Halloween Horrors GOLD V2.6 FIXED

[Moderator]

19:06, 19th Dec 2008
Rui: "Halloween Horrors" was originally designed by Pheonix-IV (I had the honor to play it with him personally). The map is not bad, but there is plenty of room for improvement.

Check my full review [self=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource.php?t=81363&page=2#post946763]here[/self]. With a rating of approximately 3 (Useful), this map is Approved.

 

[Malvodion]

i can help you? i have a lot of ideas for this map.

 

[Kildare]

Lol? Well...i'm ok with suggestions, but i have to tell you i won't be accepting anymore ideas for new horrors, as 12 horrors is way too much already. lol

If it's something else, then suggest away!

 

[Jessica Smith]

oh put PRYAMID HEAD in it off of silent hill google the pics of him ill help.

 

[Kildare]

Uhh...if that's a monster then no thx. As i just said, 12 is way too many monsters as it is.

 

[undeddy]

Hellow. What are your favourite strateges in this map when playing humans?

 

[Kildare]

Hallow. Strategies? Lol...playing styles depend on what kind of horror your enemies take.

 

[undeddy]

I've played a number of games (for humans). My opponent has always chosen Pumpkin (I don't remember its real name, but it's a horror with a pumpkin instead of its head). I should say that it's very difficult to resist him due tp his ability of makinh a human... Besides he is very quick.
I suppose that it's necessary to build up your base from all the holes, otherwise you just won't notice him, when he'll come to kill your farmer.
To my mind, Archangel is a very might hero against any Horror, but it takes some time to be able to train it.

So, what are your advice?

P.S. The map is really funny and interesting.

 

[Kildare]

Lol....to be honest, the Pumpkin King is only useful for newbies and average human players. More experienced players will shoot it on sight as it is very easy to identify a fake farmhand, due to its colour and hitpoints. The main point here is that you, as a human player, should NEVER take your eyes off your Farmer.

 

[undeddy]

Thx.
Is it reasonable to create several bases or you should try to create and fortify one base?

 

[Kildare]

Of coz it's better to fortify one base. You only resort to several bases if ur first base is compromised. Besides, you don't have the luxury of time to spread out your base.

 

[cortezz]

This is one of my favorite maps to play, I only have few slight problems. Building walls and tower are useless there not very strong compared just buying one angel and easily killing the horrors without building one tower or other unit. SO usually a game comes down to getting the angel as quick as you can and than you win pretty much.

 

[Kildare]

Actually, that's one of the most common misconceptions i've ever encountered in the game. You've obviously had not encountered any skilled and experienced Horror players. Getting an archangel DOES NOT guarantee that you can win. In fact, any level 6-10 horror, with proper teamwork/skill, can defeat a level 3-5 archangel. And you forget that Archangels are only a liability against a Horror like the Death Reaper. Even if you CAN'T get rid of enemy archangels, with proper tactics, you can actually lure and hunt down their Farmers, as it is during this time that they take their eyes off them, leaving them extra vulnerable. I've seen games where the Horrors were fighting against 5 or so farmers with Level 10 archangels, and STILL WIN.

Also, have you actually max upgraded the walls and building hitpoint upgrade at the Mill? They're actually quite tough already. The reason why i don't want it any tougher is because i want to avoid human players from camping. The main point for this game is not to hide forever, but rather to survive long enough to COUNTER-ATTACK.

 

[Biasoli]

Are you working on a new version?

 

[Kildare]

Not at the moment. Sorry. If there's a new version it'll probably just be bug and imbalance fixes. However you're welcome to give me new ideas.

 

[Mokoshotar]

Archangels are only a liability against a Horror like the Death Reaper.

'Nuff said. lol

Also, have you actually max upgraded the walls and building hitpoint upgrade at the Mill? They're actually quite tough already. The reason why i don't want it any tougher is because i want to avoid human players from camping. The main point for this game is not to hide forever, but rather to survive long enough to COUNTER-ATTACK.

Ya, in older versions, I found it really, really hard to get into a Humans base late game, especially when they've all based close together and can immediately help eachother out.

 

[Kildare]

Lol. well, this map was initially modded from Pheonix-IV's Harvest Horrors(with his permission of coz). And since he abandoned that project, i kinda took over and made it into my own map. The reason why it's "Halloween" Horrors now is because there was a time i submitted it for the Halloween Map contest.

You could say that this map is 90% my work and 10% Pheonix's(or maybe 5%).

 

[Paladia]

I've played this map quite some times and the same thing always happens. Human gets arch angel and the game is over as it is so strong. I've never actually seen the humans lose.

Sure, the horrors may be newbies, but so were the humans. Why not balance or the design the game so it works well in the majority of the games instead of balancing it just for the one rare game where there is actually some pro horror?

Another thing is that gold is too easy to come by, with 24 farms going you'll have pretty much unlimited lumber and since you can buy gold for a measly 500 lumber, you also have unlimited gold.

 

[Kildare]

I've played this map quite some times and the same thing always happens. Human gets arch angel and the game is over as it is so strong. I've never actually seen the humans lose.

Sure, the horrors may be newbies, but so were the humans. Why not balance or the design the game so it works well in the majority of the games instead of balancing it just for the one rare game where there is actually some pro horror?

Haha i knew someone would eventually say that. You know...in my case, the OPPOSITE happens. The farmers feed so badly that even an archangel can't kill the evils, unless that archangel is above lvl 6(and even then it is still possible to kill it). If you could only play one game with me as an evil, you'll realize what i mean. lol I've told to this to someone before, out of every 20 or so times i play, there's only 1 or 2 times that i get defeated. And even then, the most probable reasons are due to a serious mistake on my part, or the inefficiency/lack of teamwork on my partner's part. It is very rare for me to lose if i have a good teammate with me.

Anyway, i'm trying my best to balance the game out so that at the eventuality that there's a balance of pros between both sides, the game would be in a "stalemate" or at least moderately difficult for both teams to win. This is why i really need good feedback.

Another thing is that gold is too easy to come by, with 24 farms going you'll have pretty much unlimited lumber and since you can buy gold for a measly 500 lumber, you also have unlimited gold.

In fact, in the version before this, i've made it triple the difficulty in getting resource upgrades for the Farmers. But then it was too overbalanced that even I found difficulty in playing it. Hence this version was "retoned" down a little. As for the 24 farms thing, it's not so much that the game is imbalanced but more so that the nightmare players are totally bumbling fools? One of the main keys to winning the game is to make sure you cut off the Human players' resource capabilities. Another key is that you do it FAST before they manage to get up strong enough defenses to counter you. Most of the time, Nightmare players tend to waste their time hitting worthless buildings that do not give gold upon destroying, and worse, do not give you any form of exp at all. The important thing is to bypass things such as farms and walls and go for the defense towers or farmhands. Mills are also an important target, as it stops their research capabilities.

However, i think you may be correct about one thing(though few farmer players, at least in my games, actually make use of it) though. Perhaps i should make banks sell off 1 gold for 1k lumber and 500 lumber for 1 gold? I think i'll give it a try.

 

[Paladia]

I appreciate your response and I do not doubt that I would lose against the map designer nor do I doubt that I've played against newbie Horrors.

However, most of the time if you host a map on battlenet, it will be against players who have never played the map, or at least has done so rarely. So a common scenario will be that both the farmers and the horrors are newbies, which is how it has turned out every time I've played. In those games, which seems to be in majority based on my experience, the horrors will have little chance. Yet since one side always wins, it becomes less fun to play the map, so the newbies do rarely become pros.

I am not suggesting you make the horrors stronger per se, but instead make them easier to play for newbie horrors. For example giving them tips throughout the game on what they should do or recommending a newbie-friendly horror in the start. It will not affect the pro players, but it will help the newbies. If the game is balanced at a pro vs pro level that is great but I think it is equally important, if not more important, to also balance it at a newbie vs newbie level.

 

[Kildare]

Err...there ARE hints and tips shown throughout the game lol. It's just that people rarely notice them because they're too busy playing(and plus the fact that they don't really have the leisure of reading them, or they are "unable" to follow them). Also, i've put a basic "strategy" for ALL the horrors in the Quest menu anyway. Have you read them?

Anyway, in this version i've JUST updated, one of the changes that i've made is that i've placed a restriction to the number of farmhands you can have at any time(maximum 20). That should cut down the maximum production capabilities a little.

However, no matter what i try to change or balance in this game, i don't think it would make any difference if the player itself is a total imbecile. A player maybe a newbie, but if he is "smart" player, it wouldn't take him too long to figure out how to handle the simple controls for the Horrors. Seriously, the Horrors' abilities aren't even complicated(except maybe the Pumpkin King?). If people can handle heroes from DotA or any AoS/Hero-based game, they're sure to be able to handle these. Only total idiots who are unable to follow instructions or think for themselves can screw up in playing the Horrors. So, nothing i do will matter unless the player himself seriously wants to learn to play it right. All i can do is just try to make it as balanced as possible.


Anyhow, i am still thinking up ways to balance out the gameplay and make it easier for both sides to play. Expect more changes in the future. (As of now i'm contemplating whether or not to only allow the training of Archangels once you've researched the LAST and yet to be added Age called the "Divine Age")

 

[Tanasren]

When i played this (v2.0) i always won...
In evil side, it was very easy even against 2 or 3 archangels (and i was alone), just play smart...
In human side, it was much more difficult but when you get your archangel, all the time evils sucked, so i got lvl 6 and bought all their items and i killed them.
One time, my base was rapped by two horrors but i had mass ressources, so i ran away during 10 min, one horror left and the most powerful stayed.
So i built ressources buildings and a wall near the teleport thing (to secret shop) and i waited until enough gold and when he came i ran away etc... finally with this strategy my archangel was very strong and i could kill him. He said i was a cheater blablabla
This game is not complex at all, but i never find "good" players.

 

[Kildare]

Haha it's always the case for me as well. Usually when a side wins by an overwhelming margin it is usually caused by the presence of newbies/noobs on the opposing team.

The main factor that is usually the reason why the Nightmares win the game:
- The Farmers overfeed you both in terms of gold and exp. Pro Farmers will usually kill off their buildings/units so that you won't be able farm off them. Noob Farmers will just let you eat them while they make a run for it. lol

The main factor that is usually the reason why the Farmers win the game:
- The opposite of the above reason. The Nightmares tend to waste their time chasing Farmers instead of farming off their normal units and towers for exp and gold. They usually die before they even reach level 5.

 

[MrBimbo]

Kildare! I got some ideas!!

Okie for one thing, theres like NO WAY to win besides getting lucky and owning them with sniper towers OR getting an Archangel. I tried using mines the other day.... i think I stacked about 3000+ dmg and the MONSTER DID NOT DIE! D= Only half of its hp was gone, and he had like a total of 1200 WTF?!? Massive armor ftl. Lol, so I guess one thing to point out is to balance your game more in terms of ways of winning. The towers are pretty set because you can mass them and have a whole lot of it. Archangels are a little bit over powered, and also the Units in the barraks SUCK D=. You need to make them stronger!! If you've ever played Werewolf Advanced v1.4d, they have units that can own the wolf with some skills. ALSO he can die from explosions! >=(. Okie i'll stop ranting. I love your game btw <3. Me and my friends play it every night!

 

[Kildare]

Actually, it depends on who u're fighting against. Certain attacks/strategies won't work against certain monsters. For instance, Frankenstein requires high damage units(like Archangel/Wizard/etc) to kill them effectively(when he is 5 levels or above). Creatures like Werewolf/Witch lose badly to massed units(even if they are low level), though they are difficult to handle at the start of the game. In fact, if i'm not mistaken, the Horror you fought against is probably a high level frankenstein with maxed out Hardened Skin.

Also, units in the Barracks WITHOUT upgrades are pretty useless. They require research in order to be strong against enemies. It's best if you focus on a certain type of unit instead of getting multiple types(for instance, massed archers behind fortified walls with marksmanship upgrades) or a wall of swordsmen to block an entrance you make your escape or fortify defenses. Sometimes, a combo works too(hint: White Wizard's ulti combined with a trap skill such as Ensnare can be really effective).

Btw, if you noticed my loading screen comment, i did mention that the Farmers are NERFED because some "professionals"(WcIIICampaigns, ahem) said that they were simply overpowered when Noobs are against Noobs despite my protests. So blame them if you think they're underpowered.

 

[Rui]

√ Hive Workshop requirements √ Imported Material √ Spelling & Grammar √ Bug-free +/- Terrain +/- Re-playing worth +/- Fun Factor/Gameplay +/- Originality +/- Balance +/- Packaging +/- Object Editor work quality +/- Machine/Net-friendly +/- Music

"Halloween Horrors" is a Survival map originally designed by Pheonix-IV and (apparently) continued by Kildare. It is similar to Tropical Tag -- you have to gather resources in the beginning and then train forces to stop the hunters. The map is bug-free, and is decently written in English. The map looks good at first sight. The terrain wasn't too bad... but it wasn't too good either. I guess we start from there. The custom Northrend trees were a good addition, as were the other models (that we can see from the minimap picture), by the way. However, them alone do not make up the terrain. The structure is OK, but you lack elevation and ground texture variation. Now, for the gameplay. It was original, to a certain point. I didn't like the space age idea. First because it doesn't fit with the initial theme, and second because the previous age is already a tough challenge for the Undead. With only 4 towers of that age, I succeeded in putting one of the hunters to about 2/5 of his HP, without even targeting or putting them to offensive stance. For this reason, my doubts also fall on the balance.

I also found the gameplay boring. It contains nothing innovative from the traditional Vampirism map -- it's just search and kill.
About the economy system... gold is way easy to acquire, and so is lumber. When the lumber harvesting improvement is fully researched, the peasant acquires 9 lumber with only a single hit! The problem is that when it is 1, it is kinda low, but 9 is way too high, specially when you place a Farm near the peasant and he just harvests and returns without moving. My suggestion is that you change to 2 hits required and for the peasant to initially acquire 2 pieces of lumber, increasing by 1 each lumber harvesting upgrade.
One of my testers seems to have been loosing FPS over time. I don't know much about this, but he said the cause might have been the presence of memory leaks. In the Hive you'll find tutorials on how to fix leaks, so if you don't know about them, read the tutorials and do a complete check on your triggers.
Finally, the music. It created a game ambient, and that was beneficial. Unfortunately, it quickly becomes boring, and the battle music plays a lot. I can't imagine the battle music ever ceasing in a full house game (in my game we were 4 villagers versus 1 Undead hunter).
One last tip for the description: it is kinda confusing. I suggest you revise it.

My rating for this resource is 5/10, approximately 3 (Useful). Approved.

 

[Tanasren]

The horror sucked, that's all xD
And i agree, the gold is too easy to acquire.

 

[Kildare]

LOl....thx for the comment though i've already more or less stopped editing maps already(plus this is a REALLY old project anyway, though i did update it frequently).

At any rate, i'm willing to 100% bet you that the regular Farmer players will scream their heads off if i make the Farmers harder to play as it is.

 

[Kildare]

Version update for compatibility with 1.24 onwards/

 

[Kildare]

Sorry the previous version didn't fix the bug for all PCs. I found out what the problem was. It should fix it this time.

 

[Kildare]

Sorry guys i really have NO IDEA how to fix this bug(it's happening to a majority of my maps, though it doesn't affect some). The WEIRD thing is, SOME ppl can play the maps, while others can't! zZzZzZzZz

 

[Luffy_299]

Hi.I like this map i like the terrain but i dont like that the bases have really many enterances.Too bad on europe we havent halloween.But on Christmas carols ive gathered 1k euros.Cool?