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[Strategy / Risk] Halo Wars RTS

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by SuperbAvalon, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. Footman16

    Footman16

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    Replace the Grass with any of these: DirtGrass, Dirt, DirtRough, GrassDark and rock.

    I'm guessing for snow it would be TerrainArt\Northrend\North_Snow.blp
     
  2. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    Huh, now it's not showing up at all. I'm doing that exact one, for the Snow.

    TerrainArt\Northrend\North_Snow.blp
     
  3. Footman16

    Footman16

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    Try TerrainArt\Icecrown\Ice_Snow.blp
     
  4. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    Nothin'. I don't get it.
     
  5. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    A good way of finding accurate texture paths is this:

    *Download magos war3editor.

    *Open it, and go window>MPQ browser

    *Click "File", and then choose either war3.mpq or war3x.mpq, depending on if you're looking for a file from RoC or from TFT.

    *Open the folder "TerrainArt" and browse your way until you find the tile you are searching for. You can double-click them to view in the editor. Once you've found the file, right-click it and go "copy path to clipboard".

    *Now you just need to press ctrl+v to paste the path in the import mamager!!
     
  6. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    No problem. Anyhow, a few things i noticed about your map:

    *On the jackal, you are attaching the needler to the "weapon" attachment, when it should be attached to the "hand,right" or "hand, left" attachment. Also, why is it tinted blue, and why did you attach the inner fire buff to it? :S

    About this - i added some missile models for the needler and plasma pistol to the models section. In the comments threads i also linked some muzzle models. What you do is, you create an ability based on "sphere", set "art - target" to the muzzle flash, set "attachment point" to "weapon", and all cooldowns, durations etc. to 0.1. Add it to your jackal. Now, the weapon will flash whenever he fires, and you can make it correspond to the weapon type.

    *You DO know there is already a model for the halo grunt here on the hive...? Just search for "grunt" in the models section.

    *The Moon Well water plane is attached to your supply boxes. Just remove the damn art path from the ability.

    *Why is lumber even a resource in this game? And why would the Covenant need to build a Lumber Mill?? At least change the resources to something that make sense, like Metal and Currency. Make it so you get the one periodically from capturing points, and the other from harvesting.

    *Why can the frigate MAC cannon only target organics? That makes no sense at all.

    *The wraith does ridiculous damage at very high range. In a melee game, i don't think you need the damages to be really that high.

    *Why are you using model textures as icons?? You DO realize, that every icon must have the path starting with "ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtons\BTN", and have a corresponding "disabled" icon with the path starting with "ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtonsDisabled\DISBTN" for it to not turn green whenever disabled. This you can also check out in the mpq browser.

    *For the trees, i recommend you do this: Import the normal tree (without snow) and the two dead trees using the paths "HaloTree0.mdx", "HaloTree1.mdx" and "HaloTree2.mdx". Then you find the lordaeron trees or whatever you are using in the destructable editor. Change its path to "HaloTree.mdl", number of variations to "3", and "has lightweight version" set to "false" (important!). Now all trees on your map will turn into halo trees. You just may want to change the variation of them so that not 66% of them are dead, lol. One way of doing this is to FIRST set number of variations to 1, so that all trees get this variation, and then change it back to 3 to manually set which trees are dead.

    *Create a doodad based on "mushrooms" or "shrub" and change its file path to the grass model. Place it randomly around the map.
     
  7. Footman16

    Footman16

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    Another thing that requires serious polishing my opinion is the tech trees for each race. You use of custom materials as well. Playing around with my start map some more I got this sort of thing going. I'm showing you these screenshots for a bit of an idea as to what you can do with this halo map.
     

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  8. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    Wait what? i didn't understand you fully.

    @Fingolfin: That's seriously helpful, I'll make all the necessary changes tomorrow. One thing, I mixed up the tile, is it improved now? Once I figure out how to replace the terrain, I'll definitely redo all of it but for now, how is it so far using the crappy Blizzard tile?
     
  9. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    That looks cool! You should make a halo map too! ;)

    My only issue so far is that you are using the spaceship props randomly placed on the map. I think you should only use that when making spaceship interiors, for maps like these, it would be even better to use Killst4rs starcraft terran buildings as placeholders.

    Speaking of this, i am working on an elephant model - and for the firrst time i decided to base it off halo wars rather than the FPS games. In other words, it will be a deployable structure which e fully enclosed back compartment, with morph and stand work animations. I was thinking it could be some kind of portable production structure and transport for the UNSC.


    @SuperbAvalon: Do you have images somewhere? I am personally strongly against mixing blizzard tiles with custom tiles unless they really, really fit together. Even mixing blizzard tiles which eachother is an art. One of your issues right now is that you can't seem to settle for a theme - you either go with snow, or with summer. But if you promptly need to have snow, i have a custom tile for that aswell.

    EDIT: OH, i noticed you DID settle for a theme, and this theme was snow. I see. I will link the snow tile in a minute.

    EDIT2: It appears i already posted the snow texture in the same post as where i posted the GrassBrightPale texture. Just check there.

    Anyhow, i added another texture which fits great together with the grass. Use it mainly in blotches under trees, since it is a kind of woodland texture.
     

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  10. Idaero Ace

    Idaero Ace

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    Well,, Avalon, I agree with Fingolfin. You need custom thingy.
    I haven't play it until finish. I just see around.

    The icons make me confused. And the description of the building is not too good.
    Also the terrain, I see there is a lava in a snow area. LOL.

    You need better unit. Although I am a Halo fans but your unit make me confused, I don't know what are they. Also Warthog attack is melee? I know it can smash units but I will prefer it shoot with its turret.

    Also, if you have question, feel free to create thread, but before that, I recommend you to search it on Google (that's my way, you also can search it directly in hive but I don't know.)

    Sorry for my bad English.

    Forgot something, don't multi posting. You can get banned for that. Use edit.



    Edit again: sorry for this post. It's all changed within seconds... Never mind about what I said.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  11. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    Yes, the melee warthog bugged me to. More than anything the fact that it used a sword sound, lol. At least change attack sound to wooden bash or something. But best of all would be to make it ranged, as it should be.

    Another thing you want to add is fog. Just go to "map options" (dunno which tab) and check "use fog". Set the start range to around 1500 and end to 8000. Set the color to "custom" and mix your way towards a bright teal or blue, it should almost be white. Like, R: 100, G: 150, B: 255. That would do. You can test the fog by pressing "V" in the editor (and you can test ingame camera by pressing C). It will provide a nice halo atmosphere.
     
  12. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kYtb68E4QY

    Well, I'm trying to stick with the Halo Wars units. It starts off with the Ram ability. Later tech levels unlock better Warthogs: Warthog(Ram) --> Warthog(LRV) --> Warthog(Gauss)

    I made it the metal bash sound I think, but I'll change to wooden bash. See if it sounds better :p

    Fog? That's cool. I'll implement that. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  13. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    No problem! Thank you for your input. It all helps. I made a lot of changes since the version you dled.
     
  14. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    Final Version is out. No, it's not done. But it's close! Try it out, let me know what you think :)

    Map Pack Delta: (Frozen Valley is the only Map released at the moment.)

    Frozen Valley 2v2 - Frozen Valley is a large 2v2 map in Halo Wars. The map is situated on
    nuclear-winter Harvest, with mountain ranges splitting up the map. Plenty of expansion sites
    can be found on this map and a Forerunner Factory is found in the center of the map. It is
    possible that the Forerunner may have battled the Flood here as the Factory suggests it was
    placed for the purpose of war, or it could have been used to reinforce Forerunner combatants
    that were damaged while fighting the Flood elsewhere.


    Release 1v1 - Release is the only map where you have a little bit of “Control” over the feral flood in Halo Wars.
    You quickly learn that controlling the Consoles that release the flood is key to victory but many players
    make the mistake of using the flood as a solitary attack strategy. If you know you can open the flood gate
    multiple times in quick succession, at the level three flood army size, then they may be enough on their own
    but until you’re at that point you should use the flood as a supplementary attack force. Early on whenever
    you’re planning an attack, if possible you should open the release gate around 20 seconds before your attack
    will hit the enemy. This makes the flood army a distraction while the real attack comes in from hopefully an
    undefended angle. Keeping your opponent busy in two locations can usually earn you a win.

    Tundra 1v1 - Tundra, the large open 1v1 map with a Mega turret shooting everyone. Sounds like an easy
    bar to hit but the Mega turret was cut from the map and was no longer going to be created at one point,
    so I was left with just a large open 1v1. Since I still wanted some interesting decisions to be made I put in
    more craters to break-up the map, but that alone just didn’t seem interesting enough watching people play
    this map in playtest. This is when I came up with the wall tower hooks. Putting the wall towers and the higher
    difficulty creeps guarding the close expansion bases gave me more of the game play I wanted to see for this
    map. Later on in the project the Covenant Mega turret was back in the production plan and was back on the
    map and became my favorite one to play.

    Labyrinth 2v2 -
    As far as gamplay goes, Labyrinth was one of the maps I played most while playtesting. There was a really good challenge the designers set for us, which was fastest time to beat 2 Legendary AI players in a 2v2 skirmish. The Skirmish AI is pretty good at keeping you from having both natural expansions at the same time, so it was always a back and forth for me and I usually ended up losing until I had one of the balance testers as my partners. He showed me that having a good defense, only going for 2 bases total and going for air on this map is very effective, given that it takes quite a while to traverse the map. Trying to keep and hold both expansions can be tough, so take your time and get a good foothold before going for both.
     
  15. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    Just some advice: do NOT release more maps before you have everything about the game nailed down. It will be a ton of work updating all the maps simultaneously to each little change.

    Anyhow, i tried the new map, and it is... better. Still not what it needs to be though.
    A small list:

    *Whevever you use the "ripple" terrain tool, make sure you use the smooth tool afterwards. Actually, don't use the ripple tool at all. It sucks.

    *You still have identical names on some units, like the infection form. Just name the worker something else, like "flood spore" or "flood worker", whatever.

    *Your AI is broken. It doesn't work anymore.

    *You still are not using the existent halo grunt model which i suggested.

    *I am not a huge fan of all the tiles. Even though you added mine, the ugly ice tile breaks off in a bad way. it is too blue. Not sure if this can be helped right now though, apart from not using that tile and preferably not using blizzard cliffs (use the raise tool instead), but since this is a melee map i guess you don't have to do that.

    *Again, why, WHY would you tint the bugger green when it already has exactly the colors it is supposed to have?? And why did you make it so small? I also suggest you base it off the Druid of the Talon, and make the alternate form be when it flies. The flying version can be faster, but have much lower damage (due to inaccuracy while flying).

    *The structures are completely misfitting. Only decent race so far is the flood. Why not use a purple-tinted nexus as the covenant citadel? A force field as the sentinel shield model, perhaps? Command center as the human base? Or this model, which is a bit smaller, or the Tesla Tower, just do some damn SEARCHING in the models section. There are categories for a reason.

    *Some balance is obviously poor. For instance, the infection forms are a bit expensive (or the carrier a bit cheap) - you do realize that three infection forms alone cost more than a carrier form, which when it dies, spawns three infection forms?

    *You could do a lot better on the icons. My suggestion is that you look up pictures on the internet, or better, take screenshots of the custom models in Magos Model Editor (using Gadwin Printscreen for instance, google it), then open them in this program. Now you can have your own super-accurate icons of all the models! Just MAKE SURE that they are of the size 64x64 pixels, since that is the size of an icon (can also be adjusted in paint). Import them using the paths i mentioned earlier. Oh, and only use black backgrounds. There is a special place in hell for people who use white backgrounds for their icons.
     
  16. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    Will make all the necessary changes, thank you!
     
  17. TheOverWhelming

    TheOverWhelming

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    So, my friend and I played this the other day and I made several suggestions. For some reason, the guy who "designed the flood" decided to kick me after a point
    Anyway, the game was alright. Here are several things I mentioned about the game
    - The Spawning Pool (the one that you can summon things from) operates awkwardly. Exhume Corpses doesn't feel like it works right on a structure like that. Just use the Graveyard ability while disabling autocast on Carriers (they spawn then summon something from a nearby corpse)
    - The 'battle flood' thing.. the Draenai looking one feels way too large and bulky

    - Not too new-player friendly.. Several wall of texts on the game and many people will not both reading something that's longer than 5 lines

    - Sharing Tech points income makes more sense, and at least add a timer that shows it. I cannot tell how close I am to getting that next tech point... I mentioned perhaps multiplaying everything by 100 so you can more accurately tell how close you are getting but it was taken on deaf ears

    If you are just planning to exactly recreate Halo Wars (as I was more-or-less told in game), good luck and simply ignore what I'm saying.
     
  18. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    I apologize, that should not have happened. I'll talk to him, no reason to be kicking players unless they've provoked it. Sharing tech points? It's a nice idea. But we want players fighting for control. If this means one player on a team having more TP than the other, start sending resources to your teammate or share them.

    Not too player friendly? I agree. Is there something you know of that I can incorporate to make it easier to understand?

    Yes, the spawning pool needs to be fixed + The Elite Combat Form, it is a bit bulky. I'll relay it to BB.

    We are trying to make it like Halo Wars but that doesn't mean we can't add new features or involve other's ideas!

    -NEW-

    Some new features implemented in the upcoming update:

    -Race Picking Menu & Game Modes
    (When the Match starts player Red or if Red is not present, Blue. May
    choose from any 3 Game Modes; Free for all FFA/ Teams 2v2/ or Alliance
    [YOu pick your ally in-game by typing -ally (player).

    -Major Balancing (A lot of units and structures have been re-balanced.

    -Leader Balancing (Leader abilities, I'm talking about the Arbiter/Brute Chieftain/Prophet, have had their abilities and stats nerfed but their health increased. They now act like Halo Wars Leaders. They don't have OP damage but they last a while and once completely leveled up, can be quite a thorn in your opponents side.
     
  19. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

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    I think the perfect tooltip is structured like this:

    *Short unit role description. Do NOT write the background story for the unit, people can look that up on the internet. This is just to give a quick idea of what the unit does, for the ghost this might be: "Role: Fast reconnaisance unit. Can capture supplies.". You should also state wether the unit has any abilities.

    *After this, make a short list of pros and cons of the unit, and make sure to give this text some color to make it stand out:
    "Strong vs: Infantry

    Weak vs: Heavy Armor, Air"

    And that should be all. The tooltips are just to get a quick idea of the unit, and should never be more than a few lines long.

    Some other notes:

    *I agree that you have sometimes gone overboard on the scaling of units. Try to make the difference in scale a little bit smaller. The wraith is one of the units which are just too big right now.

    *I think you should ditch the melee warthog. I mean, this works in Halo Wars because they have a really cool mechanic to support it. In warcraft though, it just looks terrible. You can always add the ram ability as an ability, and see if you can't implement Paladon's GUI knockback system to add a sweet knockback effect to the affected unit (you can search the spells database for something that might fit).

    *When you change the tooltips, make sure that units actually DO deal different damage to different enemies. You can check out the damage table in the game constants (it is in the advanced menu i think), and try to tinker with it. Then you give different units different armor and damage types to counter eachother. I don't know wether you have already done this, but i am guessing you haven't.
     
  20. SuperbAvalon

    SuperbAvalon

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    Thank you, Fingolfin! I'll shorten it up. I did look up the damage tables and started making units counter each other. I'll finish it up today.