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[Gyrosphinx]

I've been thinking...

I think I have a pretty nice story idea... if you want to hear it of course.

Story... not much, but I'm actually quite happy with how it turned out.

For centuries, peace rested over Termina, centuries living in abundance and joy.

Until that fateful day. A darkness shadowed over Termina, an army of spirits long thought dead poured out of the Ikana Valley, spreading death and destruction wherever they went. All in the name of the Spiritweaver [name concept for big villain]. All Termina was swallowed in darkness.

But all hope is not lost. In the darkest hour, a Hero arises, not much more than a boy, but some say a true decendant from the Hero of Time [I do not think they call Link that in Termina, but anyway...].

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Had to split up my post.

I have another suggestion... Lets say our Hero starts with the Razor Sword, meaning that he has limited uses early in the game, it will make it harder, and we can add one of the long TLoZ trading sequences to obtain a better sword. There are no Kokiri or Master Swords on Termina, but we have the Razor Sword and its upgrade, the Gilded Sword, and we can add more of course. In my opinion, the Razor Sword's unique appearance will add more flavour to the game, and we can make a distinct 'Terminan' art style out of the concept. So what'cha thinkin?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well the razor sword looks cool, but if your insinuating that he should only be able to use his sword so many times before he needs to get it repaired or it's useless that's not exactly a good idea lol.

 

[Gyrosphinx]

No, it ain't, I know

But say he have gotten his hand on a Razor Sword perfected, it doesen't dull, forged by the ancestors of Zubora and Gabora.

EDIT: BTW, a decent razor sword skin would have been great, I have a Low-Poly mesh lying around, and It would be nice to see how it wraps.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well if it's just about the sword selection then that sounds fine lol
Anything in the name of eye candy I suppose

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Decided then, I s'pose.

Btw, what do you think of the story?

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

I actually like the idea of getting a sword which has only limited uses.
But we can't make it useless after breaking. Then link would have no weapon -.-
It should be like the longsword in OoT.. after breaking only dealing limited damage.

I like your story but I already had one :/ We have to decide which to use.

Lol I post my one as a txt as it is too long for 1 post...

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=63gu9x

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

K sword attack.

I've found the idea way to do this (and other basic actions with weapons equipped) is to map them to the Escape key instead of a spell which could fail on you or interfere with something. Either way, spell or escape key, the whole hold down the key for a charge spin attack isn't possible (the only keys that would be possible on are the arrow keys - well, with gui at least).

SOOOOO, how are we going to map it?

We could go with like a combo attack thing - 1,2, spin - but that would make the spin attack overused and the HAAAAAAA sound would become a pain after a while.

We could go with like a charge thing - like hit the escape key once and then hit it a few times consecutively while charging up to use a spin attack.

We could go with like a escape key spell combination - like hit escape key then hit a spell to unleash spin attack too.

Which of these sounds preferable?


Also you guys work out which story you want to go with, being the writers and all.

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Can't you just take a dummy ability based on e.g. warstomp with 3 sec casting time.
Then you give it a hotkey and detect the casting (for animation) and the actual ability start for spinning :/?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Can't you just take a dummy ability based on e.g. warstomp with 3 sec casting time.
Then you give it a hotkey and detect the casting (for animation) and the actual ability start for spinning :/?

I could, but it wouldn't seem intensely authentic.
In the actual Tloz your sword follows a well working flow when playing of pushing the button and then letting go - sword commands are mostly allocated to this one key that makes for easy play - push, let go, push, let go, push, hold, let go. Adding in another key to use this may interrupt the flow.

I could try putting in a few methods and seeing which one you guys like the most (including that) though.

 

[Yabooer]

We should add the basic combo's the the attack key. And have the Whirlwind that costs magic by hitting ESC, I think we should also have the whirlwind upgraded like in OOT, MM, where when you get enough magic, holding it longer will produce a bigger AoE and more damage.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

We should add the basic combo's the the attack key. And have the Whirlwind that costs magic by hitting ESC, I think we should also have the whirlwind upgraded like in OOT, MM, where when you get enough magic, holding it longer will produce a bigger AoE and more damage.

I'm mapping the normal attack to the Escape key - since it doesn't rely on spells, it will be the most reliable.
Now the problem is how to approach the whirlwind attack.
-No standard attacks should cost mana, the player should be free to unleash when the need be. Mana should be reserved for more complicated things (like the larger AoE whirlwind or (forgot what game it was from) where charging up the whirlwind longer allowed you to hold it would longer (Windwaker perhaps?).

The problem is that there is no way to tell how long the Escape key has been held down, so we need to find another method of using it.

What about hitting the Escape in rapid succession, much more then normal attacks for the whirlwind?

 

[Yabooer]

All of the games allowed you to hold the B button to charge up the whirlwind. If you didn't have the magic upgrade, it wouldn't charge up fully.

Once you got the magic upgrade it would fully charge up.

I was also seeing for the attack, twitch styled fighting. Such as hitting "A" which normally would be a command to move to the area and attack, it would swing where told to.

Perfect example of what I mean is in this map.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/jedi-arena-v2-0f-93567/?prev=search=jedi&d=list&r=20

We could have blocking in it as well making everything a helluva lot easier.

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Offtopic:

There is this post from ToM in Wc3 unlimited.
Does that mean you quit modding and stop being a part of this project?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

There is this post from ToM in Wc3 unlimited.
Does that mean you quit modding and stop being a part of this project?

Who?

Anyways going to Mexico for a week for vacation (leaving friday - may or may not have connection to the internet).

Trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone I entered the Hordestudio hack and slash contest, being a third person hack and slash a lot of the systems can be used for this project too (things like camera and that sort of thing). It's coded a bit lazily atm but it's working - though I know there are leaks in the code in a few places, just nothing game ruining atm.

http://hordestudio.com/forums/3659-post73.html

This is the last wip I posted of it, I've improved it more since then but I haven't posted a new wip yet other then a few screen shots of a level which can be found here:

http://hordestudio.com/forums/3847-post112.html

Things separate from that game that need I need to make:
(in next post)

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

-Bombs - they have parabolic movement, I started on them but I need to find a way to compensate for the current Z height of the ground since the parabola we're looking for is a negative curve, and as you know a unit can not have a negative flying height.
-Hookshot - this shouldn't be that hard - just send a dummy projectile like the arrows, if it hits a compatible wall space (it would be imba if you could use it anywhere though that is possible) it will shoot you in the same angle and everything of the dummy.
Lock on - a lock on system can definitely be helpful, and it should be all that difficult to go either.
-Strafe motion: You guys think we should add strafe motion to the movement? Like lock the camera facing a certain way and move relative to that direction (this is entirely possible).
(continued in next post)

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

-Etc. Items: I already have a boomerang system trigger that allows you to set the path, making a lock on boomerang should be easy too. Any other items you guys think of for this.

Should we inclue:
-Bombchus
-Hammer
-Bomb Arrows
-Whip (I can see the mouse making up for a lack of a stylus here
-Quick Arrow shooting - in aim mode we could allow the player to click targets to shoot them (with a cooldown of course) - this could make using arrows in multiple enemy situations much easier, but it also may be imba

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Hmm I am not sure about the whip...

I'd say we stay with the classical items:

Boomerang
Bombs
Hammer
Hookshot
Bow -> Different arrows (no bomb I'd say)
Boots (iron or whatever)
Maybe the three godess items (not sure about their names in english)
(faroress thunderstorm?, nayrus protection and dins inferno)
Some kind of instrument... doesn't have to be an ocarina again.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well I'd like to add a few new items, with most games they add in a few new items that weren't in any of the other series - these new items bring some interest to the game, though they are normally self explanatory it's interesting how they find ways to use them that you haven't seen in previous Tloz games.

So stick with classics, but I definitely think we should add in a few of our own - it's still our game, not a recreation.

Boots (iron or whatever)

Ehhh... these were mostly used in water puzzles (or the crazy magnet physics things from Twilight Princess - things I don't we can replicate well in wc3. Also the pegasus boots only really work all that well in the top down 2d view and more limited movement of the GBA/Super Nintendo games.

continued in next post

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Maybe the three godess items

I found that those godess item's were cool and all, but in my play through of OOT I never really used them unless I made it a point to use them, otherwise I'd use my sword to slay enemies and save my magic for things that required it to be used (like using flame arrows). In English were Din's Fire, Nayru's Love and Faror's Wind (hmm the name be slightly different here on this one).

Thoughts on the instrument
Well for the instrument we need to think what will work well in the interface we have now. Hmmmm we could go with a lute sort of thing and click the strings to pluck them

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Hmm I believe we could make a nice play system with the arrow keys.
So like in OoT you press the ocarina button and get into the playing screen. Then you can play 4 notes with the arrow keys.

And I think we could take something new. Like a trumpet.

The trumpet of the Storm

 

[Yabooer]

Or the Ocarina of Time =)

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Or the Ocarina of Time =)

Nah, that's just what everyone's come to expect - and I think everyone's good for a while when it comes to manipulating time in Tloz games.

Well the instruments from most games are Folk Instruments, so want to go with something like that?

 

[Yabooer]

We could do the whole Majora's mask theme if you'd prefer, involves the Ocarina, the Deku Pipes, Goron drums, Zora Guitar. Or you could do another route with the other game where you picked up the weeds and blew on it (Hated that system, old music system was better)

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Ocarina, the Deku Pipes, Goron drums, Zora Guitar

-Nah that still involves screwing with time and then also involves throwing in multiple forms - also that would probably feel like your just returning to a "been there done that" sort of thing.
-The whole reed thing in Twilight Princess wasn't really a music system - you just need a convenient system to call Epona until you got the necklace/could teleport where you wanted to go. That game wasn't heavily based on any music and the closest element to the ocarina was the wolf howling.

-Also I'd like to use a new instrument in it - possibly one that could take advantage of the wc3 interface more so - we could just do the ocarina, but then again everyone's already blown that thing so many times something new would be interesting (sort of like the Pan Flute in Spirit Tracks - in all seriousness it probably wasn't the best way to go, but it was an interesting change even if it relied on the sometimes faulty ds microphone).

 

[Yabooer]

Not talking about forms, talking about instruments you could add. Such as a guitar, etc...

Though you can do other instruments, seeing how most instruments have been covered, though we can't do something silly like the "Trumpet of Storms" or something like that.

Though possibly instead of all this bickering of which is to be used. Add a part where as you slowly progress through the quests etc... Your decisions will eventually lead you into an instrument.

This would allow you to add in the instruments you'd want to add, while allowing players to be able to choose an Ocarina as their final instrument for nostalgic purposes. =) As you can tell I'm really pushing for the Ocarina.

But if you really just DON'T want it in period, then what I posted above still won't be changed. Do the same thing as said above just remove the Ocarina.

Possibly give a special stat to instrument depending on your choice, the "Lute" gives you a bonus to agility or something to that extent.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I want to go for an experiance really true to the TLoZ games - thus things like Agility won't be necessary (hero stats and the such shouldn't be something that we bother with - though things like "increased move speed, increased armor (just make it simple - things like halving damage on stuff like thus - no one wants to deal with +x armor, which causes you to take x% damage from attacks), increased damage (same with armor, simple)" etc. etc.).

Multiple instruments sounds cool - though of course we'll have to trigger more instruments now hehe (not that big of a deal - get on and it should be easy to make the others). Maybe give each a unique song only they can learn, though the other songs are the same (the unique songs could be something useful for dungeons, like healing you or something). And I have no problems with putting in the Ocarina - some people would probably be pissed without it.

 

[Yabooer]

<--- Would be upset, but I wasn't really thinking of stats as well. I just was thinking of something to diversify the instruments from each other. Perhaps special side missions that are of course a secret, will only be able to be accomplished if you have the right instrument and special song for that song.

Possibly allow all instruments to be obtainable and let them be combined into the Ocarina or one single instrument that will allow you to (Once all the secret missions are done) let you go into a different part of the map (Can be creative or just a scripted Ganon fight) and unlock the Triforce's power or something like that.

 

[Gyrosphinx]

...The Vuvuzela of Might...

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

I really like the idea of multiple instruments which can only learn one song and in the end combine to one.
Maybe we can add an item system where you can only carry like 2 instruments at a time.
That would make the whole combine thing important.

I remember LoZ - Links awakening DX AND majors mask in which you can get secret armors in the end. Maybe we could take that into consideration.

"The Vuvuzela of Might" maybe as a joke item for some quest. Some hardcore soccer (or football how is it called) fan misses his vuvuzela and gives you another instrument in change.

 

[Yabooer]

Mean the side masks? Where you ultimately got the Deity mask?

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Well yeah. In Majors mask you become the white link with the special mask in Links Awakening you can get the red or the blue armor increasing damage or defense.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Yes I am still watching this project and hopefully planning on finishing it

Just noticed this guy has been on a Zelda icon streak as of late:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/jaret/#userresources