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Inner Sanctum

Submitted by fostaa
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Description:

A medium size map for 4 players suitable for 'Last man standing' or 2v2 battles.
You are in a dark mountainous region, surrounded by fire and rocky hills.
Players can find a tavern with 6 unique heroes and a haunt with a variety of mercenaries to hire.


MAP SPECIFICS:


[​IMG] Players 4
[​IMG] Creep Camps 12 20 5
[​IMG] Neutral Buildings 13
[​IMG] Gold Mines 8



CREDITS:




Change Log:



06.11.2018


  • Uploaded



08.11.2018


  • Added new camps (2nd level, with Salamanders)
  • Loot from the Rock Golems increased by one level;
  • Killing Rock Golems will cause the rock chunks behind them to collapse, allowing the AI enemies to actually be able to go into the outer skirts of the map;
  • Killing Siege Golems will cause the doors behind them to collapse, allowing the AI enemies to actually be able to enter the inner sanctum and eventually fight the enemies inside;
  • Slight change to the trees' color so it fully matches the environment colors;
  • Trees' color indication on the minimap changed accordingly;
  • Many monster camps are now set to be less aggressive to passing enemies.



12.11.2018


  • Added Tavern with 6 new heroes;
  • Other small fixes and changes.



22.11.2018


  • Heroes reworked slightly;
  • Terrain reworked slightly;
  • Some neutral units are reworked;
  • Other minor fixes.






Keywords:
dungeon, fostaa, 2v2, balanced, melee
Contents

Inner Sanctum (Map)

Reviews
Remixer
Remixer's CommentInner Sanctum features heavily themed slightly altered melee experienced, with tweaked neutral buildings, items and units. While the core elements of the map remain close to the ordinary melee game, its game components offer quite...
deepstrasz
Maybe you should increase the protection for the Fiery Hunt since it sells a lot of units especially those powerful ones and one player could potentially buy those all in one go too early on or at least without a proper fight. Nice idea with the rune...
  1. master Gul'dan

    master Gul'dan

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    Set tag to melee map.
     
  2. LordDz

    LordDz

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    Why is the Fire Lord placed as a creep? (According to the screenshot)
     
  3. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Have you even tried the map, both of you..? :D
     
  4. LordDz

    LordDz

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    Yeah I've opened it now and I still stand by my point:
    The Flame Guardian uses the Fire Lord model, which will confuse people.

    Also the player starting positions aren't properly placed, you can see that the starting location point is missing the town hall model.

    Red Dragon in the middle has a 50% chance of dropping Necklace of spell Immunity, which is a real OP item. Not sure if you should include it.

    Those are my nitpicks, I'll let the map moderators poke ya about balance, etc :)
     
  5. fostaa

    fostaa

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    1. Flame Guardian is just a normal creep here, I don't even know why you mention it. I won't change it - that was my idea at first place.
    2. Player starting positions are 'fixed' now. Even though there wasn't any reason to move them but... whatever.
    3. About the Necklace - I totally agree about it. I even though about this before uploading the map. I changed the drop chance to 5% and it will now drop on the ground when the wearer dies.

    Cheers.
     
  6. Remixer

    Remixer

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    Comment
    Remixer's Comment
    Inner Sanctum features heavily themed slightly altered melee experienced, with tweaked neutral buildings, items and units. While the core elements of the map remain close to the ordinary melee game, its game components offer quite different gameplay.
    1/5






    Review
    Quota
    Annotation
    Rules
    The map does not break any rules and can be reviewed.
    Terrain
    One can rarely see a melee map featuring the 'Dungeon' tile set for very obvious reasons. The tile set lacks proper elements fit for melee game, such as buildable ground tiles and balanced creeps. Whilst the terrain of the map is quite thematic and in a way refreshing to see, it lacks in various areas: the doodad and detail usage is extremely repetitive not a lot of creativity has been used for aesthetic level of the map. The terrain also has clear flaws in terms of melee experience: buildable areas on top of hill tops that are innaccessible and a lot of walkable areas on unreachable areas, that can be exploited on Night Elf's Warden. Tiny gaps reaching deep into the forests must also be avoided in order to not allow Night Elf wisps to safely gather resources, being unreachable by the enemies.
    Gameplay
    The map brings interesting twists such as destructible rock chunks onto gameplay. While the obstacles are placed almost equally for all players (some players need to destroy more chunks to gain access to same areas) they unfortunately do restrict playing the map against AI and also restrict the movement around the map a lot - a bit too much. The resources on the map are more than sufficient and the expansion site seems far superior to the main starting location, including a 30,000-gold Gold Mine and more safe location on the map, once again restricted by destructibles, and the superiority of the expansion can be questioned. The starting bases are also a bit small - with a creep camp heavily restricting the building area at the start of the game. Creep camps are often awkwardly placed, attacking armies on move and blocking off certain areas of the map until killed. The creeps are also quite strong (often the case in Dungeon). The creeps also do not often form an actual camp but are scattered around, making it very awkward - but this seems intentional.
    Notable
    factors
    [​IMG] Notable uniqueness.
    [​IMG] Notable exectution.
    [​IMG] Notable experience.
    Summary
    Merits:
    + Dungeon themed melee maps are refreshing
    + Creativity has been used (rock chunks)
    + More or less equal to all players

    Demerits:
    - Tile usage is lacking
    - Terrain has balance-issues causing flaws
    - (Strong) creep camps blocking pathways to enemies
    - Doodad usage is repetitive and not very creative
    - AI-killing gates and rock chunks
    - Custom made Mercenary Camps look quite overpowered


    Suggestions:
    • Improve tile usage and amount and placement of doodads and try to make the cliffs look more natural and randomized
    • Check the creep placement and try to make it more convenient
    • Put (many) of the creep camps onto 'Guard' mode
    • Adjust balances of the custom neutral buildings (and creeps)
    • Fix the terrain issues mentioned (unaccessible, but walkabe/buildable)
    • Put a red-tint on the trees and fix their placement
     
  7. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Thank you for the summary.
    I am not the best in terraining - I'd even say that this is the best terrain I've ever done. The doodads are repetitive because the map is slightly larger than I expected and I had to fill the borders with something; in a normal unexplored mode, the mountains won't be seen too much by anyone.
    Unfortunately the AI is, again, something I am not good at but I already thought about the AI destroying the rock chunks and the gates. Hopefully I find a way to make them do this.

    So, despite the AI which I intend to check if I can fix it, can you please tell me how to:
    -"Put red-tint on trees" ? What do you mean?
    -Please be more specific about the camps that are overpowered? Because I can barely agree with that actually. I always wondered why people expect camps to be easy since you actually get loot and/or a neutral building there relatively to the level of the camp. Especially loot.



    Cheers.


    **
    EDIT: I've fixed the issue where a Warden can blink onto a hilltop (added trees, hopefully it contributes to 'the diversity' of the landscape, etc...)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  8. Remixer

    Remixer

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    The players are able to see the doodads and undecorated areas through fog of war, so them being in unaccessible areas is not a reason to give them little love. Natural repetition is acceptable, but currently you use very few doodads (majority are small rock spires and lava cracks) and you utilize other props and environmental elements very little. Try to check out other maps that feature the similar theme or other maps and try to adapt ideas and execution patterns from them - they don't necessarily need to be 'Dungeon' but you can think if you could reproduce something you can see elsewhere in your thematic setting.

    I'd recommend not using destructible obstacles if you wish the map to be played against AI. Gates can be used quite easily, as you can open them via triggers very easily without causing any troubles.

    You're currently using Northrend Tree Wall, which naturally has a blue tint (on its texture). As the blue hue on the trees is intentional to fit icy environment I'd recommend to colorize the trees to a reddish hue via Object Editor (you might also want to consider changin the minimap color for the trees). Something like in these images:
    Images
    BlueTint.png RedTint.png

    The map currently has 1 actual green creep camp per player. The second easiest camps are the golems guarding rock chunks, and they are already very strong: the units are magic immune, have slow and a hurl boulder ability. Generally Dungeon tileset creeps are very strong (many have Chaos Damage, damaging spells and high health pool).

    Edit:
    I checked your edit on the map (regarding the trees added). You did understand what I meant but sadly you did not cover up nearly all the locations that this can be done at, and even still there is practically no area on the map where Warden couldn't blink onto a hill top. Additionally using trees isn't the best idea as they can be destroyed and thus 'unlock' walkability on the hill tops. I'd recommend altering the cliffs, making them completely unwalkable and it would overall look more pleasant as the flat hill tops are very unnatural-looking.
     
  9. fostaa

    fostaa

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    I want to thank you for your time and the through description of what you wanted to say.
    1. The mountains, rocks, etc are placed there to look like they look at the moment and I do not intend to change them anymore.
    2. Trees may not be the best solution but I would not consider walkable hilltops as any kind of problem. They even look pretty natural to me. I would even remove the trees I've placed (or at least most of them) as I do not like how it looks.
    3. The destructibles (rock chunks) will stay there and it's more like that I make them all "die" when the rock golem dies. Speaking of the rock golem - it is definitely not OP monster cuz it has low HP and is perfect for its place. Tired of people complaining about the creep camps.
    4. People may be confused by the model of the Firelord at the mercenary camp but it is my idea to put it there ...very, very intentionally. Whoever gets confused is not anyone's problem but theirs. It would be actually stupid if anyone thinks it's a hero-type of unit, but anyway...
    ***
    Now, the things that might eventually get changed:
    -Creeps (balancing the camps' level and location, but not really too much);
    -Trees' actual color and their map indication color (if that's possible at all, but I will check it);
    -Most likely I will make the rock chunks behind the rock golems to shatter after killing the golem;
    -If I am in the mood soon, I might create bonus heroes to each race.
    ***
    Really, thank you for your abundant description and suggestions but I barely see anything major (as problem) in the map.
    I am making these maps for me and my friends and I am just sharing them here.

    So, that is it for now and I will make another update soon enough.

    Cheers.
     
  10. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Updated (info in the change log section in the map description).
    Next update will most likely include new heroes.

    Cheers.
     
  11. Remixer

    Remixer

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    Good idea to make the chunks and gates open up upon killing the creeps guarding them.
     
  12. Neruvatar

    Neruvatar

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    Dungeon tiles often attract my eyes (obviously), but I think you could work more on the terrains/visuals. Haven't downloaded it, just commenting while looking at your screenies.
     
  13. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Updated (iNFo in the description of the map).

    Map is almost complete. Next update will include terrain changes, mostly. Map is ready for approval.

    If any major bugs - please PM me or write a comment here.
     
  14. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    1. Maybe you should increase the protection for the Fiery Hunt since it sells a lot of units especially those powerful ones and one player could potentially buy those all in one go too early on or at least without a proper fight.
    2. Nice idea with the rune shop. Maybe you could change the hue/icon of each of them to make them easier to remember which is which without reading every time. These programs help with that:
      Button Manager v1.8.2
      BLP Lab v0.5.0
    3. The Dungeon Lord has two Pit Lord spells and Thunder Clap. Not quite original.
    4. Some spell descriptions should be more specific. Write the values. Fear of the Dark doesn't mention how much armour it decreases, at least not in the ability learn menu.
    5. Death Wave=Stampede.
    6. Fel Spider Bite's icon=the spider hero's.
    7. You should balance the costs for the runes. Spirit Link is a powerful spell and the rune only costs 150 gold.
    8. Some of the new items have their icons like other hero spells (Vampiric Aura and Spiked Carapace). You could make them look different. Be sure to balance the items. Armour is quite important and the items cost the same. 10 agility gives less armour than 10. Maybe the armour item should not also give hit points.
    9. Sad that the middle part has many narrow tunnels.
    10. Fel Combustion=Forked Lightning. Maybe you could enhance it further.
    11. Totally imbalanced to have Reincarnation from level 1 in early game/rush tactics.
    12. Spirit Shatter=Thunder Clap. So you've got two spells like it, one slowing movement speed and the other attack speed.
    13. Expose Weakness=Fear of the Dark. Try not to be repetitive.
    Approved.



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  15. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Thank you, deep.

    Most (if not all) of the things you mentioned are already taken in consideration. To be honest I am disappointed myself from a few things - most of all the narrow tunnels in the middle but yea...
    At the moment I am working on the current melee contest - trying to catch (the !@#$ up!) with it because I had extremely many things to do around the holidays and I did not have the time for the contest and I'm in not-the-very-beginning and I got like 2-3 days...

    Thank you for your time again, I will work on this one later.

    Cheers.