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Is Terran balanced?

Discussion in 'StarCraft I & II' started by MGCǂSpectre, Aug 16, 2010.

?

Is Terran balanced?

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    56.4%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    43.6%
  1. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    What the guy shows on TL positioning mutas in battle is good. However, in a real environment you dont just have thors, so the talk who counters the other how much is needless when in fact you use marines and medivacs apart from thors. Zerg uses banelings to firstly take out your MMM, then when thors remain they finish them with Mutas. My sucky opponents though failed when they didnt attack with mutas at the same time haha.
     
  2. Dark Hunter1357

    Dark Hunter1357

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    i just played a game againts 3 terrans and i was on mutas. The thors were crushed by my mutas. But then the marines came. they killed off all my mutas one terran was on mass marine medivac and he countered me easily.
     
  3. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    What the TL posts about positioning mutas is also valid for mutas vs marines.
     
  4. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    This is rather shallow and doesn't reflect reality in many cases.

    For example, Banelings are not light and Hellions only do most of their damage against Light. Hellions are Light and Banelings do bonus damage against Light. By your argument, Banelings counter Hellions. However, the reverse is true.

    This post is an excellent example of why people are full of shit.

    #1: Not being able to rush and win 100% of the time is a sign of balance, not imbalance.

    #2: Your anecdote proves nothing. The Terran players could easily have been better than the Protoss or Zerg players (Diamond has a huge skill distribution), or they could have been lucky.

    #3: Even if you were totally right and ZvT was impossible for the Zerg to win or whatever, then that would say nothing about TvP and thus Terran as a whole.

    How so? It addresses how to negate Thor splash damage. Marines don't have splash.
     
  5. Dark Hunter1357

    Dark Hunter1357

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    actually if i do that i will get terrible terrible damage to my mutas.
     
  6. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Mariens still deal lots of damage to mutalisks, however marines have low enough health that mutalisks are moderatly effective against them. It all comes down to numbers. You must remember that marines are 1 pop, have stim usually and can be built over 4 per mutalisk (gas is worth more than minerals at times).

    All in all its better to attack marines with things like broodlords or ultralisks than mutalisks. Like wise with thors you generally do not want to use ultralisks to get rid of them.

    Ofcourse nothing prevents you from doing so if they are poorly positioned or low in numbers. Even mass marines could take down a couple of templars by themselves if that is the onlything in the way between victory.
     
  7. JimBob

    JimBob

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    It actually all comes down to positioning. How you position your troops is usually what will determine whether you win or not.

    I've won numerous games with marines a lone. If you spam marines just know that it's not necessarily about building a giant crowd of marines and attacking the enemy. It's about strategy! It's about using the surroundings to your advantage! It's about creating diversions! It's about breaking the marines up into many small groups and sending them all over the place while constantly harassing the enemy base while drawing their main army away! It's about multiple ambushes and raids working simultaneously! It's about surprising your opponent every 10s of the game! It's about keeping those marines coming and getting them into position! It's about issuing multiple commands at once! It's about multy-tasking! It's about overwhelming your enemy with confusion!

    It's about taking your enemy by surprise and sometimes the best way to do that is to show them something they've never seen before. To find the most unique and unbelievable strategy's and use it against them. They will never know what hit them. By the time they come to determining what the crap is wrong with you is the time they find themselves completely blown away by what just happened!

    Ulysses S. Grant said it best, “The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on.”

    What I said above all comes down to how and where you position your troops and how fast you can do it. It takes a tremendous amount of skill and experience to make it work. Very few have ever mastered this, but it can be done. I am one of the few and this strategy has rarely failed me. I've probably used it about 60 times so far in SC2 battle net and won about 59 of them. I may have lost one or two, but I don't remember and those loses were because I had failed to position some of my troops fast enough.
     
  8. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    At first when I read his thread I thought he was showing that in close attack you will hit more targets than if you attack from larger range, as the glavies multi-targets you know. Well, it's clear that you have to separate your units to avoid splash. However, the same could be done about marines, to use this separation to avoid less hits from the same glavies. Basically this can be applied to anything, separating your units like that in TvT/ZvT if you're zerg to avoid a sudden sieged tank hitting all your units.
     
  9. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    No it can't, because

    #1: It's too hard to separate ground units that well.

    #2: Thors have way smaller splash than any of the other units you listed.

    --

    If your enemy loses TvZ to mass marines then they're, uh, retarded.
     
  10. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    In the previous TL thread about zerg being weak and terran imba, there was one good suggestion to make movement formation, so that they dont make a meat ball but keep some order. The more separated they are, the less losses even if other units have bigger splash. But it's true ground cant keep that formation.
     
  11. mrzwach

    mrzwach

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    All fine and good, but in a competitive environment, which SC2 has at higher levels, there is very little original/unique strategy that is actually effective.
    The glaive has significantly more bouncing range than a Thor's splash (0.5 for Thor versus 3.0 for the mutalisk). Furthermore, the reason why it works so well with mutas is because mutas are fast moving and airborne, making repositioning very easy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
  12. lightning brigade

    lightning brigade

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    The system forces a 50% win ratio, due to this, the more games they win, they will then be put up against higher level players, at that point, they will either win and get a lot of points, or lose and add to that ratio. The thing is, the lowbie terrans often fight experienced terrans. And that's when they lose, but because the more you win, the more chance you have of facing an experienced toss or terran, the more wins a race has as a whole, and the more noobs in that same race, the less wins they'll have at the inevitable 50% mark. Get it? Got it? Good.
     
  13. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    By this argument we should see too many Terrans at the top and not enough at the bottom. However, we see too many at the bottom.
     
  14. kola

    kola

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    hmm... lightning brigade is right. its made to have a 50% win ration.
    Also, i checked your link purplepoot, i know there is a lot of noobs terran but its because the first Race new players are trying is the terrans. here is top 100 players.. I counted them, 45 terrans, 32 protoss, 21 zergs, 2 random.
     
  15. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    And if you check the top 500, 1000, and 2000, the list is Protoss by a huge margin. If you check the top 10, it's fairly varied, and in Korea it's heavily biased towards Zerg (4 zerg when only ~20% of players are Zerg).

    You're picking a sample size to support your argument regardless of the fact that every other sample size does not.
     
  16. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    You are also not someone who plays seriously, hah I cant say im playing seriously but I mean, you dont play to become good and yet you're starting to understand things. There is hope for humanity afterall, after so many no-comment posts i read by others. This has to be rewarded :>
     
  17. TwistedImage

    TwistedImage

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    The only Terran units I have problems with are marines and siege tanks.

    Siege tanks are simply pure and utter bullshit. They are way too cheap for their power - as zerg, there isn't really a good counter before ultralisks, and by the time I get those I'll be torn apart. Stalkers can kill them if they have blink, albeit suffering ridiculous losses. Unsure about terrans. Talking about tanks en masse with units at the front, FYI.

    Marines simply deal a tad too high DPS. They just need a really small nerf to their attack speed, and they're good.
     
  18. StormWarriors2

    StormWarriors2

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    Ok Wtf? 125 Gas and Minerals is cheap? What The F^@!
    Siegetanks get ripped apart by ultralisks. And Hydralisks. What are you smoking?
     
  19. TwistedImage

    TwistedImage

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    Hydralisks?

    Bahahahaha.

    A siege tank deals 50 damage, am I right? It also has a mean splash radius. Assuming the Terran is not completely retarded and has vision of the hydralisks before they are within 6 range, roughly one third of the hydralisks will be dead before even firing once, given proper tank placement. Hydralisks have freakin' 80 health. Now put some marauders in front of the tanks. Well, shit. Hydralisks have to pass marauders to even get at the tanks.

    Say we are using 200 supply armies. That's 100 hydralisks. It would be 66 tanks if I'm right, but anyone with a brain knows that siege tanks suck alone. Say 50 siege tanks - that's 150 supply taken. You can now add 25 marauders.

    All the hydralisks will be dead before the last marauder falls, given micro skills above low bronze on the terran's part.

    Ultralisks, sure. But again, they are tier 3. Zerg will be destroyed by tanks before getting them.

    EDIT: 125/125 is not cheap, but considering the ridiculous amount of firepower packed in a tank, yeah, it is cheap.
     
  20. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    Siege Tanks and Marines are two of the safest, most consistent units in the game. Sort of like Mutalisks, if you will.

    Marines need their high DPS since they absolutely cannot absorb damage. Infestors or banelings rip them to shreds like nobody's business, and even units which you might think they are strong against (such as Mutalisks) aren't too bad off due to the Marines' extremely low life.

    Siege Tanks, however, have no "cute" counters (as Zerg that is) and basically you just need lots of stuff to deal with them (same as in Brood War). Their major weakness is being caught out of position, especially if they are on creep (and thus your units move at roughly the speed of light), or to flanks (which can be devastating because their life is pathetic). If they're lazy on their Marine or Thor count then mass Mutalisks can clean up (remember, you need about 3 Mutalisks per Thor).

    Neither needs a nerf, and Zerg (as well as Protoss and Terran) can address both of them just fine.