -add quest npc's narration for every quest when clicked besides giving us the rewards after finishing the quest, cause most times we'll miss what the npc said in his dialog...
    -there seems to be a possible glitch or just the game duration (day 7-10) i invited a troll from another clan and not long after the troll's other clan was gone, the guardian beast spawn right back to my base and i now possesses 2. (do ask if you're confused)
    -nice welcum note from the start of the game.
    -btw, love the fact that taming alligator with 175 melee range since they can attack piranha without getting hit theirselves (would it be the same with the black piranha quest i wonder...)
    -guardian beast can walk free after the team's totem is gone... (thinking how it even get gone...)
    -vulture king boss can't be net down to land, it is only killable with throwing weapons
    -please change bone's design cause they're hard to pick up ...
    -VERY IMPORTANT: i remember posting on the thread that i've made all the 3 shaman books out but i can only take 2 of them... it keep falling off my slot and sometimes different book varies from different carrying limit, have you fix it yet?... and still... a shietload of feathers is a pain in the ass - -
    -loophole: tamed bears goes into winter hibernation can be cancelled by hitting them with trolls and spamming right click to force them move during the time they get hit. (they only use hibernate skill once at every Winter/Snow weather)

    -this is Seth, a loophole discoverer that haunts for glitches and bugs for every strategic game and abuses them xd.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  17. chessboxing

    chessboxing

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    Suggestions for Fixes and gameplay changes in 5.7

    Hi,

    the game complexity and possibilities are awesome.
    Still there are several things that need fixing in version 5.7 sooner or later. Currently multiplayer is not possible.
    As for suggestions: imagination is the limit. :psmile:
    It took some time to make a few notes simple and clear. Here it is:
    --------
    Fixes needed in 5.7 / JTR2:
    Player drop due to desync at start: maybe in 90% of multiplayer games.
    Suggestion of cause:
    details
    Initial map triggers in progress need some time to complete.
    Only after game mode is set players should be able to select building/choose hero.
    Refer to DotA start mechanics: mode is set; some seconds elapse; then players can choose.
    *slower computers may need some time to process the initial triggers at start. So a few seconds until game mode is set may solve some errors.


    *Rest mode - (auto on) is hard to notice on time when it triggers in combat or at night:
    (sometimes stops attack while in combat/ cant be noticed quick).
    Suggestion: brilliance aura (only the visual effect) / kodo aura (without dmg).
    Both auras have pulse effect that will emanate when rest mode activates so to notify players.
    *Intro mode music is too loud/(heavy); intro text is too fast. (Maybe some interactive tutorial would be nice in JTR/JTR2).
    *Option to change the music theme like in DotA: -music (theme)

    Edit:
    My next post adds further details to some issues/items

    *mask of invulnerability - required item was removed (change) cant be made.
    *guardian revive - needs 1000 energy and totem now has only 500 energy
    *guardian and totem are not fully shared to whole tribe. (cant assign hotkey).
    Only one player has full control. Issues with guardian occur if that player leaves.
    (guardian becomes hostile to tribe or disappears, even totem is destroyed: end game). If totem is not built before 10 minutes: sometimes only guardian spawns(no totem). Computer players remain whole game/ computer guardian spawns (no totem).
    *Option for players to start coop multiplayer game with 1 tribe only (not require 2 tribes). Selecting computer opponent makes computer totem kit/spirits/guardian appear. If the computer totem is built crashes occur. Guardians can be rescued :)
    *sounds from animal abilities(roar/enrage) are not played.
    "Inventory full" sound is too loud and heavy for jungle environment. (Soundname is: sound/ambient/DoodadEffects/NorthrendBattleshipLoop1.wav).
    *Game start: For Each tribe 1 firecamp kit at start would help the initial trouble/guide new players. Also increase survival chance, and therefore help overall gameplay.
    *Animals (roam/escape range perimeter / return time) could be increased. *hit and run hunt tactics should be harder.

    Move speed/run/panic:
    In lategame speed like 500+/600+ leads to not balanced battles, glitches, lag...
    Suggestion: remaining food, heat and burden(equipment) to affect "run/panic" speed. Default movespeed (ex. 240) + "run" formula.
    Formula for run/panic speed increase
    *Formula for run/panic: Base speed(ex. 240) + default add(+60ms) +(food/10) +(heat/5) -(burden)
    food(200), heat(100), Burden(0) = +60 + (200/10) +(100/5) -0 = +100ms
    food(100), heat(100), Burden(20) = +60 +(100/10) +(100/5) -20 = +70ms
    food(50), heat(0), Burden(10)= +60 +5 +0 -10= +55ms
    Note: (current food is divided by a factor of 10; heat is divided by 5).
    With less food/heat run increase is slower. Less equipped players are faster.
    Example: default movespeed(240) +boots(50) +run(70ms in 2nd example) makes 360ms. This way overall movespeed wouldn be too high +ms add is fixed instead of %.
    *Hunger may add a temporary +ms/+as buff (adrenaline/enrage).
    All units in jungle may have similar ability that increases their speed temporarily. Panic thould trigger when players approach some of them.
    *Speed of lvl3 predators/elder beasts could be faster than lvl2.
    *Some of the jungle animals should outrun trolls even in lategame.

    -----------
    Suggestion: Units and Firecamps can have shelter from weather effects when close to solid buildings:
    • Solid buildings provide shelter for units and firecamp(from weather effect). Example: armory can be used for shelter(from wind/rain effects). No additional heat/regeneration provided. *Huts and tents provide normally shelter and additional heat/health restore.
    • Firecamp has shelter when next to a solid building (for ex. armory or hut): weather effects no longer will destroy it (put out), or make forest fire. (Will receive energy as if fired by oil when it is close to a building).
    • If placed away from a building: firecamp can still be affected by rain if not fired by oil /and also wind will affect it.
    • Firecamp heats(activates) Cauldron and Forge: they activate when burning firecamp is connected to them.
    • If fire is extinguished cauldron/forge become inactive until heated (as if installed on the firecamp)./There is a model in editor for inactive forge. Cauldron can have bubble animation when activated/ Heat aura from the firecamp will trigger them active/inactive. This way players will not have free heat all game and will have to use resources to kindle the fire whenever they need heat/forge/cauldron. I think this idea is very simple and therefore easy to implement. It will add some realism to the game in heat management.
    • Add firecamp+cauldron+forge next to a solid building (for shelter from weather).
    ------------
    Jungle
    • Chasing a rabbit/racoon/deer with just axe or club should not work. *Passiveness and slow speed make hunting too easy and no need for strategy and tools.
    • Sabretooths / deer could move through trees to be more surprising/evasive: cloak ability / sprint can shrink their size (to move trough trees) for its duration.
    • Hex spellbook shrink size temporarily: for sneak/escape tactics for allies.
    • Old animals(lvl3) can drop horn/bones/shell.
    • Aligator/piranha shadowmeld effect at night(when immersed in water and passive).
    • comodo lizards/anacondas may be a good addition to the water areas.
    • Some jungle hawks may be nice too.
    • lvl 3 Boars / Stags may have some higher dmg/or critical: they have some powerful tusks/horns.
    • elder beasts(lvl4) should spawn at start same as lvl 1/2/3 instead of only in lategame.
    • frog quest: reward should be an egg that could be carried and placed anywhere or hatched. Instad of spawn directly in quest location. 1 Aligator could spawn near frog for harder quest /or/ frog could spawn random on map water areas so players have to find.
    --------
    Arcanums while equipped unlock special skills. Example:
    • Light: global range of heal / regen spells for allies.
    • Darkness: unlock raise animal ability of shaman instead of having it from start.
    • Shadow: provide true sight/unobstructed vision(air unit), replacing "stumble upon" skill.
    • Suggestion: 1 arcanum max allowed to carry instead of 2
    • spellbooks should add burden (arcanum add 2x)
    • Option: add arcanum to totem to upgrade it (1 upgrade allowed per game): adds 1 spell to totem: regeneration/teleport(similar to town portal)/freeze
    ----------
    Random spawn locations of Oil / Boss / Quests for more unique gameplay:
    Oil: the 4 oil sources can have variation spawn on each of the 4 islands
    (not the same spot every game). Variations: Piranha lakes; quicksand areas;
    tarantula/anaconda lairs; aligator areas; boss areas.
    *mineral waters can change locations also
    This would change the gameplay for players who tend to always setup bases next to oil/hot springs.

    Bosses: each one can spawn at different lairs /or also new areas:
    Grizzly/Wolf:any cave; Vulture:cliff areas; Comodo: also in waterfall areas
    Grizzly and Comodo locations have too narrow entrances like a maze.
    Could be corrected to be more open and harder to attack the bosses.

    Tribe random start location could be added at mode setup screen.
    Tribes could start on random islands every game (or in a different area of the island).
    -------------
    *Torch: better options to use / add to class crafting for all.
    Suggestion: able to use torch as either primary or secondary weapon(still count as weapon).
    Torch use and effect
    Players can use: 1 torch / 1 primary or secondary weapon(axe/bow/shield):
    -If a player is using primary weapon like axe/club/spear the torch becomes passive (vision aura only) or with small chance to deal fire dmg (5%).
    -If the torch is used with bow/gun/shield it becomes primary(melee): 20% chance for ignite:
    (few seconds Fire dps. Effect: "drunken haze+breath of fire" dps /or/ Firelord "incinerate" spell.
    -If there are consecutive hits or more torches in battle fire dps can stack. Can add fire dps when attacking buildings.
    -Example Variations: (axe+torch; +javelins) / (torch+shield; +harpoons) / (torch+gun/bow; +harpoons) / (torch+blowpipe; +spellbooks).
    Hunter class almost can`t be countered without torch: (invisibility/speed/traps).
    (Hawks/vultures are too weak against bows). Inventor flares are OK but can`t be used by all.
    Warrior can`t use any other detector. Torch is also too weak for primary weapon.

    *Shields: Active Ability to shields (bash with shield). Effect: (dmg/stun/push away),
    depending on shield materials: giant shell / shell / chitin / petrified wood/ aligator leather/bronz/iron.
    Inventor can make improved versions (even add spikes).
    *Masks: more materials used: (shells/chitin/skull/leathers) allowing options to improve(+hitpoints/+energy/+maxheat),
    or add range/spell resistance(10%-20%) as they are used to protect the head.
    Quest reward mask - needs option to add some resistance or standard regen/invis/invul upgrade.
    *Global Merchant Shop -mercenery camp behind troll chief. Rare animal resources that were sold by players will be available there for higher price: 3x / 4x sell cost.

    *lvlup and stats - Option for changing different stats by skillpoints/items:
    modification options:
    Currently in ver 5.7 basic gain is total 9 skillpoints per lvl(auto).
    At lvl 10 it doubles starting skillpoints: increasing only health/mana regen and move speed.
    All classes remain at around 200 hitpoints unable to counter different teamplay strategies. (2 bows / 2 guns ...)
    *Suggestion: (+1str adds +2hitpoints; +hpregen;); (+1agi adds +1ms; +1as); (+1int adds 2 energy +manaregen).
    Base gain of 6 skillpoints per lvl will auto increase stats according to class.
    Players can choose to allocate remaining 3 skill points per lvl to str/agi/int.
    By lvl10 players will choose to allocate between: 60 additional hitpoints /or/ +30ms/+30as /or/ +60 energy.
    -In addition some item specific attributes (masks/better equipment/weapons) could increase/decrease: maxheat/maxfood/resist/attackspeed.
    Options to modify parameters would improve gameplay.

    Gadina, lots of good luck and fun with the new project Bright Future!
    Seems that the dwellers of urban areas face survival too.
    It would be nice if the project complements with JTR :)
    Inventors seem to have some knowledge from the urban world.
    Adaptable concepts will create foundations for inspiring environments.

    Regarding Bright Future project name(just a note): I tried to find it on YouTube to see some more info. So I typed quick "Bright Future card game". Seems that there is an older card game with the same name and its with ecological/educational content for children. So maybe you will need to work on the game name: uniqueness/easy access to info.

    Edit: my opinion: when you find time fo JTR focus on fixing the desync issue/totem issues. Really the game is very nice, the only problem is that it takes long time to gather players and find a game, and the desync splits the game, so teams remain like 1:0:4 / 1:4:0. Sometimes a few hours spent for multiplayer: and those few games u join result in drop. Edit: in my next post there is some more suggestions for fixing the multiplayer drop / balance issues in order to improve the map :).
    Keep up and take care :psmile:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  18. GONZALORD

    GONZALORD

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    wow! 11.000 Euros! Good Job!
     
  19. DarkTroll

    DarkTroll

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    Desync problem can be avoided by the players. The same thing exists in 5.5, and when we restart WarCraft III, and the first game which we play is JTR, we do not get desynced. But if you have played a game, and did not restart, you will be 100% desynced. Without a matter what game you have played, be it JTR, Rabbit vs Sheep, or even a normal map in single player, if the program is not restarted, and you attempt to play JTR in multiplayer, you will be desynced.

    Also, if you so much want to play with others, the Sunny Trolls garena clan host 5.5 with ent hostbot between 4 PM to 10 PM London time. But do have in mind that they have a few rules circulating amongst them for better gaming experience. Such as, no entering enemy island until day 5 and simple things like that.

    Have fun with that information.
     
  20. chessboxing

    chessboxing

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    More visions on the jungle in JTR

    Hi,

    Edit: I would like to share some views with JTR developers / all players. I know not all ideas are applicable, nor there is time to implement alot of them. This post and the previous one contain alot of new ideas and suggestions to add. Most important is if possible an update to fix major bugs and the disconnect issue. There are some suggestions for bugfixes/balance/mechanics and a few new items/abilities and changes, that in my opinion could improve gameplay and allow better multiplayer. Here it is :)



    • Balance issues / exploits / fixes:

      • Gameplay/error issues /bugs in 5.7 multiplayer:

        • Heat loss (bug) - (Fixed) :

          Stand near a heat source (firecamp/forge/tent/spring) drop and take any lined(boots / gloves) multiple times: starts substracting heat constantly. Substracted value stacks multiple times (with every drop) resulting in constant heat loss. If the player is revived (miracle) the heat triggers are reset and heat works normal. Still if after this the player needs to again drop his equipment(for crafting) - the issue with heat loss occurs again until next revive. Can`t be fixed by -debug / heal / any potion / spell. Usually it is hard to notice as every time lined fur boots/gloves are dropped it adds to heat loss with like -2 / -3 heat. As game progresses the stacking becomes noticable even at day (-30; -50 per 10/20 seconds). Note: all coats/gambesons and also boots and gloves that are not lined dont cause the issue.

        • Totem / Guardian mechanics - (Fixed)

          • Totem and guardian owner cannot be changed interactively ingame(edit: only the player that built the totem could change guardian control). In case the player is afk the others are unable to use guardian. Sometimes if the player leaves the game or is dropped the guardian can become hostile or the totem can be destroyed leading to end game or crash errors. Totem cannot be assigned to a hotkey by other players, but they still can use it by selecting it.
          • Guardian revive is not possible. (or is it limited to only 1 per game?). Overall in lategame it becomes relatively weak with not many options for effective heal by all classes.
          • Edit: Totem placement sometimes results in player block (guardian is spawned first then totem is placed slightly away from the location intended). Option for cancel build should be available(currently totem is ward type building and builds instantly).
          • Multiplayer coop mode with 1 tribe only should be made possible instead of require player/computer in a second tribe. New players (when less than 4) will easier explore the game in 1 team and dont have to wait for more players to form more teams.
          • Some host bot games cannot start until there are 2 tribes(computer cannot be assigned as an opponent). If multiplayer opponent team requirement cant be removed: a computer player could be assigned temporary as "Jungle", so multiplayer games could start with one team too). In single player: games could start without required opponent.
          • Computer guardian autobuilds after 10 minutes(sometimes with totem): could be reworked in order to prevent crash errors. Chance for game crash is like 100% whenever an animal or player nears computer totem.
          • EDIT: Spooky aura in 5.7 is not functional: shades are invulnerable and this aura affects only their health regeneration/speed. Negative energy regeneration for shades should be affected instead (fix). Could also reduce sight range of shades - to prevent scouting.
        • Hunger: fix/balance

          Edit: In ver 5.7 hunger drops health way too fast. Makes early game very hard. It drops like 6 hitpoints per instance. Even with mask of life and resting/healing in base - it kills players too fast: especialy if they need to combat for food.
          Health loss due to hunger may be reduced at least by half so players have more time to react. Maybe resting(shelter) could also slow rate of food decrease / hunger health loss a bit. Maybe option for increasing max food value in late game would be good for gameplay. Players wont need to eat too often / carry food all the time.

        • Panic mode / energy recovery / escape mechanics - fix

          When energy is close to 0 autorest (nap) occurs, stopping the player for a few moments in order to recover some energy. (sometimes it happens during panic mode, and cancels the run effect). Suggestion: Emergency movement / escape mechanism: panic ability (for its duration) should override auto rest not to occur(even at 0 energy). Or the effect of increased speed during panic should be paused during a nap(allowing its full duration after that). Otherwise autorest(nap) may happen to occur several times exactly during panic mode, reducing its full duration. If players are slowed / cold / or in combat: panic (run) ability should allow some emergency escape mechanics.

        • Cloaked units - vision bug

          Edit: At night - when approaching animals with cloak ability - even they stand still - they can be seen for a brief moment and then become cloaked. As if the ability is affected by the player approaching them (it happens in the range of probably normal day vision).

        • Critical error - using helper units - (Fixed)

          The error occurs usually in late game, when a helper unit(pet / revived unit/golem) is used to cook meals several times, while player is away from base. Maybe the unit receives the cooking experience (instead of player) and cooking achievement lvlup on the unit causes the error. 10 units of food give like 40 experience. The lvlup occurs around 180 experience. Some of the instances give experience to the player / some to the unit.

        • Stats board disappear (bug):

          If any building / kit is cancelled with ESC key, while in progress: the stats board(in top right corner) disappears. If the same step is repeated after that with any building kit: the stats board appears agan. Note: If the building process is stopped using Cancel button on the building - the issue doesn`t occur.

        • Invulnerability mask (cannot be created) - (Fixed)

          Tooltip and item required is not correct. This mask is used alot in multiplayer battles. Cannot be created in 5.7// (Still could be found while fishing).

        • Sounds: Inventory/spells/abilities

          • "Inventory full" sound; fishing bobbler sound; most spells (miracle / weather changes) when not ready (low mana) use the same sound as inventory full(battleship). If you are not using headphones the bass becomes too loud compared to most jungle environment sounds. Could use normal inventory sound patterns.
          • some sounds from animal abilities are not played(enrage / roar). Also it is hard to notice the boss that has appeared (maybe a specific boss sound on spawn will be good notification).
          • Option for changing music theme with commands would be good.
        • Notes on game versions 5.5 / 5.7:

          Some players prefer version 5.5 for multyplayer. I guess its because easier resurrect/lower movement penalty for heavier equipment/ no guardian / items are restricted to class.


          However my opinion in 5.5 lower lvl items like lighter weapons/coats arent effective in team play (dont provide any extra move/attack speed(less burden)/give insignificant armor/heat) or are restricted. This makes most materials in game useless for some classes (low lvl item: leathers furs chitin shells). The same resources are used in every game: trying to get the possible highest lvl items / inventions and go for combat instead of choosing from a wide variety of item options each having specific benefits.


          Ver 5.7 has fixed some exploits: quick suicide /teammate kill / revive in order to craft high lvl items and zombies; using lot of stone walls to block / scout large areas; Carnivorous plants taking too much time in the game; Buildings in 5.5 are very easily destroyed with clubs. Totem can be destroyed very quickly (few hits) with high level clubs leading sometimes to end game without battle. With item restrictions generally there are fewer options for diversity in gameplay. Version 5.7 has alot of fixes and changes and gives more possibilities for different gameplay. Game errors and lag issues are much improved in my opinion. Fixing issues like invul mask/guardian control/totem hitpoint and end game balance would be good for multyplayer.


          Multiplayer: edit: due to disconnect errors at start, alot of games with random players end up in remake. I know that there can be done some tricks like restart program;rmk and like, but in general it takes too much time. Also not all players know this. The start desync drop issue doesn`t occur in DotA for example. Of course there is normal player drop that occurs sometime in every game.
          Several years ago the multiplayer desync issue at start was occuring in JTR (Maybe JungleTrollTribes then) and this hasn`t been fixed until now. So instead of just trying to avoid it there should be some reason for it in the triggers.
          Actually the restart game before joining JTR seems to work and most players remain in game.
          However simplifying the initial start mechanics could help the issue.

      • Suggestion for Disconnect error fix / Start Mechanics

        A test version of the map with disabled triggers for different Game Modes setup at start(No Dialog Box options for mode setup). It could show if game mode choice mechanics cause the desync / or / is it something else.


        Default game options at map initialization for all players:
        Mode(Normal); Action(On); Plenty (off); Hardcore (off); Tutorial (off). [Action mode could be On for test versions]

        If desync drop no longer occurs after 10 - 20 games tested. Simple changing of the mode select triggers one by one will be able to fix it easily. Testing could continue by simplifying the mechanics. Maybe there is too much unnecessary triggers in the dialog buttons tool.


        Instead of using a dialog box - the Starting Item choice mechanics(Wisp) could be used for applying all game mode changes as well. I guess Difficulty Mode is the most important one and therefore could be set first of all. After that all other modes could be set while game has already started for all players.



        Changes in Start Locations and Hero Selection (For test versions):

        Changing the Hero Choice Buildings and Start Locations (used in ver 5.7) could show if there are some errors in the models/mechanics used so far. Start Location and hero selection could be done in one common place(region) for all players (maybe similar to Random Draft mode in DotA). After this players spawn on the 3 islands.


        Different buildings for Hero Choice options could be used(test version): a Circle of power for choice /or/ 4 invulnerable units(a model for every class) plus an option for random class choice.



        If the Game Start process is done step by step (with some seconds and Notification Messages between Mode Setup / Building Spawn / Hero Choice / Game Start) and the desync drop still occurs: it will be easier to notice exactly when it happens.


        Start mechanics (with mode setup options):
        1. Game start: Game loading is OK for all players. Start locations should be on the same spot(region) for all players to minimize chance for errors.(still no player buildings / units are spawned for players).
        2. Few seconds pass and host(or a random player) is prompted for choosing only Difficulty mode (Easy/Normal/Hard) - [no dialog screen, instead a start item choice: (wisp) appears]. If host is afk or doesnt choose: after a few seconds (maybe 20): Normal mode is set by Default.
        3. Few seconds after mode is set : Player choice buildings spawn (in the new start region /or/ on every tribe island as before); Initial hero choice by players is then possible. Game time could be reset to 05:00 am.
        4. After a player selects hero - he spawns on the corresponding tribe island. Totem kits appear at the spawn locations.
          *At this point game has already started. Now the host can further choose other modes one by one (for testing purposes). Same choice mechanics are used (Wisp).
        5. Action mode - as it affects only spawning of a single item (shop kit) for every tribe, therefore it can be selected when game is already running.
        6. Plenty Mode - can be disabled for test versions. Maybe no need for changes in this mode if desync occurs when it is disabled. Same mechanics: wisp spawns for host. After mode choice corresponding resource spawn starts. (Default mode choice for Plenty is Off).
        7. Hardcore mode - if it is changed to ON during gameplay it should cause drop of items of players that left / or died in the first days. Those triggers may be used in case victory conditions are removed and destroyed totem would cause automatic Hardcore mode for the tribe.
        8. Tutorial mode could be disabled for test versions. Then If selected after game has started pause game / cinematic mode for all could be used.

        Common Game Start Location: the pool behind Vulture lair (Southeast) / cliffs near Grizzly cave (SouthWest) could be used. A region outside playable area would reduce errors caused by realtime changes in the stats of nearby jungle units.



        Logic: Difficulty modes modify the stats on all jungle animals - therefore until game mode is set and animal loading is done: all players at start should have the same Initial Start location / Selection options / Camera Mode / Units in sight range).


        I noticed that the starting hero choice buildings in JTR(5.7) are spawned immediately after game is loaded and choice is possible before mode is set.


        Notice: hero chooser building (portrait) differs at game start. when selecting a nearby unit(player or jungle animal). Then selecting of the same hero choser building displays the normal model/different from the gamestart.
        Also: 4 buildings per tribe spawn on map initialization regardless of number of players. The unused hero buildings are then auto removed by triggers. All this actions could result in loss of data during game loading for players. Notice and compare the first few seconds on map load(selection/buildings in sight range) when DotA starts and JTR start. DotA start moments are much simpler (only circle of power is selected and all players are awaiting mode).


        Fixing this will make multiplayer less time consumming. Currently it takes hours for a normal random game to happen, due to drop / remake. Eventually most players stop trying to play multiplayer. The game idea and environment are amazing and you can see that some hosted games are starting with like 10 - 12 players. Then several players are dropped/ so if they are teamed the others leave for rmk too and it all starts again...


        However I guess that any suggestions for cause / fix may be helpful.



    • Gameplay Suggestions

      • Game Modes:

        • Separating choice for combat / survival
          could allow more gameplay possibilities

        • combat (jungle animals stats): easy /medium / hard
          Combat stats could be changed to be not related to survival difficulty. Players will be able to choose the level of combat challenge of the jungle. More experienced players will likely choose harder combat difficulty.

        • Survival difficulty(stats decrease/weather effects and duration): Easy / Medium / Hard : separate mode choice would allow more gameplay variations when combined with different combat modes.

        • Resources: scarce / normal / plenty . Initial resource spawn currently is on day 1 and then at day 2 / 3 (players go several times to the same spots on the Island to check for new resources, which is not very realistic). The amount of resources that spawn randomly for Normal mode could be changed to (random value between 1-3) per unit(item location) and only the initial spawn on 1st day to remain. Plenty mode could be the same with (3-5) units per resource(item location).

        • Edit: Voting: could be used for choosing game modes(all players receive the screen for choosing modes for a fixed amount of seconds: if they choose modes - it counts as a vote; if some players are inactive - it counts the vote as if normal modes are selected; then after the timelimit expires game mode is set according to all votes). Because in 5.7.0 the player that can choose difficulty is selected randomly in every game, voting (by all players) would prevent undesired choice by more players in the game. Default choices for all modes will be "Normal" in case players are afk at game start. All players will see the same interface at start and this will remove the difference in game time for the player that chooses the modes and the others (as in 5.7.0).

        • Tribe setup: In addition an option for bigger teams could be made possible(maybe by initiating vote mode): like 6vs6 / 5vs5 mode depending on how players agree to setup the teams. Players could also choose to be outcasts(no totem) or make smaller team (different than team setup when joining the game). Mechanics: several circles of power at start so players make their choice. The voting required for this mode to start could prevent exploits / abuse by players that are afk or try to spoil the game.

      • Balancing survival gameplay: Effects

        Effects (hunger/cold/diseases/storms) should be changed to not kill players - instead health should not reach below 1 hitpoints from any effects. In ver 5.7 health loss from these effects kills players instantly. This makes the survival gameplay much harder. Players should have a chance to react/recover, while already at very low health. All of these effects should not affect health if it has dropped below a lower limit like ex.: 5 hitpoints. Effects like hunger would not cause death, but will force players to remain on very low health until they find food. When players are very low on health and have some of those effects (hunger, disease, cold, or storm is on) instead of instant death, pain effect could occur, until the negative effect / weather is no longer affecting players, or some health is regenerated.


        Only damage from attacks/spells should kill players instantly. This would make the game more combat oriented.


      • Weather / Shelters / Terrain

        • Weather
          - Edit: indicators of weather change / weather types -

          Weather changes could be preceded by a notification message; sound / animation effect (wind sound / lightning / snow effect) then after some buffer time (20 / 30 seconds) actual weather change occurs. Players would notice and be able to prepare for the effect. In reality most (rains / storms /snow) are noticed some time before they occur. Same as when totem is used for weather change: indication and short delay before applying the change.

          Normal (short duration / no additional effects) // Heavy weather (longer duration / with effects)
          *Rain:
          []Light rain(short duration / no lightnings)
          []Heavy rain (longer duration / with lightnings)
          *Storm:
          []Short duration (normal)
          []Longer duration with wind effect (random tree or bush is destroyed). Effect around tree: war stomp
          *Snow:
          [] short (normal duration)
          [] long snow: freeze effect on river (could be walked upon for a while) / slide mechanics: terrain becomes slippery for some time. Boots allow normal movement.) Trolls could arrange ice skating tournament :)

          *Night: cold sound / cold animation: periodically to appear (to remind of cold and heat loss at night).

          Moonlight effect at night on clear weather (a few rays of moonlight may appear randomly on the map every night for visual effect. Similar to lightning when raining).

          Difficulty mode would affect the chance for every instance of weather(rain/wind/snow) during the game.
          Example: Normal / Heavy weather
          Easy : 90/10% ll Normal: 75/25% ll Hard: 50/50%

        • Lightnings:
          Edit: Suggestion for change of rain / lightning mechanics

          Rains could be 2 types: with or without lightnings(like 50/50 %chance). This will remove some of the lag that is caused by this particular effects. Also lightning would occur not everytime there is a rain, making petrified wood harder to find.
          The full Lightning effect triggers could be local (some radius around the object where lightning occurs): in order to reduce loading and playing of lightning sound/flashing animation multiple times per rain for all players regardless of map position. Instead the heavy lightning animation and the sound can be played on the object: the players notice it only if within some radius of the event. For players that are far away: sound only or a simpler (requiring less memory) light flash effect could be used.
          The visual effect and sound of lightning storm in 5.7 are very good though :) . It adds some nice atmosphere to the jungle environment.


        • Natural Shelters in the jungle
          Edit:suggestion

          A few additional spots on the map (natural shelters) where players could regenerate some health/energy if weather surprizes them. It would add some realism / gameplay variations.
          This aspect in the game is missing in ver. 5.7. On Normal/Hard difficulty weather effects cannot be countered without a shelter. Survival in early game is very dependent on Tent / Hut / Heal.

          Places/locations that could be modified to provide rest regeneration / protection from weather effects:

          *Troll chief camp building / Froll village building / cave entrances / waterfalls / some cliffs / springs / spots in boss;anaconda;tarantula lairs / ancient ruins near teleporter (a few additional could be scattered around the map) / several big (ancient) trees.

          Mechanics of shelter aura from tent/hut could be used. Small radius around the cave entrance/cliff/neutral building: provides shelter aura and resistance to rain/wind/snow. This way players wont need to always carry a tent / lots of heal; or remain close to base.
          Some of the objects (ancient trees / ruins) could be randomized at start for gameplay variety.

        • Forest variations: If you find any useful triggers on the randomize map I uploaded several posts ago, try to implement it when time allows. Further randomize of the forest maze will allow more gameplay patterns for the players.
        • Additional visual doodads for plain areas - bushes (similar to hunter tent / or snake areas) will improve environment / allow easier camouflage.
        • Ancient Teleporter:
          Edit:suggestion

          Its very easy to destroy by teams with no inventor (2 / 3 hits). It has influence on the gameplay for inventor class and their teams: needs more hitpoints on the structure(like rocks) / some warning messages if it is attacked will notify inventor teams. Small vision on other side of portal when used would be helpful (to know if other side teleporter works). Option for invention item craft to unlock/allow use of teleporter by all classes (some kind of key item invention available in workshop) / or build additional teleporters (2 way structure placeable anywhere).

      • Jungle / Unit abilities / Mechanics

        • roaming: some jungle animals remain still whole game. Adding wander ability to more animals will make the jungle more realistic. / maybe higher distance perimeter and longer return time(to spawn spot) to prevent easy hit and run (I guess it is defined in Advanced/Gameplay Constants).
        • Edit: Noise aura around players - could scare small animals whenever players near. Panic mode should increase radius / chance to scare. Effect can be similar to carrying torch. Hunter may have smaller noise aura/no aura when using sneak ability. Also invisibility can cancel this aura. Example: whenever this aura range affects a small animal it should run away (try not to stay near to players, if possible not returning too quick to its initial spawn area). Can stack with torch aura to increase range. This will improve hunting aspect.
        • small animals and birds would be better if all have some ability like panic/sprint/night vision (harder to hunt / more effective if tamed/raised). Predators (higher lvl/elder) may also have +ms/dmg increase (enrage).
        • Elder beasts spawn at start may be good for easier make of rare weapons and items earlier in the game (and not to compensate with teammate kills/suicide/resurrect).
        • Old animals(lvl3)/Elder Beasts(lvl4): chance to spawn cubs/lay eggs should be on lvl3 and again at lvl 4. Elder beasts should also have mana(expire). After lvl3/lvl4 animals expire: the mechanics of killing the unit should be used(modified): the unit that expires - instead of disappear - should drop only the hard resource (bone/skull/horn/shell/chitin/feather) while the fur/leather/meat is destroyed and could be removed/rotten. This way the hard resources could still be collected after animals perish.
        • Boss hitpoints should be reduced proportionally if it spawns in early game (maybe first week. As more time passes after this boss can spawn with full health). Currently (5.7.0) they always spawn at like 50%.
        • Eggs: most found eggs could be hatched in some nest (old idea). Maybe built in tannery or troll hut: feather / tinder or linen cloth.
        • Raised animals (zombies) should not be immune to disease/poison: Their regeneration rate should be increased a bit so disease cloud not make them lose health. If energy is provided to them they will expire like hunter pets and will have to be fed and not be infinite. They are too powerful if immune to disease/poison. This limits the effective ways to counter them with all classes.
        • Storms currently damage birds all around the map (2 or 3 consecutive storms kill most smaller birds i guess). Some resistance of birds could fix this.
        • Snow - all plants Berry/herbs on the map lose health and growth. Tooltips / game information say that snow only affects growth(energy) on plants. Storm(wind) also damages all plants.
      • Victory Conditions / Teamplay / Tribes

        • Totem destroy - instead of end game: Hardcore mode starts for the tribe: players are unable to heal / resurrect from totem. Items are dropped on death. Still players could join other tribes if invited /or/ play without totem as a tribe /or/ can play as outcasts (no ally vision / team chat until invited to tribe). Players may lose some experience (lvl decrease) if resurrect when totem is destroyed.
          After totem is lost it will be harder to survive, especially when other tribes have totems (weather changes/easier heal and resurrect) and jungle map reveal option. If items are no longer retained (no totem): games will not be prolonged too much, also won`t end immediately in case of base trade.
        • A common strategy with totem (and guardian 5.7): stone walls can be used to block totem / or / guardian to be unreachable. This makes them like invulnerable before stonewalls are destroyed. Its a nice strategy that can be countered effectively mainly by warrior / inventor as they have more effective attacks against buildings. This is why with current victory rules of only totem destroy alot of games end in base trade attacks. The map size is huge and there are not many options for effective return. The team that destroys faster wins instantly and some games end without battles.
        • Totem should not be permanently invulnerable to prevent exploits with hiding/blocking guardian with stone walls. Totem hitpoints could be increased so it cannot be destroyed fast with single surprise attacks. In addition totem invulnerability spell (60 seconds with long cooldown) would help teams return to base. Model: old stone structure model for totem (obelisk) looks more solid.
          [*]Guardian: if it is destroyed and tribe totem is functional: guardian becomes in spirit form and it can be revived using totem mana. If the totem is destroyed the guardian can not be revived.
          If totem is destroyed and guardian is still alive: it is no longer linked to the totem and can move anywhere. A few inventory slots would allow effective heal for guardian / also it could aid tribe. In ver 5.7 guardian is around 2000 hitpoints and totem can heal it for 250 for its full energy. Only shaman class could heal it effectively using spellbooks.
          [*]Revive cooldown: (for every player / guardian) could be implemented to balance combat. Also revive near totem could allow some seconds invlnerability / invisibility to prevent instant killing after revive. Also if combat happens near totem instant revive can cause significant advantage to the defending team (cooldown/timers/notifications could be implemented).
          In case totem is destroyed player revive location could be moved near troll chief / merchant.

        • some small totem mana at start (in case heal is needed) could be helpful for new players.
      • Inventions/Workshop

        Inventor: His second ability (invent) is somehow passive as it creates only a recipe(he needs further items / buildings to be able to create them) therefore it could be added to his class craftings.


        It could be replaced with an active ability: Disassemble (items/kits) to be his second skill. This way he will be able to obtain/transform resources from any items and building kits he can pickup during the game without the need of creating/using forge. It could use the same ability and mechanics used in forge: item in slot 1 to be disassembled. He will be able to Dismount buildings with his 1st skill and then with his 2nd skill to further disassemble kits/items. This way inventor will have 2 active abilities that he could use effectively during the whole game. If item restrictions are further removed he would as well be able to pick up and disassemble some additional items usable only by other classes.



        Invent could be added to his class craftings with 2 options:


        • random invention - creates random item recipe (his default ability in ver 5.7, no crafting energy).
        • specific invention - could use crafting energy to create specific item from a list of possible inventions. Items may be grouped by levels increasing required crafting energy. Common inventions like improved shields / combined weapons / helpers / engines could be available so players could access them easy.
        • using random inventions could have chance to create some special items, that are not available initially in his invention list. Also using the skill could give him achievement experience, improving his invention list.
        • however a Workshop is required for all inventions to complete - therefore specific inventions(recipe/plans) may be added to(to be initially available in) Workshop to be accessible to other classes as well. Crafting energy will be used for creating the plans. Only inventor could have the ability to create random inventions for no energy cost, and as well some special ones as his ability improves.

        Instead of trying multiple times to create specific invention(1 hour+ / or to try again in next game with inventor class), players will focus on needed things in the particular game also may choose his items and strategy based on the resources he has in the current game. (Bare necessities :psmile:).


        Disassemble ability(available in forge) : could be moved/or also added to Workshop (seems logical the ability to be accessible easier). Workshop would also allow modifying items.

      • Weapons/Armors/Shields

        • Weapons

          • Axes / Throwing weapons / Envenomed weapons:

            • Bone axe - item to be changed to: Flint axe(all axes would require basic resource).
            • Bronze bar - required resources could be 2 flint + oil / or stone + flint + oil.
            • Fiery axe - axe should not drop when using fireball (no need / item is lost too easy).
            • Throwing weapons(Javelins): level 1/2/3: bone/flint/horn (producing bone darts/javelins/harpoons). Armory will allow easier use of Bones / Horns as effective weapons(invention requirement slows this process for horns, while bones are rarely used for weapons, except for arrows. For bone darts: nightelf/heroes/ fan of knives(ability) icon could be used. Also option for envenom in cauldron could be added for all level Javelins.
            • Throwing weapons(Throwing axes): 3 levels: (bone/flint/stone) allowing some resource variation options. Less range/higher damage than Javelins. 5 bones could be used in requirements for 10 javelins/throwing axes).
            • poisoning of traps / javelins / harpoons / spears / daggers in cauldron could be added. Also normal added poison charges without cauldron should be less (3 - 5 instances), while cauldron should add like maximum: 10.
            • frog venom (some slow poison) it is relatively rare though.
            • Traps/mines with poison gas. (I read some old forum posts idea by leso).
              Box / sensor trap kit + gas could be used.
          • Empowered Staff weapons

            Its logical combat staff weapon to be available for all classes - similar to spears. Several different types: bone/horn/petrified with different dmg/critical/range. Also possibility to empower with spellbook and be used by all classes. Spellbooks/arcanum still may be only used by shaman. All other classes: only staff empowered with spell(like towers). This would allow alot of gameplay variations. Maybe totem can use a weapon/empowered staff too like a tower for attack/defense/heal.

          • Class weapons:
            bow / guns / empowered staff / blowpipe / traps / mines / shields to be usable by all classes.

            This will really allow more gameplay possibilities. Ammo for the weapons will be available in the corresponding building (arrows:in tannery; powder:in workshop; needles: in doctor hut). Classes will still have their specific class craftings/abilities directly and will have advantage when using them.
            If the crafting of class specific weapons (ex.: gun+ ammo) require crafting energy and a hunter uses it: less energy will be used for abilities like raise pet/animal/create traps. If another class weapon is used the corresponding hut will be necessary to make the ammo/weapons. With some nice cooldown balance on range weapons/spells/damage/defense: players will have alot of ways to build their game. This way games will be unpredictable.
            Still there may be some penalty or disadvantage on using bow/gun/magical staff/big club for other classes (20% miss; or decrease in attack speed / movespeed/damage). All classes will have advantages in using specific type of items, but will also be free to use everything else in the game.
            Also str/agi/int may affect effective use of different types of weapons. Ammo: all class ammo to be available in the corresponding buildings. It can be used for towers also.

        • Coats / Armors

          • All coats: could provide minor regeneration (less than mask / maybe 25%).
          • All coats: may reduce wind / snow negative effect by 50%.
          • Lined coats - could remove negative effect of wind/snow (same as rain effect). In ver5.7 storm/snow drops health/heat very fast and its hard to counter without a tent/hut : especially on normal and hard difficulty. Purpose of coat is also to protect from weather effects.
          • heat restoring items: leather clothes / armors / masks / hats: all could increase heat (equal to low lvl fur clothes)/ or also to increase maxheat. Heat is a significant factor in the game.
          • Armors(fur) upgrade: instead of only need giant shell to upgrade: 4 chitin/2 shell/1 giant shell could be used as alternatives also for reinforcing all fur coats, allowing quick use of resources available in current game). Each material could provide different protection.
          • Armors(leather): 5 bone/ 4 chitin / 2 bronze / 2 shells / 2 iron: could be used to upgrade increasing armor; resist +15/20/25/30/30%
        • Shields

          • More options to make shields: from giant shell/shell/chitin/aligator,snake leather/bronze/iron. There should be several different types directly created, instead of upgrading the shield 2 times from tortoise shell. Shields are effective for countering ranged classes like hunters/inventors in multiplayer. If there is hunter/inventor rush with bows/guns: no time to go across map looking for giant shell for reinforce armor/ or/ exactly small shell for shield.
          • Shaman is unable to make a shield and has to wait for the snake quest in order to get one. The shields(above lvl2) may affect the number of throwing weapons/spellbooks allowed to carry instead of not be usable by shaman. For inventor: Gun only(could be changed to be usable with a shield: like a single handed weapon. Shotguns/Sniper guns could be requiring 2 hands therefore not compatible with shields).
          • Shields could reduce rain/wind effect when resting :)


      • Items / detectors / spells

        • Firecamp kit + 1 wood at start (1 per tribe) would be a very good addition for teams. Would aid new players in early game.
        • Firecamp when lit can have aura to cause fear in animals (chance to miss / scare). Bosses and elder beasts can be immune.
        • All structures should require channeling to build instead of summon (several players can build faster). Although it would complicate gameplay and mechanics.
        • Detectors

          • Easier craft of torch - add to all class crafting.
          • Inventor Flares to be available in workshop and usable by all / tower.
          • Watch tower can give large vision of an area (old idea by co_oki)
            It could function similar to observatories in SCII: when a player is close to the tower it gives larger vision of surrounding area like air unit. Also a torch can be placed in the tower for true sight :)
        • Tent/Hut(shelter) option created from basic resources for alternative (or linen). Currently it requires combat for specific leather/fur. More options could be useful for early game on Normal/Hard difficulty. Also all tents should require at least 1 rope to be more realistic.
        • Mirror image spell / tooltip doesnt say that it dispels all effects.
        • Hex / Freeze / Hands spellbooks have too fast cooldown. A bit higher cooldown/energy cost would balance gameplay. Freeze/hands spell could also allow attack. With 2 spellbooks of this type any unit can be disabled permanently (there is no cooldown time between reload if using 2 spellbooks). In 5.7.0 it can be countered only with mirror image / invulnerability(mask cannot be created). Cooldown needs to be balanced.
        • Horror totem effect: in addition to scare may also temporarily reduce dmg/tremble - Effects: howl of terror/drunken haze. Spooky aura could be added to prevent shades from scouting/revive quick.
        • Additional spellbooks

          Spellbooks could be created from rare trophy items:
          Summoning (spirit hawk / spirit wolf / spirit bear / spirit dragon); Each book allows 1 summoned unit at a time (permanent). Could be 2 lvls - upgradable once - increasing unit stats/ adding abilities (true sight/critical/bash/poison attack).
          Summons may require crafting energy like pet for balance (100/150/200/200 energy). Also could be used to empower wand/staff (could use crafting energy and have a long cooldown to prevent spamming powerfull units. Allso should not be possible to disassemble). The summoned unit can be controlled while spellbook/empowered weapon is equipped / otherwise can turn ethereal and become inactive (no vision; no control) / or disappear. Books may be combined to form separate arcanum of summoning.

          Purge spell : for dispelling effects / or damaging summoned units.


        • some voodoo doll spells tend to directly kill the players. Spells can match normal spellbook effects / provide vision / some miss chance heat/ms/dmg decrease / hunger buff.
        • Thermo bottle:
          heat / energy restore

          Made from petrified wood in doctor hut: (something like DotA bottle used on runes/fountain). Can load with hot water in mineral spring/cauldron. Gives 3 or 5 charges that restore heat and energy (mineral water: 25heat/25energy; normal hot cauldron water: 15heat/15energy). Also can be used for the mineral water quest (players make bottle and it is then returned to player after quest complete).
          It could be effective in early game for restore heat /energy.

        • all masks / hats can provide additional heat / range attack resist.
        • Boat: Options for providing heat / speed upgrade would be good / maybe add a weapon to the boat for attack options(like a tower). It would become mobile shelter / attack facility.
      • quests: fair play

        • mineral water / frog quest: player items should be used to complete. This will give chance to all tribes to complete the quest, and remove possibility of players picking up the item and the quest to be unable to complete by others. No need for going once to middle of the map to take a quest item / then go to complete quest.
        • mineral water quest: a vial/bottle could be created by players and used.
        • frog quest mechanics: the quest item should instead be returned to troll chief, who provides the quest reward (egg that is placeable by players): the same mechanics as the quest with Giant egg/poisons. Players will be able to place the egg in any location / or sell it if they dont need it.
        • Piranha quest: one item could drop when piranhas are destroyed(scourge bone chimes). So only the player who brings it will receive the reward. If no item is required: anyone could take the reward after the piranhas were destroyed.
        • ring quest: the 2 required items could be inside some nests (to prevent possibility of taking right away with air units / or just take and run).
        • Mask (quest item) should be modified to be regarded as normal mask(in imbue recipes) so additional effects could be added to it by players. Only the evasion makes it not very effective to use, compared to masks with invulnerability/invisibility/regeneraton. Also the mask could have its unique effect: (example: additional Hitpoints/MaxHeat/MaxFood ; or Provide temporary InnerFire: Dmg/Armor increase).
        • Quest mechanics: the possibility of a completed quest to occur fast again has to be lowered, to prevent repeat.
        • Quest messages in multiplayer are not logged / do not appear in chat. Log works only in Single player. It is often hard to notice the messages due to combat / tasks. Same for spawning of boss types - if a player is not reading the quest message, later he could not check what was it / or exactly what boss has appeared.
        • Additional quests: requiring some other resources / crafting of specific items would also improve gameplay.
      • Visual improvements

        • Ally / Enemy color for teams would be good as some player colors are very hard to notice on minimap. The 3 teams can have 3 different team colors when there is more players in games.
        • Troll model texture variations:
          Suggestion

          If possible option to customize models skin color (or add some tatoo :)) at start or in game with those available in editor: forest troll / dark troll /ice troll / / chaos / other. Currently only forest troll type model is used. Example: model for shadow hunter is used for shaman class: in addition to the green model - players may choose blue/chaos/ice troll texture. Or applying some colors to models could be used alternatively to texture change. If it is moderate it could add some visual diversity to team battles.

        • Loading screen: map name and version details could be added.


    Overall gameplay will improve the more possibilities there are to adapt to different strategies like increase speed / hitpoints / Increase block/resist for range dmg / use wider variety of different types of weapons/equipment.


    While posting those parchments, I learned a few things about forum editing/formatting. This way when there is more information it could be read easier. I take a few notes sometimes when I play JTR, so maybe some of the ideas could help improve the map eventually.


    Keep up the good work :psmile:
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015