if somebody could advice

[Kernel Dr.Volt_age]

iam pretty new to terraining and i know now how to make a forest and a island theme ...if somebody could pls give some tips, advice how to make a nice desert theme i would give rep+..thx

 

[Gilles]

A little vague perhaps? Use tiles and doodads that match!? Get an idea do a wip, then post it, people will give more ideas and critique it.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Creating a desert is very simple really, use the sunken ruins tileset and have a lot of sand varying with the 2 sand tiles mostly

Then place some barrens cactus trees and other things that might match, though there isn't that many doodads in the WE matching a desert.

 

[Kernel Dr.Volt_age]

thx alot...ehm just thought that there are some special ways to make it look more interresting ...how the hills should be or something...so ill try it and send a pic for feedback ...again thx and rep+ for both

 

[Craka_J]

Deserts look best with both the Sunken Ruins Dirt and Sand tiles everywhere.
Barrens tiles make an alright desert too. Make sure you use a lot of tile variation but don't make it look sloppy, make it look natural. Can't place grass, sand, dirt, stone path, and blight all in one area otherwise it looks disgusting and too much is going on in one spot.

Tiles aren't the only factor of terraining though, you'll also need to use very good doodad placement and planning out your terrain is a good way to get things done. The way you place doodads and tiles is pretty much what makes the terrain your style, so I won't tell you how to do this kind of stuff.

Always make hills and mountains look real. Pointy hills are a massive no, no. Pointy mountains are usually a big no, no as well, but sometimes if it's in a spooky place or if you're trying to remake the mountain from The Grinch. Mountains and Hills look best as smooth round lumps. Mountains should obviously be ten times taller than a hill though unless if you're trying to make a far view kind of area then that's different.
Hopefully what I've said helped you!
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

Craka, you must have a few hundred mini tutorials all over the place.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

I disagree with you on the barrens tiles Craka, I have yet to see any good desert-like terrains with a barrens tile in it, could you make a terrain and show me how to do it? Because currently I am doing a lot of desert area myself and if I could actually get a 4th tile to use in it then that would be really great, but I just don't know how to make it look decent.

 

[Kernel Dr.Volt_age]

thx craka surely your comm helped alot.....now ive made a desert and some screens wich i would like to show you

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

I really like the first pic and the second looks okay too, the third is way too crowded around the pond thingie and the skull doodad doesn't fit in very well.

The 4th pic is taken from a really bad angle.

 

[Kernel Dr.Volt_age]

ok thx ....i just wanted to know if the desert is ok

 

[Campir]

I really like the first pic and the second looks okay too, the third is way too crowded around the pond thingie and the skull doodad doesn't fit in very well.

The 4th pic is taken from a really bad angle.

For your comment about the third --- HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A DESSERT OASIS! There one of the few sources of water in the dessert so in real life, naturally tons of vegetations corwds around them. And why doesnt the skull fit in well... its a fucking dessert... some dumb cow is bound to die in it.

 

[Kernel Dr.Volt_age]

thx for advice next time ill place more vegetation around the oasis

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

For your comment about the third --- HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A DESSERT OASIS! There one of the few sources of water in the dessert so in real life, naturally tons of vegetations corwds around them. And why doesnt the skull fit in well... its a fucking dessert... some dumb cow is bound to die in it.

No need for such a hostile stance. The picture is crowded, I doubt that many trees would be that close together in such a small area, it would be spread out more. No matter what it doesn't look good and that is what it's about?

And the skull doesn't fit in well with the ground textures.

 

[Craka_J]

Screenshots look great. But don't be afraid to put little units such as vultures or scorpions in them... the empty ones atleast. As desolate as the deserts can be, they do have life and adding a few little critters won't hurt is placed in good spots and scaled to a realistic size as well. Some times tinting the color can improve it as well. And speaking of which, the grass in that last screenshot needs to be tinted darker. Maybe make the tint 100,100,100?
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Craka, you must have a few hundred mini tutorials all over the place.

lol I probably do. Hopefully I'll get the patience to make one large tutorial or several of them soon. Doubtful though...

I disagree with you on the barrens tiles Craka, I have yet to see any good desert-like terrains with a barrens tile in it, could you make a terrain and show me how to do it? Because currently I am doing a lot of desert area myself and if I could actually get a 4th tile to use in it then that would be really great, but I just don't know how to make it look decent.

I'll gladly make a barrens terrain and show you how it can look pretty good. It's harder to make Barrens look like a desert using just Barrens tiles, but a small example would be the Barrens (Durotar) in the Bonus Campaign where Thrall is and all that with the Centaurs and Harpies. To be honest, the terrain doesn't look that bad. However, Blizzard Terrainers don't know too well what they're doing and almost never use the useful fog triggers they could've used to improve the look of their terrain.
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

However, Blizzard Terrainers don't know too well what they're doing and almost never use the useful fog triggers they could've used to improve the look of their terrain.
~Craka_J

But they make money at what we do for fun Although they could have done so much better then they did/do. (How many new maps come out still, since WoW?)

 

[Craka_J]

If I was getting paid to make Warcraft maps, then I think I'd be a lot more careful with terraining maps and make them look as good as I possibly can. But Blizzard terrainers get paid, and as long as that is happening, we have no right to say we are better I guess.
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

I suppose, but WC3:WoW vs the blizzard Campaign? I think WC3:WoW looks a lot more beautiful! Although I guess we don't write game code really (Except JASS, which didn't they not make?). Does the fact that graphics have improved have anything to do with the high-res models and doodads looking better then most WC3 models?

 

[Craka_J]

Well Blizzard made their own models, and so did we. If ours looks better, then it is obvious that Blizzard did not choose their terrainers too wisely.
Oh I'd love to be working for Blizzard as a terrainer. Atleast I take pride in my work and improve it when I can! Not trying to brag... but seriously, I am not a fan at all of Warcraft III terrainers. However I do like WoW's terrain, so I give those guys a pat on a back atleast
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

I think that just the quality expected from games now has gone up, when WC3 first came out it was spectacular, and as time has gone on people have improved the terrain, thing is blizzard doesn't really care what their terrain looks like now, wc3 isn't pulling in the big bucks for them.

Also the time some people take (I'm kind of guessing) on a terrain is a lot longer than Blizzard does. It would take a huge team to make as many maps as Blizzard has, with the quality we usually have on the HW.

 

[Mor)L(unE]

Well Blizzard had a pretty big team aswell aint it?

 

[Gilles]

I thought so, but I have read an article, and I think Starcraft 2 or maybe Starcraft had a small team (One of the games did). So I'm not sure if Warcraft did or not, I'm sure WoW did and does still though.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

The people doing the actuall level design there isn't too many of I think.

 

[Craka_J]

Their problem is they rush a lot and if you look at WC3, they never really make the terrain creative, such as PG Uping doodads to make a cool temple or whatever. It's all bland and I'm not really a big fan of how they work with the terrain. The only map I really enjoyed playing besides their bonus maps they add on the site such as their AoS map is the Bonus Campaign with Rexxar. Though I think the gameplay and storyline was what made it great. Terrain was just enough to satisfy me.
~Craka_J

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

The quality of their terrain varies a lot, sometimes it is ok, sometimes a bit above average but usually way below average and sometimes nearing horrible.

But that didn't matter the first time you played as that was the best there was.

 

[Craka_J]

Very true. Probably the reason why the terrain is different style every map is because of having different terrainers. Terraining is no different from drawing; all artists have their own special style with how they draw things, how everything is placed, the way the proportions are sometimes, the contrast and depth, all that gets jammed into one big category called 'style' and each terrainer/artist has the same thing.
So yeah, probably had about four terrainers working on WC3 at the time. Maybe six. And I do agree that some maps were nice, terrain-wise and that some had bad terrain, but I guess that's what made the game more interesting in a way not even you would notice while playing until after you've played. It's kinda like reverse phsycology.
~Craka_J